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[Wiseblade]

Oi.

I'm not basing this on nothing buddyboy.

Look, how often does Bleach have backgrounds? 0.1% of the time, nowadays.

however within that 0.1% of backgrounds Bleach does have, Kubo has drawn trees, rocks, desert-ish areas, buildings of various sizes and types.

He's used vanishing lines, geometric and organic structures.

all of this is present in Bleach! All of it.

Just in the same way he has drawn a lot of unique people. Some incredibly gorgeous, others very manly or weird. You could argue most of his female characters look the same, but hey, he's a manga artist, they do that.

There's two or three things you could argue:

1.Kubo is slow at drawing backgrounds or finds them difficult, so avoids them

2. Kubo's desire to be inventive in terms of designs and scenery are extremely shallow, so he tends to just draw the same stuff most of the time

3.Kubo can draw different people, but clearly prefers taking the easy route and making most important characters very similar in terms of design either for personal preference, or cause he finds "weird" designs hard to do.


But you cannot, and I repeat, cannot say, Kubo is incapable of producing good quality backgrounds in terms of artistic talent.

Here's why: Consistently, when Kubo does draw something he barely draws, say, a tree, he succeeds at it.

He clearly shows us, the reader, that he's fully capable of drawing stuff he tends to avoid. This means that he's proven several skills through the course of his manga that he barely applies.

The easier solution as to why is clear: it's not that he can't. It's that he won't.

Just going back to chapter 10 or 11 of Bleach should remind you of the time Kubo did draw backgrounds and stuff. I think he's an idiot for no longer doing it, but I don't understand how you're capable of saying "he can't".

note: I'm seperating sheer artistic capability and originality into two different boxes here btw. You heavily focus on Kubo's artistic merrits, not his originality, so that's what I decided to focus on.

Yeah, he definitely has the capability, but chooses not to. What bothers me are the people who call it an "artistic decision" rather than just laziness. There's nothing artistic about deciding that everyone can fly so you don't have to draw the ground anymore.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'm not basing this on nothing buddyboy.

Look, how often does Bleach have backgrounds? 0.1% of the time, nowadays.

however within that 0.1% of backgrounds Bleach does have, Kubo has drawn trees, rocks, desert-ish areas, buildings of various sizes and types.

He's used vanishing lines, geometric and organic structures.

all of this is present in Bleach! All of it..
Just in the same way he has drawn a lot of unique people. Some incredibly gorgeous, others very manly or weird. You could argue most of his female characters look the same, but hey, he's a manga artist, they do that.

There's two or three things you could argue:

1.Kubo is slow at drawing backgrounds or finds them difficult, so avoids them

2. Kubo's desire to be inventive in terms of designs and scenery are extremely shallow, so he tends to just draw the same stuff most of the time

3.Kubo can draw different people, but clearly prefers taking the easy route and making most important characters very similar in terms of design either for personal preference, or cause he finds "weird" designs hard to do.


But you cannot, and I repeat, cannot say, Kubo is incapable of producing good quality backgrounds in terms of artistic talent.

Here's why: Consistently, when Kubo does draw something he barely draws, say, a tree, he succeeds at it.

He clearly shows us, the reader, that he's fully capable of drawing stuff he tends to avoid. This means that he's proven several skills through the course of his manga that he barely applies.

The easier solution as to why is clear: it's not that he can't. It's that he won't.

Just going back to chapter 10 or 11 of Bleach should remind you of the time Kubo did draw backgrounds and stuff. I think he's an idiot for no longer doing it, but I don't understand how you're capable of saying "he can't".

note: I'm seperating sheer artistic capability and originality into two different boxes here btw. You heavily focus on Kubo's artistic merrits, not his originality, so that's what I decided to focus on.

Saying Kubo drawing a few trees or few buildings when he feel like it means he can draw backgrounds but to lazy is a load of crap .
When talking about backgrounds take Oda and Kishimoto work they have done stuff like huge forests , oceans , animals and loads of stuff you never seen in Bleach .
Backgrounds also have do with the action in the background which is something Kubo never did beside buildings and empty space so until i see him do something on that scale of Oda and Kishimoto.
I am going to say he cannot draw backgrounds , he has no artistic talent for doing background action or capability and him drawing a few trees and buildings not going to change.

 

[ColossalLazy]

Beelzebub

I hope this doesnt turn in a battle. I hope Furuichi loses the money in a hilarious way.

Gamaran

This new enemy is already more creepy and ugly than Muraku.

Akame ga Kill 25

Esdese and Tatsumi are meant to each other lol.

Karate Minoru

It seems that wasnt a total loss to Bertrande. I wonder who will fight Mutou.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Saying Kubo drawing a few trees or few buildings when he feel like it means he can draw backgrounds but to lazy is a load of crap .
When talking about backgrounds take Oda and Kishimoto work they have done stuff like huge forests , oceans , animals and loads of stuff you never seen in Bleach .
Backgrounds also have do with the action in the background which is something Kubo never did beside buildings and empty space .

Look, I do art myself and talk to a lot of people who do.

I know what people who can't draw backgrounds are like, y'know how often they draw backgrounds? Almost never

Do you know how often they draw proper looking backgrounds? never ever ever.

Kubo has drawn backgrounds in the past, even during action scenes. I've checked, they're there.

He has the artistic capacity to do so. If he didn't he would have failed miserably the few times he did try.

That's how being capable of art works, if you can do it once or in small amounts, you should essentially be able to do it in larger degrees as well!


Now I think Kubo is an inspirational bog pit (get it, cause a bog is black, like half of bleach) who'd probably only make an interesting background or location with a gun against his head.

But if someone put that gun against his head, he's shown enough skill for it to be clear that he could.


I don't see how the difference between artistic skill and design skill are so hard to seperate.







note: Just for clarity. I have strong doubts Kubo could just make an amazing and vivid feeling background if you put him in an empty room and said: "Hey kubo, draw 20 unique backgrounds."

He'd probably draw a wasteland, an empty city, several slightly different empty cities, maybe a dull ocean view. whatever.

You're right on him never ever being "capable" of doing something amazing, background-wise.

however

If you showed him an amazing scene or backdrop from One Piece or Naruto and told him: Draw this background in your own style, do you honestly think he couldn't do that?

Kubo knows how to draw trees, he knows how to draw texture, he knows how to handle perspective, angles, depth, shadows, contrast, organic and geometric structures.

He can put these skills together to make a solid and coherent background, it's as basic as 1 + 1 =2.

Why he doesn't is about artistic skill, it's about Kubo's creativity and originality.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Look, I do art myself and talk to a lot of people who do.
I know what people who can't draw backgrounds are like, y'know how often they draw backgrounds? Almost never
Do you know how often they draw proper looking backgrounds never ever ever.
Kubo has drawn backgrounds in the past, even during action scenes. I've checked, they're there.
He has the artistic capacity to do so. If he didn't he would have failed miserably the few times he did try.
That's how being capable of art works, if you can do it once or in small amounts, you should essentially be able to do it in larger degrees as well!
Now I think Kubo is an inspirational bog pit (get it, cause a bog is black, like half of bleach) who'd probably only make an interesting background or location with a gun against his head.
But if someone put that gun against his head, he's shown enough skill for it to be clear that he could.
I don't see how the difference between artistic skill and design skill are so hard to seperate.

Backgrounds are more than just drawing few trees or few buildings .
The line that i bold from your post what you said is false i have friends that can draw and also talk to people .
Just because you can do something on small scale don't mean you can do on a bigger scale , also just because you can do 1 type of background don't mean you can do others to that level.

EDIT i just see you add more text .
Do i think Kubo can look at people work and draw those background in his own style i don't know it might depend on what it is .

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Do i think Kubo can look at people work and draw those background in his own style i don't know it might depend on what it is .

Can you name something he couldn't draw? I'm genuinly curious.

When you imply he's artistically incapable of it, you're claming there's
some sort of defiency in his art that'd prevent him from drawing certain backgrounds.

What essential skill to doing backgrounds, aside from sheer creativity itself
has Kubo never shown through his manga career?


He's pretty darn good at perspective, he's shown that much.

He draws pretty good plantlife, I checked.

There's shots of characters interacting with scenery in bleach, so that's not it.


I mean when you talk about Kubo "not being capable" It makes me wonder what, aside from creativity he's so damn bad at that he clearly cannot do it.




ALSO LOL @ Rukia getting essentially 1 hit KO-ed by a Hollow in chapter 1, I forgot how amazing Bleach's power levels are.

 

[Glass Rebel]

he can't draw air

or he can't not draw air

let me think about it


Beelzebub

Was decent I guess. There wasn't really any genuinely funny scene this week and it only got interesting when that demon or whatever it is showed up on the last page. meh.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Man, Chapter 2 of Bleach is killing me so many backgrounds what the hell Kubo.





edit: chapter 2, page 15: 5 trees in a single panel, take that you fools!


edit: chapter 8, page 14: Machinery and devices, that's one of the few things I couldn't remember seeing in Bleach, found some of that too.


Edit: This is actually a pretty fun manga with a lot of humour and backgrounds all over, I might be reading the wrong thing.

There's not two seperate manga called Bleach out there, right? Cause I'm pretty sure this is something different than whatever I'm reading every week.

 

[Defuser]

Ironically, FT rarely does panty shots, but it's virtually nothing but fanservice.

Mashima truely knows that Zettai Ryouiki is the best way to go.


edit:
Does Kubo have any assisants at all?

 

[Wiseblade]

Mashima truely knows that Zettai Ryouiki is the best way to go.


edit:
Does Kubo have any assisants at all?

Of course he does.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Mashima truely knows that Zettai Ryouiki is the best way to go.


edit:
Does Kubo have any assisants at all?

All of the big 3 have assistants but i think some have more than others.

@Neoriceisgood i going to give up since this going to go nowhere and my debate with kreed is enough for me .
To old to keep up with you young guys lol .

 

[Kusagari]

Doesn't Togashi have no assistants when he bothers to work?

 

[Neoriceisgood]

@Neoriceisgood i going to give up since this going to go nowhere and my debate with kreed is enough for me .
To old to keep up with you young guys lol .

Hahahah man, you always give up when we're debating!

 

[survivor]

Regarding JoJo, this was posted in the thread over on gaming. Could be a full (or as full as possible) adaptation. So fuckin hyped.

HYPE

Only shounen anime that will be good

 

[Wiseblade]

HYPE

Only shounen anime that will be good

I'll laugh if it follows the One Piece anime's dreadful pacing of one chapter an episode.

Spoiler

Actually, I'd cry my eyes out.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I'll laugh if it follows the One Piece anime's dreadful pacing of one chapter an episode.

Spoiler

Actually, I'd cry my eyes out.

I don't see that happening , i more worry about how many eps the series going to get .

 

[ColossalLazy]

I'll laugh if it follows the One Piece anime's dreadful pacing of one chapter an episode.

Spoiler

Actually, I'd cry my eyes out.

I dont think so, I am more worried about censorship.

 

[Glass Rebel]

HYPE

Only anime that will be good

I agree

 

[Wiseblade]

I dont think so, I am more worried about censorship.

It should be fine unless it airs on a sunday morning or something.

 

[scy]

I actually hope the best boobs argument happens again. I actually read those posts rather than just skipping the Big 3 arguments!

Spoiler

ohgodhowsad

Medaka Box 153 - adorable start of chapter and WHOAMG EXPLOSIONS PROPOSAL ZENKICHI SWAGGER.

Toriko 194 - Please actually start soon. I just want to get to gourmet world already. I expect long drawn out chapters for each of the fights though.

 

[7Th]

Doesn't Togashi have no assistants when he bothers to work?

I've read that his waifu is the one that helps him.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Fairy Tail's art is better than Kishi or Kubo.

Darn, I was going to say that so I could at least throw my own two cents into the discussion but you already did. Mashima has the best clothes AND character faces AND backgrounds, hes up there with Akira Amano.

 

[7Th]

Obata as seen in Blue Dragon and early Bakuman and late Eyeshield Murata were by far the two best artists in modern Jump. Shame Murata left Jump and Obata got lazy.

 

[Kreed]

One Piece:

All of those villain were still part of the 3 major superpowers in OP expect the Super Novas.
The Super Novas are just like most groups some will help luffy some will fight him so i don't see all of them as villains just yet .
How can you say BB had no connection to the overall story when he cause the war in the first place.

What are you not understanding about Emperors, Shichibukai, and Admirals? The CP9 and none of the villains I mentioned were part of those groups at the time they were introduced. If they aren't part of those groups or associated with those groups then it's not an issue. Blackbeard wasn't part of those groups when he was first introduced, so that's why I mentioned him. Him being a major part of the story and not part of those groups at the time was a GOOD THING. This is something that hasn't happened in a long time in One Piece and that's an issue IMO.

No Lucci was a bad ass cause he was part of a elite marine force and was the strongest in the history of CP9.
That arc also had more characters than PH .

And Lucci and all of those enemies were more interesting than what we've been given in Punk Hazard excluding Law and DoFlamingo. Because not only did Oda spend more time building them up as bad asses, but he didn't rely on end of chapter "this character is a underling/member of this super hyped up group" cliffhangers to get it done.

Your saying Oda made arcs that had nothing to do with 3 Main super power when in fact there has only been 1 major arc since they enter the grand line that had nothing to do with them
At this stage of the story it make no sense for Oda to have the first arc in the NW with no connection to 3 great powers of the OP world.
Now i am not saying we can't get a arc like Skypiea but i am saying it is to soon after the time skip , with the SH growing stronger they are going the are run into the power houses or people in connection to them more often .
The first half was the warlords and marines the second half going to be the Emperors and the top player of the marines along with others than connect to the over all storyline .
With maybe 2 or 3 big arcs and 1 or 2 smaller arcs that has nothing to do with them just like the first half of the grand line.

First, you're changing Admirals/Shichibukai/Emperors into the 3 Main Super Powers. I have no issues with Marine enemies vs the Admirals. Second, this isn't an issue with just the New World. This issue I'm talking about started with Thriller Bark. So that's 2 years + worth of arcs Oda could have thrown in a story with no connection to these three groups and that's why I have a problem with it.

Third you're missing the bigger issue, and that's villain build up. Even if Oda did just focus on these three groups, I would have less of a problem if he built more of the new villains within those groups up the way he built up characters like Crocodile, Lucci, and Enel or even Magellan. But he doesn't do that anymore with a lot of these characters because he can just associate them into these three groups and "instantly they are awesome".

 

[survivor]

Love my Life vol 1 End

This was pretty good. I found it to be a very mature and serious take on lesbian relationships. The progression of Ichiko's character was very natural and great plus the other side characters including her fake boyfriend were also interesting. The only thing lacking really is the art. It's very lifeless, empty, and boring. There is also a live action movie based on the manga, I wonder if it was good.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Obata as seen in Blue Dragon and early Bakuman and late Eyeshield Murata were by far the two best artists in modern Jump. Shame Murata left Jump and Obata got lazy.

This is very true. What is he up to nowadays?

 

[scy]

This is very true. What is he up to nowadays?

I think he's done quite a few oneshots since but nothing big

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Calling chicken scratch Oda an artist is an insult to all artists out there.

Drawing ugly characters is not original, it just shows that Oda is talentless.

Lol @big one being never wrong on this forum, especially after members here proving him wrong many times.

One Piece



CP9, Super Novas, Blackbeard prior to becoming an Emperor, Magellan, etc... =/= Villains of the arc without any connection to the overall story.

All of them except Enel have direct connection to the story.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I think he's done quite a few oneshots since but nothing big

Life is unfair sometimes. He needs to team up with a good writer on something major ASAP. Wasted talent right there.

Calling chicken scratch Oda an artist is an insult to all artists out there.

Drawing ugly characters is not original, it just shows that Oda talentless.

Lol @big one being never on this forum, especially after members here proving him wrong many times.

cute

 

[Lain]

Hey Survivor, have you read Mars no Kiss?
It's not completely yuri, but it has a lesbian theme and it's pretty mature. If you haven't read it I'd recommend it.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Calling chicken scratch Oda an artist is an insult to all artists out there.

Drawing ugly characters is not original, it just shows that Oda is talentless.

Lol @big one being never wrong on this forum, especially after members here proving him wrong many times.

It's good that we have well balanced and reasonable people like you to counter Big One.

 

[survivor]

Hey Survivor, have you read Mars no Kiss?
It's not completely yuri, but it has a lesbian theme and it's pretty mature. If you haven't read it I'd recommend it.

Nope, but it looks pretty good from its summary. Will read it.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Calling chicken scratch Oda an artist is an insult to all artists out there.

Drawing ugly characters is not original, it just shows that Oda is talentless.

Zoro, Sanji, Luffy, Ace, and Sabo are honestly far from ugly

 

[survivor]

Since you guys are talking about best Jump artists, this is a list of my favourite manga artists in no particular order

Inio Asano (Solanin, Punpun)
Mitsurou Kubo (Again, 3.3.7 Byooshi)
Taiyo Matsumoto (Takemitsu Zamurai, Ping Pong)
Kaoru Mori (Emma, A Bride's Story)
Takehiko Inoue (REAL, Vagabond)
Miki Yoshikawa (Yamada and Seven Witches)

 

[ColossalLazy]

Obata as seen in Blue Dragon and early Bakuman and late Eyeshield Murata were by far the two best artists in modern Jump. Shame Murata left Jump and Obata got lazy.

Oh his color spreads were amazing.

Edit: I will add something later

 

[Glass Rebel]

Since you guys are talking about best Jump artists, this is a list of my favourite manga artists in no particular order

Inio Asano (Solanin, Punpun)
Mitsurou Kubo (Again, 3.3.7 Byooshi)
Taiyo Matsumoto (Takemitsu Zamurai, Ping Pong)
Kaoru Mori (Emma, A Bride's Story)
Takehiko Inoue (REAL, Vagabond)
Miki Yoshikawa (Yamada and Seven Witches)

"There is more character in a blade of grass drawn by Takehiko Inoue than the entire cast of Bleach"

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Zoro, Sanji, Luffy, Ace, and Sabo are honestly far from ugly

DTL would know, he's an expert on pretty shonen boys.

 

[Reknoc]

I think he's done quite a few oneshots since but nothing big

Isn't he about to do that magical girl thing?

 

[Dresden]

"There is more character in a blade of grass drawn by Takehiko Inoue than the entire cast of Bleach"

"there is more character in a blade of grass shopped in by Takehiko Inoue's assistant than the entire cast of Bleach"

 

[Kreed]

One Piece:

All of them except Enel have direct connection to the story.

When you originally quoted me you said villains outside of Admirals/Emperors/Shichibukai would be boring because they have no connection to the story. Those villains I mentioned, excluding Enel all have story connections without being in those groups and that's fine because I wasn't asking for villains without story connections vs villains outside of those three groups getting some focus/build up. Hell I'd love to see a major World Nobel villain or even some villains within the Revolutionaries because at least with those groups there's no "standard" that's been set that Oda can rely on and he'd have to properly build them up.

 

[cntr]

One Piece's art and style is one of the best around, imo, but it does take some getting used to.

Anyway, going to (re)read Toriko. I hope eating dinner will stop me from getting hungry.

 

[Freshmaker]

Backgrounds are more than just drawing few trees or few buildings .

Yeah. A sensible manga dude would simply keep some BG's in a folder and photoshop them in later.

Or drop photographs in behind the characters...

 

[Infinite Justice]

Yeah. A sensible manga dude would simply keep some BG's in a folder and photoshop them in later.

Or drop photographs in behind the characters...

Sounds like your firing shots here...

 

[Parallax]

Calling chicken scratch Oda an artist is an insult to all artists out there.

Drawing ugly characters is not original, it just shows that Oda is talentless.

Shooting for the moon I see.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Shooting for the moon I see.

One of these days parallax tone of these days. (Couldn't resist)

 

[Glass Rebel]

Yeah. A sensible manga dude would simply keep some BG's in a folder and photoshop them in later.

Or drop photographs in behind the characters...

Who does this?

 

[Solune]

HYPE

Only shounen anime that will be good

What about Magi =p. Shounen Fall guys, the storm, it's coming.

Obata as seen in Blue Dragon and early Bakuman and late Eyeshield Murata were by far the two best artists in modern Jump. Shame Murata left Jump and Obata got lazy.

Murata =( He needs to get something out asap.

Isn't he about to do that magical girl thing?

No that was debunked. a while ago http://neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34557409&postcount=13372

 

[survivor]

Annarasumanara vol 1

Guys, there is something weird happening. This is a manhwa, yet I'm liking it. I think I'm sick

There is a nice mix between fantasy and reality elements that makes this manhwa very interesting and the scene when the magician was about to perform the cutting act was really tense. Only thing that still baffles me is how that smart rich kid is considered handsome. He is fucking ugly

What about Magi =p. Shounen Fall guys, the storm, it's coming.

Magi sucks

 

[Dedication Through Light]

Annarasumanara vol 1
Only thing that still baffles me is how that smart rich kid is considered handsome. He is fucking ugly

Oh dear heavens...but the magician dude.

 

[Dresden]

He's hot, don't see the problem here.