BillRiccio
Member
McMahon and Trump are gonna be on the Today show tomorrow
03/26 Wrasslin Discussion - Screw you No Way Out Buyers Edition
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Keyser Soze
Member
I was ready to declare Cena's match great till he won it...
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
Shard said:
Yeah, I really liked it.
amodelmerol
Member
Great PPV, but average WM
Is it just me or the "WM mystique" is all but gone?
Is it just me or the "WM mystique" is all but gone?
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
the build-up to this year's wrestlemania was horrible IMO
Nameless
Member
Guzim said:
QFT.. The time wasted by filler matches like Khali vs. Kane, Benoit vs. MVP, and the Lumberjill match could've been used for 2 or 3 GOOOD matches. As I said before they should've taken The Hardy's, Ege, and Orton out of MITB and replace them with Carlito & Nitro(6 people MITB ftw) make Hardy's vs. London and Kendrick in a gimmick match, and have Edge vs. Orton for another high profile match on the show...
Ahh well, I didn't pay for it.
Outcast2004
Banned
My friend and I said the same thing on the way back from the sports bar. Aside from the MITB match, it felt just like any other PPV.Guzim said:
What didnt help was that every match was pretty damn predictable as far as outcome goes.
One thing struck me as odd. Cena won and the crowd seemed like they just didn't care. Not booing, not cheering... but indifference. No heel switches, nothing....just status quo.
Tchu-Espresso
likes mayo on everthing and can't dance
I didnt watch the match so i dont know how it worked in the circumstances, but im all for wwe wrestlers being more than two dimensional when it comes to finishing opponents. This is something ROH is much much better with.Guzim said:
Im sick of a match ending by either their one big move, a foreign object shot, or with the feet on the ropes.
Nameless
Member
Guzim said:
It was a good match yeah, Benoit is not capapble of having a bad match, but it seemed like something we would see on SD, or on an SD PPV at best, not wrestle friggin mania. That was the problem with half of the card, it wasn't different from anything we usually see. The Originals vs. New Breed match for example SHOULD'VE been extreme rules with a flaming table spot atleast, but it was no different from the tag matches they have every week on sci-fi.
Wrestlemania should go above and beyond to distinguish itself from the 13 other PPVs they run each year, but its slowly degenerating into just another WWE event..Just longer and more expensive.
The Faceless Master
Member
the psychology was that MVP overtrained in crossface defense and got owned by something else...Guzim said:
I wonder if they took Edge out of the MitB match so that he can still claim to never losing at Mania since he wasn't in the match.
And I enjoyed pretty much every match except Khali/Kane and the women's title match.
The er... ECW match was decent.
And the order of matches was just all over the place.
And I enjoyed pretty much every match except Khali/Kane and the women's title match.
The er... ECW match was decent.
And the order of matches was just all over the place.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Outcast2004 said:
I thought it was a good PPV. Since there are sooooo many PPVs, WM isn't really that different. Usually a big match involving a McMahon, MITB, and the 2 title matches are about the only differences for WM. But now with shared PPVs coming down, WM is going to get alot less special. But if they can keep pulling McMahon/Trump shit out of their ass, the buyrates will be good.
I was cool with every finish, but you are right, there wasn't really a "moment" this PPV. I guess it will be known as the WM when Vince got shaved, but not really something that is in-ring, though will get tons of mainstream press. I think that going forward, they are going to have to make a "moment" for every WM. Like someone turning on someone else or an incredible spot involving main eventers. Something to make you remember. But with all that said, this was a good PPV. I will probably get the DVD.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Penguin said:
I think MiTB had incredible spots, but we see them or some variation every year. Honestly, I can do without MITB as it just seems like a stunt show. Maybe I am just old school or something. When I say a WM monent, I mean something like Austin turning heel (though that was a disaster), or HHH turning on DX, or Owen beating Bret or HBK coming down from the rafter for his match. Something like that, something you will remember years from now.
Barrage, I agree that was a hell of a match. That is the main reason I am buying the DVD.
About the build-up to WM, the WWE.com stuff building up to the PPV has been tremendous. Shane can never leave WWE.com or the DVD department. Those to outlets are an incredible strength for this company.
Honestly? I think shane should be the head of the company. He has great vision, yet he also respects the tradition of wrestling and understand how to mix both old and new. Stephanie, on the other hand, doesn't have a clue as to what people want, and vince has his head up his ass.dskillzhtown said:
Just got back. Some really shit matches but the premier matches really brought it. Plus I have a newfound well of annoyance for Divas, which is good.
Greatest beatdown of the night?
Tie for first: Edge getting carted away after getting destroyed from a ladder by one of the Hardy's. Also the fan that jumped the barricade and got into the ring during the HBK match. The ref ****ed him up in the ring and the security guard on the ground blasted him with a haymaker and threw him headfirst into the barricade, then picked him up and rolled him over it. Simply awesome. This ain't the NBA, mother****ers-- these people **** you up when you mess with the people on the court!
The Vince/Trump match was pretty fun. Undertaker winning it was totally badass! Kane/Khali match was getting heckled in my section with people saying "DID THEY CANCEL HEAT TONITE OR SOMETHING?!" :lol
And oh yeah, I feel bad for Cena. He seems like a nice guy who works his ass off and has absolutely no chance of getting over with the fans. I saw the poll they showed before the main event and there's no way 70% of people liked him more than HBK. Not a chance in hell.
Oh, and big dap for having my first WWE ppv also allow me to get to watch a match with Tommy Dreamer, RVD and Sabu winning under an ECW banner, as fake as it may seem.
Greatest beatdown of the night?
Tie for first: Edge getting carted away after getting destroyed from a ladder by one of the Hardy's. Also the fan that jumped the barricade and got into the ring during the HBK match. The ref ****ed him up in the ring and the security guard on the ground blasted him with a haymaker and threw him headfirst into the barricade, then picked him up and rolled him over it. Simply awesome. This ain't the NBA, mother****ers-- these people **** you up when you mess with the people on the court!
The Vince/Trump match was pretty fun. Undertaker winning it was totally badass! Kane/Khali match was getting heckled in my section with people saying "DID THEY CANCEL HEAT TONITE OR SOMETHING?!" :lol
And oh yeah, I feel bad for Cena. He seems like a nice guy who works his ass off and has absolutely no chance of getting over with the fans. I saw the poll they showed before the main event and there's no way 70% of people liked him more than HBK. Not a chance in hell.
Oh, and big dap for having my first WWE ppv also allow me to get to watch a match with Tommy Dreamer, RVD and Sabu winning under an ECW banner, as fake as it may seem.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
GaimeGuy said:
Shane needs to stay where he is because if he moves to TV, then he has to play all the political games. You have to deal with all the egos, deal with all the people that don't want to job and road agents screwing workers they don't like, etc. Him doing the DVDs and the site is an area he is free from all that and can just do the best job he can. Without all the barriers. If I thought Shane could go to the TV side and do as much work as he is doing now, then I would be all for it. But I highly doubt that is the case. Every wrestling book I have read has said that 50% of the battle is dealing with BS.
I don't feel bad for Cena. He is a multi-millionaire, has a ton of fans and seems like he is having a good time. As for the boos, that is just part of it. I mean, I read reports of people booing Cena while the cameras were on, but during the dark match, he gets cheers from the entire arena. Everything I have read about Cena is he is the Champ Vince wants. Gets heat, carried himself with class, dresses with class when out of the ring, does a ton of charity work, always signs autographs, just a great representative for the WWE, and by the way he brings in a ton of money. I could easily see HHH/Cena next WM with Cena finally dropping the belt and getting some rest.
whytemyke said:
The reason why people don't like cena is because he's obviously trying to copy the rock inside the ring and on the mic. What people want to hear is the freestyle that Cena originally used when he got to WWE (after the initial debut feud he had with angle, where he didn't have a gimmick). And no one wants to see Cena overcome the odds time after time; He's a pretty bad wrestler when it comes down to it, and to see him go over guys like Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho, and make people such as Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, and HHH tap out to one of the most poorly executed STSes in professional wrestling history, week in, and week out, well, it gets pretty annoying, and no one finds it believable.
With guys like Austin and the Rock, people ENJOYED seeing them overcome the odds, because their in-ring stuff, while not on the caliber of someone like Hart, Angle, or Benoit, looked somewhat believable. Cena's just sloppy.
Not to mention the fact that, unlike Rock and Austin, Cena ALWAYS overcomes the odds. He NEVER loses. EVER. Rock and Austin overcame the odds a lot, sure, but they also lost a lot, as well.
The excessive push they've been giving cena, coupled with his piss-poor in-ring abilities (which are obvious to any audience member) is what gives Cena the reaction he gets.
If he wants to get better reactions, he should try and polish up his technique. While he may not be able to take out the 5 moves of doom due to booking problems, there's no reason why the other parts of his matches can't be better than they are.
Conrad Link
Member
Whooooooooo Undertaker! 
Wtf is the Royal Rumble winner relegated to half way through the PPV though. :| Should have ended the night on that, would have been much cooler - specially since Cena retained, would have been better to leave on the new champ. Cena/HBK was good though, despite figuring it was Cena to win all along. And a tap finish is laaaaaame, the crowd need to count the 1,2,3 *explode in cheering* like in the Undertakers matches to end on (unless its someone like Benoit/Hart/Sting etc who have just use submissions as their proper finish all along).
The whole thing was an extremely predictable show, I called every match (no foolin' I really did), MITB wasted 2 or 3 people that should have have singles matches to make the show better, cause the rest of the crap was very..... crap, stuff I'd expect on a regular PPV not WM. I thought Edge vs Orton would have been a shoe in for a match. :\
The divas at ringisde didn't even do anything, the match was over and its like yeah that was pointless. Is MJ injured? She's one of the few womans wreslters I actually really enjoy watching wrestle.
lol @ the bell ringing at the 2 count in the hair vs hair match. :lol :lol :lol And geez Trump might be a good business man but he can't sell a stunner to save his life. :lol :lol I knew Vince's fed would have to have the last word.
No stupid run ins ruining it, but waaaaay too much filler crap, way too much dumb stuff no one cares about in the under-card, and it was stupid having the pop of the night in the middle. :|
Still, I'm happy cause:
Whooooooooo Undertaker!
Wtf is the Royal Rumble winner relegated to half way through the PPV though. :| Should have ended the night on that, would have been much cooler - specially since Cena retained, would have been better to leave on the new champ. Cena/HBK was good though, despite figuring it was Cena to win all along. And a tap finish is laaaaaame, the crowd need to count the 1,2,3 *explode in cheering* like in the Undertakers matches to end on (unless its someone like Benoit/Hart/Sting etc who have just use submissions as their proper finish all along).
The whole thing was an extremely predictable show, I called every match (no foolin' I really did), MITB wasted 2 or 3 people that should have have singles matches to make the show better, cause the rest of the crap was very..... crap, stuff I'd expect on a regular PPV not WM. I thought Edge vs Orton would have been a shoe in for a match. :\
The divas at ringisde didn't even do anything, the match was over and its like yeah that was pointless. Is MJ injured? She's one of the few womans wreslters I actually really enjoy watching wrestle.
lol @ the bell ringing at the 2 count in the hair vs hair match. :lol :lol :lol And geez Trump might be a good business man but he can't sell a stunner to save his life. :lol :lol I knew Vince's fed would have to have the last word.
No stupid run ins ruining it, but waaaaay too much filler crap, way too much dumb stuff no one cares about in the under-card, and it was stupid having the pop of the night in the middle. :|
Still, I'm happy cause:
Whooooooooo Undertaker!
eh? When did ESPN get on this kick covering pro wrestling and MMA?
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2821823
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/news/story?id=2821823
Nameless
Member
I started to give Cena his props around 3-4 months ago for improving, but he is still not on the Rock's level. Cena went from promising, to ass, to decent again, during his career. His Raw match vs. Edge back in November is the moment that I mark down where he "stepped' up. I made a most months ago how I thought Cena was improving in the ring and no longer down right sucked. He is one of those guys that needs to stay motivated, though. He showed a lot of potential as an up and comer, but seemed to slack off once he no longer had to work for his spomt however, it seems that all the hate and the boos have once again motivated him to show some passion in the ring as he did 3 years ago.
The Rock wasn't the greatest technical specialist in the world, but he could sell and tell a story in the ring. Cena still needs to work on the former, but he had his first truly classic match tonight.
The only knock I have against Cena these days honestly really isn't his fault. Its just the push that he has been given. I've been watching wrestling for since I was 3 years old(20 years) and outside of Hogan's initial push can't recall a time where the entire roster was fed to a single guy like this.
The Rock wasn't the greatest technical specialist in the world, but he could sell and tell a story in the ring. Cena still needs to work on the former, but he had his first truly classic match tonight.
The only knock I have against Cena these days honestly really isn't his fault. Its just the push that he has been given. I've been watching wrestling for since I was 3 years old(20 years) and outside of Hogan's initial push can't recall a time where the entire roster was fed to a single guy like this.
Conrad Link said:Whooooooooo Undertaker!
was there ever any doubt? he's the dead man...you can't kill a dead man.
the only way i can ever see taker jobbing is when he knows he's retiring...and even then i figure he wouldn't since the "streak" will be the biggest part of his legacy.
this sums it up for me perfectly. I don't hate cena, wouldn't boo him to his face (unless I was marking out), and hold no ill will towards him... but his push is officially old. and in a match where his "moves" were three FU's and two STFU's, compared to Michaels back flipping off the top rope (not even turn buckle mind you), high kicking two people in the face, flying elbows off the turnbuckle, pile driver to the steel stairs (btw, one of the greatest piledrivers in the history of the business.. thank you HBK), etc... it just seems... eh.. like has already been said in this thread:Nameless said:
cena overcame a leg break
overcame brain damage
overcame back damage
all in the same match, to retain
Michaels should have won, and the fact that he didn't isn't a slight against cena, but a slight against creative. we just paid $50 to see The Marine 2, not a wrestling match.
shoplifter
Member
New thread - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149127
unless we want this one to remain for Mania discussion
unless we want this one to remain for Mania discussion
Nameless
Member
borghe said:
Exactly. The other thing how they book him to make people tap. Cena is not a submission wrestler, so it makes him seem too powerful when he beats everyone with a japanese submission hold. It would be like Rey Mysterio beating guys with running powerslams--the extreme no selling doesn't help either. And again I don't blame Cena. I remember reading reports on how Vince went off on Lashley for selling too much in the triple threat match with RVD and Test. It worked for Hogan because it was the 80s, it was during the reign of kayfabe, and WWE style wrestling didn't try to come across as authentic. But seeing a guy get his knee beat down for 10 minutes only to totally no sell it after 15 seconds, or to get friggin PILEDRIVERED on STEEL STEPS only to no sell a few minutes later is going a bit far.
Yep. Every time Cena goes on one of his momentum-shifting power runs that they always have the faces do in a match, your reaction is *groan. Here we go again* because nothing else that happened before that point matters anymore. Any fatigue cena had? Gone. Any sense of urgency? Gone. Any pain in an area that Cena's opponent has been working on for the last 10 minutes? Gone.Nameless said:
Anything that actually happens in a match is completely no-sold by cena. He just goes through the moves, and doesn't bother trying to sell a move or tell a story.
Bret Hart would have a nightmare working with Cena :lol
shoplifter
Member
Triumph Dolomite 1300cc said:
All I really care about at this point is ROH/NOAH/Dragon Gate. I'm going to start getting some IWA-MS, Chikara and PWG though. Good wrestling is still out there if you don't require it to be done in front of 20,000 with elaborate sets and pyro.
unfortunately it's not "still out there". For people like myself who have maybe two hours a week to fast forward through two or three shows, THAT'S why we tune in to RAW and Smackdown. I'm sure all of those promotions kick ass, but I certainly don't have time to hunt them down, drive over a couple of states, or otherwise devote time to making sure I can be there. as far as I'm concerned, WWE and TNA are it.. not because I'm a fanboy, but that is all I reasonably have available to me.shoplifter said:
If you would like to point me out other promotions that I could DVR I would appreciate it. If not then it's pretty pointless to keep mentioning regional promotions as an alternative for most of the fans.
shoplifter
Member
borghe said:If you would like to point me out other promotions that I could DVR I would appreciate it. If not then it's pretty pointless to keep mentioning regional promotions as an alternative for most of the fans.
Unfortunately you're pretty much screwed here, but you can basically blame Vinnie Mac for the lack of wrestling on TV. I get one regional here in Columbus (Cleveland All Pro) but it's very low-level indy for the most part. They do have some bigger name guys come in for one shots every once in a while though. If you get Galavision on your cable system, you can always watch Lucha.
I was DVRing RAW/ECW/SD and skipping the crap, but I was finding I was spending more time skipping stuff than watching, so I've basically quit.
The way I look at it is that whatever money I was spending on WWE PPVs now just goes to feed my ROH/Puro habit. You can get DVDs of lots of Puro stuff for $8 or less since they're basically DVRs of what was shown on TV over there. I don't mind dropping $5 a week or so on something I know I'm going to enjoy. (Yes, I spend more than that, but for $5 you could fill those three hours up with top-to-bottom quality stuff.) There's usually a lot of puro on youtube as well, including fairly recent stuff.
I can tell you that ROH puts matches on Youtube from time to time to help sell DVDs, so you might look at their website. They have sales quite often too, with lots of their older (sometimes into 2006) DVDs for $10.
I can totally understand the not wanting to spend the time to find something or not being willing to drop the cash if you don't have it, but it's easier now than any time since the old regionals all folded (back when WCCW/AWA/NWA all had TV deals) to find good wrestling.
edit: Borghe - do you still live near Milwaukee? If so, ROH is coming to Chicago next month for what should be a really good show. I know it's like 90m-2hrs drive, but it might be worth it if you really want to see some good wrestling live.
Also, SHIMMER runs just outside of Chicago, and is an -awesome- women's fed. They're running a show next weekend.
Keyser Soze
Member
When he used to win EVERY match a year ago I was actually angry at him and I bet loads more people were
at that point WWE had something they would use to turn him heel and make people care about the turn. Nowadays when he wins I just laugh at how stupid it is getting and really just dont care just like most of the crowd last night.
Even if they try and turn him heel now it wont work as the people are just sick of the same stuff.
Right now I feel like we will be stuck with the same Cena until he retires... which is WAYYYYY down the line.
Even if they try and turn him heel now it wont work as the people are just sick of the same stuff.
Right now I feel like we will be stuck with the same Cena until he retires... which is WAYYYYY down the line.
amodelmerol
Member
Cena NEEDS to get injured badly. ASAP
Only then can WWE be good again.
ECW returning to real ECW would be nice too
Only then can WWE be good again.
ECW returning to real ECW would be nice too
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