AHA-Lambda
Member
Ah, good spot
Leads again to the discussion of whether Anna is in the crib or not.
SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
Ah, good spot
Leads again to the discussion of whether Anna is in the crib or not.
Ah, good spot
Leads again to the discussion of whether Anna is in the crib or not.
Schrödinger's cat theory: The player can assume that anna is both dead and alive
toastyToast
Member
I really would have liked more of the Songbird in the game. Such an interesting design
As a Big Daddy equivalent, it wasn't particularly upset being without Elizabeth for half the game.
As a Big Daddy equivalent, it wasn't particularly upset being without Elizabeth for half the game.
Patrick Bateman
Member
From my second playthrough:
I only noticed how much sense the ad made, after I understood the full story.
And I totally missed this scene where a woman describes an "anarchist" to the police. Which portrays it as Andrew Ryan, founder of Rapture.
I only noticed how much sense the ad made, after I understood the full story.
And I totally missed this scene where a woman describes an "anarchist" to the police. Which portrays it as Andrew Ryan, founder of Rapture.
I wasn't able to find any voxophone transcriptions online, so I went ahead and did it myself. There's quite a bit of backstory tucked away in the voxophone recordings - and some of them are incredibly easy to miss - so hopefully this helps people don't have the time or interest to hunt them all down. Ran it through a quick double-check, but there might still be some mistakes. It's sorted alphabetically and then subsorted chronologically.
http://pastebin.com/sdirJX12
http://pastebin.com/sdirJX12
My main question was how there could've been a timeline where Comstock even existed if Booker DeWitt died in the revolution, or how likely it was to happen if they reached the point they did at the end anyway.
Then I realized it was a split timeline, not a stable timeloop, and the elderly appearance had other possible explanations. Whoops!
Otherwise though the timeline seems kind of tight for both DeWitt and Comstock, as it seems he gets his city launched in just THREE YEARS after being baptized and gets with Lady Comstock and kills her fairly quickly too. I guess there must've been a decent amount of prep work beforehand, and losing his mind may explain why he was so easy to forgive Lady Comstock of her sins only to go nuts and kill her to protect the secret of Elizabeth.
Then I realized it was a split timeline, not a stable timeloop, and the elderly appearance had other possible explanations. Whoops!
Otherwise though the timeline seems kind of tight for both DeWitt and Comstock, as it seems he gets his city launched in just THREE YEARS after being baptized and gets with Lady Comstock and kills her fairly quickly too. I guess there must've been a decent amount of prep work beforehand, and losing his mind may explain why he was so easy to forgive Lady Comstock of her sins only to go nuts and kill her to protect the secret of Elizabeth.
When you have the power to open tears to other universes and basically steal tech and concepts from Rapture than 3 years is more than enough time to get things running.
You my friend are a champion. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this.
And we have no idea how long the scientist(s) were working on this beforehand anyway. Comstock may've just been the first guy all for it, and his crazy religious/nationalistic views just some garbage they put up with in order to pursue their mad science.
Wind's Howling
Member
Ignoring the voxaphones actually make you miss out on some necessary story parts like these for example;
''One man goes into the waters of baptism. A different man comes out, born again. But who is that man who was submerged? Perhaps that swimmer is both sinner and saint, until he is revealed unto the eyes of man.''
''When a soul is born again, what happens to the one left behind in the baptismal water? Is he simply ... gone? Or does he exist in some other world, alive, with sin intact?''
''One man goes into the waters of baptism. A different man comes out, born again. But who is that man who was submerged? Perhaps that swimmer is both sinner and saint, until he is revealed unto the eyes of man.''
''When a soul is born again, what happens to the one left behind in the baptismal water? Is he simply ... gone? Or does he exist in some other world, alive, with sin intact?''
AHA-Lambda
Member
Pretty much. Lutece was working on all this stuff and managed to contact her "brother" which became her passion to bring him to her. So along comes rich Comstock who is willing to fund the whole thing to realize his vision.
Female Lutece doesn't give a shit about anything but getting her "brother" so she is willing to do anything.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Non-baptised booker who has Anna is still a variable, because only Booker who accepts baptism drowns. Theoretically, alcoholic, gambling Booker with a daughter named Anna is still an accepted variable and possible universe. But that Booker will never meet Comstock, and never lose Anna to him.
Wind's Howling
Member
I sometimes wonder which is the better thing for Anna/Elizabeth.
Growing up with a drunk father with a ton of debt or growing up becoming the most powerful human being in the universe and holding supremacy over the entire world.
Growing up with a drunk father with a ton of debt or growing up becoming the most powerful human being in the universe and holding supremacy over the entire world.
It's an existential paradox. Booker died before Elizabeth was born which means she couldn't have been rescued from Columbia which means Booker couldn't have stopped Comstock which means Elizabeth couldn't have sent Booker back to the baptism. Some sci-fi I've read suggests nature abhors a paradox so in this case it seems the universe might have "corrected" the paradox.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Ah, I figured it killed of all Bookers but that still makes sense. Thanks
I'm going to stop thinking about this for now else I find something else to dissect and wrap my head around :lol
Playing into the theme of choices and how they are irrelevant..this would become irrelevant as well since the choice of which fate would you prefer would still bring her to the same conclusion.
Pretty much how I see it. The Grandfather paradox has long been synonymous with Science Fiction. Every time Booker dies when you are not with Elizabeth what do you see? Yep the same door and as you exit it you're back in the game.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Looking over the logs posted above, the Lutece field was already working in 1890. They used Comstock's money to expand the technology to create the devices that allows for the creation of tears, and thus Comstock's prophecies.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
You mean Soul Reaver?
Yeah anyone who loves this story and wants more of this kind of stuff, I highly recommend checking out the Soul Reaver series. SR 1 and 2 and then Defiance.
Can you imagine the technology Columbia would have in 1982? I can't but it would be some futuristic shit.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Whenever you die with Eliabeth and she injects you with something, what is that? Just macguffin healing gel? Is that of any significance?
Yeah, I've been meaning to play that
You mean Soul Reaver?
Yeah anyone who loves this story and wants more of this kind of stuff, I highly recommend checking out the Soul Reaver series. SR 1 and 2 and then Defiance.
Yeah, I've been meaning to play that
SuperEpicMan
Banned
I finished this last night, I thought it was pretty awesome but I am not sure how I feel about the ending yet. It seemed like there was one too many twists involved. The initial one where Booker takes old Elizabeths hand. I thought that was pretty good because it made me think that he has done that so many times, over and over only to fail due to the song bird. But then the thing with him actually being Comstock is just really confusing, although I nearly let out a man tear when it shows how Elizabeth lost the finger.
I doubt fighter jets would do any damage considering Columbia can use the power of tears and summon any weapon they desire.
Why don't they just open a tear of a universe where NYC doesn't exist?
She said she studied medicine in the tower, but yeah, no significance.
Some are theorizing the syringe is to equate Elizabeth being a Little Sister in Rapture.
Riposte
Member
Looked like they still used zeppelins... which are not exactly practical for combat.
Read this thread, and ask any questions you have regarding the ending.
Those feelings you have will no doubt turn positive in a relatively short amount of time.
I still think trying to link characters to Rapture is a huge stretch. The only one I'm accepting of right now is Songbird because it's clear the technology was borrowed from Rapture by Fink. I don't buy Booker being Andrew Ryan/Jack at all.
Maybe the Zeppelin had kick ass energy shields. Who knows. I totally buy Columbia wiping NYC off the face of the earth though.
Zepplins armed with nuclear missiles, think about that possibility!
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
It's more symbolic, less literal. Elizabeth and the syringe is a nice little callback to the Little Sisters, and the symbolic connection of the two. As is the blue dress.
I think it's more of a thematic/symbolic thing, rather than a clear cut Andre Ryan is Booker, and Elizabeth is a little sister.
The game presents the theme of there always being a light house, a city, and a man.
I think it was more to say, these characters, symbolically, fit these roles than the characters in Rapture did.
edit: beaten^
Riposte
Member
Dropping a nuke and then escaping on a zeppelin. Genius.
Fringe also touches on the "nature abhors a paradox" thing near the end of its run. Worth watching if anyone here hasn't already seen it.You mean Soul Reaver?
Yeah anyone who loves this story and wants more of this kind of stuff, I highly recommend checking out the Soul Reaver series. SR 1 and 2 and then Defiance.
Tear into another universe before the impact reaches you.
The imagination of tears is obviously not having that much of an effect on you. lol
I'm going with giant personal shield. I mean they had it working on an individual 70 years prior, I'm sure they could make it work with an airship in that time.
Do you think Booker has high cholesterol from all that Salt?
From reddit. I was in the majority every time. Constants and variables.
Edit: saw your edit but I'm still running with your mistakenly posted image.
God knows what the discussions were like then when BioShock came out as there are so many parallels to System Shock 2. Some that are pretty much straight up scene for scene and character types with exactly the same motivations. As others have said it's a symbolic reference but more over the thematic patterning in all of Levine's recent works.
Patrick Bateman
Member
From reddit. I was in the majority every time. Constants and variables.
I did it the same. Now, I'm on my second playthrough and do all the opposites. Yet, there are only small changes. The couple doesn't appear again to thank me that I didn't throw the ball and Booker doesn't have a wounded hand.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
There is a third choice for the raffle and the ticketmaster. You let time run out. Booker doesn't attempt to throw the ball and just tries to get the attention of the ticketmaster, respectively (and gets stabbed in the hand)
I did the same with Slate. Had to put the poor guy out of his misery.
Well once again, the main theme of the game is that choices are irrelevant.
SO there's no surprise there that the outcomes didn't differ much.
Same. I felt bad about what had happened to him.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't say that's the main theme at all. There's one choice that's key to the story: the baptism. It just isn't the player's choice.
I haven't put my finger on it yet, but redemption's a big one for me.
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