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[RedAssedApe]

You'll be long dead before that happens. But your grandchildren will carry on in your memory.

at least they will get to finally experience nintendo on a non-handheld console. i sure as hell won't be buying them a wii-3

 

[EloquentM]

Anybody think they might announce a stock buyback option soon?

HAHAHA

 

[Striek]

If Nintendo doesn't drop the Wii U price hard and fast they won't be taking their own advice on board very well...

“We thought that eliminating the concerns of future hardware expansion early on would make a great difference to how retailers and software publishers will allocate their energies.

“The retailers worldwide decide the allocations of store shelves and which products to focus on for the year-end sales season by looking at the results of the summer sales. Software publishers are currently reviewing which development teams will work on which projects, and the results of which shall be launched next year and beyond. Removing their concerns on the sales of Nintendo 3DS hardware will be very critical for us to be able to enrich the applicable software in the years to come.”

In effect it would be giving up not to do so, getting into a negative cycle of low sales -> low support -> low sales. The opposite of the "virtuous cycle" Iwata always mentions .

 

[Skyzard]

HAHAHA

I would around summer if I were them, provided they have their system sellers ready quite a bit before and a pricedrop in time for christmas. Why would it be so bad?

No third-party support is suicide. No platform ever managed to survive or ever had a consistent lifetime without it. Nintendo system can survive without it, but they system are always plagued with release vacuums which take away the hype from the machine. It's a very bad idea to actually support this.

Agreed.
Nintendo has great first party, it's not enough to last the whole gen though. Of course the problem is third party on nintendo sucks these days (continuing especially from Wii's later days).

Nintendo needed to convince more (decent) thirdparties it was safe and I think that is what they tried to do (with the launch selection) but it failed/is failing heavily. Now third-parties will wait to see how Nintendo's traditional IPs do on their system before even considering it again. Nintendo can't leave it to chance, they need to create new successful IPs (also in Nintendo's light, not dudebro replacements) to convince third parties it's at least somewhat safe. Making their older, lesser known titles more successful as well would help - ie F-Zero, Starfox. More of their system-sellers at the start would have helped their case more, no doubt. Not sure what happened there, overconfidence seems unlikely with how it was doing beforehand. Maybe they just anticipated really slow growth and focused too much on 3DS to recuperate.

The priority for them will still be timing the price drop right with their software to fix their situation at least, but for a lot less trouble next-gen, this needs to be done. I worry it's still too early for Nintendo with the Wii U and that they'll have better luck next christmas, but who knows how much they'll push it for the rest of the year.

 

[KillerTravis]

Big sword or short short, Iwata?

Dude...

 

[IchigoSharingan]

If Nintendo doesn't drop the Wii U price hard and fast they won't be taking their own advice on board very well...

Price cut alone doesn't move enough units.

They need a price cut + significant software. If they do that this Christmas, they'll be on easy street again.

 

[Yamauchi]

Anybody think they might announce a stock buyback option soon?

I personally believe they've already been buying back stock over the last 3-4 months. Just a hunch. Nintendo did something similar in the GCN era -- bought almost 6% of their stock back and announced it afterward.

 

[fart town usa]

I'm sure Iwata is a nice guy but I'd be glad to watch him ride off into the sunset. Nintendo needs to shake things up and not by 3D or systems shaped around controllers. They need to start making incredible games again and become the brand they once were. I swear, it's mindboggling how some of these companies come up with the decisions that they settle on.

Interesting to see how it'll play out.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Actually, it's the opposite.

Developers are going under or are consolidating under few publishers. Longer developing cycles, meaning fewer games from individual publishers.

At the start of current gen, Sony themselves said that third party reliance means less and less; it was all about first party games and exclusives. The Wii reinforced that assessment. No one will call the Wii a haven for third parties, yet it sold like crazy on the strength of first party games and exclusives.

Sony was wrong. They lost exclusivity for all of the PS2's biggest franchises except God of War and Gran Turismo, and lost literally half of their marketshare and billions of dollars. Hindsight is 20/20, but they would have been much better off moneyhatting GTA4, Assassin's Creed, LA Noire, FF XIII, and DMC4 than spending millions developing say, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, MAG, SOCOM, and PSABR.

Their first party strategy for the Vita has been a disaster.

There will be more games released than ever this gen. As large publishers fall, smaller developers will fill the vacuum. People aren't going to stop playing games because they can't play Medal of Honor and Darksiders.

 

[Striek]

Price cut alone doesn't move enough units.

They need a price cut + significant software. If they do that this Christmas, they'll be on easy street again.

They had basically nothing for the price cut with the 3DS. They could potentially have Pikmin/WiiFit U/TW101 in place with Wii U.

As in the quote Iwata recognised a need to sell hardware before the holidays and the truly big software hitters.

 

[The Horror the horror]

The PS3 would not have turned around without the third party support it got. Wii was able to get away with it due to its crazy sales from casuals. WiiU has neither.

Third party support was always there for the PS3. So what turned it around, really? It was the launch of the PS3 Slim, Sony's first party (Uncharted 2, Demon Soul's, GoW3, R&C), and the improved PSN that revitalized the console. Basically, it was through Sony's own doing.

 

[shinra-bansho]

At the start of current gen, Sony themselves said that third party reliance means less and less; it was all about first party games and exclusives. The Wii reinforced that assessment. No one will call the Wii a haven for third parties, yet it sold like crazy on the strength of first party games and exclusives.

The next-gen system with the strongest third party support and decent first party will yield market leadership to the next-gen system with the decent third party support and strongest first party.

Sony were wrong. And the Wii sold due to the novelty of motion controls and Wii Sports communicating that concept exceedingly well.

The PlayStation brand came to dominance on the back of third parties and its fall from grace was in losing their exclusivity (or perception of exclusivity.) While the rise of the XBOX has also been due to strong association with third party brands.

Call of Duty is more important to the 360 than Halo and Gears. FIFA is more important to the PS3 than Uncharted and Gran Turismo.

All else being equal, sure, first party output matters. So if by "decent" you mean gets every major third party title then, yes, the system with decent third party support and the strongest first party will potentially do better than the one with weaker first party support. This of course ignoring any impact of networked services.

Anyone who invests in stock at a peak instead of a valley probably shouldn't be investing anyways. They can consider it a lesson learned the hard way.

Hindsight is nice in knowing when a stock is going to peak; in September 2007 I don't see why it would have seemed unreasonable to think the company had potential to grow further.

 

[Terrell]

If the two worst years in the history of Nintendo is a ridiculous reason to call for their CEO to be fired, what would be a good reason?

Except they aren't. Yamauchi nearly bankrupted the company back in the day.
The fact that every Japanese company suffered greatly last year due to the strong yen, while not erasing the issues that occurred, serves to magnify them beyond their original proportion severely. People who invest in Japan are very keenly aware of this. Investor Q&A at Nintendo's FY meeting was very tame, not nearly the level of animosity thrown at, say, Howard Stringer, which bordered on outright heckling and "boo this man" mob mentality. At least not yet. That speaks to me that those invested in Nintendo understand the challenges of the market and are willing to see it through if they have reason to suspect recovery.

Any investor that bought their shares between Sept-07 and Sept-08 would probably beg to differ.

Anyone who invests in stock at a peak instead of a valley probably shouldn't be investing anyways. They can consider it a lesson learned the hard way.

----

Also, since I already brought him up... for those who are suggesting Nintendo "shake things up", remember Howard Stringer? The man who was brought in to "shake things up" at Sony and just ended up making a bad situation worse? A shake-up is a gamble, one that to my knowledge rarely works out for the better. So be careful what you're wishing for.

 

[GDGF]

I personally believe they've already been buying back stock over the last 3-4 months. Just a hunch. Nintendo did something similar in the GCN era -- bought almost 6% of their stock back and announced it afterward.

That's actually why I brought it up. I figure they'll want to buy back the majority of loose shares if they think they're devalued to prevent any hording shenanigans, and since their eyes are on the big picture they'd make a good bit of profit in the end.

 

[IchigoSharingan]

They had basically nothing for the price cut with the 3DS. They could potentially have Pikmin/WiiFit U/TW101 in place with Wii U.

As in the quote Iwata recognised a need to sell hardware before the holidays and the truly big software hitters.

I wouldn't dare compare the handheld situation vs the console situation, as the console waters are certainly thicker and more dangerous to navigate. Nintendo's rubbing up against sharks no matter where it swims in console land, which is why I'm posting that a price cut alone won't redeem them so easily.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

That's "only" about $188 million dollars if you're wondering.

It's approx. two 4,700lbs. bricks of solid gold, duct taped together.

 

[Striek]

I wouldn't dare compare the handheld situation vs the console situation, as the console waters are certainly thicker and more dangerous to navigate. Nintendo's rubbing up against sharks no matter where it swims in console land, which is why I'm posting that a price cut alone won't redeem them so easily.

I think the fact its going to be harder and they're in a worse position only makes it more imperative they act sooner according to the motives Iwata listed. Getting retail and developer confidence is just as important with the Wii U.

 

[royalan]

I think the fact its going to be harder and they're in a worse position only makes it more imperative they act sooner according to the motives Iwata listed. Getting retail and developer confidence is just as important with the Wii U.

And Iwata has proven for two gens now that he has absolutely no fucking clue how to do exactly that.

The man must go.

 

[pants]

Cant wait to see the back of Iwata

 

[Terrell]

Hindsight is nice in knowing when a stock is going to peak; in September 2007 I don't see why it would have seemed unreasonable to think the company had potential to grow further.

When you invest, you wait for equilibrium, a point where the stock is steady, preferably after the price has dipped. Then you research the available information about the company's plans and forecasts. If there's a likely upward trend coming, THEN you buy. What trend was going to push those numbers higher at a halfway point in a console generation?

It's like buying stock in Apple after WWDC instead of before when it dips in price and levels out. If you're not doing your homework about the stock you're buying, then you deserve to overpay for stock that may depreciate in value ahead of the product launch after the announcement hype wears off.

The same logic applies here... what did Nintendo have on the horizon in 2008 to keep their stock value at that high a level? Very little, as any good amount of research would show. So it was bound and due to depreciate in value, not go further up.

It's not hindsight, it's common sense.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

When you invest, you wait for equilibrium, a point where the stock is steady. Then you research the available information about the company's plans and forecasts. If there's a likely upward trend coming, THEN you buy. What trend was going to push those numbers higher at a halfway point in a console generation?

It's like buying stock in Apple after WWDC instead of before when it dips in price and levels out. If you're not doing your homework about the stock you're buying, then you deserve to overpay for stock that may depreciate in value ahead of the product launch after the announcement hype wears off.

The same logic applies here... what did Nintendo have on the horizon in 2008 to keep their stock value at that high a level? Very little. So it was bound and due to depreciate in value.

It's not hindsight, it's common sense.

Mind you, I'm not much of an investor myself, but with that admission aside, I feel like you may be overstating the ease with which one can and should be able to predict trends in the stock market.

 

[Kandinsky]

Versus for Wii U announcement incoming...

Lol nobody gives a shit about anything FF these days, poor Nintendo.

 

[Skyzard]

Actually, it's the opposite.

Developers are going under or are consolidating under few publishers. Longer developing cycles, meaning fewer games from individual publishers.

At the start of current gen, Sony themselves said that third party reliance means less and less; it was all about first party games and exclusives. The Wii reinforced that assessment. No one will call the Wii a haven for third parties, yet it sold like crazy on the strength of first party games and exclusives.

The next-gen system with the strongest third party support and decent first party will yield market leadership to the next-gen system with the decent third party support and strongest first party.

The PS3 would not have turned around without the third party support it got. Wii was able to get away with it due to its crazy sales from casuals. WiiU has neither.

Sony was wrong. They lost exclusivity for all of the PS2's biggest franchises except God of War and Gran Turismo, and lost literally half of their marketshare and billions of dollars. Hindsight is 20/20, but they would have been much better off moneyhatting GTA4, Assassin's Creed, LA Noire, FF XIII, and DMC4 than spending millions developing say, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, MAG, SOCOM, and PSABR.

Their first party strategy for the Vita has been a disaster.

There will be more games released than ever this gen. As large publishers fall, smaller developers will fill the vacuum. People aren't going to stop playing games because they can't play Medal of Honor and Darksiders.

The PS3 only got the third parties on board because the first party came to its rescue, with hardware revisions as well. The third parties were going to xbox regardless and moneyhatting wouldn't have convinced any publisher not to double their userbase or more.

Sony knows third parties are important, but you need sufficient first party for that to happen as well as new ips (and a cheap enough price). I know it's harder for nintendo since lower end hardware gets staler faster but that means they should be pushing first party and new ips even more so.

 

[Darryl]

No third-party support is suicide. No platform ever managed to survive or ever had a consistent lifetime without it. Nintendo system can survive without it, but their system are always plagued with release vacuums which take away the hype from the machine. It's a very bad idea to actually support this.

I'm saying the issue is not as black and white as "Iwata failed because of no third-party support". That's an issue for us on the consumer end to deal with and be upset about. From a business perspective, it may or may not matter. Nintendo needs to get the console in our doors and to sell us their software. They found a good balance with both the DS, 3DS, and Wii. Whether they succeed on the Wii U is still an unknown, but accusing Iwata of being a bad manager (from an investor standpoint) for their historical lack of third-party support would be uncalled for. In an ideal fantasy world for Nintendo as a company, we'd all have a Nintendo console in our house and we'd all be playing exclusively first-party Nintendo games. That's the investor dream. No third-parties.

 

[Terrell]

Mind you, I'm not much of an investor myself, but with that admission aside, I feel like you may be overstating the ease with which one can and should be able to predict trends in the stock market.

Oh, it's not, by any stretch. But when you buy during volatility either upward or downward, you're essentially putting all your chips of red or black on the roulette table. You gotta do your homework and make the safer bets with as much knowledge as you can grab hold of. And any knowledge of Nintendo in 2008 would tell a person the stock was possibly overvalued and that it's too big a risk to buy due to its insanely sharp incline in price.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Lol nobody gives a shit about anything FF these days, poor Nintendo.

Wut? lol dont be stupid

 

[Synth_floyd]

Don't they have about $10 billion in cash? So if they have this kind of money losing quarter every quarter for the next 12 years then I think they will go bankrupt.

 

[shinra-bansho]

When you invest, you wait for equilibrium, a point where the stock is steady, preferably after the price has dipped. Then you research the available information about the company's plans and forecasts. If there's a likely upward trend coming, THEN you buy. What trend was going to push those numbers higher at a halfway point in a console generation?

It's like buying stock in Apple after WWDC instead of before when it dips in price and levels out. If you're not doing your homework about the stock you're buying, then you deserve to overpay for stock that may depreciate in value ahead of the product launch after the announcement hype wears off.

The same logic applies here... what did Nintendo have on the horizon in 2008 to keep their stock value at that high a level? Very little, as any good amount of research would show. So it was bound and due to depreciate in value, not go further up.

It's not hindsight, it's common sense.

I'm not disputing your general commentary, nor do I claim any particular penchant or skill for investing in stocks; and 2008 I'll certainly concede - I simply took the peak period; but I still don't see how someone buying in or around September 2007 prior to the Wii's first full Holiday season, amid supply constraints indicating potential to sell many more of them, prior to its sales peaking and its software sales peaking, prior to major titles being released, couldn't have seen a potential upside.

This being moot of course, as these people could have or at least should have sold during 2008 for a small profit or minimal loss before shit hit the fan.

 

[TrickRoom]

In context (being that this years losses weren't as bad as last year's, iwata may resign over next year's performance), this isn't ridiculously bad nor unusually good. Just another clip of bad news for Nintendo.

 

[Aquamarine]

Don't they have about $10 billion in cash? So if they have this kind of money losing quarter every quarter for the next 12 years then I think they will go bankrupt.

Nintendo has, as of March 31st 2012:

462,061 million yen ($4.66 billion) in cash + deposits in assets.


The previous year, Nintendo had:

812,870 million yen ($8.20 billion).



Nintendo has invested a significant amount of their loose cash into various investment projects. That line of logic doesn't work like that.

 

[erlim]

They'll be fine, they can recoup for next year.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Yikes. How the mighty have fallen.

 

[SpartanN92]

How much is that in real money?

 

[Aquamarine]

How much is that in real money?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=54984180&postcount=351

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=54994065&postcount=601

 

[rodvik]

How much is that in real money?

Fifty shillings and a ducat I think.

 

[flipswitch]

How much is that in real money?

Not as much as you'd think

 

[RedAssedApe]

can't wait for for the day nintendo properties come to other consoles.

is it like a thing for people to tweet links to neogaf posts now? lol

@ZeoVGM...which one is you bro?

 

[bigtroyjon]

Except they aren't. Yamauchi nearly bankrupted the company back in the day.
The fact that every Japanese company suffered greatly last year due to the strong yen, while not erasing the issues that occurred, serves to magnify them beyond their original proportion severely. People who invest in Japan are very keenly aware of this. Investor Q&A at Nintendo's FY meeting was very tame, not nearly the level of animosity thrown at, say, Howard Stringer, which bordered on outright heckling and "boo this man" mob mentality. At least not yet. That speaks to me that those invested in Nintendo understand the challenges of the market and are willing to see it through if they have reason to suspect recovery.

Yeah, nothing says "willing to see through it" like a fire sale of the stock which is down significantly in the last 2 years.

 

[Pikma]

at least they will get to finally experience nintendo on a non-handheld console. i sure as hell won't be buying them a wii-3

Well, it's ok, they can always get a second job.

 

[GoddyofAus]

All those Wii U's in the warehouse man. Not good.

 

[Solid Samus]

Oh my god they're losing so much money time to pack it up Iwata cuz y'all are going third party or getting fired or something. I'm so dumb

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

not too bad considering the new console launch. still a loss tho

 

[Aquamarine]

Oh my god they're losing so much money time to pack it up Iwata cuz y'all are going third party or getting fired or something dumb like that

You do realize that article is five years old, right?

 

[Synth_floyd]

Nintendo has invested a significant amount of their loose cash into various investment projects. That line of logic doesn't work like that.

Not sure how liquid their various investments are but the fact that they lost $188 mill but still have $4+ billion in cash and billions more in investments means that even if the Wii U ends up completely bombing and they lose this kind of money for the next few years they can always come back next gen with a hit like the Wii and they'll be fine. Sucks for their investors though.

 

[Solid Samus]

You do realize that article is five years old, right?

yeah? My point is that Nintendo posting 188 milllion in losses hardly warrants half the negative reaction it's getting. Responding to this with 'lol iwata u fired' and 'Nintendo's goin third party' doesn't make any sense to me

 

[bjb]

The jest is taking suicide - a horrendous form of passing anyway - and a very painful form of suicide and putting it in a horrible image whilst 'jesting' if someone wanted the short or long sword.

Your post was in bad taste and vulgar. It certainly wasn't humorous, you missed out the joke and wit.

Oh my god lol....joke post?

 

[krizzx]

Ok, why does gaf hate Iwata so much?

Because he's been doing an overwhelmingly good job of thrashing the companies they like more and they want him to stop being a thorn in their side for forcing changes in the industry(motion controls, touch screen gaming,) that they don't like such as making record breaking sales with games that aren't gory or filled with guns..

 

[Phife Dawg]

Well that would be a lot less than what I was expecting with all the 3DS promotions and the terrible Wii U performance thus far. Still, they need to turn it around this fiscal year for sure. At least after 3DS they have the experience in turning around dire situations. Massive price cut incoming? But that would seriously put Iwata's goal in jeopardy, even with Pokemon launching this fiscal year.

 

[Aquamarine]

Um, yeah? My point is that Nintendo posting 188 milllion in losses hardly warrants half the negative reaction it's getting. Responding to this with 'lol iwata u fired' and 'Nintendo's goin third party' doesn't make any sense to me

Comparing Nintendo's current situation to Sony's in 2008 is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

Not sure how liquid their various investments are but the fact that they lost $188 mill but still have $4+ billion in cash and billions more in investments means that even if the Wii U ends up completely bombing and they lose this kind of money for the next few years they can always come back next gen with a hit like the Wii and they'll be fine. Sucks for their investors though.

I imagine Nintendo has allocated the bulk of their investments, so yes, they can most definitely ride this generation out no matter what.

But a brand new home console might be a bit much for them if Wii U loses boatloads of money for Nintendo.

 

[Etnos]

I'm worried of what this means not just for Nintendo, but the whole console business.