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[The Elite]

DoctorWho, this is where I'm lost:



I'm trying to figure out how/why the Luteces were involved with Comstock. Who engineered the whole deal to 'buy' Anna?

I don't know if we got all the details or if I just missed some audio tapes. The impression I got is that Booker/Comstock met the female Lutece who developed the technology to make a floating city. After Columbia was created she then discovered the tears and could take glimpses into alternate universes. This eventually led Comstock to utilizing that tech to grab Anna from Booker's universe.

 

[The Elite]

What was the significance of the coin toss always resulting in 'heads'? Was it Booker being asked that question every time he repeated the same events?

I'm still trying to figure this out myself. It's possible the Luteces played through this hundreds of times until they got everything to work out and in all probabilities the coin toss turned out the same. I'd like to hear Ken explain it.

 

[jacksepticeye]

What was the significance of the coin toss always resulting in 'heads'? Was it Booker being asked that question every time he repeated the same events?

I so read that in the red letter media guys voice lol

I'm still trying to figure this out myself. It's possible the Luteces played through this hundreds of times until they got everything to work out and in all probabilities the coin toss turned out the same. I'd like to hear Ken explain it.

It really reminded me of LOST and Jacob with the man in black. you keep doing the same thing over and over and it always ends up the same

The Luteces are by far the most intriguing people in the game though. Can someone explain the whole twin/her brother thing though. My memory is foggy on it and I missed a lot of the talking about it

 

[Sn4ke_911]

I'm still trying to figure this out myself. It's possible the Luteces played through this hundreds of times until they got everything to work out and in all probabilities the coin toss turned out the same. I'd like to hear Ken explain it.

Same i'd really love to see an official explanation about the story and ending but i think Shawn said it won't happen ever.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Same i'd really love to see an official explanation about the story and ending but i think Shawn said it won't happen ever.

In a way it's both a blessing and a curse. You desperately want to know for sure what exactly is going on, and you also don't cos it fans the flames of great theories.
I felt the same about Shadow of the Colossus too but ambiguity is good sometimes

 

[remz]

What was the significance of the coin toss always resulting in 'heads'? Was it Booker being asked that question every time he repeated the same events?

I took it as a hint that they were manipulating quantum physics... and therefore probability. Like that they were always, or booker was always in the reality where the coin flip turns out to be heads. I wish I could remember the dialogue there. Alternative the guy's universe the coin comes out heads aand the girl's tails. Or something.

The lucetes via tears have control over probability, more or less... maybe

Same i'd really love to see an official explanation about the story and ending but i think Shawn said it won't happen ever.

Why would he have the crib if he didn't have a kid?

 

[iMax]

Ok, so there are two universes. BLUE and RED (I'm just using random Fringe colours).

My crazy read of things right now.

In Blue Universe (The Prophet's Timeline):

- Booker/Comstock is the hero of Wounded Knee/Boxer.
- Booker/Comstock accepts Baptism for his sins in the war.
- Booker/Comstock meets the Rosalind Lutece and Columbia is funded/created
- BOOKER/COMSTOCK NEVER HAS ANNA IN BLUE UNIVERSE because he took a completely different path with Columbia
- Rosalind Lutece discovers a way to create tears in time and space.
- Booker/Comstock unable to have children due to radiation poisoning from Lutece's technology asks that a tear be created to an alternate universe where a version of him has a child.
- Booker/Comstock offers to pay off RED UNIVERSE Booker's debts for the child.
- Booker/Comstock concocts a story about the child being born in seven days and positions her as a saviour.
- At some point Rosalind Lutece discovers her male counterpart from the other universe.

In Red Universe (The False Prophet's Timeline):

- Booker fights at Wounded Knee/Boxer.
- Booker seeks Baptism but ultimately turns down having his sins washed away.
- Booker has a child named Anna. Booker's wife eventually dies.
- Booker turns to a life of gambling.
- Booker is given the option by male Lutece to pay away his debts by giving up Anna.
- Booker changes his mind and tries to get Anna back. Anna's finger is cut in the process. The possible split of her existence between two universes is what gives her the unique abilities she has?
- Both Luteces, seeing what Booker/Comstock is going to do decide to drag Booker from Red Universe to Blue Universe to stop Booker/Comstock. They say that ultimately the chain of events set in motion will eliminate all Bookers/Comstocks in the multiverse. This will have the added benefit of eliminating all Anna/Elizabeths. Essentially they're dividing by 0.

I know the biggest point of contention will be whether or not Blue Universe Booker/Comstock had his own version of Anna. I think there is certainly room for the argument that he did. The timing seems off if he did though.

Go crazy and attack this theory.

The divide by 0. Elizabeth/Anna killing Comstock/Booker at the Baptism eliminates both possibilities. The one when he has the child and the one when creates Columbia. Thus eliminating their existence.

Spoiler

>> SPOILERS <<

>> SPOILERS <<

Spoiler

>> SPOILERS <<

This is it.

Awesome stuff, dude.

As for this (see above), I thought at the time when Booker met all the multiple Elizabeths

Spoiler

Multibeths?

, when he found out his true identity, the one holding his right hand said "Booker" (the one from Blue universe) — whilst the one holding his left hand said "Comstock", whom I'm assuming is the child you speak of, leaving our Elizabeth in the middle, just before he gets

Spoiler

'smothered'

.

 

[The Elite]

Where shit really gets crazy is when Elizabeth is talking about influencing the ghost/apparition of Lady Comstack. She is apparently a representation of alternate Comstock but influenced by the anger of Elizabeth.

I had difficulty wrapping my head around that.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

You never hear Anna cry through out the game, not really the best indicator that she's there or not. Though if Booker is there as Booker and not Comstock at that point in time then by extension Anna would have to be there since Booker goes on to have a child.

No i mean Anna as a baby, when she's in the crib where you have to give Lutece the baby she cries all the time or at least you hear baby noise which is not the case in the after-credit scene.

 

[jacksepticeye]

I got goosebumps when we saw how she lost her pinky.

 

[Magnus]

Where shit really gets crazy is when Elizabeth is talking about influencing the ghost/apparition of Lady Comstack. She is apparently a representation of alternate Comstock but influenced by the anger of Elizabeth.

I had difficulty wrapping my head around that.

It sounded like some really loose philosophizing and pseudo-science. I rolled my eyes a ton. I don't think there are hard and fast rules within the Bioshock universe for how all this shit works, so I'm losing faith in spending time trying to figure out how it works, myself. Haha.

Also, did anyone else notice Liz' pinky before the story brought it up? I never did, not once, lol.

 

[Angelus Errare]

No i mean Anna as a baby, when she's in the crib where you have to give Lutece the baby she cries all the time or at least you hear baby noise which is not the case in the after-credit scene.

I'm aware. You do realize every time Booker has that memory of him being in his office with Lucetes pounding on the door Anna is in the other room .

Again you never hear Anna cry throughout the game.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

It sounded like some really loose philosophizing and pseudo-science. I rolled my eyes a ton. I don't think there are hard and fast rules within the Bioshock universe for how all this shit works, so I'm losing faith in spending time trying to figure out how it works, myself. Haha.

Also, did anyone else notice Liz' pinky before the story brought it up? I never did, not once, lol.

Eh there is a reason why they talked 4 month about the ending.

Yes, the first time we saw a new build of Infinite at the VGA's 2012.

 

[Magnus]

So...how about this debut trailer from 2011:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WDQ4FhslSk

How much has changed....

 

[The Elite]

It sounded like some really loose philosophizing and pseudo-science. I rolled my eyes a ton. I don't think there are hard and fast rules within the Bioshock universe for how all this shit works, so I'm losing faith in spending time trying to figure out how it works, myself. Haha.

Also, did anyone else notice Liz' pinky before the story brought it up? I never did, not once, lol.

I noticed it and was curious why they didn't bring it up for a great deal of the game.

 

[iMax]

It sounded like some really loose philosophizing and pseudo-science. I rolled my eyes a ton. I don't think there are hard and fast rules within the Bioshock universe for how all this shit works, so I'm losing faith in spending time trying to figure out how it works, myself. Haha.

Also, did anyone else notice Liz' pinky before the story brought it up? I never did, not once, lol.

Yeah, I noticed it. I didn't, however, notice

Spoiler

'the key' that was 'always there'...

. I wonder if there are any subtle references to it earlier on in the game.

 

[jacksepticeye]

It sounded like some really loose philosophizing and pseudo-science. I rolled my eyes a ton. I don't think there are hard and fast rules within the Bioshock universe for how all this shit works, so I'm losing faith in spending time trying to figure out how it works, myself. Haha.

Also, did anyone else notice Liz' pinky before the story brought it up? I never did, not once, lol.

As soon as I met found her dancing at the beach after meeting her first I noticed it. I was like "Was she always missing a finger in the trailers and I missed it?" It seemed pretty significant to me at first and then I totally forgot until she said "you can ask what happened to my finger"

 

[iMax]

Also, just thinking out loud here, but in the opening hours of the game when the coin toss occurs and "it's always heads" — I wonder if the tally's higher on a second playthrough... Would've been a kick-ass Easter Egg

 

[Angelus Errare]

Or, as someone mentioned, Booker doesn't show up for the Baptism at all. Or Booker never fights in the way. In either of those scenarios he can still have Anna.

There are millions of probabilities were he can still have Anna and nothing of note happens.

Out of the Infinite possibilities, the ones that are destroyed are the ones that concern the Booker who goes to baptism and either accepts it or turns it down.

That goes against the entire time theorem of BS:I when you think about it. Since Booker never defeats Songbird regardless of tries, coin always lands on heads, Comstock will always take Anna, Booker will always give her up. The major events will always play out exactly as they're suppose to. If it was a simple as not showing up, then Anna/Elizabeth could have just taken Booker back even further in time and he just doesn't even go to the Baptism area. Remember Elizabeth says as much, regardless of the choices made there is always a light house and there's always a guy. This is reinforced when you're running around through timelines with Anna, thousands of different variations, but it's always Anna and Booker at that moment, which mean that everything before had to happen to get to that moment.

 

[The Elite]

Yeah, I noticed it. I didn't, however, notice

Spoiler

'the key' that was 'always there'...

. I wonder if there are any subtle references to it earlier on in the game.

I don't actually think it was always there. At least physically.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Yeah, I noticed it. I didn't, however, notice

Spoiler

'the key' that was 'always there'...

. I wonder if there are any subtle references to it earlier on in the game.

Was it always there? where? also why are you spoiler tagging stuff in a spoiler thread? lol

I don't actually think it was always there. At least physically.

Yeah I didn't think so either. I would definitely have noticed it. Where does she pull it from at the end? I was staring at the water when she did it lol

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Yeah, I noticed it. I didn't, however, notice

Spoiler

'the key' that was 'always there'...

. I wonder if there are any subtle references to it earlier on in the game.

You mean the lighthouse door where she suddenly has a key in her hand? yeah i'd like to know that too.

Also did they ever say who or what the Boys of Silence are? where do they come from?

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Also, just thinking out loud here, but in the opening hours of the game when the coin toss occurs and "it's always heads" — I wonder if the tally's higher on a second playthrough... Would've been a kick-ass Easter Egg

That was an Easter Egg, but to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.

Which made me lose my shit.

 

[The Elite]

That goes against the entire time theorem of BS:I when you think about it. Since Booker never defeats Songbird regardless of tries, coin always lands on heads, Comstock will always take Anna, Booker will always give her up. The major events will always play out exactly as they're suppose to. If it was a simple as not showing up, then Anna/Elizabeth could have just taken Booker back even further in time and he just doesn't even go to the Baptism area. Remember Elizabeth says as much, regardless of the choices made there is always a light house and there's always a guy. This is reinforced when you're running around through timelines with Anna, thousands of different variations, but it's always Anna and Booker at that moment, which mean that everything before had to happen to get to that moment.

There's always a lighthouse and there is always a guy, but does that guy necessarily have to be Booker? I thought that is what they were alluding to by showing us Rapture. In that scenario there was a lighthouse and there was a guy. Then again, there was no girl in that; unless we count the little sisters.

You may be right though. We're dealing with Infinite possibilities and it's hard to fathom that in all of them Booker just happens to end up at the baptism. But that could be the fun cosmic joke. Maybe it's some sort of fixed point in the multiverse.

 

[Brinbe]

I noticed the finger thing from previous trailers/footage. The actual explanation for it was pretty good, but goddamn, thinking on it, Jesus Christ, even THAT bit is cut straight from Fringe with Nina losing her arm.

And I agree that Lady Comstock stuff was stupid horseshit.

 

[diamount]

I really wish they develed further into Songbird's creation.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I really wish they develed further into Songbird's creation.

Yeah, that was a huge part of the game that was never really delved into.

DLC?

 

[jacksepticeye]

There's always a lighthouse and there is always a guy, but does that guy necessarily have to be Booker? I thought that is what they were alluding to by showing us Rapture. In that scenario there was a lighthouse and there was a guy. Then again, there was no girl in that; unless we count the little sisters.

You may be right though. We're dealing with Infinite possibilities and it's hard to fathom that in all of them Booker just happens to end up at the baptism. But that could be the fun cosmic joke. Maybe it's some sort of fixed point in the multiverse.

That's definitely what they're alluding to I think, always a scenario that plays out like Columbia and Rapture. Same constant different variables. There's always a city, always a mad lunatic running it, always crazy people in it but who those people are always changes and their motivations aren't always the same

 

[Magnus]

I have a stupid question; Battleship Bay, Finkton, etc. were all on land, right? Separate from Columbia?

I have trouble reconciling all the locations in the game geographically, or situating areas as part of the 'nation' of Columbia. For that matter, what's Emporia? The 'downtown'?

 

[Zomba13]

Just finished it. My mind is still a bit fuzzy from the ending. Not sure I really like it. Will need to think on it some.
Loved the Rapture nod though and I understand why it's called Bioshock Infinite now even if I still think it's a bad name.

 

[jacksepticeye]

I really wish they develed further into Songbird's creation.

There were voxophones in finks place talking about how he made him to protect elizabeth, but nothing more

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I have a stupid question; Battleship Bay, Finkton, etc. were all on land, right? Separate from Columbia?

I have trouble reconciling all the locations in the game geographically, or situating areas as part of the 'nation' of Columbia. For that matter, what's Emporia? The 'downtown'?

Battleship Bay was another floating island.

Think about that for a while.

 

[iMax]

Just rewatched the debut trailer for BioShock Infinite and noticed two interesting things...

1. the character in the trailer is wearing different clothes and has a different voice to DeWitt. Could it be a completely different character? Certainly explains why the events in the trailer never occur in the game.
2. …and Elizabeth has all her fingers intact.

 

[The Elite]

When I saw Elizabeth rip a portal to 1983 Paris and a theatre playing Return of the Jedi I literally jumped out of my seat and said oh shit. It would have been hilarious to anyone else who was around. At that point I knew I was in for something incredibly special.

Just rewatched the debut trailer for BioShock Infinite and noticed two interesting things...

1. the character in the trailer is wearing different clothes and has a different voice to DeWitt. Could it be a completely different character? Certainly explains why the events in the trailer never occur in the game.
2. &#8230;and Elizabeth has all her fingers intact.

I get the impression this game may have gone through a lot of changes throughout its development.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

That's definitely what they're alluding to I think, always a scenario that plays out like Columbia and Rapture. Same constant different variables. There's always a city, always a mad lunatic running it, always crazy people in it but who those people are always changes and their motivations aren't always the same

The scene in which you need to stop Daisy is even a reference to Little Sisters.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Yeah, that was a huge part of the game that was never really delved into.

DLC?

Yes please! Give as songbirds creation DLC as good as Minerva's Den.

 

[Angelus Errare]

There's always a lighthouse and there is always a guy, but does that guy necessarily have to be Booker? I thought that is what they were alluding to by showing us Rapture. In that scenario there was a lighthouse and there was a guy. Then again, there was no girl in that; unless we count the little sisters.

You may be right though. We're dealing with Infinite possibilities and it's hard to fathom that in all of them Booker just happens to end up at the baptism. But that could be the fun cosmic joke. Maybe it's some sort of fixed point in the multiverse.

Well Rapture takes place at a different time, but in regards to Columbia and it's outcomes it'll always happen, which means Booker will always approach the point of choice and from there two branching realities emerge. Columbia explicitly exists because of the choices Booker makes. If no Booker then Columbia doesn't exist. Same is said for Rapture, at least that's what I've taken away from it. When Liz says always a lighthouse always a man, I think she means broadly as in there will always be a city of some sort and some guy heading toward a lighthouse. But in regards to specific cities that are Columbia and Rapture, that will always be Booker/Comstock and Andrew Ryan/MC respectively.

Who knows, but Booker simply not showing up seems like a huge thing that was overlooked since they wouldn't need to kill Booker ever. Just take him back further and have him never show up. But like I said, too many things in the game point to the same outcome always happening.

But then if he never shows up to make that choice, how do we know exactly he would still have Anna? He might not even have a female child. I only ask that because I think of the theory of recreating a new Elvis from a clone, set all conditions to be exactly the same even down to the absolute smallest detail and you should theoretically have Elvis all over again (this includes time obviously), change even one thing and the child will turn out differently, it's part of the larger theorem about how parallel universes work.

I have a stupid question; Battleship Bay, Finkton, etc. were all on land, right? Separate from Columbia?

I have trouble reconciling all the locations in the game geographically, or situating areas as part of the 'nation' of Columbia. For that matter, what's Emporia? The 'downtown'?

All of that was on Columbia.

 

[Metroidvania]

So, the Letuces' basically have an about-face moment when they realize how out of hand Comstock has gotten?

Go crazy and attack this theory.

The divide by 0. Elizabeth/Anna killing Comstock/Booker at the Baptism eliminates both possibilities. The one when he has the child and the one when creates Columbia. Thus eliminating their existence.

Technically all that this means is that the Booker's who made the choice of even going to the baptism event were the ones who were killed. If Booker dying represents the death of the baptism choice, then it almost seems like the universe corrects itself to skip the event itself, leaving other universe's Booker's still alive.

Plus, in the post-credit scene, Booker is apparently agitated about Anna being missing, or alternatively, suddenly returning, it implies that he has some awareness/hazy recollection of either the events of infinite or at least the loss of his kid, which seems to imply to me that Liz pulled some cosmic strings to give at least one Booker a semi-happy ending.

There's always a lighthouse and there is always a guy, but does that guy necessarily have to be Booker? I thought that is what they were alluding to by showing us Rapture. In that scenario there was a lighthouse and there was a guy. Then again, there was no girl in that; unless we count the little sisters.

You may be right though. We're dealing with Infinite possibilities and it's hard to fathom that in all of them Booker just happens to end up at the baptism. But that could be the fun cosmic joke. Maybe it's some sort of fixed point in the multiverse.

Interestingly enough, Bioshock 2 has Eleanor, which is a much more centralized character than any female in Bioshock besides the random little sisters, but they did play a fairly important role in determining Jack's character, since he adopts them in the 'good' ending.

Also, while I hate the 'unreliable narrator' device as is heavily used here by Booker's memory lapse (though it is explained in part by the Letuce's in the universe travel aspect), I did chuckle when I saw the opening message about memories being unreliable.

 

[iMax]

That was an Easter Egg, but to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.

Which made me lose my shit.

Oh wow, I did not flag that at all.

 

[petethepanda]

Just started (obviously didn't read a single post in here). The very first lines of dialogue in the game... yeah, coming back to this thread once I'm done.

 

[ced]

Is there any relation from Anna in Booker's dreams and the lady mistaking Elizabeth for an Annabelle? I thought that was cool if so.

 

[Sblargh]

Hey, as a curiosity, does any system shock begin with a lighthouse?

 

[Guess Who]

The scene in which you need to stop Daisy is even a reference to Little Sisters.

I kind of took the way the Songbird ends up in Rapture in the end as a Songbird:Elizabeth::Big Daddy:Little Sister reference.

 

[The Elite]

Just started (obviously didn't read a single post in here). The very first lines of dialogue in the game... yeah, coming back to this thread once I'm done.

Get out!!!

 

[jacksepticeye]

I have a stupid question; Battleship Bay, Finkton, etc. were all on land, right? Separate from Columbia?

I have trouble reconciling all the locations in the game geographically, or situating areas as part of the 'nation' of Columbia. For that matter, what's Emporia? The 'downtown'?

No they're all on Columbia, just huge parts of it that look like land.

 

[iMax]

When I saw Elizabeth rip a portal to 1983 Paris and a theatre playing Return of the Jedi I literally jumped out of my seat and said oh shit. It would have been hilarious to anyone else who was around. At that point I knew I was in for something incredibly special.



I get the impression this game may have gone through a lot of changes throughout its development.

Fair point. That's the only thing I can put it down to. If not, it would be an awesome theory to discuss!

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Just rewatched the debut trailer for BioShock Infinite and noticed two interesting things...

1. the character in the trailer is wearing different clothes and has a different voice to DeWitt. Could it be a completely different character? Certainly explains why the events in the trailer never occur in the game.
2. …and Elizabeth has all her fingers intact.

Dude during development they changed sooo much design and stuff ... have you seen all the different Booker and Liz designs? i'm sure that has nothing to do with the final game.

 

[iMax]

Dude during development they changed sooo much design and stuff ... have you seen all the different Booker and Liz designs? i'm sure that has nothing to do with the final game.

Yeah, I know — but the designs in that trailer were pretty much final, as far as I can tell. Wasn't the game in development for around three years before that trailer debuted?

 

[jacksepticeye]

Is there any relation from Anna in Booker's dreams and the lady mistaking Elizabeth for an Annabelle? I thought that was cool if so.

Fuck yeah ! I forgot about that. That's an awesome one to hear when you replay it. This game has TOO much going on for my little brain lol. And I always thought I was a smart dude

 

[The Elite]

Fair point. That's the only thing I can put it down to. If not, it would be an awesome theory to discuss!

That's the fun of the premise. You could just play it up to them being part of an entirely different set of events in a different timeline.

I don't recall there being a heavy use of the American flag in the final version of the game.