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[MisterHero]

I think the focus on the core gamer will turn G4's fortunes around.

Nintendo's made some dumb choices but nothing so severe they can't recover from.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Hmm I think they'll turn this around eventually but I do hope they took notes this time since it seems like the 3ds launch didn't teach them much.....aside from having mario.

That also reminds me; much like the 3D features of the 3DS the tablet for the Wii U seems far more like Nintendo was making knee-jerk reactions towards then-current tech that was popular with consumers instead of slowly working on an idea other companies had rejected like the original Wii.

In both cases nobody cares about the hardware's defining feature and said-gimmick winds up sapping a ton of energy and resources which could have been better suited towards marking a more ideal product for 3rd parties to work with.

Don't forget the grey elephant in the room!

my childhood refuses to acknowledge the PS1 existed before Crash Bandicoot.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

In public maybe, but what about behind close doors?

Behind closed doors, they are playing 5 person Animal Crossing: Sweet Day.

 

[Portugeezer]

He is right about making games for other consoles and not Wii U... it's the 3DS.

 

[effzee]

The gamepad has zero traction. Nobody is talking or buzzing about it the way they were with the Wii motes, or hell, probably even the kinect. It's not blowing people away because it just looks like a cheaper version of the thing they've already been using for the past 2-3 years (android and iOS tablets!) and to make matters worse, Nintendo still hasn't showed that one "hook" game that shows everyone how and why the tablet can be a new gameplay experience. This was the biggest shocker for me. For better or worse, Nintendo's controllers have always been designed and geared around their biggest games. Mario 64 showed people why analog was important. Obviously Wii Sports for Wii. Even the Gamecube bean button layout was made with their own games in mind. But with Wii U they haven't grabbed anyone.

True.

And this more than anything about power, processing power, or ram power determines sales.

NintendoLand is awesome but unlike Wii Sports it doesn't sell the controller all that much. Nintendo's biggest failure asides from the horrible marketing, was not releasing any software that sells the idea of the tablet convincingly.

Now I love it. Anytime my wife hogs the tv with her Bravo channel reality shows or whatever I'm on the tablet playing my games. I also, thankfully, don't have the time to play a new game every single month nor do I desire one. Still working through the library of games I bought launch day. So the system is great for me. I'll still buy one of the other two systems since for the best sports games I'll have to, but for my Nintendo games the WiiU is amazing.

Hopefully they do turn it around, get some (any?) 3rd party support, and the next iterations of all their big games are amazing.

Also people need to realize there aren't just two outcomes for any console. It isn't either be #1 or out of business. Nintendo can make a profit and survive, even if they don't thrive this cycle.

 

[Hakai]

If everyone's opinions were discarded because they got something wrong one time in their life, there would be no more opinions.

I'm not discrediting him, but he obviously have a bias. I remember he said the 3ds was a fisher price toy, while the vita was a hi tech product, and this would make it the market leader, and he kept that even when people pointed out that the same could've been said about the DS and the PSP.

I think Nintendo is in a tough spot right now, but all this doom and gloom, is a jumping to conclusion reaction for me.

 

[Coolwhip]

So there's no middle ground between

"No one cares about it"
and
"taken the world by storm"

Indeed. That's a more general problem though. It's very likely the Wii U will steadily keep selling and in the end turning a good profit for Nintendo. The Wii was definately a one time phenomenon. So anyone expecting that again, is mental.

Playstation and Xbox are both supported by companies that are willing to lose billions and aimed at teens that want to shoot stuff, so I'm not sure why Nintendo is still being put in the same category.

 

[apesh1t]

You guys are forgetting what made the Wii a success the casual market. Most of the casual market has since moved on to smartphones and tablets for gaming. Those that are left want new graphics and Call of Duty/Madden. Even if Nintendo brings out a new Mario/Zelda/Etc. the only people that will buy it will be us, the hardcore gamer. Hell they brought out a Mario at launch and they are still failing. Nintendo came out too early and with too little amount of power. When the PS4/720 launches the causal gamer will choose those as their next consoles.

 

[JDSN]

Pulling a 3DS will be considerably harder than last time, but then again, Nintendo is like Jay Leno, motherfucker just wont quit.

 

[deadlast]

Nintendo needs to get on the gamepad redesign ASAP. They should make a WiiU version 2.0 with less tech in the the game pad and drop that price to 199. Then they could sell gangbusters as a second console/kid's console. IMO

 

[Goodlife]

Doesn't have any mainstream appeal. Nintendo needed something that the Wii Sports/Fit audience would take to again as "core" gamers aren't checking for mini-game collections. NintendoLand ain't it. They can't be one foot in the casual boat and one foot out again. It's not 2006 that won't work. If they don't get something that grabs that audience again immediately, they will move on to something else (and already have)

Where have those goalposts gone?

 

[big youth]

The "small amount of shareholders and inward looking" thing is dull.

If they were inward looking, the Wii and the DS would never had existed.

If they were inward looking, they would have released a more powerful DS and a more powerful Wii and that's it. No messing round with new innovations / gimmicks (take your pick)

The are 2 machines out there that are interested in having a graphical arms race.
I'm amazed people can criticize Nintendo for not being one of them, especially after the GC and the Wii.

Sessler might have been referring to a different business practice (underpowering their hardware?) but damn, good counter argument.

I often see people on this board saying Wii U might just reach GC levels, but to me that's worst case scenario. I see a brighter future. Wii is still a strong brand, I think the tablet controller will catch on to a degree (they need to make ads similar to Apple, showcasing Netflix, Apps, off TV play etc), TV ads should be more effective now that games are in HD (Zelda, Mario 3D, Smash Bros etc could all turn heads), Nintendo has a much larger output than the GC days, more IPs to draw from, etc.

 

[BadWolf]

If this gen is decided based on graphically capability, this will be the first time.

If the PS4 does sell the most systems (which is my prediction) it will only be coincidence that it is also the most powerful system.

The WiiU's problem power-wise isn't so much that it will be weaker than the PS4/720 but that all signs point to it be the same as the PS360, two rather old consoles.

The PS2 may have been the weaker console of its generation but it was still substantially more powerful than the previous generation consoles, same with the PS1.

The Wii even was two Gamecube's or whatever duct taped together. Its success is really just a thing of chance though, even Nintendo knew it couldn't replicate it (thus the shift of focus to core gamers with the WiiU).

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Where/when have any third parties said such a thing???

They might not make games for it but most praise the system.

Ding. It's not even worth their time to port over games to it. It doesn't matter how or what they say, they have clearly kicked it to the curb.

 

[Delio]

You guys are forgetting what made the Wii a success the casual market. Most of the casual market has since moved on to smartphones and tablets for gaming. Those that are left want new graphics and Call of Duty/Madden. Even if Nintendo brings out a new Mario/Zelda/Etc. the only people that will buy it will be us, the hardcore gamer. Hell they brought out a Mario at launch and they are still failing. Nintendo came out too early and with too little amount of power. When the PS4/720 launches the causal gamer will choose those as their next consoles.

Wait you just said the casual market moved onto smart phones and tablets. Why are they picking up the PS4/720 again?

 

[fvng]

If this gen is decided based on graphically capability, this will be the first time.

If the PS4 does sell the most systems (which is my prediction) it will only be coincidence that it is also the most powerful system.
.

I don't know what to tell you except they disregard the importance of graphical horsepower at their own peril. Every generation there are heated debates about which console has superior graphics. SNES/Genesis.. Saturn/PS1, Xbox/PS2, etc. That shit matters to people, even non enthusiast gamers.

Yes there isn't that leap from SD to HD like there was in the current gen but the average consumer can still tell if there has been a leap in graphics.

It's sad that there are people out there that defend Nintendo's poor decisions when deciding specs.

 

[zroid]

I almost wish they would give it up, and just focus on their handhelds. Imagine how amazing their output would be when all development resources were honed in on a single platform.

Not before releasing their new 3D Mario, Smash Bros., Bayonetta 2, X, etc. of course

 

[Tobor]

The gamepad has zero traction. Nobody is talking or buzzing about it the way they were with the Wii motes, or hell, probably even the kinect. It's not blowing people away because it just looks like a cheaper version of the thing they've already been using for the past 2-3 years (android and iOS tablets!) and to make matters worse, Nintendo still hasn't showed that one "hook" game that shows everyone how and why the tablet can be a new gameplay experience. This was the biggest shocker for me. For better or worse, Nintendo's controllers have always been designed and geared around their biggest games. Mario 64 showed people why analog was important. Obviously Wii Sports for Wii. Even the Gamecube bean button layout was made with their own games in mind. But with Wii U they haven't grabbed anyone.

That game won't ever happen, because the Gamepad isn't a compelling enough experience.

That should have been the red flag for Nintendo. When the best they could come up with was Nintendo Land, they should have shut it down and started over.

 

[Wiz]

Disagree with Sess on this one, only way Nintendo will exit the console race is if they're forced out. Wii U is doing bad, but not horrible enough (think VB levels) for them to can it and all future consoles.

 

[Maxim726X]

I know a lot of people brush this off as 'just another Nintendo is doomed' thread, but their market share has plummeted since the Wii U launched. That's not speculation, that's real money.

With the new consoles coming out, only a price cut can get people interested at this point. They can't prop up bad sales with the mobile market like they could in the past when they were the only real player. Those days are gone too.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Ding. It's not even worth their time to port over games to it. It doesn't matter how or what they say, they have clearly kicked it to the curb.

Tell that to the Criterion guy, Treyarch/Activision, Ubisoft, etc...

If what you said was true, there'd be no Watch_Dogs for the Wii U, no Assassin's Creed IV, no Need for Speed, etc...

 

[mclem]

If there is going to be another crash, it would be only for consoles. PCs and iOS would still thrive.

Well, iOS has its own problems that may not result in a crash but might poison the well for profitability on the system - or it could simply be fine, it's just all a bit early to speak on that with any confidence as yet.

 

[fvng]

I almost wish they would give it up, and just focus on their handhelds. Imagine how amazing their output would be when all development resources were honed in on a single platform.

Not before releasing their new 3D Mario, Smash Bros., Bayonetta 2, X, etc. of course

No. They shouldn't abandon their customers that invested in a WiiU, and not everyone enjoys mobile gaming.

 

[Kenka]

Keep being negative journalists, so I can get a price cut pls good games.

Fixed.

 

[JoeM86]

I know a lot of people brush this off as 'just another Nintendo is doomed' thread, but their market share has plummeted since the Wii U launched. That's not speculation, that's real money.

With the new consoles coming out, only a price cut can get people interested at this point. They can't prop up bad sales with the mobile market like they could in the past when they were the only real player. Those days are gone too.

Of course it has; it's a new console. They're not going to suddenly have 60% market share

 

[Maxim726X]

Wait you just said the casual market moved onto smart phones and tablets. Why are they picking up the PS4/720 again?

To play the yearly iterations of their favorite franchises, and as a conduit to stream and play physical media.

 

[teruterubozu]

Regardless of the hardware, Nintendo needs another Pokemon-like phenomenon that transcends any notion of tech specs.

 

[Coolwhip]

I know a lot of people brush this off as 'just another Nintendo is doomed' thread, but their market share has plummeted since the Wii U launched. That's not speculation, that's real money.

With the new consoles coming out, only a price cut can get people interested at this point. They can't prop up bad sales with the mobile market like they could in the past when they were the only real player. Those days are gone too.

You seem to forget the launch so far is poor. Of course it's not selling right now. Over time this can be fixed and the general audience won't go "This gaming console sold bad last year, so nope not buying it!". In a year we can talk.

 

[daninthemix]

I can't help but wonder if they wouldn't make a great deal more money by going multi-platform, releasing their core series on Sony/MS consoles and leaving the living room console space.

They can still remain in the handheld market, as well as focusing on multiplat software like Sega.

 

[javac]

I'll ask them when they announce the actual price Also when COD and AC and GTA, and Fifa, Madden, etc and all that break those cross-gen shackles and go next-gen only, people will move as they always have, with the console enjoying price drops as it goes and reaches more and more mass market. Thats the traditional market trajectory: the one Nintendo sacrificed for a short lived boom.

Your not wrong, but in the same breath I could replace all them titles with Metroid, starfox, Mario Kart, 3D Mario etc. Some of these titles are marketed to people interested I'm the titles you listed, some are aimed at a different audience, but either way both your list and mine contain mass market games that sell millions with ease and move hardware with or without ultra mega graphical effects.

 

[effzee]

You guys are forgetting what made the Wii a success the casual market. Most of the casual market has since moved on to smartphones and tablets for gaming. Those that are left want new graphics and Call of Duty/Madden. Even if Nintendo brings out a new Mario/Zelda/Etc. the only people that will buy it will be us, the hardcore gamer. Hell they brought out a Mario at launch and they are still failing. Nintendo came out too early and with too little amount of power. When the PS4/720 launches the causal gamer will choose those as their next consoles.

I think you fail to pin the casual gamers down properly. Its not that they have moved on never to return, its that they go with the next interesting thing. The Wii was a phenomenon because it was so different and it attracted people to gaming who never would have been interested. Exactly what Nintendo wanted to do.

If they have enticed the same casual market with something as new or interesting as the Wii then they would have flocked once again to the Nintendo system regardless of graphics or the power under the hood. Nintendo thought they had it again with the tablet control, but so far its proved to be nothing like the Wii.

NSMB-U would have sold tons more had the casual market been captured again.

 

[zroid]

That game won't ever happen, because the Gamepad isn't a compelling enough experience.

That should have been the red flag for Nintendo. When the best they could come up with was Nintendo Land, they should have shut it down and started over.

Nintendo Land is approximately ten thousand percent more fun and compelling than Wii Sports, though. It's just a shame it's so hard to convey that to the public straightforwardly.

 

[GoddyofAus]

Disagree with Sess on this one, only way Nintendo will exit the console race is if they're forced out. Wii U is doing bad, but not horrible enough (think VB levels) for them to can it and all future consoles.

That is sortof exactly what he said at the end "The decision is going to be made for them."

 

[Maxim726X]

Of course it has; it's a new console. They're not going to suddenly have 60% market share

I'm sorry... I didn't mean market share, I meant market capitalization.

 

[Kouriozan]

So Sony should go 3rd party because PS3 bombed at launch too?
Well, if everyone say this enough time it might become true, right?

 

[Alcotholic]

You guys are forgetting what made the Wii a success the casual market. Most of the casual market has since moved on to smartphones and tablets for gaming. Those that are left want new graphics and Call of Duty/Madden. Even if Nintendo brings out a new Mario/Zelda/Etc. the only people that will buy it will be us, the hardcore gamer. Hell they brought out a Mario at launch and they are still failing. Nintendo came out too early and with too little amount of power. When the PS4/720 launches the causal gamer will choose those as their next consoles.

This generation has been insane in terms of sales.
Looking at the sales now: PS3, 360 and Wii all have the highest sales numbers of any generation.
So I have a feeling that console sales will drop down since the casual public prefer iPhone/iPod games.

 

[Effect]

I don't know why people always say that Mario 3D is a system seller. It has always sold far far less than the NSMB series. And the Wii U started with one of those, which makes the Wii U situation seem really dire to me.

2D Mario I would agree sells more over time while 3D is more front loaded. 2D Mario is more popular but it's always tended to be released after the system it has appeared on in recent times (DS, Wii, and 3DS) after it had established itself. NSMB has usually had a significantly larger user base. Thus it sells more but I would argue it doesn't sell as well with the early adopter crowd. 3D Mario I would say does appeal more to that type of customer. Thus it would sells more systems early on while 2D Mario wouldn't.

 

[Kyoufu]

On the flip side, why do some people here think the mainstream is going to gobble up these 450-500 dollar systems with potentially 70 dollar games at launch. They can be wow'd by the pretty shiny graphics all they want, but when they see these prices and micro transaction bullshit some of these companies will be pulling, they could potentially think twice about buying. I think the PS3 and 720 will have at least a better launch than Wii U, but I don't think it's going to cut it.

I can't speak about the long-term future with any certainty, but I'm confident that both consoles will have successful launches provided they aren't $599.

Early adopters/gamers who are tired of this gen will gobble them up to ensure a successful holiday period.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Your not wrong, but in the same breath I could replace all them titles with Metroid, starfox, Mario Kart, 3D Mario etc. Some of these titles are marketed to people interested I'm the titles you listed, some are aimed at a different audience, but either way both your list and mine contain mass market games that sell millions with ease and move hardware with or without ultra mega graphical effects.

Metroid - not mass market
Starfox - not mass market
Mario Kart - mass market!
3D Mario - not as mass market as you'd think without the userbase already there. Gamecube and Sunshine calling.

Mario Kart is about the only one that would definitely move hardware, but even then we'd have said the same about a NSMB too.

 

[hwy_61]

Because I never paid attention to the industry until I discovered NeoGAF, how was it when GameCube was out? Were people down on Nintendo then? Reading some of the posts here, it seems like this negative backlash from the media happens every console cycle for Nintendo.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

I know sales of the Wii were probably dropping, but was there any sort of evidence such as motion-gaming dropping from public interest to suggest just making a more direct successor to the Wii which didn't revolve around a new gimmick wouldn't have been feasible?

 

[Andrew.]

Sess sez

Ninty will be fine.

Though they better drop some megas come E3.

 

[Ocaso]

I can't speak about the long-term future with any certainty, but I'm confident that both consoles will have successful launches provided they aren't $599.

Early adopters/gamers who are tired of this gen will gobble them up to ensure a successful holiday period.

Agreed, and given how apathetic people were at the PS3's price point, there's no real reason to believe they'll be priced that high at all. If anything we'll see very competitive pricing for both.

 

[Orayn]

Nintendo Land is approximately ten thousand percent more fun and compelling than Wii Sports, though. It's just a shame it's so hard to convey that to the public straightforwardly.

Seriously. It's a far, far more substantive game and a better demonstration of what you can do with a tablet controls than Wii sports was for motion. The problem is that unlike motion controls on the Wii, the general public is already accustomed to the concept of playing games on a tablet, so it doesn't have anywhere near the 'wow' factor.

 

[McLovin]

No way they're gonna full out fail but I think theirs a good chance they will be third. The Wii was unique and that made people look past the terrible hardware. To most people the Wii U is just more wii + an iPad with buttons, to the other casuals its just a tablet controller. It lost that "it" factor that made the Wii so successful. Their best chance is to hold out until their 1st party games hit, price drop, and pray the hardcore come back and save them(they most likely will).

 

[Tobor]

So Sony should go 3rd party because PS3 bombed at launch too?
Well, if everyone say this enough time it might become true, right?

You do realize why the scenarios are different, right?

The PS3 bombed at launch because of price. It was correctable over time by lowering the price and Sony never lost 3rd party support.

The Wii U is bombing worse at a much lower price point, and third parties are jumping ship.

 

[Delio]

I can't speak about the long-term future with any certainty, but I'm confident that both consoles will have successful launches provided they aren't $599.

Early adopters/gamers who are tired of this gen will gobble them up to ensure a successful holiday period.

The price thing is what will make or break Sony/MS here.

 

[MikeE21286]

I almost wish they would give it up, and just focus on their handhelds. Imagine how amazing their output would be when all development resources were honed in on a single platform.

Not before releasing their new 3D Mario, Smash Bros., Bayonetta 2, X, etc. of course

I would be so saddened to see Zelda only on handhelds.

 

[Coolwhip]

I know sales of the Wii were probably dropping, but was there any sort of evidence such as motion-gaming dropping from public interest to suggest just making a more direct successor to the Wii which didn't revolve around a new gimmick wouldn't have been feasible?

Personally I think a Wii 2 with better motion controls would have been a better idea.

 

[Maxim726X]

So Sony should go 3rd party because PS3 bombed at launch too?
Well, if everyone say this enough time it might become true, right?

Sony isn't exactly in a great position either. In fact, you could argue they're in a terrible position.

Sony's market cap is pathetic. They're in real trouble.

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/09/08/the-ten-year-decline-of-sony/

Personally I think a Wii 2 with better motion controls would have been a better idea.

No doubt. I guess they thought they could catch lightning in a bottle again.