Apex 2013 | FG Tournament: Smash, AE, UMvC3, KoF13, P4A, SCV, Pokémon | Jan. 11 - 13
- Thread starter Firestorm
- Start date
uo Lon:KOF13?CoffeeJanitor
Member
I like Brawl but Melee has a more interesting/fun to watch metagame, imo
Though items in Brawl have certainly added a flair to it that wasn't there previously
Though items in Brawl have certainly added a flair to it that wasn't there previously
Professor Beef
Banned
Looks like they're setting up for Virtua Fighter.
That match-up didn't look in her favor to me. In particular it seemed like she really had issues dealing with MK's whirlwind. Other than that sticking out to me I felt like it seemed a pretty even fight.
Karsticles
Member
You're equating wave dashing and L-canceling with infinites? Come on Kirblar, you have more brains than that.
I bought my Wii just for Brawl. I know what changed. To me, Smash Bros and Marvel go hand-in-hand.
I felt like items were way OP in Brawl. In Melee they were fun and good, but in Brawl they just made the game feel so...stupid. Except for Smash Balls. It was fun to see everyone drop whatever they're doing and try to break it.
Ultimadrago
Member
Damn! lol
L-Cancelling is the loss that stings the most. So many characters that could benefit from cancelling landing lag with a shield (Brawl Link is a travesty) and it's gone because of what exactly? That was something that's been around since Smash 64, how can anyone say it was an exploit? You literally found out about it in the How To Play demo if you let your screen idle at the start!
Wave Dashing was definitely an accident. A happy accident though.
Wave Dashing was definitely an accident. A happy accident though.
TDLink
Member
Salem effectively ran through a train of Meta-Knights with her. Maybe it was just him as a player. Maybe it was because it was unexpected to even see her there. Whatever the reason it still worked and proved the game had untapped potential competitively and definitely is not just essentially play meta-knight or lose.
Yeah, Melee is not much faster if you take away all those "advanced techniques". Competitively those will never go away so of course yes in reality it is faster. You can't possibly expect those glitches to come back in Smash 4 though, right? I mean maybe Sakurai will throw these Melee fans a bone but I wouldn't bet on it. Then what? Fragment the community again and still keep playing Melee? I know many players would say yes but I frankly find that sad. The game is already 11+ years old and it is going to continue to age. At some point you have to let go and adapt to what the series has evolved into.
Like I said before, the fragmentation it has caused this go around has led to Smash becoming a very insular community. Maybe y'all are happy with the (by other fighter standards) low player turnout and low amount of viewers you get on a regular basis on streams (which as far as I can tell is sub-200 almost always, ie, frankly laughable). Maybe you just don't care how popular the game is or isn't and are content with playing the same people again and again for literally decades.
Part of what is great about (at least other) Fighting games though is the constant influx of new players which leads to new tech, and new enjoyment as both a viewer, and I am sure, for the players as well.
Yeah, basically. I was a Ganondorf main. He went from being totally fine to the biggest fucking embarrassment in the game. Unforgivable. T_T
Him and Captain Falcon. Brawl Captain Falcon was just sad...
As a guy who loved his pocket Ganondorf/Falcon I feel your pain. Then again, Flame Choke...
But really, the biggest character related crime Brawl committed was whatever they did to The Knee™ and its active frames/hitbox.
SolarPowered
Member
Most of them actually do. BlazBlue is the slow spiritual successor to GG and it's speeding up because ASW has no choice as the franchise has lost steam. Lots of people complain about the pace of SFIV versus the older games, TONS of people don't like cinematics in SFIV or MvC3 compared to the classics in their respective series and anyone who has actually played Vampire Savior even semi-seriously prays to their lord and savior for speed matching VSav's if DSIV is concocted in Capcpom's laboratory.
That works for them and it is especially okay for them because the Capcom scene has many games to fall back on(much like the ASW scene or Namco folks). Smash folks don't have that so it all balances out in the end. Brawl has a scene, Melee has a scene and they have more options within that certain subgroup of fighters. There is nothing else out there quite like Melee(don't know about PSAS) or Brawl for that audience.
TDLink
Member
Yeah people do complain about it but the fact of the matter is people still move on and play the new games. Maybe those old games show up as side tournaments or for fun/the odd money match. The new iterations become the main games though and that is what new people in the scene start playing and what is streamed and played at majors and EVO.
I don't really see a reason the fighting game community can't just be one big community though. Yeah the Smash games are different from Capcom games but so are the Namco games and the Arc System games and whatever else. All those other games' communities still manage to get together and have fun together. Lots of players play multiple games from multiple companies as well. After seeing some of the typical FGC people getting hyped over those Brawl finals I am pretty confident that there could be a place in the FGC at large for Smash Bros as well.
On its own the Smash community is small and not really newcomer friendly. Without change it can't really expand from what it is. Again, maybe they are ok with that but I think it is a bit of a pity.
As mentioned earlier, the matchup might be even at best. He's 50/50 against Mew2King as they mentioned and yeah she has nothing to get past the Tornado at all.
Brawl has evolved a lot in 5 years. So has Melee in the past 5 and that's on top of being on the scene for 6. Melee is completely different from when I used to pay attention 5 years ago. Ken - the man we call the King of Smash - found that out as well when he came back for a tournament this year.
Again, don't justify slower speed by saying something is "unintended" when half it doesn't even qualify under that. It's a faster game. Period. I don't have to watch those fucking atrocious Meta Knight dittos in Melee. I was ready to turn off the stream if it weren't for Salem waiting in Grand Finals.
Brawl is its own game. It's not interesting in the least for me to watch, but the kids who got into the series with it seem to enjoy it. Good for them. People aren't going to play a game that's significantly less interesting for them to play and watch just because it's newer. Especially when the game they're still playing can develop so much.
The next smash game has to increase hitstun at the least to be "competitive". As it stands unless your move naturally combos, it's impossible to follow up and the game revolves around fishing for stray hits and that makes the game incredibly boring and affects the game speed. There's a reason why Melee is played with 4 stock and Brawl 3 stock.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
TDLink you're wrong.
PezDispenser
Banned
Not true at all.
TDLink
Member
Obviously that didn't matter since he won with ZSS against many meta-knights, not just M2K.
Yeah of course all games evolve but I have a real hard time believing that after 11 years there is really so much left to develop with the game. I agree Meta-Knight mirror matches are dumb and boring. My point is it is obvious Brawl doesn't have to be that way and it seems to me that had splintering not occurred with many players returning to Melee there is a good chance it wouldn't have. Maybe melee hadn't been fully figured out when Brawl came out, but I would posit it certainly has at this point and the sacrifice is that Brawl really hasn't been at all.
In regards to the bold, it literally happens all the time with every other series.
Karsticles
Member
In Melee, I used three characters:
Samus
Ganondorf
Bowser
In Brawl, I stopped playing the game.
I don't really agree that they are all that atrocious.
Last year we were forced to watch those horrible melee GF when there were hype brawl matches going on. Also when m2k pulled his pocket puff against hungrybox it was pretty bad. Generally I do agree that melee seems to have less camping involved, but lets not pretend it can't be lame when the players want it to.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
"I'd like to think..."
"Seems obvious that..."
"There's a good chance..."
"I don't know what I'm talking about at all but..."
Hallmarks of a good argument.
"Seems obvious that..."
"There's a good chance..."
"I don't know what I'm talking about at all but..."
Hallmarks of a good argument.
If a competitive game is good, it stays good no matter how long you play it. Brood War was being played competitively over a decade after it came out. Street Fighter 2 has been around longer than almost anything, and it was only recently that people in the US really discovered T. Hawk's potential.
Even if Melee has been around for much longer than Brawl, there's no reason to think that it's "solved".
Emperor Bohe
Member
BibleThump
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
TDLink is talking E-Sports and I don't like it.
WesternHeretic
Member
You know what this Melee/Brawl discussion reminds me of?
FUCKING THIRD STRIKE. Meta Knight mirror might as well be Chun Li mirror. All the arguments are exactly the same. ST players and 3rd strike players were two different communities just like Brawl/Melee.
You guys just need a SF4 to combine your asses... aka Smash 4.
FUCKING THIRD STRIKE. Meta Knight mirror might as well be Chun Li mirror. All the arguments are exactly the same. ST players and 3rd strike players were two different communities just like Brawl/Melee.
You guys just need a SF4 to combine your asses... aka Smash 4.
PezDispenser
Banned
To me that sounds like a shitty reason to do something, just because everybody else does it. I'm fine playing melee only and feel absolutely no pressure to conform to some ridiculous notion that everyone should always play the newest game in any series.
They're not always better you know. IIRC the Mortal Kombat community more or less ignored about a decade's worth of releases. Why? Because the games weren't as good. That seems like a much more rational reason to play or not play a game to me.
That's what I'm waiting for. That and the community to stop being such shit. Loved the level of play and excitement in both grand finals. But the Brawl commentary made me want to punch those two in the face and never let them near a camera and microphone again. Then I went to the thread for my local area on SmashBoards and saw the same stupid bullshit drama that made me stop reading it in the first place.
Ugh.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I missed the last part. Did Mew2King puke or jizz on anything?
Overall, I am incredibly happy after watching this tournament. I'm on some kind of Smash buzz high. Everyone is going home proclaiming this one of the most exciting majors ever. So many viewers. Captured the attention of more FGC community members than before. Pony fighting game will not be a major tournament at EVO. Melee has a strong shot of being the 8th game. M2K's best performance in recent memory. Mango bows out early. NESS counterpick. ZERO SUIT SAMUS.
It's like Christmas, New Years, and my birthday all came together at once. The stars aligned!
It's like Christmas, New Years, and my birthday all came together at once. The stars aligned!
You should feel bad for saying this (as should anyone else who does).
You and everyone else should know by now that it is more than just two techniques that got cut out of Brawl. Those two techniques wouldn't save Brawl either if they were implemented. Brawl has a huge laundry list of things Sakurai changed "just bcuz" when it was so perfect and right in Melee. Things casual players don't even care about, he changed.
Yeah, new game, new stuff blah blah blah but Sakurai didn't need to cut out or change things. He could have used all that time on that stuff to add onto the game. You know, evolve the mechanics. Instead, he chose to dick around with the engine and add tripping... oh and one tiny little gameplay mechanic called Footstooling (which amounts to nothing gained in comp. play, just annoyance).
Anyway, I don't care, Smash was hype and that's all that matters.
90TilInfinity
Member
Is this dude even apologetic for the nasty shit he does?
metalmonstar
Member
Man it sounds like Melee and Brawl finals were incredibly hype. I wish I could have watched the stream.
It is kind of funny how people are comparing the Brawl and Melee stream numbers.
I really think for pokemon tournaments they need to get those chess clocks. Players don't need more than 60 seconds to select their move. It is also a bit boring to watch "Communicating Please wait." I did enjoy the matches that I did see I can really tell the teams put a lot of thought into the construction of their team.
It is kind of funny how people are comparing the Brawl and Melee stream numbers.
I really think for pokemon tournaments they need to get those chess clocks. Players don't need more than 60 seconds to select their move. It is also a bit boring to watch "Communicating Please wait." I did enjoy the matches that I did see I can really tell the teams put a lot of thought into the construction of their team.
Ultimadrago
Member
8wayrun (I think)
Sweet. Jaxel is always great with uploading vids.
Professor Beef
Banned
His friends are.
You seem to have something against the guy, did he cum in your bed or something?
lol
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm trying to get all the grump out of my system because I have had to deal with people white knighting him whenever he would do something stupid. Anything involving bodily fluids, arriving at an airport 10 minutes before your flight because you didn't know about security, not doing research about Japan and money matches, etc.