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[Shake Appeal]

He was a nazi so yes.

I think this is a dangerous line to follow. White supremacist and Nazist beliefs are loathsome and reprehensible, but it's too easy to label them as 'insane' and so dismiss the danger they still pose, and to ignore their widespread (but thankfully diminishing) persistence across history and culture. If it's true that this guy was a white supremacist, then the conversation we were having earlier in the thread about educating people about the diversity of beliefs they are going to encounter among their fellow humans is all the more relevant.

 

[t26]

The metro areas on the coast are liberal. California is a lot more than the coast. There's 37.6 million people in the state, and LA/San Diego/San Jose/San Francisco add up to about 8 million.

And San Diego is not exactly a liberal city, with it's strong military ties.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

They say he was in a neo nazi punk band.

The band's myspace music page.

Yeah, they are on a neo-nazi label.

 

[SniperHunter]

I think this is a dangerous line to follow. White supremacist and Nazist beliefs are loathsome and reprehensible, but it's too easy to label them as 'insane' and so dismiss the danger they still pose, and to ignore their widespread (but thankfully diminishing) persistence across history and culture. If it's true that this guy was a white supremacist, then the conversation we were having earlier in the thread about educating people about the diversity of beliefs they are going to encounter among their fellow humans is all the more relevant.

Oh I know they are dangerous and I am not saying that they should be ignored. Killing another human being just because his skin has more melanin than yours is definitely mentally sick in my opinion.

 

[Joel Was Right]

According to reports, the officer sustained eight or nine shots. Page presumably continued to shoot at the officer point blank when he was down, because I can't imagine being shot that many times in a firefight with a handgun and still be standing

 

[bionic77]

The band's myspace music page.

Yeah, they are on a neo-nazi label.

There are neo-nazi record labels?

WTF...

 

[Shake Appeal]

It's too bad the Sikhs didn't have any weapons to protect themselves with.

Last I checked, a 20+ year veteran police officer who led tactical squads attended the scene knowing shots had been fired and was killed by one guy with a 9mm handgun. Maybe if he'd had some hand grenades?

 

[Count Dookkake]

Friend of mine lives right by the temple. Had much trouble getting home last night.

There are neo-nazi record labels?

WTF...

Never heard of the Vinyl Solution?

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

There are neo-nazi record labels?

WTF...

I mean, how else are they going to reach out to young disaffected youth? The mordern white supremacy movement, although small, runs a pretty slick operation.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It's sad that the two psychos massacring people are the focus, and not the rampant and generalized gun violence occurring all day and all night across the United States.

Are those figures including suicides?

 

[Sky Chief]

Yeah, this would never have happened if someone in that temple had been carrying a knife.

Good one, I think that flew over most people's heads though

 

[Shake Appeal]

Are those figures including suicides?

Yes, as they should, because guns facilitate suicide.

But if you just want mass shooting stats, a multiple-victim shooting occurs every six days in the US:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/24/interactive-map-the-us-shooting-epidemic.html

 

[Cat Party]

This speculation that he targeted the "wrong" group is really bothering me. It suggests it would have been understandable, i.e., "right," for him to target Muslims. There's this underlying expectation in the US that Muslims will be targeted domestically, and I get this awful feeling that there are many, many people out there who are waiting for it.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Is anyone surprised that he had ties to neo nazis?

 

[thecouncil]

I can't believe so few know what a Sikh is.
Did the terrorist attack the temple because he thought they were muslims?
Is that strongest hypothesis as of now?

How about you read the thread?

seriously. how dare you ask for a quick answer instead of reading 850 posts for the few that may answer your question.

 

[Bazza]

Good one, I think that flew over most people's heads though

I got it, a little insensitive though. I think most Kirpan's (daggers) are ceremonial and are not removable from the sheath these days, well that's for the UK anyway as its illegal to carry a blade over 2".

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Oh you mean like the gun violence in the city of Chicago where it's gun laws are doing a great job at keeping gun violence down.

Do you even know what the gun laws in Chicago are/were? They were the equivalent of banning all sales of Nintendo DS within city limits, not videogames, just Nintendo DS. And you could also just go to Joliet and buy a DS legally there. Also, if you had owned a DS before the ban you were allowed to keep it.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yes, as they should, because guns facilitate suicide.

Ah so falsely inflated numbers. So why do liberals believe in the right to commit suicide, but blame the object used, as if it has a will of its own? Are you condeming those who have chosen to end their life when they use a gun?

Also how many of those "mass" shootings involves criminals killing each other?

 

[Arrowgigantic]

seriously. how dare you ask for a quick answer instead of reading 850 posts for the few that may answer your question.

We were talking about it six posts before his.

 

[mernst23]

This speculation that he targeted the "wrong" group is really bothering me. It suggests it would have been understandable, i.e., "right," for him to target Muslims. There's this underlying expectation in the US that Muslims will be targeted domestically, and I get this awful feeling that there are many, many people out there who are waiting for it.

Yea i keep seeing this and feel it has the same overtone. I think it's more from the fact that seeing people assume he made a mistake along with the sentiment of "Sikh's don't deserve that, they're really peaceful," makes it seem like it would've been understandable if he had done this at a mosque.

I don't know if it's subconscious or an honest mistake; but it feels wrong to someone reading it.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

According to reports, the officer sustained eight or nine shots. Page presumably continued to shoot at the officer point blank when he was down, because I can't imagine being shot that many times in a firefight with a handgun and still be standing

Didn't the chief say he's expected to recover?

Shot eight times, jeez.

So the shooter was a psychotic ex-Army Neo-Nazi. Huh. I am not as shocked as I thought I would be at that.

 

[Stet]

I got it, a little insensitive though. I think most Kirpan's (daggers) are ceremonial and are not removable from the sheath these days, well that's for the UK anyway as its illegal to carry a blade over 2".

It was mostly just a comment on the fact that even though most of the people in the temple were armed, maybe more weapons aren't really the solution to these problems.

 

[Zapages]

This speculation that he targeted the "wrong" group is really bothering me. It suggests it would have been understandable, i.e., "right," for him to target Muslims. There's this underlying expectation in the US that Muslims will be targeted domestically, and I get this awful feeling that there are many, many people out there who are waiting for it.

Actually on Saturday night at my local mosque... As our whole family was leaving, my Father heard some hooligan kids yelling racial slurs as they passed by the mosque in their car. My Father and bunch of others who heard the kids told the mosque officials and they said "God will protect us". My Father is frustrated about their lackadaisical approach, especially considering what recently happened.

On Topics: This is really sad for the whole South Asian community. Let them rest in peace.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Is anyone surprised that he had ties to neo nazis?

If you had asked me prior to my first trip to the Wisconsin State Fair, I would have said, "Yes."

After going and seeing a white supremacist banner being draped over a highway overpass, nope.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Ah so falsely inflated numbers. So why do liberals believe in the right to commit suicide, but blame the object used, as if it has a will of its own? Are you condeming those who have chosen to end their life when they use a gun?

Many people who attempt suicide want to live, and guns turn attempted suicides into actual suicides because of their lethal efficiency. Guns require less planning and less determined intent to cause death than any other method of suicide, allowing for more impulsive suicides that could perhaps have been averted.

See, for instance:

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/special..._troubling_record_of_suicide.html?cid=8301804

The Zurich University study found that suicides by firearm dropped sharply in countries – including Britain, Canada and Australia - where gun control legislation reduced the number of weapons kept at home.

...

Ajdacic-Gross says that between half and two-thirds of people who are unable to access their method of choice, will fall back on another.

 

[theignoramus]

Yea i keep seeing this and feel it has the same overtone. I think it's more from the fact that seeing people assume he made a mistake along with the sentiment of "Sikh's don't deserve that, they're really peaceful," makes it seem like it would've been understandable if he had done this at a mosque.

I don't know if it's subconscious or an honest mistake; but it feels wrong to someone reading it.

I cant help but pick up a sinister undertone when it's mentioned that Sikhs are so peaceful. As if to say they dont belong in the crosshairs but that other group does.

 

[Riposte]

Is this being referred to as a terrorist attack? Should it be?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It was mostly just a comment on the fact that even though most of the people in the temple were armed, maybe more weapons aren't really the solution to these problems.

They're mostly ceremonial/symbolic at this point.

Besides, I dunno if rushing a psycho wielding two hand guns is the appropriate solution at that point.

 

[bionic77]

This speculation that he targeted the "wrong" group is really bothering me. It suggests it would have been understandable, i.e., "right," for him to target Muslims. There's this underlying expectation in the US that Muslims will be targeted domestically, and I get this awful feeling that there are many, many people out there who are waiting for it.

If you were a Sikh though wouldn't that be easier to believe than to believe that there was a group of racist thugs that included you on their list of bad people just because you look different? Especially when you consider Sikhs left their own country to come here to escape that kind of bullshit.

I agree with you in general that that is a disturbing sentiment. Not so much from the Sikhs but from the media in general.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

It's sad that the two psychos massacring people are the focus, and not the rampant and generalized gun violence occurring all day and all night across the United States.

It's sad to know opinions like this exist in a world where it has been proven time and time again to be complete bullshit. Violence should not be fought with more violence. That's not how any advanced country should deal with the problem.

 

[Hindle]

Disgusting individual, the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

 

[bionic77]

Disgusting individual, the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

Why?

I don't think you can prevent this kind of thing from happening unless you want to live in a police state.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Actually on Saturday night at my local mosque... As our whole family was leaving, my Father heard some hooligan kids yelling racial slurs as they passed by the mosque in their car. My Father and bunch of others who heard the kids told the mosque officials and they said "God will protect us". My Father is frustrated about their lackadaisical approach, especially considering what recently happened.

What would your father have them do, employ a private security firm to watch over every entrance to the place 24/7? Whether some people wish to realize it or not, there is nothing short of a total restriction of freedoms that can guarantee safety.

 

[Steelrain]

Disgusting individual, the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

Eh, no.

 

[eznark]

Disgusting individual, the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

Like what?

 

[oneils]

Never heard of the Vinyl Solution?

*chokes* oh man...

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Never heard of the Vinyl Solution?

Oh. My. God.

Yes.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Disgusting individual, the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

More special protection than, say, Jews or Muslims, whom white supremacists also want to rid the country of?

 

[Interfectum]

the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

No.

 

[SniperHunter]

Cnn got pics of the suspect.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What would your father have them do, employ a private security firm to watch over every entrance to the place 24/7? Whether some people wish to realize it or not, there is nothing short of a total restriction of freedoms that can guarantee safety.

Self defense items help.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Cnn got pics of the suspect.

He looks like a fat Dave Cross.

 

[Zapages]

What would your father have them do, employ a private security firm to watch over every entrance to the place 24/7? Whether some people wish to realize it or not, there is nothing short of a total restriction of freedoms that can guarantee safety.

Nah dude, the evening events is only a few hours every weekend or couple hours a week. What usually happens in the previous years was that there was security guard present during those hours in the night... This year we don't have that.

 

[Hindle]

More special protection than, say, Jews or Muslims, whom white supremacists also want to rid the country of?

It always seems to be the Sikhs who get targeted, after the 7/7 attacks you saw them going around with shirts saying I am not a Muslim.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Do you even know what the gun laws in Chicago are/were? They were the equivalent of banning all sales of Nintendo DS within city limits, not videogames, just Nintendo DS. And you could also just go to Joliet and buy a DS legally there. Also, if you had owned a DS before the ban you were allowed to keep it.

I know that if I carry my gun from missouri to illinois I have to basically have it unloaded and locked with gun and ammunition in separate storage and I need a FOID card to carry any weapon for hunting. Pretty restricitive compared to missouri.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Disgusting individual, the Sikhs really need special protection imo.

Uh...

 

[Quackula]

I cant help but pick up a sinister undertone when it's mentioned that Sikhs are so peaceful. As if to say they dont belong in the crosshairs but that other group does.

(this is kinda in response to other, similar posts too btw)

The idea that this man went on a murderous rampage and didn't even actually go after the people he thought he as going after just makes the whole thing all the more senseless. Doesn't mean it would've been more 'acceptable' had these actually been Muslims.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

I know that if I carry my gun from missouri to illinois I have to basically have it unloaded and locked with gun and ammunition in separate storage and I need a FOID card to carry any weapon for hunting. Pretty restricitive compared to missouri.

Boy, that sure would make it hard to shoot someone.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

It always seems to be the Sikhs who get targeted, after the 7/7 attacks you saw them going around with shirts saying I am not a Muslim.

How are they mistaken for muslims? They're the guys with long hair under the headwrap/turbin. The religion is indian origin isn't it.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Many people who attempt suicide want to live, and guns turn attempted suicides into actual suicides because of their lethal efficiency. Guns require less planning and less determined intent to cause death than any other method of suicide, allowing for more impulsive suicides that could perhaps have been averted.

So you favor laws against people being able to commit suicide?