Pro for me. RT for my other half, who literally only needs a browser for Facebook and something to stream iPlayer to.
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
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Pro for me. RT for my other half, who literally only needs a browser for Facebook and something to stream iPlayer to.
Pro for me then in two years new pro for me and the better half goes the old one. The touch pad she has is good enough
Damon Bennet
Member
They will probably reveal the price of both a week after the iPad Mini/iPhone announcement. I am pretty sure they want to steal their thunder, or something
Id prefer to be able to preorder NOW though.
Id prefer to be able to preorder NOW though.
I get both, no idea where I would "walk in" though and that was my question in the first place.
Diablohead
Member
Has any more information been given out for the intel version yet? I know that it will always be weaker then a regular priced desktop pc tower but I still want one next year, if it can run a few pc games at an ok mark and be portable as a tablet it's a winner in my eyes.
Damon Bennet
Member
I know it has an i5 ivy bridge processor.
joeygreco1985
Member
Disappointed that the Pro won't make it this year. Oh well, will stick with my iPad for a little longer then
Steelyuhas
Member
A lot of the people in this thread, including myself are waiting for the Pro, but I guarantee the RT version outsells the Pro by a wide margin for the general public.
I have seen anyone in the forums I go to (Neogaf/ars/SA) gaga over the RT tablet.
Now its still prossible since I did misjudge the sales of Kinect, but Kinect is alot cheaper than a RT tablet.
Steelyuhas
Member
The people posting on these forums commonly don't represent the opinion of the general public.
The thing is if RT doesn't sell well we will never get any sales number. We still don't know how bad did Kin sell.
Hopefully once the price is announce a large general website will do a poll so we get an idea.
A valid point, but the Kin never left US.
Sanky Panky
Banned
So the expectation with this thing is that we may be able to run simple windows games, installed via .exe files, or is it an entirely different OS environment?
This might make me wait for it. Otherwise, I don't know if I should go for the Nexus 7 instead.
Sorry if this has been covered ad naseum. I haven't read much of this thread.
edit: nvmnd. Just read about the difference between RT and Windows 8. Comes down to price for me I guess.
This might make me wait for it. Otherwise, I don't know if I should go for the Nexus 7 instead.
Sorry if this has been covered ad naseum. I haven't read much of this thread.
edit: nvmnd. Just read about the difference between RT and Windows 8. Comes down to price for me I guess.
The RT is going to out sell the Pro by millions, mark my words. Its the V6 mustang to the GT model, its what will carry the platform forward. GAF or any internet forum community are filled with enthusiasts who are always the vocal minority and do not represent the common consumer.
WinRT is the platform name, it does not run or support x86 architecture. Meaning, any existing software will not 'run' on it. Developers will need to write their applications using the WinRT kernal, and their applications will be sold via the Windows Store. Its a full fledged version of Windows 8, don't make the mistake of thinking otherwise. It has a limited desktop mode, used only for a special version of Office built to run on WinRT. Surface RT will likely feel and operate much like an iPad does today, in that its its own OS that can stand on its own but its built with a different purpose in mind. A more streamlined approach to computing, refined by removing archaic walls that often get in the way of the average user.
Surface Pro is basically a fully fledged computer as you think of it today. It will run both WinRT and x86 architecture. Users can install old/existing/new programs like they do today and they also have access to the Windows Store and all WinRT based applications that RT users us. WinRT apps are often called "Metro" meaning they run exclusively in the Metro UI platform. What is the Metro UI? Well basically its that pretty screen you see flashed everywhere when Windows 8 is talked about. In a nutshell it replaces the start menu.. in fact the start menu doesn't exist in Windows 8. Hit the Start key and you 'return' to Metro. Metro is for lack of better words.. your "home" in Windows 8. You can drop the the desktop if you have a Surface Pro, or a regular install of Windows 8 on a laptop/desktop. Most Windows 7 users will do this and continue to use Windows like they do today, with the added features and speed of Windows 8.
In a nutshell, Surface RT is an iPad-like approach, and Surface Pro is a laptop/desktop approach. Both are wrapped into the Surface form factor, each giving you a different experience.
Windows RT is the ARM Operating System, WinRT is the new runtime which runs on both ARM and x86/64 Operating Systems. Confusing, but they will probably just market the ARM stuff as Windows.
If you think the RT tablet will sell as well as V6 Mustang as oppose to the V6 Account (iPad) and Corolla (Nexus 7) than I agree with you.
I wonder how fast the ARM devices will be and how well they'll stand the test of time.
With an x86 device you really know what you get. With a core i5 / HD4000 I'd be confident that I could use the Surface Pro for 5 years just like I'm still using a Core 2 Duo / GMA 3000 five years after I bought it.
But looking at the ongoing ARMs race on phones, speeds seem to increase more rapidly. How useful will a 1st gen iPad be after five years? Lots of people already upgraded theirs because of the big leaps to 2nd and 3rd gen.
With an x86 device you really know what you get. With a core i5 / HD4000 I'd be confident that I could use the Surface Pro for 5 years just like I'm still using a Core 2 Duo / GMA 3000 five years after I bought it.
But looking at the ongoing ARMs race on phones, speeds seem to increase more rapidly. How useful will a 1st gen iPad be after five years? Lots of people already upgraded theirs because of the big leaps to 2nd and 3rd gen.
Sanky Panky
Banned
Awesome explanation. Thanks! I'll do Pro if the price is right. Need my quirky business sims from the 90's on the go...
Shogmaster
Member
There is definitely a faster growth for ARM processing power, but that just illustrates how slow they were before. X86/64 processors had much more competitive architecture battle (until recently anyways) while ARM's architecture improvements takes place without competition pressures.
At the end of the day, ARM processors will be limited to about 2W max TDP while X86/64 will settle onto about 20W average TDP, not counting Atoms and Brazos of the world (15~17W for Ultrabooks and 35W for full sized laptops) and that will ensure a healthy gap of capabilities for the high end tasks.
For your every day tasks, I think ARM has already reached a comfortable level, so this is why you get the distortion for most consumers thinking that someday ARM devices will catch up and then surpass X86/64 devices magically despite the max TDP limitations.
Microsoft Surface to go on sale Oct 26th
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/30/3201524/microsoft-surface-release-date-october-26th
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/30/3201524/microsoft-surface-release-date-october-26th
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
I think your overlooking the OEM market by a metric fuckton.
Even MS has said they dont expect more then a few million or so of their own brand of tablets sold.
There are going to probably be a 10:1 ratio of X86 Windows Tablets to ARM tablets sold.
Theres already 20 atom based tablets announced,Plus another what 10 or so i5s, to the 3 Arm?
RT is gonna be a footnote..its like NT on PowerPC and Alpha compared to NT on Intel processors.
bloodydrake
Cool Smoke Luke
I presume your responding to me?
why do you think those 20+ atom tablets are going to be more expensive then MS's Surface RT?
I expect them to be of comparable price.
If the bench's come out and the CloverTrail is equivalent in performance in Metro apps and battery life ect..why would anyone buy an ARM version of a tablet?( other then that the Surface RT is sexy)
I expect the i5 based tablets to be 800+ bucks. I don't expect that to be the base system.
3 months after windows 8 (oct 26th). that is all that they have said.
It's probably going to be an N-Trig digitizer like the thinkpad tablet from last year, as opposed to the Wacom in the Surface. Quite possible this isn't the case too, as they ship Wacom digitizers on the X series windows tablets.
(wacom pens >>>>> n-trig)
I would actually say the largest downside is the ram. Even with Win 8's lighter load, it's going to be incredibly meager especially if Lenovo doesn't lighten the load of their Thinkpad utilities and services. Business tablet should have 4GB
brotkasten
Member
Windows RT is a different platform than Windows 8. You can not install or use your old desktop software on it, because it runs on ARM processors, similar to the iPad or Android tablets. The only desktop software you'll see on this is the File Explorer, desktop IE and the free copy of Office that ships with every Windows RT device.
So I'm exchanging my transformer prime at best buy, if they do accept the return they will most likely not have a replacement unit as it has been replaced by transformer infinity. According to folks at XDA, best buy will either give you transformer infinity or a store credit.
Now I'm wondering if I should go for infinity now or wait for the surface?
Or even go for the new ipad.
Now I'm wondering if I should go for infinity now or wait for the surface?
Or even go for the new ipad.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
depends do you want to be an early adopter or do you wanna go the tried and tested route?
How long have you owned it? Are they going to let you exchange it after you've been using it for months?
Hes probably going to microwave it and go for warranty return.
I mean its entirely possible for sure, and I could be eating crow very soon. I'm not too passionate or sold on the idea that RT is going to dominate. But I have a feeling it will, thats based on several people I know who want a win8 tablet and after seeing the versions decided that a Pro is unnecessary for them.
However you are right about the OEM and Enterprise market. It will be huge.. huge. My company alone will probably refresh at least 5,000 Windows devices in the next year, most of which will run on newer Windows 8 images our team is currently developing. We move fast, we're already working on plans to phase out Windows 7 enterprise wide and are already starting to move some of our Server 2008R2 builds to Server 2012.
Even though those products aren't yet RTM, we are Super TAP and have access to basically the RTM builds that will get the last features through simple updates.
Enterprise market will be big, and our IT finance department is already budgeting for hundreds of Surface Pros for Q1 next year. We are likely buying a few hundred RTs for one of our retail divisions this holiday. Basically our company is looking to phase out laptops with tablets and convertible ultrabooks in the coming years.
Steelyuhas
Member
I think a lot of people would love to have that situation at work, but there are a lot of companies out there that really lag behind on updating their technology, from OS's to applications.
brotkasten
Member
Nope.
The Bookerman
Member
that would be retarded, and won't happen since they only have 30 stores in the US.
IIRC it's a requirement for all Win 8 tablets.
No that's not a requirement, just that if there is a nfc chip its location should be labeled.
Yes they demonstrated it's NFC capabilities when it debuted.
So the more time that passes the more and more I think this will get a haswell chip.
Haswell is a 22nm intel cpu that introduces new power management
seems like others are thinking the same as me
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57486864-92/the-next-chapter-in-the-ultrabook-saga-haswell/
and it seems like intel is working with pc makers to have it ready by april to boost sales.
If you take the 3 months from win 8 launch which is late october it brings you into late January. So is it possible that intel would have a small number (1 million or so) ready in time for a Febuary launch of Surface pro. It puts it about 2 months earlier than other companys
http://legitreviews.com/news/13741/
http://legitreviews.com/news/13682/
Haswell is a 22nm intel cpu that introduces new power management
seems like others are thinking the same as me
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57486864-92/the-next-chapter-in-the-ultrabook-saga-haswell/
and it seems like intel is working with pc makers to have it ready by april to boost sales.
If you take the 3 months from win 8 launch which is late october it brings you into late January. So is it possible that intel would have a small number (1 million or so) ready in time for a Febuary launch of Surface pro. It puts it about 2 months earlier than other companys
http://legitreviews.com/news/13741/
http://legitreviews.com/news/13682/
jossueinacoma
Member
Not sure if mentioned yet but there are internal rumors at MS that all employees may get the surface. They will need that to educate the salesmen at the MS stores. lucky bastards if true.
RT has a 31.4Wh battery, new ipad has a 42.5Wh battery. But ipad has a higher res screen and going by the Asus Transformer Infinity, tegra3 is really great on battery life...Infinity has a high res screen too but only a 25.5Wh battery and lasts just as long as the new ipad.
So RT in theory should have better battery life, but it'll also depends on the OS too.
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