Unbelievable.
Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
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Unbelievable.
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/key-...or-intent-media-s-leading-games-brands/096590
For her to not know what a conflict of interest is, and is doing what she's doing, means either that school is bad or she is a bad student.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Oh man I stepped away for a few hours and this could not have gone any better.
This lady who is a 'corporate sponsored game critic' (we don't use game journalist for these people by default anymore) is trying to erase the things that only helped people derive their own opinions on the subject (articles hyping up Tomb Raider while having worked for SE).
Does she really think this helps?
These actions like the threat of lawsuit, actions that either directly or indirectly cost a writer a paying job only look like admissions of guilt.
Are we unfairly focusing on this person? ...... maybe, but when an opinion piece that made no direct assertions is threatened with legal action and costs someone a job .... well you are going to be a target.
This lady who is a 'corporate sponsored game critic' (we don't use game journalist for these people by default anymore) is trying to erase the things that only helped people derive their own opinions on the subject (articles hyping up Tomb Raider while having worked for SE).
Does she really think this helps?
These actions like the threat of lawsuit, actions that either directly or indirectly cost a writer a paying job only look like admissions of guilt.
Are we unfairly focusing on this person? ...... maybe, but when an opinion piece that made no direct assertions is threatened with legal action and costs someone a job .... well you are going to be a target.
Review the products she consulted on. No proof she consulted on that Tomb Raider.
Regardless, she shouldn't have reviewed a single Square Enix game
crazygambit
Member
This is just a good PR move on his part. How would it look if he kept it now? I don't believe for a second he truly cares that what he did was wrong. He's just sorry it blew up on his face.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
So I see she is trying to remove herself from the Internet.
If she would have confronted this head-on (or ignored it), it probably would have all blown over by now.
If she would have confronted this head-on (or ignored it), it probably would have all blown over by now.
Nihilistic Monk
Member
I've not seen much of that on the gaming forum side of GAF. It comes up from Journos constantly. Especially lately in light of all the recent hullabaloo's.
We are not Reddit. We have discussion here. Gaf threads are made up of contrasting option and debate. That's why it's good! Save that cliquey hivemind junk for a lesser forum.
TemplaerDude
Member
The fact that a Rab, a terrific writer, lost his job at Eurogamer because one woman is a hideous liar is so disgusting.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Good point. Still. As you said she shouldn't have reviewed a single SE game. I'll appolagise to her though.
I'd agree, the majority don't project themselves as investigative journalists, but their employment is representation of a company. If that company lacks strict guidelines to preserve objectivity, they shouldn't be surprised when integrity is openly challenged.
I don't think writers need to hide their love or enjoyment of video games, it only matters if they're speaking from an objective viewpoint of their employer or not.
pants
Member
Nah, Dave is good people. Good people make mistakes too. When pointed out to him, he reacted defensively like most humans do but when tempered heads cooled a little he admitted his mistake.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Honestly, everyone needs to settle down. We're talking about people who write up information about video games, not exactly Pulitzer material. I'm so tired of these witchhunts.
What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.
It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.
What this community (gamers in general, not just NeoGAF) is capable of when it picks up its pitchforks is so much worse than what this person deserves. It's a really ugly side of human nature that manifests itself far too frequently. Ms. Wainwright's punishment in the last 2 days certainly surpasses the crime.
It's always the same. People get so huffy puffy mad about something that in the grand scheme of things is so goddamn trivial. Step outside, breathe some air, and realize there is so much more to life than getting angry about something so trivial.
theSlacker
Member
This. Really dumb of her to remove it from that page since it is another action that will blow this all up even more.
Hot Coldman
Banned
It's funny how I was wondering only a week ago, "I wonder what Rab's up to lately?".
Then, this. :lol
Then, this. :lol
Also a terrible portrayal of journalistic sense and ethics is the role she played in inhibiting another writer's right to free speech via threats.
Which Rab is understandably pissed about:
I think SE are more likely to be the threat here, it could have been implied that SE might pull ads from Eurogamer in light of this (possibly inferred by MCV).
This is probably where anyone is likely to hear Rab's take on it.
http://oran-mor.co.uk/whats-on/oran-war-sold-out/?eID=2755
This is probably where anyone is likely to hear Rab's take on it.
http://oran-mor.co.uk/whats-on/oran-war-sold-out/?eID=2755
Snowden's Secret
Banned
If we don't grab the pitchforks, things will never change.
At the very worst, "journalists" will at least pretend not to do these things anymore, which is a step up.
I don't see a problem with it as long as you disclose that you have consulted with SE before. Then if people think you are biased they can evaluate the review accordingly.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Yeah, ignoring it would have made it no news and people would have forgotten about it by the end the day.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Wow.
That review was deleted, btw. Go figure.
Um, no?
Also no one is really that mad, people are sorta in awe at this moment. Telling people to stop being passionate never works, this thread will get more pages and posts long after you've told people to calm down.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Holy shit @ thread title! :lol
This is a forum about games, if people being interested or worked up over something that has to do with gaming annoys you then why come to a gaming forum?
Also whether directly or indirectly she has cost a respected member of the gaming community a paying job.
How exactly has she been punished? ............ people pointing out things she has done or is trying to cover / delete?
Seems you maybe need to take some of your own advice, stop getting so mad and take a walk outside.
SolidSnakex
Member
Delete the internet.
You would describe yourself as passionate about this? Would anyone other than the people directly involved?
I tend to be on friendly terms with PR people without going to Hawaii. I see them a lot. They're typically very nice, and a lot of them are helpful and good at their jobs. I'm also pretty candid with them and don't hide what I think about a game until it's review time, which a lot of them seem to appreciate. I've given a lot of very low scores and only had one instance where a publisher bitched about it (none of which was EA, by the way, or Capcom).
It's hard to explain how these events work, mentally speaking, but I am a hundred percent serious when I say they are more often a pain in the ass than anything else. And the place I'm playing a game hasn't once had an impact on how I felt about it. It didn't make Dragon's Dogma better, it didn't make Lost Planet 2 better. In fact, events like this and their regimented schedules tend to stress me out more than local events. I have a ton of shit to get done in a very compact schedule.
I understand why people think these trips make press more likely to like things, but if you look at the coverage coming out of them, that influence is virtually never borne out. At least not while I've been active in the press. I don't want to write off the possibility that someone could be influenced, but I've never seen it happen. I think people are much more likely to be led astray or into hyberbole by their enthusiasm for specific things, which is not going to go away. It's an opinion driven industry. Opinions owe as large a part to enthusiasm as anything.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Had his Eurogamer article amended, said "well, not doing any more articles then". They crossed his line, although he doesn't blame them for being cautious in the face of possible legal action.
https://twitter.com/robertflorence
If you've got an issue about folks on a games forum discussing a rapidly escalating story on games journalism, this probably isn't the thread for you.
pants
Member
Might as well double down, there isnt a recovery from this.
Calm down. Apply the same logic to your post.
I agree with you, but everyone is going to quote you and tell you how you are wrong and that they aren't taking this too seriously. Ignoring the 20 page thread or all the digging everyone has done trying to defame someone I have never heard of before today.
What do consultants usually do for a publisher/developer? Is it just a glorified focus-test or something more?
I have interest in this subject yes, and others have interest or sometimes even passion. Telling people to stop caring and that there are more important things in life is sorta patronizing to be honest.
My only concern is that some people seem to be inferring that she made the complaint that got the article pulled. When dealing with corporate, it's usually not that clear cut, and making assumptions is a dangerous game.
The fact we have 22+ pages in this thread speaks loudly that the industry (or those that follow the industry, at least) are very passionate about integrity in games ... writing ... stuff. Holy hell, what do we call this, now, if not journalism?
I think you're over-estimating its importance, this place largely runs on the echo chamber effect
I can't respect a medium that has a press that masquerades as PR. Games can be pretty awesome and deserve more than the current "journalism".
I think he walked away, but essentially felt forced to after Eurogamer was put in a basically impossible situation. He can't remain there after his opinions are censored. So in essence Wainwright and co. forced him out through their actions.
FlutterPuffs
Member
Guys, guys.
Is she going to delete NeoGAF next?
Oh fuck.
Is she going to delete NeoGAF next?
Oh fuck.
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