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[GillianSeed79]

We have religious schools thats true, but also plenty neutral schools that teach both RE, and science with the theory of evolution. More and more schools are neutral here these days, most secondaries in particular tend to be that way. Most are religious in the loosest sense (ie a few hymns and readings but rest of the time it's business as usual). Besides that, at least at secondary school level, they CAN'T not teach evolution in science, unless they want to let that kid down when it comes to exams. A teacher can give their personal view on such matters, but it's down to the individual how they choose to take it all, no matter what their parents or mentors believe.

I don't know if your read my opening line and decided to reply in ignorance of the rest of my post. But I stated my distaste for religion trying to sweep others under the rug to "protect" the kiddies, when actually, the quickest way to sour your kid to any belief is to hide things from them. I hate the anti-gay tirade American Christians have going, because it's based on a verse taken completely out of context and twisted into an excuse to hate. Same with the whole pro-choice thing, if you don't want to be gay or have an abortion, fine, but as Jesus said "Let he without sin cast the first stone"

Of course we still have the subsets of religion that are stubborn about the whole creationism vs evolution argument. But as a Christian I happilly accept evolution and there's plenty out there who do too. Teaching about the worlds religions is about breakiing down those walls that divide us, rather than building the walls higher. Plus as I stated, RE classes are NOT for "converting" people to Christianity or any other faith, or even accepting them personally, but learning to understand and respect people who do have beliefs and the stories and culture behind them.

To be fair, I think some private schools get a bad rap as far as the stereotypes that surround them. I went to Catholic school my entire life before entering and graduating from a public university. For one thing, evolution was always taught in science class. A comparative religion class was also required to graduate where we learned about every major religion from Zoroasterianism(sic) to Islam. I'm not denying that religion wasn't a part of everyday life in school, but when it came to classes, outside of pointless bible study religion classes, every class was as secular as it could be. The main reason why people sent their kids to this school was because their parents had the money to pay the tuition and were obsessed with their kids getting into a good college. I met plenty of children of doctors and lawyers who ranged from Hindu, Jewish to Muslim in Catholic school. Most rich people don't send their kids to private school because they want them to be tought Creationism, they pay the money because they are obsessed with their kid getting into places like Stanford or Harvard.

The flip side is anyone who graduated from Catholic school will tell you the easiest way to get your kid to stop being religious is to force them to go through 12 years of Catholic school.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

I get the distinct impression that some of you guys are purposefully tiptoeing on the line of 'hey we mean this, we didn't mean this' etc. but don't necessarily believe that. It seems like if you guys had a choice of either no religion at all, or every religion you'd pick the latter just because a lot of people believe it, promoting multiculturalism etc. and so on and not caring about whether it's true or not.

And it would be in the purpose of love harmony bathing in other people's beliefs 'everyone has the right idea' let's embrace etc. It just feels really creepy. I picture some kid in class saying I'm a christian and this is what I believe! and then the teacher points to another kid and he says I'm a muslim this is what I believe! And they're forced to shake hands and hug. I mean I'm a hardcore leftist on most issues but I don't understand this liberal hypothetical dream.

So basically you want religious people to hate each other so you still have a reason to hate them so much?

 

[Laughing Banana]

I get the distinct impression that some of you guys are purposefully tiptoeing on the line of 'hey we mean this, we didn't mean this' etc. but don't necessarily believe that. It seems like if you guys had a choice of either no religion at all, or every religion you'd pick the latter just because a lot of people believe it, promoting multiculturalism etc. and so on and not caring about whether it's true or not.

And it would be in the purpose of love harmony bathing in other people's beliefs 'everyone has the right idea' let's embrace etc. It just feels really creepy. I picture some kid in class saying I'm a christian and this is what I believe! and then the teacher points to another kid and he says I'm a muslim this is what I believe! And they're forced to shake hands and hug. I mean I'm a hardcore leftist on most issues but I don't understand this liberal hypothetical dream.

....I really think you really are the creepy one in here but eh, to each his own.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I get the distinct impression that some of you guys are purposefully tiptoeing on the line of 'hey we mean this, we didn't mean this' etc. but don't necessarily believe that. It seems like if you guys had a choice of either no religion at all, or every religion you'd pick the latter just because a lot of people believe it, promoting multiculturalism etc. and so on and not caring about whether it's true or not.

And it would be in the purpose of love harmony bathing in other people's beliefs 'everyone has the right idea' let's embrace etc. It just feels really creepy. I picture some kid in class saying I'm a christian and this is what I believe! and then the teacher points to another kid and he says I'm a muslim this is what I believe! And they're forced to shake hands and hug. I mean I'm a hardcore leftist on most issues but I don't understand this liberal hypothetical dream.

The main benefit is that it weakens the hold that one religion will have over a child's life. It's really good at that.

 

[daw840]

What the fuck....just heard about this.

Why the hell would he go to a Sikh temple?!? They haven't hurt anyone ever as far as I know...

 

[NullPointer]

Angry Fork, its culturally relevant, its historically relevant, and religion is a powerful influence on most of the world today. Whether a religion's teachings are factually true or provable has no bearing upon that.

Now we can either mock the majority of people on this planet and their traditions and cultural norms, or we can try to understand each other, even if we hold to different principles in our own lives.

 

[Bombadil]

Look at how difficult it is for some of them to teach evolution without sneaking in some religious perversion. It would definitely be a difficult endeavor, but it would probably be worth it in the long haul. Particularly if they started it young.

My experience with university biology courses has been the opposite. The professor made snide comments about creationism far too often, despite no one in the class of 80 students ever bringing it up. He even included a question in the final exam, which asked how old the Earth was and included 6,000 years old as the answer.

Later, in a cognitive psychology course, my professor went on a tangent for a few minutes about the "shoddy design" of the human eye - again, despite no one bringing it up. It's kind of shaped my views on the whole situation. I try to strike a balance between civility and rationality, whereas others seem content with being assholes as long as they're confident that they're right.

I get the distinct impression that some of you guys are purposefully tiptoeing on the line of 'hey we mean this, we didn't mean this' etc. but don't necessarily believe that. It seems like if you guys had a choice of either no religion at all, or every religion you'd pick the latter just because a lot of people believe it, promoting multiculturalism etc. and so on and not caring about whether it's true or not.

And it would be in the purpose of love harmony bathing in other people's beliefs 'everyone has the right idea' let's embrace etc. It just feels really creepy. I picture some kid in class saying I'm a christian and this is what I believe! and then the teacher points to another kid and he says I'm a muslim this is what I believe! And they're forced to shake hands and hug. I mean I'm a hardcore leftist on most issues but I don't understand this liberal hypothetical dream.

Seems to me like it's more a psychological failing rather than a political view.

 

[greepoman]

As long as the teaching remains entirely neutral, there will be no problems. But I imagine teachers would let their personal attitudes get in the way. It would require a lot of training on the part of the teachers to include it in the curriculum.

Bingo. Trying to get teachers to "fairly" teach about other religions would be a mess. Not to mention the uproar from the religious right you're going to get when you try to mention other religions to their kids.

 

[Count Dookkake]

My experience with university biology courses has been the opposite.

Well, I'm not talking about university. I'm talking about grade school.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Angry Fork clearly never been around people of different cultures. Infact it would not surprise me if he hasn't travelled to check out the world around him.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Angry Fork, you realise that people like Dawkins and Hitchens studied religion right? People can learn about religions without buying into them.

 

[apana]

We should teach about different religions and the basic tenets of those faith because it is just basic knowledge that you need to understand history and the people who live around you. I wonder where some of you guys went to school, world religions is a common unit in many history classes. It should frankly be required. Teaching someone what Christianity is and how it relates to European history is very different from forcing them to pray. How can you learn about the history of Asia without understanding at a basic level what Hindus and Buddhists believe? I really hope people aren't opposed to teaching facts about religions because they think that the children will somehow be indoctrinated in school, that is beyond laughable. I'm not advocating a bible class. What's next? Are we supposed to teach kids about the holocaust but not talk about the belief in white supremacy that led to it because that is a philosophy many oppose and some children may be influenced by it?

 

[Angry Fork]

The main benefit is that it weakens the hold that one religion will have over a child's life. It's really good at that.

I guess but I mean it could only be valuable if used in that way in places with a ferocious religious background like the bible belt or something. If more cultures (including religion) were taught there then sure it could be helpful in breaking the household dominance over a child. So instead of being hardcore christian they can say well there are other religions or they can be open to the fact that many are similar and move away from them and so on.

But if you have a state like NY or chicago or LA where it's largely secular I don't see why we shouldn't just cut it at the root. Why bother wasting time explaining a bunch of different religions when you can cut the religion out at the start? Basically I don't see the use for this kind of thing among people who are blank slates or aren't that religious to begin with.

Angry Fork clearly never been around people of different cultures. Infact it would not surprise me if he hasn't travelled to check out the world around him.

I live in NYC and take the train every day I've encountered thousands upon thousands of different people. Public school teaching has nothing to do with culture for me it's about what's true or not and not promoting ignorance for the sake of tolerance.

Angry Fork, you realise that people like Dawkins and Hitchens studied religion right? People can learn about religions without buying into them.

I know I have no problem with that I've read the bible twice for the sake of research I really have no problem learning about the stuff, but it should be optional, not something the state should implement just because people are upset about some psychopath. There are much darker and sinister issues at play in American culture that contribute to these events and it's not because little joey didn't learn about the difference between Sikh's and Buddhists and Muslims and so on.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Bingo. Trying to get teachers to "fairly" teach about other religions would be a mess. Not to mention the uproar from the religious right you're going to get when you try to mention other religions to their kids.

My Jewish Grade 6 teacher and Asian Grade 7 teacher had no problem in that regard. Then again I live in Vancouver.

 

[Big Baybee]

Teaching the history and politics behind religion is not promoting ignorance. What you are suggesting, Angry Fork, is promoting ignorance.

 

[JennyTablina]

Bingo. Trying to get teachers to "fairly" teach about other religions would be a mess. Not to mention the uproar from the religious right you're going to get when you try to mention other religions to their kids.

If a teacher can seperate their personal opinions from what they teach and y'know, be professional about it, then there shouldn't be a problem.

My Religious Studies teacher told us he was Christian for full disclosure once, never once did he speak ill of anyone's faith or even of Muslims right after 9/11. He taught each one as best he could, without bringing his personal feelings into the matter, but yes there will always be a few who don't leave their personal opinions outside the class room, and they should be pulled up for it.

 

[VALIS]

Do you not understand what the separation of church and state is? Can anyone give a reasonable argument for why personal beliefs should be taught to kids by the state in public schools? That is what people are suggesting. THAT is irrational.

In terms of schools, the separation of church and state, one of America's greatest principles, is based on teaching religion as a source of knowledge and worship. Not, as people are suggesting in this thread, as a subject of sociology and history.

 

[NullPointer]

I live in NYC and take the train every day I've encountered thousands upon thousands of different people. Public school teaching has nothing to do with culture for me it's about what's true or not and not promoting ignorance for the sake of tolerance.

Truth is relative. And material, repeatable facts alone don't provide a sense of comfort, peace or inspiration for many people.

If anything I think education should focus more on critical thinking and logic, and the need to collaborate with a variety of perspectives.

 

[KtSlime]

Angry Fork, you realise that people like Dawkins and Hitchens studied religion right? People can learn about religions without buying into them.

Yeah, I'd say the more we teach more religions the fewer religious we will have.

 

[ElFly]

The separation of church and state, one of America's greatest principles, is based on teaching religion as a source of knowledge and worship. Not, as people are suggesting in this thread, as a subject of sociology and history.

Well, the right to bear arms was supposed to be about a well regulated militia to defend the country from the king of england and, you know, the interpretation kind of changed.

 

[Laughing Banana]

If a teacher can seperate their personal opinions from what they teach and y'know, be professional about it, then there shouldn't be a problem.

My Religious Studies teacher told us he was Christian for full disclosure once, never once did he speak ill of anyone's faith or even of Muslims right after 9/11. He taught each one as best he could, without bringing his personal feelings into the matter, but yes there will always be a few who don't leave their personal opinions outside the class room, and they should be pulled up for it.

Teachers that let their personal opinions influencing their teachings are nothing new and is not something that is happening exclusively on religious people only, yeah.

 

[Angry Fork]

The separation of church and state, one of America's greatest principles, is based on teaching religion as a source of knowledge and worship. Not, as people are suggesting in this thread, as a subject of sociology and history.

I've always been okay with this, but I don't get that vibe from some people here (and a lot of people on the left in general). Many modern liberals sort of take this anti-right wing anti-christian fundamentalist stance and support anything that's a different religion for the sake of balancing it out.

I'm okay with promoting other alternative views lifestyles etc. but it seems like people support teaching about religion in schools more so as a tactical move to offset the grasp christian fundamentalism has on Americans rather than for legitimate multicultural purposes. I take the stance that we should cut off religion at the root rather than play these back and forth games of teaching what this person believes what that believes and so on.

 

[Bombadil]

I've always been okay with this, but I don't get that vibe from some people here (and a lot of people on the left in general). Many modern liberals sort of take this anti-right wing anti-christian fundamentalist stance and support anything that's a different religion for the sake of balancing it out.

I'm okay with promoting other alternative views lifestyles etc. but it seems like people support teaching about religion in schools more so as a tactical move to offset the grasp christian fundamentalism has on Americans rather than for legitimate multicultural purposes. I take the stance that we should cut off religion at the root rather than play these back and forth games of teaching what this person believes what that believes and so on.

You're in the minority with the attitude you have about religion.

The vibe you're getting is "tolerance."

This isn't a thread about how best we can "cut religion off at the root."

 

[greepoman]

If a teacher can seperate their personal opinions from what they teach and y'know, be professional about it, then there shouldn't be a problem.

My Religious Studies teacher told us he was Christian for full disclosure once, never once did he speak ill of anyone's faith or even of Muslims right after 9/11. He taught each one as best he could, without bringing his personal feelings into the matter, but yes there will always be a few who don't leave their personal opinions outside the class room, and they should be pulled up for it.

You had a religious studies teacher in grade school? Well that sounds great but I grew up in the south where I was afraid to even mention I didn't know if I believed in God to my teachers because the few times I did I got non-stop harassed by those teachers to try to get me to go to church and change my beliefs (public school btw).

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Good luck cutting off at the root belief systems that billions of people around the world adhere to. Ignoring them won't make them go away.

edit: exactly gillianseed. Saying that educating people about something is promoting ignorance is ridiculous.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Angry Fork, you realise that people like Dawkins and Hitchens studied religion right? People can learn about religions without buying into them.

I've actually been facsinated by learning about religion and the various faiths despite not being very religious. Plus religion still has had a huge influence, for good or worse, on modern world history. How do you even begin to learn about India and Pakistan without talking about religion? Afghanistan? The whole Shia vs. Sunni differences in Iraq? How about Catholicism and the Solidarity movement in Poland?

I'm not saying it should be standard studies in grade school, but ignoring studying religion from an objective standpoint breeds as much ignorance as indoctrinizing kids into believing in a single faith.

 

[apana]

I've always been okay with this, but I don't get that vibe from some people here (and a lot of people on the left in general). Many modern liberals sort of take this anti-right wing anti-christian fundamentalist stance and support anything that's a different religion for the sake of balancing it out.

I'm okay with promoting other alternative views lifestyles etc. but it seems like people support teaching about religion in schools more so as a tactical move to offset the grasp christian fundamentalism has on Americans rather than for legitimate multicultural purposes.

Teaching it as a subject of sociology and history will require learning what that faith entails. Kids will have to learn the beliefs that certain religions hold and the rituals they perform. I don't think anyone has any ulterior motives here, we believe basic knowledge is good for people. Most people believe in religion because that is what their parents believe, an idea isn't a virus that takes control of you the moment you are exposed to it. Kids shouldn't be given a neutered version of history, that is a recipe for disaster. Also don't presume that not telling them anything at all will result in secularism taking root, likely the opposite will happen.

edit: My view may be biased because I went to an awesome high school in California and religion was a part of history courses. I'm not sure what more impoverished high schools or high schools in religious or conservative areas are like.

 

[Angry Fork]

You're in the minority with the attitude you have about religion.

The vibe you're getting is "tolerance."

This isn't a thread about how best we can "cut religion off at the root."

No the vibe I'm getting is overreaction to a lone incident (although I don't doubt people treating non-christians in America like shit seems to be a past time these days). Would teaching about other cultures in hardcore bible belt schools be beneficial? Sure, but in secular institutions where it's unnecessary? It doesn't belong except when it's optional (or history/sociology like others have mentioned, but not presented as fact).

Good luck cutting off at the root belief systems that billions of people around the world adhere to. Ignoring them won't make them go away.

Baby steps. It's only a matter of time and education. We've come a long way from Ancient times, hell a long way from the 1950s.

 

[Bombadil]

No the vibe I'm getting is overreaction to a lone incident (although I don't doubt people treating non-christians in America like shit seems to be a past time these days). Would teaching about other cultures in hardcore bible belt schools be beneficial? Sure, but in secular institutions where it's unnecessary? It doesn't belong except when it's optional.

This isn't an overreaction to a lone incident. It's a long time coming. It wasn't like this was the moment we realized that there was something wrong with the American educational system.

Your premises are presumptuous. You cannot decide what is and isn't necessary, and seeing as how you're completely wrong about what the separation of church and state entails, I'll invite you to stop talking about it.

Baby steps. It's only a matter of time and education. We've come a long way from Ancient times, hell a long way from the 1950s.

Completely ironic, since you're discouraging education.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

No the vibe I'm getting is overreaction to a lone incident (although I don't doubt people treating non-christians in America like shit seems to be a past time these days). Would teaching about other cultures in hardcore bible belt schools be beneficial? Sure, but in secular institutions where it's unnecessary? It doesn't belong except when it's optional (or history/sociology like others have mentioned, but not presented as fact).



Baby steps. It's only a matter of time and education. We've come a long way from Ancient times, hell a long way from the 1950s.

It's not a lone incident. There is a lot of discrimination and hate crime targeted towards Muslims and by extension to Sikhs and Hindus, simply because the criminal in these hate crimes never learnt about the religion from anywhere other than StormFront and Fox News.

 

[apana]

We shouldn't teach people about racism, murder, or slavery. That sutff offends me, it should just be purged from the record books. Also sex gives me the oogies, need to get rid of that quickly. Leads to a lot of messy situations.

No the vibe I'm getting is overreaction to a lone incident (although I don't doubt people treating non-christians in America like shit seems to be a past time these days). Would teaching about other cultures in hardcore bible belt schools be beneficial? Sure, but in secular institutions where it's unnecessary? It doesn't belong except when it's optional (or history/sociology like others have mentioned, but not presented as fact).



Baby steps. It's only a matter of time and education. We've come a long way from Ancient times, hell a long way from the 1950s.

That is all we are talking about.

 

[Kad5]

I get the feeling that people aren't feeling for this nearly as much as the dark knight shooting....

Not in this thread but rather on places like twitter or facebook.

 

[planar1280]

I get the feeling that people aren't feeling for this nearly as much as the dark knight shooting....

Not in this thread but rather on places like twitter or facebook.

That much is pretty clear, you can make your own judgment why that is

 

[ciridesu]

Condolences to victims' families, shame one of the most important symbols of their religion was forever tainted by this fucked up person.

Regarding the discussion going on above, what do I personally think?

It's not about religion, it rarely is. There are fucked up people doing fucked up things, always have been, always will be. All these isolated incidences are in most cases explained by other phenomena, such as poverty, lack of education, poor childhood environment and other societal issues. Education about religion specifically does little to prevent this, it's a much larger issue. We get taught about Islam and other religions here in Europe, at least in Scandinavia, and xenophobia is arguably worse here than in America.

This fear of difference, which can also be applied to homophobia, is part of a natural trait in humans. We build a picture of everything based on past experiences, whether it is electronic brands or types of people. Some stocks in the stock market are overvalued, some undervalued, all based on image. Image is everything, you all may have a different one regarding Apple, just as everyone does regarding Muslims or Obama, irrelevant of facts. Media defines this image and messages 'past experiences' to people. Similar situation here in my country, people are xenophobic towards immigrants and largely want to prevent the huge in-flows of immigration, especially refugees. ( Though admittedly the government hasn't made it easy and I understand much of the hate ) No-one cares we need immigrants for further growth, when people retire. No-one cares about alternative explanations to violence. All most see is the populist 'THEY TAKIN OUR JERBS' -headline. Thus, Fox.

Not hoping to derail. Besides societal issues and general image issues that mostly explain all crimes in my opinion, instead of differences in race or belief, I honestly think some of these could be contracted in the future by much stricter gun laws. Such a culture change would surely take time, fuckloads of it, but, next generation perhaps, as is seen in some other countries such as the UK. Here, people rob with knives instead of guns, same would in some cases apply to these large scale massacres.

Terrible it had to happen in a temple of all places though, the one place that is supposed to be regarded sacred by all.

 

[speculawyer]

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain why you would want mythology to be mandatory teaching in public schools? This thread is blowing my mind I can't believe you guys are serious. It has nothing to do with hate it's common sense who am I hating?

Not mythology, religion. Although the content of the religions may be mythology (well it has to be mythology for most because the can't ALL be right), the religions themselves are real institutions that guide the way many people think and have strong political power. Thus, they are very real institutions that exert real power (even if their foundations are fiction).

Thus, it is useful for an educated person to have a basic understanding of what these different religions are, how they started, what their histories are, what their basic tenets are, and what they do today. I never had such a class but I wish I did.

May I recommend Daniel Dennett's essay on why teaching religion would be good:
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/o...ennett/2009/09/teach_our_children_well_1.html

 

[Laughing Banana]

I get the feeling that people aren't feeling for this nearly as much as the dark knight shooting....

Not in this thread but rather on places like twitter or facebook.

Well of course.

...and this may sound crass, but I think it is because the victims are perceived as "them" instead of "us" like the Batman shooting. That, and Batman.

 

[Angry Fork]

It's just because it happened so soon after Aurora shooting, people's empathy surrounding shootings might be tapped out for the moment. This is still going to get plenty of air time and if this guy got his guns legally then it may be the final straw that will put gun regulation as a main issue in the debates this fall.

 

[apana]

Condolences to victims' families, shame one of the most important symbols of their religion was forever tainted by this fucked up person.

Regarding the discussion going on above, what do I personally think?

It's not about religion, it rarely is. There are fucked up people doing fucked up things, always have been, always will be. All these isolated incidences are in most cases explained by other phenomena, such as poverty, lack of education, poor childhood environment and other societal issues. Education about religion specifically does little to prevent this, it's a much larger issue. We get taught about Islam and other religions here in Europe, at least in Scandinavia, and xenophobia is arguably worse here than in America.

This fear of difference, which can also be applied to homophobia, is part of a natural trait in humans. We build a picture of everything based on past experiences, whether it is electronic brands or types of people. Some stocks in the stock market are overvalued, some undervalued, all based on image. Image is everything, you all may have a different one regarding Apple, just as everyone does regarding Muslims or Obama, irrelevant of facts. Media defines this image and messages 'past experiences' to people. Similar situation here in my country, people are xenophobic towards immigrants and largely want to prevent the huge in-flows of immigration, especially refugees. ( Though admittedly the government hasn't made it easy and I understand much of the hate ) No-one cares we need immigrants for further growth, when people retire. No-one cares about alternative explanations to violence. All most see is the populist 'THEY TAKIN OUR JERBS' -headline. Thus, Fox.

Not hoping to derail. Besides societal issues and general image issues that mostly explain all crimes in my opinion, instead of differences in race or belief, I honestly think some of these could be contracted in the future by much stricter gun laws. Such a culture change would surely take time, fuckloads of it, but, next generation perhaps, as is seen in some other countries such as the UK. Here, people rob with knives instead of guns, same would in some cases apply to these large scale massacres.

Terrible it had to happen in a temple of all places though, the one place that is supposed to be regarded sacred by all.

Yeah but it isn't like less education would make things better. There is only so much even good education can do, you just have to give it and hope people make the best of it. However there will still be kids who write a great essay on slavery and then five hours later call people then n-word while playing Call of Duty. You'll have some guy ace their test on evolutionary biology and then prepare to explain to his friends how we couldn't have come from "monkeys". In the end, like you said, instincts are hard to fight.

 

[BocoDragon]

I really have to laugh at those who think teachers "can't be trusted" to teach religion objectively.

It's basically just a history class: ie. this is who started Sikhism, this is what they believe, this is a history of them until the modern day.

ZOMG slippery slope! Come on..

 

[Kad5]

What were the motives of the shooter?

 

[RDreamer]

I get the feeling that people aren't feeling for this nearly as much as the dark knight shooting....

Not in this thread but rather on places like twitter or facebook.

They probably aren't, I guess. The thing about the Dark Knight shooting was that for one it was a much bigger scene in that more people died and more people were hurt and hospitalized. Other than that, though, it was a big cultural thing. It was something a helluva lot of people were planning to see. It was something that brought us together as an American culture (take that how you will). So in a way we all sympathized. They were just doing what any of us could have been doing at that time. They were doing a normal American activity. They were doing an activity that was already going to be in the news a ton anyway.

Unfortunately, I think the lack of feeling for this is partially because of these people having a different religion than mainstream America. Yes people can imagine themselves at their place of worship, and so that should bring us together, but I really think more time here is being focused on "Wait... what the hell is a Sikh" and that sort of thing. They are a minority population, and unfortunately I think collectively we have a little less feeling for that sort of thing. It's a terrible shame, but I kind of think it's true. I think if it were a Christian church, I think you'd see a lot of vocal Facebook posts and things like that. But, it wasn't, it was something foreign to us. I mean just look at some of the news coverage. The reporters had to basically ask "Just what is it you guys believe in?" And these were local reporters. Reporters in Milwaukee where this happened. And that's not knocking the reporters. They probably didn't know. Hell, I didn't know a lot about it. But I think that's part of the explanation.

 

[apana]

What were the motives of the shooter?

Most likely he saw a turban and decided murderous rampage was the only option to deal with such an unparalleled threat.

 

[Kad5]

Most likely he saw a turban and decided murderous rampage was the only option to deal with such an unparalleled threat.

That is literally the most idiotic and rage inducing thing i've heard in recent years.


"Hurr durr turban=muslim"


My god....

 

[Bombadil]

I really have to laugh at those who think teachers "can't be trusted" to teach religion objectively.

It's basically just a history class: ie. this is who started Sikhism, this is what they believe, this is a history of them until the modern day.

ZOMG slippery slope! Come on..

Teaching isn't like that, boco. Come on, son.

It's about tone, it's about how you answer questions, how you deal with offensive remarks from students or lack of understanding or lack of enthusiasm. Teaching is the job of standing in front of an audience every day and trying to maintain control despite knowing that every semester you're going to get a couple of hecklers.

I'm surprised teachers are as capable as they are. I have a lot of respect for them. And the topic of religion is, needless to say, sensitive, and requires training and planning and what not.

 

[coldvein]

"Hurr durr turban=muslim"

...thats generally my assumption when i see dudes in turbans.

 

[alstein]

I really have to laugh at those who think teachers "can't be trusted" to teach religion objectively.

It's basically just a history class: ie. this is who started Sikhism, this is what they believe, this is a history of them until the modern day.

ZOMG slippery slope! Come on..

There were Bible studies class as electives at my HS. It was basically teaching fundamentalism at a public high school, just on the "down-low".

 

[goomba]

...thats generally my assumption when i see dudes in turbans.

derp derp .

 

[Wendel Clark]

...thats generally my assumption when i see dudes in turbans.

why

 

[ciridesu]

Yeah but it isn't like less education would make things better. There is only so much even good education can do, you just have to give it and hope people make the best of it. However there will still be kids who write a great essay on slavery and then five hours later call people then n-word while playing Call of Duty. You'll have some guy ace their test on evolutionary biology and then prepare to explain to his friends how we couldn't have come from "monkeys". In the end, like you said, instincts are hard to fight.

Obviously it wouldn't hurt and I believe education to be one of the most important things in preventing these cases. I just don't think religion fits the school curriculum well. No-one remembers anything from sixth grade, I know I don't. How are kids at school supposed to be taught about Bible's and Coran's teachings, when even some of the adult Christians and Muslims fail to comprehend the message of these religions. They are too complex and the only thing that matters in this regard is, whether the person views a certain religion as good or bad.

Edit: I do think educating about religion is very important, I simply don't view it optimal for schools and is instead something an adult should know about, as it is part of one's world view.

 

[coldvein]

why

because i dont know any better, i guess?