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[Bobby Roberts]

Box Office.

And general reception. Basically, they were expecting somewhere around 300. It limped to 200, and people were lukewarm at best.

He wasn't quite FIRED. The sequel just sorta... evaporated.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

A lot of that was WB also expecting it would recoup for them the gargantuan amount of money that they fucking wasted trying to get Superman off the ground with dickheads like Tim Burton. Years and years of spending millions upon millions while not knowing what the fuck they were doing.

 

[Simo]

The biggest problem with Returns is conceptual. They never came up with a good enough reason for him to leave.

If this is a sequel to Superman II (and it was - specifically, a sequel to a director's cut of Superman II that didn't even exist when they made the movie) then THAT Superman wouldn't leave Earth for 5 years to visit Krypton. He wouldn't leave period. His last words to the President are "I won't let you down again" or something along those lines.

And then he apparently up and bounced to outer-space to go look at a planet he knows DAMN WELL exploded.

It's like when Alien 3 decided to start with an Egg in a place an egg couldn't possibly have been at the end of ALIENS. It fundamentally breaks the movie before it begins. It prompts an audience to make a huge leap just to START the movie. You shouldn't start your film asking everyone in the audience to suspend more disbelief than Superman himself could lift.

I don't know, the way I took it is that jumping off Superman II was a good enough reason for Superman to leave. He just fought and barely survived against 3 surviving Kryptonians and shortly after Krypton is discovered by scientists and there exists the possibility of more survivors who could be like Superman or like Zod.

Wasn't one of the sequel premises exploring the idea that more Kryptonians or Brainiac appear and settle on New Krypton as it continued to grow off of Earth?

 

[Bobby Roberts]

A lot of that was WB also expecting it would recoup for them the gargantuan amount of money that they fucking wasted trying to get Superman off the ground with dickheads like Tim Burton. Years and years of spending millions upon millions while not knowing what the fuck they were doing.

If I remember correctly, Superman Returns was over 60mil in the hole BEFORE Singer even got hired.

The reported budget for Superman Returns was right around 200. Add in the 60mil from the previous incarnations. Then add another 50mil for marketing. And then, once the reciepts start coming in, note HOW Singer spent the money you gave him. He spent a mil to grow a cornfield in Australia, for scenes that didn't even do anything, and were largely cut. He spent 10 mil for an opening sequence that was COMPLETELY cut and replaced with 2 paragraphs on a title card.

I don't know, the way I took it is that jumping off Superman II was a good enough reason for Superman to leave. He just fought and barely survived against 3 surviving Kryptonians and shortly after Krypton is discovered by scientists and there exists the possibility of more survivors who could be like Superman or like Zod.

Nah. He knows who Zod is, and knows why he wouldn't have died in Krypton's explosion. He knows his dad jailed him and sent him to the Phantom Zone. He doesn't think that there might be other Kryptonians out there. The entire point of Superman II is that he's finally accepted who he is, what he's there for. To then turn around within a month or so of telling the President "I'll never let you down" to leave for five years to examine the dusted remains of a planet he KNOWS exploded?

They never cracked that part of the script, and then they made it even harder on themselves by introducing a kid.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Cutting the Krypton sequence from Returns really was dumb as shit.

 

[Reiko]

A lot of that was WB also expecting it would recoup for them the gargantuan amount of money that they fucking wasted trying to get Superman off the ground with dickheads like Tim Burton. Years and years of spending millions upon millions while not knowing what the fuck they were doing.

Wasn't Supes supposed to fight a giant spider?

 

[Simo]

Wasn't Supes supposed to fight a giant spider?

and Brainiac...and Doomsday but Superman wasn't allowed to fly and had polar bears guarding the Fortress of Solitude.

I used to have a crap ton of concept art for the Burton-McG/Ratner attempts but that was on my old HD. Needless to say it all looked like shit save for how Krypton looked.

 

[ReiGun]

Kevin Smith on Superman Lives

Was going to be a clusterfuck. The script is online if you wanna take a look.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Never forget:

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Kevin Smith on Superman Lives

Was going to be a clusterfuck. The script is online if you wanna take a look.

That script is interesting. When it first leaked, people were like "Man, this woulda been a great Superman movie!"

Then he went and talked about it at Comic-Con and on a DVD, and now people read the script and go "What a piece of shit this would have been!"

What's funny is that JJ Abrams' "Fly By" script is probably worse, overall. Or maybe not "worse" but definitely not any kind of Superman we'd seen before. Fan backlash murdered that one (along with McG being unable to fly) but now I wonder if the movie would have been accepted considering JJ ended up proving he can serve up familiar-ish things in new/interesting ways that go over with an audience.

Then again - Lex Luthor, Kryptonian FBI agent vs a Superman whos powers come directly from the suit, which he hides in a closet until he needs it, at which point it sproings out of a can and wraps itself around him, Krypton never explodes, Turtle people, etc...

 

[Reiko]

Never forget:

This is just wrong.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That script is interesting. When it first leaked, people were like "Man, this woulda been a great Superman movie!"

Then he went and talked about it at Comic-Con and on a DVD, and now people read the script and go "What a piece of shit this would have been!"

What's funny is that JJ Abrams' "Fly By" script is probably worse, overall. Or maybe not "worse" but definitely not any kind of Superman we'd seen before. Fan backlash murdered that one (along with McG being unable to fly) but now I wonder if the movie would have been accepted considering JJ ended up proving he can serve up familiar-ish things in new/interesting ways that go over with an audience.

Then again - Lex Luthor, Kryptonian FBI agent vs a Superman whos powers come directly from the suit, which he hides in a closet until he needs it, at which point it sproings out of a can and wraps itself around him, Krypton never explodes, Turtle people, etc...

...

I want to see/read this.

 

[Reiko]

Funny how that Giant Spider still ended up in Wild Wild West. And the movie still bombed.

 

[G-Fex]

Yep. Total change in tone. As he described it "Wrath of Kahn" stuff. Especially

Spoiler

Brainiac entering Jason's body, ageing him into his late 20's giving him Superpowers and having SUperman beat the living shit out of his own son.

Fucked up but hey... None of us have much love for that kid.

I hated when he described his sequel, annoyed me greatly.

How about making a good movie first you doofus.

 

[bangai-o]

i like the airplane part in the last Superman movie!

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

...

I want to see/read this.

I have Abrams' Superman script..

 

[Bobby Roberts]

...

I want to see/read this.

Here's the review by Drew McWeeny that pretty much killed most of the project's forward progression.

And here's the first draft, dated July 26th, 2002.

 

[teiresias]

Singer also turned Superman into a moron (the airplane being the prime example) - apparently forgetting he had a first rate Kryptonian education in the space ship on the way to earth.

 

[Sanjuro]

Never forget:

I wish all fruit roll-ups came like that.

 

[TrumanBurbank]

With the different and minor lack of footage differentiating the comic con trailer and the latest one, it's pretty difficult to put it together. BUT if you use the actual comic con trailer as a base (audio and even for visual cues to an extent), instead of the journey to the line track, then it does kind of work out to an extent.

For instance, the first 35 seconds in the one below I made are entirely there because of the lack of footage. But most of the rest of it gets on cue after some fiddeling around with the timing:

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b68k3VPGswY#t=38s

That was amazing.
This is why the internet is amazing people.

 

[Router]

I don't remember Singer saying anything about Brainiac taking over the kid's body and aging him. I do know that he said he would kill the kid in the sequel though and have Supes go all Wrath of Khan. I don't know where that other weird shit came from.

Found Singers ideas for his "Man of Steel" film.
http://screenrant.com/bryan-singer-superman-man-steel-brainiac-storyline-rob-91933/

For those interested, here are the main plot points...

Singer’s The Man of Steel takes place several years after Superman Returns where people are used to having Supes back.

New Krypton, Lex Luthor’s growing island that Superman tossed into space has grown into a speherical moon that the people of Earth can see.

The new moon attracts attention of alien visitors however, and a big alien ship arrives.

Superman flies up to check it out. It carries another Kryptonian survivor. Party time.

Clark takes his newfound friend on a tour of Earth but this other Kryptonian is puzzled as to why Superman hasn’t used his powers to fix the world of its problems (hunger, war, etc.). I kind of like this guy.

Superman explains the rule of not interfering with development of Earth.

The visitor disagrees and aims to use his powers to “fix” the world with his first mission being to intervene in a feud between two third world countries. War breaks out but the Kryptonian takes things into his own hands and ends it quickly by annihilating their armies.

For his second opening act, the new alien visitor lays down rules for the entire world, saying that there will be no more wars or he will deal with the aggressor country.

The big modern societies of the world are in favor of this, applauding the new “hero” who is now willing to share advanced tech and use his powers to end the world’s other problems. Those who disagree feel the wrath.

As a result, Earth’s familiar Kryptonian, Superman, has been outcasted since he didn’t do this earlier and kept advanced technology from them.

Suspicious of the other Kryptonian, Supes examines the ship to find it loaded with clones of his new friend.

Using the ship’s computers, he find out this other Kryptonian and clones are actually an artificial intelligence which has grown on its own since Krypton has destroyed. Its/His name: Brainiac.
Over the years since Kryptonian’s explosive end, Brainiac has travelled from world to world, “fixing” them and then destroying them and Earth is his new target. It was Brainiac who actually destroyed Krypton.

Superman tries to let the world’s leaders know and ends up battling Brainiac who can continue to resurrect into other clone bodies in stasis.

Eventually, the Man of Steel takes down the ship but Brainiac transfers his consciousness into Superman’s kid. Remember him?

You can imagine the moral dilemma here. Earth or the Brainiac-infused boy? In the end, young Jason White is killed by his red-caped dad in order to save the world and fans who didn’t like the idea of Superman and Lois having a baby rejoice. Brainiac plus the removal of the kid storyline sounds like a good deal. I wonder how Lois takes that? James Marsden’s Richard White character probably isn’t too sad…

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Never forget:

Didn't this turn out to be a kitbashed toy that had Cage's head photoshopped onto it?

 

[MisterHero]

Yep. Total change in tone. As he described it "Wrath of Kahn" stuff. Especially

Spoiler

Brainiac entering Jason's body, ageing him into his late 20's giving him Superpowers and having SUperman beat the living shit out of his own son.

Fucked up but hey... None of us have much love for that kid.

It's sorta based on an intense comic storyline.

Spoiler

Superman had to save Pete Ross/Lana Lang's son from Brainiac, who tried to do what what Singer described regarding Jason. At the time, Brainiac was possessing Doomsday's body but Doomsday was fighting back. This was all while some other disastrous event was happening, I don't remember though.

 

[nomis]

Never forget:

Wish I could forget.

 

[Router]

Never forget:

NIGHTMARE FUEL.

 

[G-Fex]

That movie would've been better than Returns.

Maybe superman would've actually fought someone.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

That begs the question of what they're going to do for the sequel. Or is every villain going to come down to tests of physical strength? Because that's essentially what I know of Darkseid and Doomsday. Yet we're getting that with Zod.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

That begs the question of what they're going to do for the sequel. Or is every villain going to come down to tests of physical strength? Because that's essentially what I know of Darkseid and Doomsday. Yet we're getting that with Zod.

Man, let's wait until the movie comes out first before we start sweating whatever might happen in the sequel?

I mean, honestly, best case scenario, Justice League is the sequel.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Man, let's wait until the movie comes out first before we start sweating whatever might happen in the sequel?

I mean, honestly, best case scenario, Justice League is the sequel.

I'm not sweating, just pondering. And holy shit do I hope that Justice League bullshit falls apart. Let Superman have at least more than one film before they start shoe-horning all these assholes together.

 

[ReiGun]

That begs the question of what they're going to do for the sequel. Or is every villain going to come down to tests of physical strength? Because that's essentially what I know of Darkseid and Doomsday. Yet we're getting that with Zod.

Well, we've already talked in the thread about how Lex could be brought in. It would also mirror what Nolan did with Batman: bringing in the most recognizable villain in the second movie.

Brainiac would be another good choice.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I'm not sweating, just pondering. And holy shit do I hope that Justice League bullshit falls apart. Let Superman have at least more than one film before they start shoe-horning all these assholes together.

That's the path they're on. If Man of Steel does well (and it appears people really would like it to do well, which is half the battle) then Justice League is full speed ahead.

people have mentioned they'd rather a World's Finest movie before it got to Justice League, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

Which reminds me - Andrew Kevin Walker (Seven) wrote a script for a World's Finest movie in the 90s, didn't he? That was how they were going to relaunch both characters at one point. Batman vs. Superman.

 

[MisterHero]

Michael Keaton Batman and the Justice League were going to appear in Tim Burton's Superman. Christopher Reeve was also supposed to appear for some reason.

Maybe Burton losing Batman 3/4 was the best thing to happen for everyone.

 

[RealDeadOne]

That begs the question of what they're going to do for the sequel. Or is every villain going to come down to tests of physical strength? Because that's essentially what I know of Darkseid and Doomsday. Yet we're getting that with Zod.

Luthor is pretty obvious. The version of Brainiac from the New 52 Action Comics would work well, too. Kryptonite Man, Bizarro, Metallo would be cool.

Parasite could work for a film as well.

 

[Tesseract]

any chance supes will get his ass kicked and lose? roll credits.

i'm tired of watching goku save the day.

 

[ReiGun]

We probably would have gotten World's Finest if it weren't for the Avengers. Now WB/DC wants to strengthen all their superhero brands.

As someone who likes DC characters beyond just Bats and Supes, I love it. I can see why others would be disappointed though.

 

[RealDeadOne]

We probably would have gotten World's Finest if it weren't for the Avengers. Now WB/DC wants to strengthen all their superhero brands.

As someone who likes DC characters beyond just Bats and Supes, I love it. I can see why others would be disappointed though.

I really wonder if they're gonna try to give the rest of the major DC heroes the "Nolan" treatment like they seem to be doing with Superman.

That tone is what's set the Batman films apart from the Marvel Cinematic Universe so far so they'd want to hang onto it, but at the same time... what complex themes are there to explore in a Flash movie? Do we really wanna see Green Lantern with muted colors?

I'm curious to see what direction they take after Man of Steel. The only thing I know I wanna see is a 300-style Wonder Woman movie.

 

[nomis]

I really wonder if they're gonna try to give the rest of the major DC heroes the "Nolan" treatment like they seem to be doing with Superman.

That tone is what's set the Batman films apart from the Marvel Cinematic Universe so far so they'd want to hang onto it, but at the same time... what complex themes are there to explore in a Flash movie? Do we really wanna see Green Lantern with muted colors?

I'm curious to see what direction they take after Man of Steel. The only thing I know I wanna see is a 300-style Wonder Woman movie.

A Green Lantern with film grain and any kind of restricted color palette would look better than the one we got already.

EDIT: I guess you could say it was restricted in color... it was orange and blue contrast... featuring GREEN THINGS.

 

[boinx]

I'm curious to see what direction they take after Man of Steel. The only thing I know I wanna see is a 300-style Wonder Woman movie.

I agree with this. I hope they make an R-rated WW movie adapting the current Azzarello comics but yeah that won't happen..

 

[ReiGun]

I really wonder if they're gonna try to give the rest of the major DC heroes the "Nolan" treatment like they seem to be doing with Superman.

That tone is what's set the Batman films apart from the Marvel Cinematic Universe so far so they'd want to hang onto it, but at the same time... what complex themes are there to explore in a Flash movie? Do we really wanna see Green Lantern with muted colors?

I'm curious to see what direction they take after Man of Steel. The only thing I know I wanna see is a 300-style Wonder Woman movie.

I think you can get a serious tone with the other characters. Maybe not full on "Nolan," but I think Man of Steel will show how to package the more fantastic elements of the universe along with a serious tone and exploration of themes relevant to the characters.

With Wonder Woman, you could explore the culture shock of leaving Paradise Island, and see how she makes this decision to become an ambassador and fight for peace in man's world (after the big 300-style battle, of course).

Green Lantern should have been a big space opera/cop movie. Exploring the idea of will and fear was a good start, but there was too many poorly executed ideas going on. That movie is a great example of what happens when you don't embrace what works about a particular character. Hopefully, they get it right next time.

Flash...yeah. I don't know either. Maybe Flash is where they should try to be a little more like Marvel.

Aquaman would be all about his responsibilities to the land and the sea. John's version is a great place to start: he is the rightful king of Atlantis, but would rather live on land. He feels no real connection to Atlantis, but can't really ignore it. I think there's a movie in there. Right?...Right? (Aquaman will never get his own movie. :/ )

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That begs the question of what they're going to do for the sequel. Or is every villain going to come down to tests of physical strength? Because that's essentially what I know of Darkseid and Doomsday. Yet we're getting that with Zod.

I kinda wanted to see Doomsday vs. Superman. Doomsday beating Superman to death would have been awesome.

But I have a feeling we'd never see that here. Sequel will almost definitely use Lex Luthor, I think.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Green Lantern should have been a big space opera/cop movie. Exploring the idea of will and fear was a good start, but there was too many poorly executed ideas going on. That movie is a great example of what happens when you don't embrace what works about a particular character. Hopefully, they get it right next time.

The biggest problem w/ Green Lantern was choosing Hal Jordan. Because he's an unrepentant fucking dick. And they captured that BEAUTIFULLY in the film. He's a total asshole, and you just can't like him.

This was my review - short version: It's a film that chose poorly when it chose a hero, and wasted a lot of time trying to get you to give a shit about a guy (Hal) who obviously doesn't care about the responsibility he's given. That major mistake makes the rest of the movie way hollow.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Green Lantern should have been a big space opera/cop movie. Exploring the idea of will and fear was a good start, but there was too many poorly executed ideas going on. That movie is a great example of what happens when you don't embrace what works about a particular character. Hopefully, they get it right next time.

Man, imagine if Green Lantern was like... Training Day/Lethal Weapon set in space with superpowers.

They should have hired Shane Black.

The biggest problem w/ Green Lantern was choosing Hal Jordan. Because he's an unrepentant fucking dick. And they captured that BEAUTIFULLY in the film. He's a total asshole, and you just can't like him.

This was my review - short version: It's a film that chose poorly when it chose a hero, and wasted a lot of time trying to get you to give a shit about a guy (Hal) who obviously doesn't care about the responsibility he's given. That major mistake makes the rest of the movie way hollow.

I'm not familiar at all with Green Lantern comics... I don't see why they couldn't have just written Hal Jordan to be better. I did like him, but I think that might be down to Reynolds just being a pretty charismatic/likable guy, and not Hal the character.

 

[boinx]

I kinda wanted to see Doomsday vs. Superman. Doomsday beating Superman to death would have been awesome.

But I have a feeling we'd never see that here. Sequel will almost definitely use Lex Luthor, I think.

Sequel according to rumors would be using Brainiac..

 

[RealDeadOne]

Green Lantern was too caught up trying to be DC's Iron Man with Hal, and it put the cool Geoff Johns stuff off to the side. If they had embraced all of that it could have been great, even with Hal instead of Guy or John.

Hopefully if they ever reboot they look at Green Lantern TAS for inspiration because it is a very well done version of GL's recent mythology.

 

[ReiGun]

The biggest problem w/ Green Lantern was choosing Hal Jordan. Because he's an unrepentant fucking dick. And they captured that BEAUTIFULLY in the film. He's a total asshole, and you just can't like him.

This was my review - short version: It's a film that chose poorly when it chose a hero, and wasted a lot of time trying to get you to give a shit about a guy (Hal) who obviously doesn't care about the responsibility he's given. That major mistake makes the rest of the movie way hollow.

Agreed. That got the "Hal is a dick" part completely right, but didn't show anything that made him a hero. He spends the whole movie doubting himself (he quits training after like 20 minutes) and being an ass (first act after getting his ring is practically killing 3 guys who were right to be mad at him), but doesn't act particularly noble or heroic at any point. He just beats Parallax then...yay! Everyone loves him.

The movie needed scenes of Hal doing...anything that demonstrates that he's actually a decent person.

Man, imagine if Green Lantern was like... Training Day/Lethal Weapon set in space with superpowers.

They should have hired Shane Black.

I'm not familiar at all with Green Lantern comics... I don't see why they couldn't have just written Hal Jordan to be better. I did like him, but I think that might be down to Reynolds just being a pretty charismatic/likable guy, and not Hal the character.

They got all of Hal's poor qualities (that he's a dick) and none of his good ones (namely, his courage, which is hilarious cause that's the whole point of the character).

 

[greendomo's ghost]

The biggest problem w/ Green Lantern was choosing Hal Jordan. Because he's an unrepentant fucking dick. And they captured that BEAUTIFULLY in the film. He's a total asshole, and you just can't like him.

This was my review - short version: It's a film that chose poorly when it chose a hero, and wasted a lot of time trying to get you to give a shit about a guy (Hal) who obviously doesn't care about the responsibility he's given. That major mistake makes the rest of the movie way hollow.

This is BS. Go watch GLTAS to see Hal Jordans character done right. The show is a million times better than the movie, but sadly the movie was such a trainwreck that a second season of GLTAS is highly unlikely.

Hal Jordan is a great character, when done right. The problem was Ryan Reynolds was miscast, and then they rewrote Hal Jordan to be a mopey version of Tony Stark, without the wit or the success.

 

[nomis]

They got all of Hal's poor qualities (that he's a dick) and none of his good ones (namely, his courage, which is hilarious cause that's the whole point of the character).

But they showed his courage cause he fought guys, yo.

 

[ReiGun]

But they showed his courage cause he fought guys, yo.

When Blake Lively has to tell you to stop being a little chicken shit, you lose all claims to having courage.

 

[RealDeadOne]

Honestly I don't give that much of a crap about Aquaman except for the most recent run but I hope they make a movie just for Black Manta on the big screen

 

[Rice-Eater]

Found Singers ideas for his "Man of Steel" film.
http://screenrant.com/bryan-singer-superman-man-steel-brainiac-storyline-rob-91933/

For those interested, here are the main plot points...

That actually sounds pretty good. Maybe I'm only saying that because I'm desperate for a super powerful villain. Zod doesn't count since this will the be the 2nd time we're getting him. Even before the reboot I had a feeling that Singer could redeem himself in the sequel. All he had to do was give the fans what they wanted, and this sounds like it would have been it.