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[krizzx]

I'm pretty sure PS4 will have better levels of geometry while Wii U probably would not.

Exept the Wii U did and does. They added geometry, enhanced shading and made the frame rate more stable in Trine 2 Director's cut(launch port). This is why it can't run on the 360/PS3 anymore without downgrades.

The basic modal for Bayonetta in Bayonetta 2 was also shown to have over 5 times as many polygons as it did in the 360/PS3 version.

 

[Mildudon]

The basic modal for Bayonetta in Bayonetta 2 was also shown to have over 5 times as many polygons as it did in the 360/PS3 version.

Where does this info come from?

 

[Meelow]

Exept the Wii U did and does. They added geometry, enhanced shading and made the frame rate more stable in Trine 2 Director's cut(launch port). This is why it can't run on the 360/PS3 anymore without downgrades.

The basic modal for Bayonetta in Bayonetta 2 was also shown to have over 5 times as many polygons as it did in the 360/PS3 version.[/QUOTE]

Where does this info come from?

It's in the Bayonetta 2 Dev Trailer.

 

[Log4Girlz]

The basic modal for Bayonetta in Bayonetta 2 was also shown to have over 5 times as many polygons as it did in the 360/PS3 version.

^^ nm answered.

That's good. Let's see if everything else holds up and we find out resolution and framerate when it finally releases.

 

[ForeverZero]

Exept the Wii U did and does. They added geometry, enhanced shading and made the frame rate more stable in Trine 2 Director's cut(launch port). This is why it can't run on the 360/PS3 anymore without downgrades.

The basic modal for Bayonetta in Bayonetta 2 was also shown to have over 5 times as many polygons as it did in the 360/PS3 version.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

But thinking about it some more, I was watching the bird tech demo again (which was running on underclocked/early dev kits) and it still looks nice. If that demo is anything to go by Wii U will have some decent looking graphics IMO.

 

[Mildudon]

It's in the Bayonetta 2 Dev Trailer.

I can't seem to find it in the video. what time is it mentioned in the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vktay07lNM8

 

[Darryl]

I can't seem to find it in the video. what time is it mentioned in the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vktay07lNM8

you can't find Bayonetta in that video?

 

[chaosblade]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47294548&postcount=371

Looks like it's from the animation at the end of the video. May or may not be the gameplay model.

 

[Darryl]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47294548&postcount=371

Looks like it's from the animation at the end of the video. May or may not be the gameplay model.

someone from B3D had pulled Ayane from the Wii U Ninja Gaiden and it also had a very high poly count

 

[Doczu]

someone from B3D had pulled Ayane from the Wii U Ninja Gaiden and it also had a very high poly count

How much is "very high" compared to the PS3/X360 model? Is there a difference?

 

[The_Intruder]

How much is "very high" compared to the PS3/X360 model? Is there a difference?

The standard of polycount on 360/ps3 is around 20000.

You can check here : http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43975

 

[Doczu]

The standard of polycount on 360/ps3 is around 20000.

You can check here : http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43975

So 60k for one model is a lot. Nice.

 

[phosphor112]

someone from B3D had pulled Ayane from the Wii U Ninja Gaiden and it also had a very high poly count

Not that different from some of the models in DoA5.

Dead or Alive 5
Leifang (C8) - 32,497
Kasumi (armored) - 65,303, weapons - 14,046
Mila - 40,398
Pai Chan - 29,379
Ryu Hayabusa - 30,613
Sarah Bryant - 30,411
Tina (swim suit) - 34,804

If someone can get the numbers for the armored Ayane, that would be good. We only have those cloaked numbers.

Ninja Gaiden 3
Ayane (cloaked) - 31,364
Momiji - 58,158
Ryu Hayabusa (Kimono) - 22,438
Ryu Hayabusa (Evil) - 30,875
Ryu Hayabusa (Infected, shirtless) - 35,717
Ryu Hayabusa (Infected) - 36,089

 

[krizzx]

Not that different from some of the models in DoA5.



If someone can get the numbers for the armored Ayane, that would be good. We only have those cloaked numbers.

It is "very" different from DOA5 as that is an entirely different game. DOA5 is a game with usually no more than 2-4 characters on screen doing nothing but fighting. The polygons counts of game with such little going on would be naturally higher than those of a full scale action game.

Virtua Fighter 5, Arcade/PS3/X360, 2006
Character – ~40,000 with diffuse, specular and normal maps
Background – 100,000 – 300,000 polygons

It would be like saying the polygon count is the same for Bowser in Mario Galaxy as it is for Bowser in Mario Kart Wii just because they are the same character.

What exactly are you singling out between the two games?

 

[fabricated backlash]

^^ nm answered.

That's good. Let's see if everything else holds up and we find out resolution and framerate when it finally releases.

Since it's a Platinum in-House project I'd be surprised if they'd settle for less than 60 +/- 5 fps.

 

[phosphor112]

I see what you are trying to do.

It is "very" different from DOA5 as that is an entirely different game. DOA5 is a game with usually no more than 2-4 characters on screen doing nothing but fighting. The polygons counts of game with such little going on would be naturally higher than those of a full scale action game. It would be like saying the polygon count is the same for Bowser in Mario Galaxy as it is for Bowser in Mario Kart Wii just because they are the same character.

You are comparing things based on unequal similarities. Them being the same character in name in no way speaks of the technical details for one character as it compares to another game. Your comparison is out of scale.

I know you're emotionally invested into this, but lets look at the model that was grabbed from the Wii U.

It was Ayane with her "Armor." The characters with Armor and Multiple pieces of clothing have much higher poly counts.

Look at Ryu. He's around 30k. That's basically him with his basic gear.

Look at Momji, she's at 58k. She's got basic clothing on, but she's got multiple pieces on, just like the Ayane model, which is at 61k.

If someone can just grab the model from the PS3 or 360 version of Ayane, SAME model as the one grabbed, I'm 90% sure you'll get the same result.

 

[The_Intruder]

Since it's a Platinum in-House project I'd be surprised if they'd settle for less than 60 +/- 5 fps.

I hope no screen tearing, you know the first have a lot of it. And if bayo 2 have screen tearing, i will be very disapointed by the hardware...

 

[phosphor112]

Since it's a Platinum in-House project I'd be surprised if they'd settle for less than 60 +/- 5 fps.

I'm sure it'll turn out well.

 

[krizzx]

I know you're emotionally invested into this, but lets look at the model that was grabbed from the Wii U.

It was Ayane with her "Armor." The characters with Armor and Multiple pieces of clothing of much higher poly counts.

Look at Ryu. He's around 30k. That's basically him with his basic gear.

Look at Momji, she's at 58k. She's got basic clothing on, but she's got multiple pieces on, just like the Ayane model, which is at 61k.

If someone can just grab the model from the PS3 or 360 version of Ayane, SAME model as the one grabbed, I'm 90% sure you'll get the same result.

Emotioal investestment? You have the wrong person. I am not the same as you. I'm only interested in the facts, details and potential capability. I'm just calling it out, because I noticed that the only time I ever see you in these discussions is when someone proposes something good about the hardware that exceeds something on the PS3/360.

I'm simply applying details between your comparisons that you are not voicing much in the same manner, since you seem to sometimes apply/ignore details or outright deny them depending on whether or not they are convenient. I'm not saying that what you are proposing cannot be, but I question their accuracy given what I've seen to date.

 

[Darryl]

I know you're emotionally invested into this, but lets look at the model that was grabbed from the Wii U.

It was Ayane with her "Armor." The characters with Armor and Multiple pieces of clothing of much higher poly counts.

Look at Ryu. He's around 30k. That's basically him with his basic gear.

Look at Momji, she's at 58k. She's got basic clothing on, but she's got multiple pieces on, just like the Ayane model, which is at 61k.

If someone can just grab the model from the PS3 or 360 version of Ayane, SAME model as the one grabbed, I'm 90% sure you'll get the same result.

dunno what you tryin to prove here. those models are damn impressive as well on the PS3/360 as well. i was just throwing that out there because i felt it was relevant to the bayo2 model discussion

 

[lwilliams3]

So 60k for one model is a lot. Nice.

Crazy thing is that is not the worse one:

Dumping some numbers,

Polygon Numbers For Assorted Games.

Doom 3 - DoomGuy 4,444 polygons
Darksiders 1 and 2 - War 10,442 polygons
Bioshock Infinite - The handyman 17,131 polygons
Bioshock Infinite - Elizabeth 21,592 polygons, 11,170 polys for the head.
Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge - Kasumi (Tropical Sailor outfit) 35,588 polygons
Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge - Ayane (Blossom outfit) 122, 883 polygons. (most of the polys are used on tracing the outfit.)

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1728755&postcount=1389

Just to clarify, I believe these figures are from the PS3/360 port.

 

[krizzx]

Crazy thing is that is not the worse one:


http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1728755&postcount=1389

Just to clarify, I believe these figures are from the PS3/360 port.

I've always wondered why so much more effort is put into the heads of character modals than the rest of the body or the environment. It feels like such a waste to me, though that is off topic.

Does anyone have the polygon counts for ZombiU? I've always thought that game showed a huge increase in geometry over the games I usually see from the last gen.

Whenever I compare it Left 4 Dead, the environmental geometry, character detail, texture res and object count looks miles more advanced.

 

[lwilliams3]

I've always wondered why so much more effort is put into the heads of character modals than the rest of the body or the environment. It feels like such a waste to me, thought that is off topic.

Does anyone have the polygon counts for ZombiU?

The face is by far the most important part of a character model, as that is what people focus on when determining how good the character looks. For women, there also seems to be a high focus on the chest, especially for these models. Just look at the focus for Ayane's.. nipples.

Hands and fingers are also important if their is a lot of camera focus on then.

 

[phosphor112]

Emotioal investestment? You have the wrong person. I am not the same as you. I'm only interested in the facts, details and potential capability. I'm just calling it out, because I noticed that the only time I ever see you in these discussions is when someone proposes something good about the hardware that exceeds something on the PS3/360.

I'm simply applying details between your comparisons that you are not voicing much in the same manner, since you seem to sometimes apply/ignore details or outright deny them depending on whether or not they are convenient. I'm not saying that what you are proposing cannot be, but I question their accuracy given what I've seen to date.

IIRC you were the one thinking that a crowdsourced game, needing funding, was running on a Wii U? Yeah, those are some cold hard facts. The idea that they'd have (and show) the Wii U version for a reveal is silly.

Also, I've NEVER said the Wii U was only "on par" or even more silly "worse" than PS360. It is 100% no doubt more powerful "overall." CPU might be "worse" (we don't really know yet), but the GPU power is undoubtedly better.

dunno what you tryin to prove here. those models are damn impressive as well on the PS3/360 as well. i was just throwing that out there because i felt it was relevant to the bayo2 model discussion

Oh, if you're selling the idea that Bayo 2 is pushing similar polys? I'd believe it. I don't see why not.

 

[krizzx]

The face is by far the most important part of a character model, as that is what people focus on when determining how good the character looks. For women, there also seems to be a high focus on the chest, especially for these models. Just look at the focus for Ayane's.. nipples.

Indeed, that does seem to be the case. I've always been more interested in details environments and clothing. Makes me wonder what the polygon count for the faces in Other M were. http://www.metroid-database.com/mom/screens/other_m_09.jpg http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100819042334/metroid/images/1/13/GF_07_Platoon.jpg. Those faces had to be pushing some geometry.

How do you go about extracting modals form games? I want to extract the ZombiU models from ZombiU.

 

[lwilliams3]

Indeed, that does seem to be the case. I've always been more interested in details environments and clothing. Makes me wonder what the polygon count for the faces in Other M were. http://www.metroid-database.com/mom/screens/other_m_09.jpg http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100819042334/metroid/images/1/13/GF_07_Platoon.jpg. Those faces had to be pushing some geometry.

How do you go about extracting modals form games? I want to extract the ZombiU models from ZombiU.

It is actually in that thread I posted. Check out the first post on that thread for a summary list. There is some nice info in there. IIRC, Other M models for Samus and M was around 15k, which are very high for the Wii.

 

[gemoran4]

IIRC you were the one thinking that a crowdsourced game, needing funding, was running on a Wii U? Yeah, those are some cold hard facts. The idea that they'd have (and show) the Wii U version for a reveal is silly.

I actually don't think that was an outlandish claim. In the 9 minute gameplay video it showed wii u buttons when you stood close to somebody and a thing on the bottom on the screen popped up and said "press b to interact" (or something like that). I think a lot of people thought that what was shown was wii u footage.

 

[phosphor112]

I actually don't think that was an outlandish claim. In the 9 minute gameplay video it showed wii u buttons when you stood close to somebody and a thing on the bottom on the screen popped up and said "press b to interact" (or something like that). I think a lot of people thought that what was shown was wii u footage.

It's not hard to overlay whatever button images in a demo.

Watch_Dogs demo at PS4 reveal had Dualshock buttons being shown, but it ran on PC that ran "similar" technology.

 

[Wishmaster92]

It is actually in that thread I posted. Check out the first post on that thread for a summary list. There is some nice info in there. IIRC, Other M models for Samus and M was around 15k, which are very high for the Wii.

To me the Samus in metroid prime 3 tops the other m model 3 fold, just my opinion though i know they have different artstyles and other m is mostly 3rd person, but i hated that model. Can't wait to see what Retro comes up with next. Anyone got the polycount for samus in mp3?

Edit: Nvm found them

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Samus - 18,962

Metroid Prime: Other M
Samus (Varia Suit) - 15,280

 

[InfiniDragon]

Crazy thing is that is not the worse one:


http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1728755&postcount=1389

Just to clarify, I believe these figures are from the PS3/360 port.

Wow, Elizabeth is only 20k? I looovvve her model, I wish I could make a face that expressive and technically good, especially on that budget.

If Kasumi is 60k Team NINJA got put on notice. XD

 

[ArchangelWest]

I actually don't think that was an outlandish claim. In the 9 minute gameplay video it showed wii u buttons when you stood close to somebody and a thing on the bottom on the screen popped up and said "press b to interact" (or something like that). I think a lot of people thought that what was shown was wii u footage.

And in the end, it was stated by the developer that there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the PC version and the Wii U version, so even if it was running on dog crap, this is meaningless. The Wii U version will look like that or better, depending on how much more work is put into it between now and release. PC and Wii U will look comparable.

 

[gemoran4]

It's not hard to overlay whatever button images in a demo.

Watch_Dogs demo at PS4 reveal had Dualshock buttons being shown, but it ran on PC that ran "similar" technology.

fair enough, but it kind of seems unnecessary. I mean i guess it's a subtle way to show it's coming to the Wii U, but I don't think it really would make much of a difference. They would have been better off just using PC controls in the demo and saving themselves the trouble.

 

[Jrs3000]

Just look at the focus for Ayane's.. nipples.

Ecchi characters is what sales in japan LOL

 

[krizzx]

Ecchi characters is what sales in japan LOL

But that game didn't sell very well if I remember correctly.

Either way, that has no bearing on Bayonetta 2 as that is being built from the ground up for the Wii U and we have visual confirmation of a polygon count increase by more than 500%.

It never even crossed my mind that there were any technical enhancements to Ninja Gaiden 3 for the Wii U over the PS3/360. I always thought it was a straight port with some added content that was designed to be later put back on the PS3/360, and nothing more. Not much better than any other straight port.

My minimum expectations of the Wii U GPU potential is still the Froblins demo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7PlQ-q17tM

These are my expectations for the PS4 and Xbox3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gIq-XD5uA8

I think this would be the most reasonble assessment of the next gen console's strengths and differences based purely on the GPUs.

 

[Wishmaster92]

But that game didn't sell very well if I remember correctly.

Either way, that has no bearing on Bayonetta 2 as that is being built from the ground up for the Wii U and we have visual confirmation of a polygon count increase by more than 500%.

It never even crossed my mind that there were any technical enhancements to Ninja Gaiden 3 for the Wii U over the PS3/360. I always thought it was a straight port with some added content that was designed to be later put back on the PS3/360, and nothing more. Not much better than any other straight port.

My minimum expectations of the Wii U GPU potential is still the Froblins demo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7PlQ-q17tM

These are my expectations for the PS4 and Xbox3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gIq-XD5uA8

I think this would be the most reasonble assessment of the next gen console's strengths and differences based purely on the GPUs.

The wii u version seems to have more noticeable bloom and uses msaa instead of fxaa:

Now this is the original ng3 vs the wii u version, maybe they upgraded the visuals when they released razors edge on the ps3/360 to wii u standard?

 

[tipoo]

somebody on TV tropes seems to think that the clock speeds of the system were increased after the most recent update

Then the wall power draw would go significantly higher, you may even be able to tell from the heat output. A clock speed jump that large would change the thermal characteristics a LOT. Anyone with a kill-a-watt therefore can discount this easily.

 

[krizzx]

The wii u version seems to have more noticeable bloom and uses msaa instead of fxaa:

Now this is the original ng3 vs the wii u version, maybe they upgraded the visuals when they released razors edge on the ps3/360 to wii u standard?

That is honestly not much of a difference at all, especially when you consider what we've seen from Trine 2: Director's Cut, NFS: Most Wanted U and Deus Ex: Director's Cut. Those are just effortless increase. We know that the Wii U is capable of so much more.

It seems that we aren't making anymore headway on the GPU dissection for the time being. We need more material to analyze. I wish Nintendo would do another Wii U direct.

 

[Smurfman256]

I hope no screen tearing, you know the first have a lot of it. And if bayo 2 have screen tearing, i will be very disapointed by the hardware...

don't most games on Wii U have V-sync on anyway (I had a theory that Nintendo basically requires devs to turn on v-sync).

 

[phosphor112]

That is honestly not much of a difference at all, especially when you consider what we've seen from Trine 2: Director's Cut, NFS: Most Wanted U and Deus Ex: Director's Cut. Those are just effortless increase. We know that the Wii U is capable of so much more.

It seems that we aren't making anymore headway on the GPU dissection for the time being. We need more material to analyze. I wish Nintendo would do another Wii U direct.

Indeed, the esram alone would show a big upgrade over the 360 in post processed effects. Bayo 2 will be a great example of what the Wii U can do early on.

 

[frankie_baby]

don't most games on Wii U have V-sync on anyway (I had a theory that Nintendo basically requires devs to turn on v-sync).

Most do though a couple don't, darksiders 2 being the worst offender

 

[ForeverZero]

Is the chance that the edram's bandwith is in the triple digits low?

And would the bandwith be enough if its below 100 GB?

 

[gemoran4]

Most do though a couple don't, darksiders 2 being the worst offender

darksiders 2 is awful on the wii u. The framerate on one of the boss battles got so bad for me that it basically unplayable. It's okay at times, but i don't think they did a great job with the port

 

[poodpick]

I always felt this way also. I know most will say they don't expect any visual showcase from Bayo2 but I think its going to be a surprise title and will be an early showing of potential of Wii U graphical capabilities.

Doesn't platinum always aim for 60fps? Not sure whether they will be able to pull of something amazing, but it will look better than the first game for sure.

 

[frankie_baby]

Is the chance that the edram's bandwith is in the triple digits low?

And would the bandwith be enough if its below 100 GB?

Well the most likely numbers are 70gbs or 140gbs

 

[Vermillion]

Can't wait to see games that really show off the Wii U's ability.

 

[Vampirolol]

Can't wait to see games that really show off the Wii U's ability.

3D Mario is near the corner, and maybe something else.

 

[Smurfman256]

3D Mario is near the corner, and maybe something else.

They'll DEFINITELY show off Wind Waker HD (or whatever the hell the subtitle's gonna be) and maybe a gameplay Trailer for ZeldaU.

 

[Angel Whispers]

I always felt this way also. I know most will say they don't expect any visual showcase from Bayo2 but I think its going to be a surprise title and will be an early showing of potential of Wii U graphical capabilities.

Pretty sure that in a Wii U Nintendo Direct, there was a monster at the end of the Bayonetta 2 footage which was confirmed as real-time footage? This picture:

Bayonetta 2 Director Yusuke Hashimoto said as much in a tweet

Bayonetta 2 Trailer from Nintendo Direct (23rd Jan 2013).

 

[Smurfman256]

Pretty sure that in a Wii U Nintendo Direct, there was a monster at the end of the Bayonetta 2 footage which was confirmed as real-time footage? This picture:

Bayonetta 2 Director Yusuke Hashimoto said as much in a tweet

Bayonetta 2 Trailer from Nintendo Direct (23rd Jan 2013).

I wanna see THAT @60Hz.

 

[Meelow]

They'll DEFINITELY show off Wind Waker HD (or whatever the hell the subtitle's gonna be) and maybe a gameplay Trailer for ZeldaU.

I doubt Wind Waker HD will be the game that shows off the Wii U's power, 3D Mario and Retro's game most likely be the first, Super Smash Bros. 4 is probably not even close to be finished yet so it will have improvements over time.

And why does everyone expect Zelda Wii U at E3 2013? Last thing I expect.