Every PS4 won't come bundled with an EyeToy after all? Image Inside.

dagamer34 said:
Microphones are dumb inputs, they have no extra silicon to do voice recognition. If it does, that'll be one rather expensive mic, and if it's going to be expensive, I'd rather it not be even more expensive because it has to be small enough to attach to your head. No developer wants to waste cycles translating sounds into voice commands (they won't be any good at it). They'd rather the platform does that for them.
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I'm pretty sure the production costs for a microphone is under 5 dollars if they do it in bulk.
 
Seanspeed said:
I still dont understand how including the Eye in every market but one is enough to save that much money that it covers the costs of the increase in RAM and allows them to sell for $50 cheaper. That seems hard to grasp.
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I can't give you the breakdowns as i'm not in the room. But what Ive been saying about the camera not being included, for months, are leaks from inside Sony.

So my question to you is why do you think you understand what will sell and what won't more than a team of marketers and executives at Sony...
 
Seanspeed said:
Because Kinect isn't an accessory anymore. Its a core part of the system and vision that Microsoft has for the capabilities of the Xbox One. Knowing every consumer has it hooked up and available to use opens up a lot of doors, and with the impressive tech behind it, it could actually be really interesting. Its pushing innovation.

If Sony dont really believe in the Eye that much and dont see it as a core peripheral, then yea, maybe dont include it. But really, why did they even bother then? Its just going to be an afterthought and likely wont do very well and will only receive half-assed support.
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I really don't see Kinect being any more innovative than the wiimote tbh and every wii had one of them in the box.
 
famousmortimer said:
Casuals aren't buying either system... PERIOD. Casuals that want a console either have a wii u or and 360 with kinect. They aren't the people who buy new systems.


The only system which ever sold well to the casual market in its first 18 months is the Wii... and that was due to how cheap it was.
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I would not say this.

There are always "casual" parents who buy systems for their kids for Xmas as soon as they launch.

I do think that far more "hardcore" people buy systems as soon as they launch though.
 
Hmm. Not sure how to feel about this. I can't really disagree with most of you who say its just worthless icing and doesn't really add much to the core experience. I don't have Move or Kinect for my PS3 or 360 and don't really care the Wii (even though I have one). I just want the core experience, AND as someone who's kinda rooting for Sony right now (I'm not a fanboy - it's more of an underdog/return of the former champ thing) I do want to see as low a price point as possible with a single, attractive SKU at launch.

What gets me is that the DS4 has that light built in. Why do that if the camera isn't coming bundled? My guess is that this could be another case where Sony is attempting to learn from a mistake made this gen: the Move required three different pieces to achieve full functionality, the Eye and two controllers (correct me if I'm wrong - as I said I don't own one). So now they could sell the Eye separately knowing that everyone would need ONLY the Eye to get functionality for the stuff like split screen or raising a shield or whatever devs can do with that controller light. And the Move itself still works for even more functionality.

This also makes me believe Sony has some kind of really cool software coming at launch that will be bundled with the Eye. Or at least they should. If they're smart if won't be some shit mini game collection. It needs to appeal to the core. As many have said, WE are the ones who buy this hardware at launch. Not sure what a core-focused Eye title would be at this point. But not bundling it and pushing it with some bullshit casual or mini game title means its DOA from day one. Why go to the trouble of including the LED light (regardless of how cheap it is) on every DS4 if you're just sending the Eye to its death (yet again) from day one?

Oh well. I guess the cost of entry to the PS4 will cheaper. Give me $399, Kaz.
 
RadarScope1 said:
Hmm. Not sure how to feel about this. I can't really disagree with most of you who say its just worthless icing and doesn't really add much to the core experience. I don't have Move or Kinect for my PS3 or 360 and don't really care the Wii (even though I have one). I just want the core experience, AND as someone who's kinda rooting for Sony right now (I'm not a fanboy - it's more of an underdog/return of the former champ thing) I do want to see as low a price point as possible with a single, attractive SKU at launch.

What gets me is that the DS4 has that light built in. Why do that if the camera isn't coming bundled? My guess is that this could be another case where Sony is attempting to learn from a mistake made this gen: the Move required three different pieces to achieve full functionality, the Eye and two controllers (correct me if I'm wrong - as I said I don't own one). So now they could sell the Eye separately knowing that everyone would need ONLY the Eye to get functionality for the stuff like split screen or raising a shield or whatever devs can do with that controller light. And the Move itself still works for even more functionality.

This also makes me believe Sony has some kind of really cool software coming at launch that will be bundled with the Eye. Or at least they should. If they're smart if won't be some shit mini game collection. It needs to appeal to the core. As many have said, WE are the ones who buy this hardware at launch. Not sure what a core-focused Eye title would be at this point. But not bundling it and pushing it with some bullshit casual or mini game title means its DOA from day one. Why go to the trouble of including the LED light (regardless of how cheap it is) on every DS4 if you're just sending the Eye to its death (yet again) from day one?

Oh well. I guess the cost of entry to the PS4 will cheaper. Give me $399, Kaz.
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Your guesses after the bolded are on the mark. But the idea with the bulb is twofold. It does tracking stuff with the Eye, yes... but like the speaker it's also just a very cheap but neat little gimmick for the controller to offload certain functions to. Like the killzone guys said the bulb will flash red when your health is low. Small stuff like that. That bulb probably costs about 20 cents to add. It's not a big deal.
 
ironcreed said:
Yes, I am getting that it is not an accessory anymore. My point is that it was introduced as one, and those who had no use for it at least had the luxury of it not being required. Now, those same people who do not like Kinect are having it forced on them if they want the new Xbox.

Again, while it may be exciting and innovative for some, others simply do not want a mandatory camera that has to be connected in order to use the console... period. Not everyone loves Kinect and the fact that it is now an integrated part of the system does not make it all of the sudden more appealing.
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Just calling it a 'mandatory camera' is grossly devaluing what it is. I sense you're doing that on purpose. Like I said, Microsoft dont see it as an accessory anymore, but an integral part of the console, like a controller is. Whether somebody finds that appealing or not does not change the conversation. Its part of the system and their vision. If its that big of a turn-off, people wont buy it. But to say that its 'not considerate to the consumer' treats it as an accessory, not a part of the system itself. Its like saying that having to use a controller 'isn't considerate to the consumer'. It doesn't work in this instance anymore.
 
One thing is for certain, if PS4 and Xbone has same base price for the less expensive version the former doesn't pack PS Eye, it may be perceived to have less value.
 
Seanspeed said:
Just calling it a 'mandatory camera' is grossly devaluing what it is. I sense you're doing that on purpose. Like I said, Microsoft dont see it as an accessory anymore, but an integral part of the console, like a controller is. Whether somebody finds that appealing or not does not change the conversation. Its part of the system and their vision. If its that big of a turn-off, people wont buy it. But to say that its 'not considerate to the consumer' treats it as an accessory, not a part of the system itself. Its like saying that having to use a controller 'isn't considerate to the consumer'. It doesn't work in this instance anymore.
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god you sound like an aggressive marketer.
 
Seanspeed said:
You could always sell it if you really dont want it. Either way, as a NA customer, you'd be getting less for your money than other people. Its a bum deal.
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It depends on exchange rate. 400 Euros is $519. 400 pounds is $600. But then again, 400 canadian or australian dollars is $382.
 
if the managed to sell the basic console for 349€ will be great!

also this time there is no point in avoiding the basic versione bacause all the ps4 will have a big hdd and wifi.
 
quest said:
Outside the GDDR5 what is cutting edge and expensive in the PS4? This is not PS3 it is a very modest console.
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The APU and the modifications made to it. Nothing of its kind exists on the market. There is no such thing as an 8 core jaguar with a gcn 1.1 (2.0) GPU + access to 8 gbs gddr5 shared memory on the market today.
 
Seanspeed said:
I still dont understand how including the Eye in every market but one is enough to save that much money that it covers the costs of the increase in RAM and allows them to sell for $50 cheaper. That seems hard to grasp.
Click to expand...

I think it's possibly something to do with how they price the systems in different regions.

The EU typically pays more for the console than the US does once it's all converted back. So for example, selling the PS4 in the US might net them a $50 loss, but selling in the EU might work out to only making a $20 loss. So they can afford to bundle more crap in in the EU for the same loss if they wanted to.

I mean, right now 39,999 Yen converts to $399/€306/£262, all tax free prices. But we know with almost certainty that in the EU it will be the same € price as $ price, so if $399 then it would be €399.

If the € tax rate is 20% as it is in a few places then it only takes the price from €306 to €367, the £ price at our 20% VAT rate would take it from £262 to £314. If Sony do as most assume and put a price of $399/€399/£330 or $499/€499/£399 (as would fit previous prices) then they just made a larger profit per item in the EU and the UK than in the US. They can afford to pack a bit more crap in.
#
qa_engineer said:
The APU and the modifications made to it. Nothing of its kind exists on the market. There is no such thing as an 8 core jaguar with a gcn 1.1 (2.0) GPU + access to 8 gbs gddr5 shared memory on the market today.
Click to expand...

The combination is new, but the technology itself isn't exotic like past hardware has been. That's what he means.

The PS3 used Cell and BluRay, both really cutting edge brand new expensive stuff. The PS4 isn't doing anything like that.
 
famousmortimer said:
I can't give you the breakdowns as i'm not in the room. But what Ive been saying about the camera not being included, for months, are leaks from inside Sony.

So my question to you is why do you think you understand what will sell and what won't more than a team of marketers and executives at Sony...
Click to expand...
I never claimed to know that.

Anyways, no offense, but consider me cautious about leaks that get told to us from a user on GAF and gets no media attention elsewhere. Not saying you're wrong, but its not difficult to come up with a theory, spout it as a leak, cross your fingers that you're right and if not, then you've covered your ass with the whole 'it might not be true' escape clause.
 
famousmortimer said:
Your guesses after the bolded are on the mark. But the idea with the bulb is twofold. It does tracking stuff with the Eye, yes... but like the speaker it's also just a very cheap but neat little gimmick for the controller to offload certain functions to. Like the killzone guys said the bulb will flash red when your health is low. [/b[Small stuff like that. That bulb probably costs about 20 cents to add. It's not a big deal.
Click to expand...

Isn't that LED on the back of the controller? How are you supposed to see it flashing red?

My issue with them putting that LED on the back of the controller is the reflection in my TV, bit of a design annoyance.
 
HiredN00bs said:
1990-2005 Nintendo
2005-2013 Microsoft
2014-? You're up, Sony.
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I don't think I understand this. Or maybe I do and I don;t understand how you got to that.

Monty Mole said:
Isn't that LED on the back of the controller? How are you supposed to see it flashing red?

My issue with them putting that LED on the back of the controller is the reflection in my TV, bit of a design annoyance.
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Probably not planned like that but...whaddya know.
 
Untalkative_Bunny said:
god you sound like an aggressive marketer.
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I'm sure thats how it sounds to somebody very narrow-minded.

I dont even plan on buying an Xbox One. But I cant say I'm not interested in new tech and innovation and certainly am not going to write it off before I've seen what its capable of in actual practice.

If it proves really great, it'll definitely be something I'm jealous of as a PS4 owner.
 
qa_engineer said:
The APU and the modifications made to it. Nothing of its kind exists on the market. There is no such thing as an 8 core jaguar with a gcn 1.1 (2.0) GPU + access to 8 gbs gddr5 shared memory on the market today.
Click to expand...

Ay, 'tis custom hardware. That is what I buy consoles for.
 
DBT85 said:
I think it's possibly something to do with how they price the systems in different regions.

The EU typically pays more for the console than the US does once it's all converted back. So for example, selling the PS4 in the US might net them a $50 loss, but selling in the EU might work out to only making a $20 loss. So they can afford to bundle more crap in in the EU for the same loss if they wanted to.

I mean, right now 39,999 Yen converts to $399/€306/£262, all tax free prices. But we know with almost certainty that in the EU it will be the same € price as $ price, so if $399 then it would be €399.

If the € tax rate is 20% as it is in a few places then it only takes the price from €306 to €367, the £ price at our 20% VAT rate would take it from £262 to £314. If Sony do as most assume and put a price of $399/€399/£330 or $499/€499/£399 (as would fit previous prices) then they just made a larger profit per item in the EU and the UK than in the US. They can afford to pack a bit more crap in.
#


The combination is new, but the technology itself isn't exotic like past hardware has been. That's what he means.

The PS3 used Cell and BluRay, both really cutting edge brand new expensive stuff. The PS4 isn't doing anything like that.
Click to expand...

Right. I was simply responding to his question on what is the biggest cost associated with the PS4. While it isn't exotic, it truly is a representation of AMDs future APU designs.
 
famousmortimer said:
Casuals aren't buying either system... PERIOD. Casuals that want a console either have a wii u or and 360 with kinect. They aren't the people who buy new systems.


The only system which ever sold well to the casual market in its first 18 months is the Wii... and that was due to how cheap it was. Casuals aren't buying the X1 or PS4 no matter what the camera situation is. There's not even any proof that they are interested in consoles anymore. Kinect software has gone downhill saleswise. The Wii's fall was extremely fast. And the most recent explosions in casual gaming are on tablets and Facebook.


The idea that these people are magically coming back during the launch of a new console is foolhardy. There's absolutely no precedence to the idea that these people are going to drop $400 to $500 for a system just because Kinect 2 is better at tracking than Kinect 1 was.
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I'm on my phone so this reply may be a little short. Casuals haven't left console gaming...casuals just hasn't been supported as far as motion control games go. Nintendo gave up the Wii years ago and outside of just dance, dance central and kinect sports the kinect really wasn't marketed towards them. Casuals are gamers as well just like me and you... they just don't post on message boards about games. Sony seems to be marketing the ps4 like the vita in the us a hardcore only console. I guess we will see how that goes.
 
A budget edition at $300-$350 with only a PS4 and a DS4 would be great.

Sell a complete pack for $400 (PS4, DS4, PS Eye and PS+ trial) would sell pretty well as well.
 
Barkley's Justice said:
Comes with every system.

Does not come with every Dual Shock.
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I hope this is the case.

Better to not leave MS any weakness to leverage with the uninformed. There are things to consider outside the core gamers during this launch because MS is going hard for the casuals with all the TV and other stuff.

The first Xmas is crucial and I think Sony should cover all the bases to be safe. Especially given their comparatively smaller marketing budget.

How much cheaper could a cameraless sku possibly be anyway? I doubt it can knock 50 bucks off the price.
 
DBT85 said:
I think it's possibly something to do with how they price the systems in different regions.

The EU typically pays more for the console than the US does once it's all converted back. So for example, selling the PS4 in the US might net them a $50 loss, but selling in the EU might work out to only making a $20 loss. So they can afford to bundle more crap in in the EU for the same loss if they wanted to.

I mean, right now 39,999 Yen converts to $399/€306/£262, all tax free prices. But we know with almost certainty that in the EU it will be the same € price as $ price, so if $399 then it would be €399.

If the € tax rate is 20% as it is in a few places then it only takes the price from €306 to €367, the £ price at our 20% VAT rate would take it from £262 to £314. If Sony do as most assume and put a price of $399/€399/£330 or $499/€499/£399 (as would fit previous prices) then they just made a larger profit per item in the EU and the UK than in the US. They can afford to pack a bit more crap in.
#
Click to expand...
That does make sense.
 
Ohhhh shit, please be true. Hopefully that drops the price by $30 or $50.
 
140.85 said:
I hope this is the case.

Better to not leave MS any weakness to leverage with the uninformed. There are things to consider outside the core gamers during this launch because MS is going hard for the casuals with all the TV and other stuff.

The first Xmas is crucial and I think Sony should cover all the bases to be safe. Especially given their comparatively smaller marketing budget.

How much cheaper could a cameraless sku possibly be anyway? I doubt it can knock 50 bucks off the price.
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Exactly. I totally agree with this and this was the point I was trying to make. Additionally I think making the camera standard will improve people's experience.
 
Giant Panda said:
Exactly. I totally agree with this and this was the point I was trying to make. Additionally I think making the camera standard will improve people's experience.
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It will. If they can make it useful without forcing it on users then the consumer will see it as a selling point
 
Seanspeed said:
Just calling it a 'mandatory camera' is grossly devaluing what it is. I sense you're doing that on purpose. Like I said, Microsoft dont see it as an accessory anymore, but an integral part of the console, like a controller is. Whether somebody finds that appealing or not does not change the conversation. Its part of the system and their vision. If its that big of a turn-off, people wont buy it. But to say that its 'not considerate to the consumer' treats it as an accessory, not a part of the system itself. Its like saying that having to use a controller 'isn't considerate to the consumer'. It doesn't work in this instance anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm simply calling it mandatory because at first it wasn't, but now it is. The many who do not like Kinect also view it in this way, and to us, we would prefer having the option of not using it. In this sense, it is indeed inconsiderate of the people who do not want anything to do with Kinect. How is it not? They don't have that choice anymore, if they want the new Xbox. It's either 'deal with it' or don't buy it.
 
Tom Penny said:
Not smart. Now MS has more to offer in their ad campaign.
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I don't think a lot of people (especially hardcore gamers) will care. What they care about the most is the price tag of the system, & if the camera is the cause of the high price tag & Sony takes it out to lower the price, so be it. Some sacrifices have to be made sometime.
 
qa_engineer said:
The APU and the modifications made to it. Nothing of its kind exists on the market. There is no such thing as an 8 core jaguar with a gcn 1.1 (2.0) GPU + access to 8 gbs gddr5 shared memory on the market today.
Click to expand...

The modifications are not that big of a deal and the 8 core jaguar is nothing special and very small compared to past top consoles. The APU will actually save money because the motherboard will be a lot simpler and cooling will be much simpler also. The reason they can do APU is because how modest the CPU and GPU are. This is not like the Cell or Xenos which were both huge,expensive and cutting edge.
 
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