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[Petrae]

I think you should be praised for your successes, but held accountable for your fuck-ups.

Iwata shouldn't be given an infinite fuck-up pass because of decisions he made almost a decade ago. ESPECIALLY when he's followed it up with colossal missteps like the 3DS and Wii U launches.

When a CEO fucks up as consistently as Iwata has at this point you don't wait around and give him the chance to keep fucking up. You clean house.

I'll even go as far as to say that termination doesn't even have to be the case. But something needs to change and responsibility must be taken. I'll give him another fiscal year, sure. But if significant changes aren't seen in 3DS and Wii U sales? Not just in Japan, either-- worldwide. If not, then he needs to go. For now, put him on notice and let him know that his Get Out of Firing cards have all been used.

 

[JoeM86]

DLC and microtransactions aren't the only sign of a money hungry CEO.

As someone pointed out earlier, the fact that he looked at the initial good reaction the 3DS got at its E3 unveiling and significantly raised the price in response is telling.

Almost as if he runs a business...ALL CEOs do that

 

[Mario007]

How is he the worst? Is he putting games out requiring DLC? Requiring microtransactions for basic things?

Do tell

And which of the console manufacturer's CEOs is actually doing that? Iwata admitted to jacking up the price of 3DS because people liked it so much at e3. That's far worse than what either MS or Sony has done. Hell the only company that is big on 'requiring' DLC and microtransactions is EA.

 

[royalan]

Is this your first time on GAF? Your personal affections are coloring your perspective, there are plenty of long bad news threads about all the companies, when there's bad news to be had.

Your examples from this thread are just silly. No one (sane) wishes death upon Iwata, claiming so is the most ridiculous of strawmen I've seen in a while. I don't know why people keep perpetuating the nonsense idea. And again the Pocahontas gif was hilarious; equating it to "calling Iwata a bitch" is histrionics.

There's plenty of discussion in the thread, amid the one-liners also throughout the thread, as with any thread on here. If you want some specifically pointed out, see Petrae's for example.

Also, it's just video games.

I agree with all of this.

I've said it before: the best idea Iwata ever had was heading up the Nintendo Directs and Iwata Asks.

Not because they get info out to the fans, but because thet successfully tied his image to Nintendo for a large of portion of Nintendo fans and the industry. I have never seen so many people willing to defend a poorly performing CEO before. When Ken Kutaragi got the boot, people cheered. Wada? Celebration.

But even so much as criticize Iwata and you get attacked like you're criticizing Nintendo itself. But Iwata was behind the Wii and DS! Without Iwata Nintendo will fall and be forced to develop for mobile! Nintendo needs Iwata!

Almost makes you wonder how Nintendo EVER managed to be successful without him, seeing as he's apparently the heart and soul of the operation.

 

[Hero]

You're right. They're not.

But they still reported a profit last FY.

Really puts things into perspective. Even though Square-Enix was profitable until only recently, they were still aware of the damage done to their legacy brands, and ousted Wada as a result.

Meanwhile, people want Iwata to stick around despite Iwata doing the same to Nintendo, only with consecutive loses. Huge consecutive losses.

What? The fiscal year they just reported on was tremendous losses and that was with big games like Hitman and Tomb Raider having been mismanaged over the course of a number of years in addition to ridiculous sales predictions that were based off of Metacritic of all things.

I don't think you understand how bad of a position Square-Enix is in. The remainder of this has the relaunch of FFXIV and FFXIII-3. In this day and age with literally every single new MMO failing after the first few months do you expect Square-Enix to succeed here again? Because I sure don't. If (more likely when) A Realm Reborn bombs it's going to extremely damaging to SE. This comes entirely from mismanagement from the entire company.

Under Iwata's leadership Nintendo had an entire generation of unprecedented dominance with both the DS and the Wii. They priced the 3DS too high initially and bit the bullet, giving up short term profitability to ensure the longterm health of the platform. Going into this fiscal year that's about to end for them is bad but to be expected of a hardware manufacturer releasing a new home console.

But there's a difference between posting profit and tarnishing brands. While I don't disagree XIV helped (hence the reason for a bad 2010 fiscal year) and XIII hindered the Final Fantasy brand, that's a completely different issue. We are talking about losses and profit margins here. I was comparing the two because they both made questionable budget and revenue decisions that, in the end, made both companies post losses for this FY.

I also agree that past decisions have put them in the pickle they are in and need to make more sensible decisions based on fanbase reactions (bringing the game everyone wants out (Versus(XV))) and proper budgeting of titles and their marketing budgets.

Once that is straitened all out they'll be posting profits again.

Nintendo on the other hand are in a bigger pickle then people are willing to admit.

Even going by the trend that Wii U is on par with Gamecube, Nintendo still managed to be profitable throughout that generation despite being in third and that's with the PS2 having a massive headstart and Microsoft literally bleeding money to buy into the market. Wii U is off to an absolutely awful start for sure but it's nothing they can't come back from.

Square-Enix literally mismanaged almost every single intellectual property they had this past generation. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Hitman, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs, etc. What exactly is the light at the end of the tunnel for them? Waiting out for the PS4 and Durango to hit? Sounds like a great plan until you take into account that despite the install base of PC/PS3/Xbox 360 they still couldn't manage to sell enough copies of their AAA games to make them profitable I have extreme doubts that PS4/Durango will work out better for them.

 

[CoffeeGames]

I'll even go as far as to say that termination doesn't even have to be the case. But something needs to change and responsibility must be taken. I'll give him another fiscal year, sure. But if significant changes aren't seen in 3DS and Wii U sales? Not just in Japan, either-- worldwide. If not, then he needs to go. For now, put him on notice and let him know that his Get Out of Firing cards have all been used.

I have said they need to rotate the staff. Put Mr. Fils-Aime in the warehouse, since he apparently isn't aware of the consistent supply/demand issues NOA has had these last few years. Move the marketing team outside to lawn care, maybe the fresh air can help generate new ideas. Move the lawn care to marketing. Perhaps they have enough fresh air to generate some great Wii U ads (can't be any worse than what NOA has already produced).

As a consumer/investor in the U.S., I think NOA is part of NCL's bigger problem. Some people seem to like to ignore issues/facts when it comes to NOA's horrid supply chain issues, marketing, and PR, and I wonder if they are perhaps in a different region altogether? Perhaps they are in Japan, and deal with NCL's regional decisions there? Not really sure...but as an investor, you should question why ALL staff is getting a paycheck.

Nintendo's best solution to all this, would be to take the company private. Buy back the shares, take the company private, and don't worry with investors...but being they are a publicly traded company, they answer to investors.

 

[AniHawk]

I have said they need to rotate the staff. Put Mr. Fils-Aime in the warehouse, since he apparently isn't aware of the consistent supply/demand issues NOA has had these last few years. Move the marketing team outside to lawn care, maybe the fresh air can help generate new ideas. Move the lawn care to marketing. Perhaps they have enough fresh air to generate some great Wii U ads (can't be any worse than what NOA has already produced).

As a consumer/investor in the U.S., I think NOA is part of NCL's bigger problem. Some people seem to like to ignore issues/facts when it comes to NOA's horrid supply chain issues, marketing, and PR, and I wonder if they are perhaps in a different region altogether? Perhaps they are in Japan, and deal with NCL's regional decisions there? Not really sure...but as an investor, you should question why ALL staff is getting a paycheck.

Nintendo's best solution to all this, would be to take the company private. Buy back the shares, take the company private, and don't worry with investors...but being they are a publicly traded company, they answer to investors.

noa is pretty much shackled by ncl. iwata kinda closed down shop in america when he took over, although things might have been gravitating that way anyhow when arakawa left.

as for supply issues, nintendo's sold more fire emblem games than they normally do in the same time frame, and luigi's mansion 2 seems to have beaten expectations as well. however, i believe they have to get carts manufactured in japan or china before they go out to different parts of the world, which is part of the problem.

 

[StreetsAhead]

Why is releasing a game now "suicide"? Because Nintendo doesn't know how to market it? If Wii Fit U is ready, waiting and losing valuable time solo time on the market is arguably a worse idea.

Because it would bomb without momentum from the hardware itself. Nintendo holds off games for the holidays all the time - Skyward Sword and Animal Crossing New Leaf being primary examples. Timing is everything - you don't just release games as they are finished.

If the strategy now is to finish games and withhold them to load up for the holidays, it'll be an interesting battle. Wii U will face competition on several fronts: New (and more powerful) hardware from Sony and MS will captivate core audiences; budget-conscious families with less disposable income throughout the year will find better deals (and cheaper libraries) with 360/PS3; and the casual set has long since graduated from Wii and are content with either mobile gaming or with the latest Call of Duty and Madden.

I'm not disagreeing, but we're far from saying that the other console hardware will both captivate the hardcore audience. Vita is proof that things can get fucked up.

This same caliber of games were released for the game cube and it didn't help much in the long run selling consoles. The Wii U is the definition of a hardware failure.

As you could argue they were on the DS and Wii, I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Petrae]

Nintendo's best solution to all this, would be to take the company private. Buy back the shares, take the company private, and don't worry with investors...but being they are a publicly traded company, they answer to investors.

This is not the first time I've heard this idea. It'd certainly take the pressure off and allow Nintendo to run things the way it wants. Going public is kind of like making a deal with the devil. Sure, you can more money... but you have new and sometimes unrealistic responsibilities to those who feed you the extra cash. Profits aren't enough. Single-digit YOY growth needs to be double-digit.

It's a very sharp dual-edged sword.

 

[Sandfox]

Why are people comparing Iwata and Nintnedo to Wada and SE?

 

[CoffeeGames]

noa is pretty much shackled by ncl. iwata kinda closed down shop in america when he took over, although things might have been gravitating that way anyhow when arakawa left.

So you say. I just don't see proof of that, just a lot of hearsay. Can you point me to one decision that Mr. Iwata shot down that NOA wanted to do? One game?

How has Mr. Iwata "shackled" NOA?

 

[Petrae]

Because it would bomb without momentum from the hardware itself. Nintendo holds off games for the holidays all the time - Skyward Sword and Animal Crossing New Leaf being primary examples. Timing is everything - you don't just release games as they are finished.


I'm not disagreeing, but we're far from saying that the other console hardware will both captivate the hardcore audience. Vita is proof that things can get fucked up.

Fair points. I'm not necessarily sure that I agree with the strategy in this case, but there's precedent as you mentioned. Good show.

 

[PshycoNinja]

What? The fiscal year they just reported on was tremendous losses and that was with big games like Hitman and Tomb Raider having been mismanaged over the course of a number of years in addition to ridiculous sales predictions that were based off of Metacritic of all things.

I don't think you understand how bad of a position Square-Enix is in. The remainder of this has the relaunch of FFXIV and FFXIII-3. In this day and age with literally every single new MMO failing after the first few months do you expect Square-Enix to succeed here again? Because I sure don't. If (more likely when) A Realm Reborn bombs it's going to extremely damaging to SE. This comes entirely from mismanagement from the entire company.

Under Iwata's leadership Nintendo had an entire generation of unprecedented dominance with both the DS and the Wii. They priced the 3DS too high initially and bit the bullet, giving up short term profitability to ensure the longterm health of the platform. Going into this fiscal year that's about to end for them is bad but to be expected of a hardware manufacturer releasing a new home console.



Even going by the trend that Wii U is on par with Gamecube, Nintendo still managed to be profitable throughout that generation despite being in third and that's with the PS2 having a massive headstart and Microsoft literally bleeding money to buy into the market. Wii U is off to an absolutely awful start for sure but it's nothing they can't come back from.

Square-Enix literally mismanaged almost every single intellectual property they had this past generation. Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Hitman, Tomb Raider, Sleeping Dogs, etc. What exactly is the light at the end of the tunnel for them? Waiting out for the PS4 and Durango to hit? Sounds like a great plan until you take into account that despite the install base of PC/PS3/Xbox 360 they still couldn't manage to sell enough copies of their AAA games to make them profitable I have extreme doubts that PS4/Durango will work out better for them.

You're missing the point. It is much worse for a company to post consecutive losses (Nintendo) then to have a one bad year after a string of profitable years (Square Enix).

I don't disagree that Wada should've got the boot but to say that Iwata or Nintendo isn't in the same/worse position then Square Enix is disingenuous to the actual facts at hand. Iwata did a bad job for quite a few years now too.

Square Enix can still post a hefty profit for this next Fiscal Year (March 2013 - March 2014). With Nintendo I don't see that happening. It's harder for a hardware manufacture to turn massive losses into profits unlike a software company.

 

[Hero]

Why are people comparing Iwata and Nintnedo to Wada and SE?

Because someone on the last page tried to use Wada/SE to paint a picture of how fucked Iwata/Nintendo based on losses alone and not actually what is going wrong with each company.

You're missing the point. It is much worse for a company to post consecutive losses (Nintendo) then to have a one bad year after a string of profitable years (Square Enix).

I don't disagree that Wada should've got the boot but to say that Iwata or Nintendo isn't in the same/worse position then Square Enix is disingenuous to the actual facts at hand. Iwata did a bad job for quite a few years now too.

Square Enix can still post a hefty profit for this next Fiscal Year (March 2013 - March 2014). With Nintendo I don't see that happening. It's harder for a hardware manufacture to turn massive losses into profits unlike a software company.

So Square-Enix can post massive losses one year but Nintendo has two consecutive losses and that's the line you're choosing to draw in the sand here?

Outside of the 3DS and Wii U launch what exactly did Iwata fuck up at Nintendo? Because Wada fucked up everything at Square-Enix.

And please tell me what game releases they have for the current fiscal year that they're going to pull profit from?

 

[Mario007]

Because someone on the last page tried to use Wada/SE to paint a picture of how fucked Iwata/Nintendo based on losses alone and not actually what is going wrong with each company.



So Square-Enix can post massive losses one year but Nintendo has two consecutive losses and that's the line you're choosing to draw in the sand here?

Outside of the 3DS and Wii U launch what exactly did Iwata fuck up at Nintendo? Because Wada fucked up everything at Square-Enix.

And please tell me what game releases they have for the current fiscal year that they're going to pull profit from?

Difference between SE and Nintendo losses: a large part of SE losses is the extraordinary loss, i.e. once-off writing down of assets and cancellation of projects. This won't be back next year. Nintendo's losses are fully attributable to how they run their business.

Also fucking up your 2 current gen consoles is the definition of fucking up a hardware based company like Nintendo. Both Wada and Iwata presided over the best financial periods in their respective companies' history and they both failed to address the inherent problems in the companies that have led them down this road.

 

[Terrell]

Oh, you mean.. like... the Wii U.

Nice false dichotomy, btw.

Why'd you bring hardware into a discussion that had nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with software, knowing full well that release parameters are different between the two?

 

[Sandfox]

Square Enix can still post a hefty profit for this next Fiscal Year (March 2013 - March 2014).

I honestly do not see that happening unless something unexpected happens.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Why'd you bring hardware into a discussion that had nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with software, knowing full well that release parameters are different between the two?

Shinro is low key nintendo hater . Its still fun to argue with him though.

 

[AniHawk]

So you say. I just don't see proof of that, just a lot of hearsay. Can you point me to one decision that Mr. Iwata shot down that NOA wanted to do? One game?

How has Mr. Iwata "shackled" NOA?

how about the decrease in influence in western studios since he started as president? granted, nintendo works with kuju, monster, and next-level, but all the western 'second-party' companies were essentially let go. left field studios, rareware, and silicon knights all ended their relationships with nintendo in some form or another. retro had everything canceled and metroid prime heavily supervised by miyamoto. retro still has heavy supervision from japan. nst made one more console game before being relegated to the mario vs dk and wiiware/dsiware guys.

even in current partnerships, they basically tell them what they're doing next, like how next-level games was told to drop work on their current project to start work on luigi's mansion 2. there's no experimentation done by any of nintendo's western studios or partners to a serious degree, or at least, hasn't been (retro might be doing something original for the first time since they were founded, but we'll have to see on that). and that's in stark contrast to how prototypes apparently operate in japan.

basically, everyone has to report to spd now, instead of operating on their own, which is more like how sony does it. i don't think how sony works is the answer, but there's a lot less red tape.

 

[Hero]

Difference between SE and Nintendo losses: a large part of SE losses is the extraordinary loss, i.e. once-off writing down of assets and cancellation of projects. This won't be back next year. Nintendo's losses are fully attributable to how they run their business.

Also fucking up your 2 current gen consoles is the definition of fucking up a hardware based company like Nintendo. Both Wada and Iwata presided over the best financial periods in their respective companies' history and they both failed to address the inherent problems in the companies that have led them down this road.

Difference between SE and Nintendo losses: Most of Nintendo's losses can be attributed to the fact that they make hardware in addition to software. I already said they had to eat the bullet on the price cut of the 3DS two years ago fully knowing how much money they were going to lose on it. Tomorrow's report I expect a good portion of it to be attributed to actually paying for launching the Wii U worldwide since it costs them money to have them made and shipped before they can reap the sales.

I'm not sure where you're going with your second paragraph. Do you think the 3DS is not making them money now? Do you doubt the future viability of the platform over the next three or four years? If it was possible for Iwata to turn the 3DS ship around then why is it not possible for him to do it with the Wii U?

Nintendo certainly has problems, they lost the blue ocean market that propelled the DS and Wii to unprecedented heights to iOS/Android type devices and things like Brain Age and Nintendogs aren't selling gangbusters but they they didn't ruin their core IP and brands. You cannot dispute that both Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest took a huge hit this generation.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

Considering they just released a new console (with poor sales) $188m isn't actually that bad.

 

[PshycoNinja]

So Square-Enix can post massive losses one year but Nintendo has two consecutive losses and that's the line you're choosing to draw in the sand here?

Outside of the 3DS and Wii U launch what exactly did Iwata fuck up at Nintendo? Because Wada fucked up everything at Square-Enix.

And please tell me what game releases they have for the current fiscal year that they're going to pull profit from?

I didn't draw any fictional line in the sand. It's a fact when you post a $500 million dollar loss one year then the next year post more losses that its really bad for a company to post that. I am not saying that "oh well Square Enix had one bad year so they're fine". No that's still bad for Square Enix. I am just showing that if you do a bad job as CEO and post huge or consecutive losses then you should be considered to be booted from the company. Even Iwata acknowledged this by saying if he can't do it by the end of this FY (March 2014) then he'll step down.

Botching two hardware launches is reason enough. These both were multi million/billion dollar investments he messed up. It's not just some simple "opsies". This cost the company a grave amount of money. And because of this Nintendo will not get software sales (including the money they get for 3rd parties selling software on their system) like they want. It will continue to drain a lot of resources until they plug the leak and fix it.

Square Enix actually has quite the software this year to make them a pretty penny:

Final Fantasy X HD
Bravely Default
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix

and the high possibility that Versus (XV) will probably release before the end of the FY (March 2014). So that's quite the output from the Japan division.

 

[richman555]

Niintendo needs Perrin Kaplan and Matt Cassamassina back.

Since these two left the scene, they lost their mojo.

 

[QaaQer]

Funny because IMO Mario Galaxy was based on one big gimmick (the Wiimote). It's one reason I am so excited for the new Mario 3D. No Wiimote gimmick required, hopefully.

I'm going to cringe if there is any kind of gamepad nonsense.

 

[JoeM86]

I'm going to cringe if there is any kind of gamepad nonsense.

Nonsense? You mean using the console's input to control the game? How dare they

 

[Triple U]

Considering they just released a new console (with poor sales) $188m isn't actually that bad.

This. I have no sense of loyalty at all to Nintendo and even I can tell that this is nothing. Alot of people here don't really have good grasp on financials and jump to every nonsensical, sensationalist conclusion they can. Its usually alot more fun to read than reality.

 

[Sandfox]

I'm going to cringe if there is any kind of gamepad nonsense.

Why wouldn't they use the gamepad?

 

[PshycoNinja]

I honestly do not see that happening unless something unexpected happens.

Most losses attributed to the sell off of the mobile division in NA and the cancelation of projects throughout the company along with the money put into XIV.

Next year these wont factor into operating costs. Which means if they sell decently they will post profits. Not really brain surgery.

Nintendo will continue to post losses unless they announce something that makes Wii U's fly off shelves but with the little 3rd party support, I doubt it.

Bookmark this post for Square Enix's and Nintendo's next FY report.

 

[Jackano]

I really hope Iwata stay.
Nintendo is no other company, and I hope stupid market overreactions doesn't apply to Nintendo at this point.

 

[liger05]

I expected a lot worse. A $188 mil loss isnt going to lead to Iwata losing his job.

 

[daxgame]

Less than half.

Thanks for answering me in this mass madness haha
Personally I can't care less as I know that their games are coming out =)
looking forward to E3, Nintendo! Investors too will be watching =P

 

[shinra-bansho]

Why'd you bring hardware into a discussion that had nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with software, knowing full well that release parameters are different between the two?

For one thing, an operating system is software. For another, it was a recent example of a product released half-baked by the company claimed at delaying to perfect their products, while apparently only other companies release incomplete and/or broken products - which, apparently negates the idea that Iwata may, in fact, be in part responsible for software droughts, as CEO of NCL. For another, it's not like hardware hasn't been delayed before. Maybe it's a flawed example, feel free to elaborate on it being flawed if you like, I don't much care either way.

 

[Hero]

I didn't draw any fictional line in the sand. It's a fact when you post a $500 million dollar loss one year then the next year post more losses that its really bad for a company to post that. I am not saying that "oh well Square Enix had one bad year so they're fine". No that's still bad for Square Enix. I am just showing that if you do a bad job as CEO and post huge or consecutive losses then you should be considered to be booted from the company. Even Iwata acknowledged this by saying if he can't do it by the end of this FY (March 2014) then he'll step down.

CEO's that ruin their company beyond their ability to recover is reason enough to give them the ousting, so we can agree on that then.

Botching two hardware launches is reason enough. These both were multi million/billion dollar investments he messed up. It's not just some simple "opsies". This cost the company a grave amount of money. And because of this Nintendo will not get software sales (including the money they get for 3rd parties selling software on their system) like they want. It will continue to drain a lot of resources until they plug the leak and fix it.

The PS3 is the worst hardware failure story in the history of the industry. For the majority of the generation they were pretty much irrelevant but they still managed to come back by the end of it.

Wii U is not doing very well but it's still extremely early to call it. After this holiday season we'll have a much clearer picture on how the next few years play out.

Square Enix actually has quite the software this year to make them a pretty penny:

Final Fantasy X HD
Bravely Default
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIV
Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 Remix

and the high possibility that Versus (XV) will probably release before the end of the FY (March 2014). So that's quite the output from the Japan division.

Haha what? First of all Bravely Default is being published by Nintendo outside of Japan so they won't see any money from that unless Nintendo cut them a deal to secure the rights so we have no way of knowing for sure but I doubt it will factor into it.

Lightning Returns might do okay in Japan but it will do worse than XIII-2 and bomb everywhere else. The series has stagnated. I would argue that people don't really care about Kingdom Hearts outside of Japan except for a small fanbase. You can thank Square-Enix making endless spin-offs and side-stories on different platforms for that.

And you're kidding yourself if you think XIV isn't going to bomb. The MMO market has changed drastically from what it used to be and I don't see Square-Enix adapting to it. Outside of WoW there is no other pay to play MMO game that has launched in the past four years that were successful.

So let's add it up. Two HD remasters, another sequel in the XIII story and an MMO relaunch is supposed to bring them profitability?

 

[AniHawk]

off-topic, but there needs to be an extravagant kingdom hearts 3 game on consoles for the series to really be something again. i'm sure the ds, psp, and 3ds games were neat and all, but it was dumb to ignore the main series for so long. well, it was dumb to focus on versus for so long. that game ate up more money than just its development costs.

 

[Hero]

off-topic, but there needs to be an extravagant kingdom hearts 3 game on consoles for the series to really be something again. i'm sure the ds, psp, and 3ds games were neat and all, but it was dumb to ignore the main series for so long. well, it was dumb to focus on versus for so long. that game ate up more money than just its development costs.

Exactly. Versus cost Square-Enix more than just money, there was an opportunity cost to it and the cost was that Kingdom Hearts went an entire console generation without a main, numbered entry.

Back in the PS2 era Kingdom Hearts was as big as Final Fantasy. I have high doubts that it's still relevant outside a very minor, dedicated fanbase.

 

[Triple U]

CEO's that ruin their company beyond their ability to recover is reason enough to give them the ousting, so we can agree on that then.


The PS3 is the worst hardware failure story in the history of the industry. For the majority of the generation they were pretty much irrelevant but they still managed to come back by the end of it.

Wii U is not doing very well but it's still extremely early to call it. After this holiday season we'll have a much clearer picture on how the next few years play out.



Haha what? First of all Bravely Default is being published by Nintendo outside of Japan so they won't see any money from that unless Nintendo cut them a deal to secure the rights so we have no way of knowing for sure but I doubt it will factor into it.

Lightning Returns might do okay in Japan but it will do worse than XIII-2. The series has stagnated. I would argue that people don't really care about Kingdom Hearts outside of Japan.

And you're kidding yourself if you think XIV isn't going to bomb. The MMO market has changed drastically from what it used to be and I don't see Square-Enix adapting to it. Outside of WoW there is no other pay to play MMO game that has launched in the past four years that were successful.

So let's add it up. Two HD remasters, another sequel in the XIII story and an MMO relaunch is supposed to bring them profitability?

Huh?

 

[Sandfox]

Next year these wont factor into operating costs. Which means if they sell decently they will post profits. Not really brain surgery.

I'm expecting both FFXIV and FFXIII-3 to bomb really hard and Bravley Default won't do anything. The HD collections could go either way. Has the FFX collection even been confirmed for this year yet?

Its obviously possible for them to a big profit this FY but I'm personally not expecting it.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Huh?

It lost a metric shit-ton of money - is presumably what he means. Although, I don't know who wins in the moneypit competition between it and the original XBOX off the top of my head.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

The PS3 is the worst hardware failure story in the history of the industry. For the majority of the generation they were pretty much irrelevant but they still managed to come back by the end of it.

Yeah. Not even close. The PS3 had a good run, and wasn't discontinued before its time (VB), nor did it force sony out of the console race (Since the saturn killed any hope of the dreamcast being a success). It could have been much, much worse. And I'm sure there are plenty more examples of worse, absolutely failed attempts at hardware.

 

[Hero]

Yeah. Not even close.

Huh?

In terms of money lost, you're right, it's not even close. PS3 was a fucking disaster.

It lost a metric shit-ton of money - is presumably what he means. Although, I don't know who wins in the moneypit competition between it and the original XBOX off the top of my head.

Actually, it might be close between the original Xbox and PS3. Difference is that MS was fully aware of how much money they were going to lose upfront to buy into the industry for the longterm while Sony was hubris, 599, Ridge Racer, etc.

 

[Triple U]

In terms of money lost, you're right, it's not even close. PS3 was a fucking disaster.

Im pretty sure XBOX loss more.

Actually, it might be close between the original Xbox and PS3. Difference is that MS was fully aware of how much money they were going to lose upfront to buy into the industry for the longterm while Sony was hubris, 599, Ridge Racer, etc

So you're saying that Sony had no idea that they were gonna lose $300 or so a console? LOL if you believe that...

 

[JoeM86]

Im pretty sure XBOX loss more.

I'm not so sure. Someone here stated that Sony was reporting losses such as this in the gaming division for a 2 month periods after the PS3. That's really significant. I'm unsure the Xbox came to that level

 

[PshycoNinja]

CEO's that ruin their company beyond their ability to recover is reason enough to give them the ousting, so we can agree on that then.

Yes we can.

The PS3 is the worst hardware failure story in the history of the industry. For the majority of the generation they were pretty much irrelevant but they still managed to come back by the end of it.

Yes but people paid for that mistake. Most notably Phil Harrison. He was basically forced to resign after the failed launch. Once he was gone the PS3 flourished.

Wii U is not doing very well but it's still extremely early to call it. After this holiday season we'll have a much clearer picture on how the next few years play out.

If third parties don't start helping then it will be extremely hard for Nintendo to come back with the U.

Haha what? First of all Bravely Default is being published by Nintendo outside of Japan so they won't see any money from that unless Nintendo cut them a deal to secure the rights so we have no way of knowing for sure but I doubt it will factor into it.

Lightning Returns might do okay in Japan but it will do worse than XIII-2 and bomb everywhere else. The series has stagnated. I would argue that people don't really care about Kingdom Hearts outside of Japan except for a small fanbase. You can thank Square-Enix making endless spin-offs and side-stories on different platforms for that.

And you're kidding yourself if you think XIV isn't going to bomb. The MMO market has changed drastically from what it used to be and I don't see Square-Enix adapting to it. Outside of WoW there is no other pay to play MMO game that has launched in the past four years that were successful.

So let's add it up. Two HD remasters, another sequel in the XIII story and an MMO relaunch is supposed to bring them profitability?

Hahaha no. Square gets money for every sell. Just because Nintendo is publishing doesn't mean Square gets zero dollars. All it means is that Nintendo gets a big cut of the money it does make.

I have very little hope for LR. It will sell poorly for a Final Fantasy title but it will still be profitable. I hate to say that too because I hate this Lightning Saga.

XIV costs have been factored into the last two FY reports. So anything Final Fantasy XIV makes will be mostly profit so that will factor well into the next FY report.

And yes the HD remasters will do very well. It will be major profit too seeing how with KHHD it was mostly a few programmers that brought that game up. We know development costs were low for it. FFX were relatively low too. And we know X HD will do well everywhere. So all in all it actually looks like its going to be a profitable year for them.

 

[Triple U]

I'm not so sure. Someone here stated that Sony was reporting losses such as this in the gaming division for a 2 month periods after the PS3. That's really significant. I'm unsure the Xbox came to that level

PS3 is measured at 4.7 billion.

Xbox:

When Microsoft first launched Xbox it was considered an epic failure that cost the company billions of dollars.

Yesterday, Microsoft execs released a bunch of stats on just how big a business Xbox has become.

“Microsoft lost $6-billion to $10-billion on Xbox,” former Microsoft executive Joachim Kempin recently told ReadWrite’s Dan Lyons, who still considers it a “crummy” product and a distraction for Microsoft.

 

[z0m3le]

I doubt these analysts known important things like DD numbers, which have been very high for Nintendo as per their direct. I would probably wait on the real numbers later today as 189million could see a dramatic drop in that number just considering what we (and the analysts) don't know.

As for Iwata needing to worry, I mean shouldn't he be worried about the performance of the platforms he launches? 3DS has turned around and thanks to a huge line up of software this year, it will probably pull some pretty crazy numbers FE has increased 3DS sales in Europe by ~50% iirc which is pretty big.

Wii U of course needs software and considering this is Nintendo, it will get great software, eventually. If that doesn't come until the last half of the year he might be short on the 100 Billion Yen, but considering that the Yen has fallen ~23% against the USD since the Wii U launched and it isn't expected to recover this year, it isn't quite as impossible as people might make it out to be. Certainly Nintendo is going to have to work hard on recovering the Wii U, but it looks like they are moving in the right direction, just hopefully it is in time to make investors happy because despite the delays I think both the 3DS and Wii U will end up becoming great platforms for developers and gamers alike. (talking about the GDC announcements regarding the Wii U here)

 

[QaaQer]

Why wouldn't they use the gamepad?

haha, I meant touchscreen stuff.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

It lost a metric shit-ton of money - is presumably what he means. Although, I don't know who wins in the moneypit competition between it and the original XBOX off the top of my head.

It's about even right now, but PS3 will continue to sell for a good few years and wipe a couple of billion off its losses. It is not going to be the biggest failure for sales or profits (losses) by the end of the generation. The biggest problem is going to be accurate measurement, but we can get a decent estimate from working out shipments, ASP and gross margins

 

[JoeM86]

PS3 is measured at 4.7 billion.

Xbox:

Sweet merciful crap.

And yet people are on about Nintendo for their losses which are like 10% that (counting the multiple years of losses)??

 

[shinra-bansho]

Actually, it might be close between the original Xbox and PS3. Difference is that MS was fully aware of how much money they were going to lose upfront to buy into the industry for the longterm while Sony was hubris, 599, Ridge Racer, etc.

You're right in that Microsoft had a very specific goal in buying their way into the industry. Although, iirc, there was also some poor decision making with regard to their deal with NVIDIA that contributed to their losses, and that's part of why they changed vendors.

With regard to Sony's losses. I don't really know what they were thinking. Consider this: Had the PS3 not sold as abysmally as it did, those losses would have been even higher due to those large negative margins on the hardware. Were they banking on a high tie ratio? Then where was the software? It was just failure at all levels in terms of planning and execution. Although, I've seen it stated on here Kutaragi hid the cost of the PS3, although haven't been able to verify it, which may explain some of the dumbness if true.

 

[Celine]

No, but absolving him of responsibility for games not being ready sooner is ludicrous. He's the top man. He's ultimately responsible when internal development teams struggle and can't get games out the door in a reasonable fashion. Why did this process take over two years? Understand, this is going to be the third E3 that the Wii U has been shown at, and the retail market at the time of E3 for Wii U will consist of two first-party games. TWO. NintendoLand (which was a pack-in for some) and NSMBU. That's it. Game & Wario hits after E3, then Pikmin well after that.

Current Nintendo software proposition for WiiU is really baffling indeed.
Seems almost as they didn't won't to push it (in comparison GC had the first few months had Luigi Mansion, Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2, Smash Bros Melee, Wave Race 2).
Surely Iwata must be consider responsible for it.

Yet it's too early to call for his head, until we witness how the generation will unfold.

Also I am baffled by whom on GAF or outside lately seem to herald "old" Nintendo as some sort of magical and infallible entity despite the current "problems" are actually atavic ones (and basically depend on Nintendo nature itself, love it or hate it).