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[Stripper13]

Holy shit. It's hard to believe this is serious. I can't remember the last time I saw anything so pedantic and petty. It's a strong bet the DRM was even more all-encompassing to start with, only for these abysmal, meaningless 'concessions' to sneak in to try and contain the blacklash (not that it'll matter once Halo comes out). The most tragic part is all those idiots saying 'hey, that's not so bad, at least I can do [so and so]', as though all those things weren't already possible on current gen and without restrictions. I don't normally like passing judgment on people who make different choices to me, but if you buy this, you are a cretin. There is no other way of looking at it. You are endorsing the worst kind of anti-consumer, anti-privacy measures and I hope the damn thing blows up in your face for making gaming that much less friendly.

Sony will probably have some form of DRM in place, but it's hard to believe it will be anywhere near this pathetic. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as, of the three console manufacturers, they've tended to show their customers the most respect, even when occasionally getting things wrong.

Whoa!

Videogames guys, let's keep it in perspective.

I think it's clear at this point that no amount of backlash is going to change Microsoft's play at this. Personally, I'm just going to make sure I inform my gamer family and friends of these restrictions. I told them when it was first confirmed during the console reveal - most didn't care, a few did. I think I did a good service by telling them that they can't buy used, have to be connected etc.

Now I have a bit more information to work with - it might not change minds, but it'll at least try to counter the mainstream media 'positive' spin that will inevitably come after E3.

 

[Bunta]

Still can't stop laughing at "Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."

Seriously. Who ever thought we'd hear those words leading up to a console's launch?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Same here. People need to chill out.

If it isn't an issue to you then you don't get to say "chill out"

 

[ironcreed]

Guys, you can still watch TV!

LOL, that is actually pretty apt, considering the gaming side of things.

 

[mrklaw]

The 'friends and family can play anywhere' sounds confusing. Surely they wont actually be playing directly from the cloud, so will it have to install each game?

assuming you have to register friends but this would be good if it was like PS3 game sharing. I could split the cost of new games between friends depending how good the experience is for everyone

it does seem very generous considering the other restrictions in place though

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Just hope you don't get a ban for a BS reason like playing a game before street date you legally purchased from a store. Since a ban = you lose your entire game library. I think that is very serious you can lose 100's or 1000's of dollars of games at any time.

I'd think they'd have some work around for that. Maybe there's one account you use for buying and registering games that never gets banned, and separate gamertag accounts for playing online etc. that get banned for conduct violations etc.

They aren't going to lock people out of their game libraries or from buying more games etc. as they aren't going to want to lose that customer--I wouldn't think anyway, but who knows with all they're trying to pull.

But it seems more reasonable to just have a store account that's separate from your gamertag. Then they can still ban troublemakers without blocking them from their games etc. Should still be a deterrent as people don't want to lose their ID, achievements/gamerscore etc.

 

[skarabrae]

I'm betting right now.

On the Silver level membership:
You will not be able to "trade (lol)" in your games.
You will not be able to "gift (lol)" games to friends.
You will not be able to access the TV functionality with the Kinect.
You will not get access to demos until a later timeframe.


However, for only $50 a year, you can take advantage of all those exciting features!

Xbox Live Gold is $60 right now. Wouldn't be surprised if they raised it, what with all the new TV functionality...

 

[RedRedSuit]

MS seriously needs some PR coaches stat.

Why in the world would he reply to that?

 

[JABEE]

This is why the fucking canceled those 1 on 1 interviews isn't it?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=578534

Probably

 

[SlowRevolution]

Same here. People need to chill out.

Yeah. Personally I think Microsoft is a great company with forward-thinking, consumer-friendly policies. I can't wait to purchase an Xbox One console and maybe a copy of Kinectimals 2.

 

[stktt]

Still can't stop laughing at "Loaning or renting games won’t be available at launch, but we are exploring the possibilities with our partners."

It's such a convoluted solution. Every negative aspect of this device comes from attempting to offer a digital model while still offering physical media, but the resulting tradeoffs aren't appealing to anyone.

 

[shinra-bansho]

So passive aggressive, lol.

In fairness though, he didn't decide these idiotic policies.

 

[RawNuts]

Microsoft should have just come out and said "hey fuckers, we're going all digital distribution now, suck it!"; it would have a horrible stigma attached to it, but at least would have been clear and easy for consumers to understand.

Instead they're in this confusing limbo transition area between physical retail and digital distribution while none of their customers will be reaping the benefits that either provide.


This is GAF and we're all not even totally sure how to decipher this bullshit here; your average consumer is going to have no idea how any of this works and what their limitations are before they invest in this console, is that some kind of business strategy I don't know about?

 

[vatstep]

Been away from GAF, news, everything for most of the afternoon, so I'm just seeing this now.

WOW.

 

[Takuhi]

None of that is even an issue for me.

Console still looks good and I am really looking forward to it as long as the games come along. Titan could be cool, Forza looks great, and Halo is always going to be there. Sony just doesn't have the exclusives IMO.

I guess I can see the outrage from y'all if you are really into trading games and selling them, but I just don't do that. I buy them and keep them. I very rarely rent games and even more rare than that is the occasion that I borrow one from a buddy or give them one of my own. I think this entire generation I traded in 4-5 games and loaned one to a friend once.

The stuff a lot of gaf is mad about is simply a non-issue for me.

So you collect games, but don't care that MS can turn off your entire game collection at any time when they're ready for you to buy the Xbox Two and build up a new library?

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Serious question: Will really good games (especially exclusives) change your mind about buying the Xbone with these facts in mind?

I can't speak for everybody, but I can quite blissfully ignore and be ignorant of any game out there. I've gone this entire generation (well, didn't "jump in" until the end of 2008) with just a 360. I'm vaguely aware of PS3 games, but not enough to tell you anything about them one way or the other. I'm most familiar with the launch window games, if that's any indication on just how tuned out I am.

tl;dr: It doesn't matter what exclusives Microsoft tosses out there. I won't care.

 

[Woorloog]

Serious question: Will really good games (especially exclusives) change your mind about buying the Xbone with these facts in mind?

I think they've gone too far this time. Hope Sony stays strong and doesn't do this as well, it's getting a little scary.

No, nothing but full removal of these features will make me consider getting Xbone.
But we know they won't remove everything.

I really hope Sony will confirm their earlier comments about PS4 not requiring internet connection, etc. If they do, or at most dump these to publishers (ie they're clean themselves, publishers who're anti-consumer are easy to avoid), they'll have me.
If Sony goes the route MS goes... well, i'll stick to PC from then on.

 

[eznark]

privacy paranoia concerns?

Stop being so PRISM...I mean paranoid.

 

[UNSCleric]

I feel bad for Major Nelson. How is he supposed to do PR for this nightmare? This is insanity.

 

[BruiserBear]

24 hour online check is the biggest bummer to me. Everything else I could live with, I hate the idea of no used games but I'd combat that by waiting for a sale or the bargain bin for every single game I bought. But I can't justify the 24 hour check, there'd be no way around it. You're being treated like a criminal, only allowed permission to play the games you've bought if MS decides it's OK. For all the comparisons to Steam I've been seeing for weeks, this is a thousand times worse than Steam which at least has the common decency of an offline mode.

You summed up the key problem perfectly IMO.

 

[UrbanRats]

Oh and you're all cray if you don't think Sony will have similar trade/rental policies in place.

This is the future of gaming. Adapt or move on to another hobby.

Right.
But at least for what the 24 checks is concerned, they confirmed you can keep the PS4 offline.

I'm sure they will fuck us up the ass when it comes to used games, somehow, i'm waiting for details on that.

If push comes to shove, i'll stick to PC and get a WiiU, i'll get around buying these DRM consoles if and when they can prove significant advantages for all this crap, which is unlikely given the fact that they're closed platforms.

 

[dmr87]

I nap for three hours and 80 pages?

Damn GAF.

When it rains, it pours.

 

[FINALBOSS]

Jaffe is posting like mad to me on Twitter. Going too fast.

 

[jay]

Did they mention if the system will launch with water cooler functionality or if they're patching it in later?

 

[jjasper]

So why did that Adam Orth get fired again? All he did was buy into his company's bullshit and defend it online.

 

[Warablo]

If you buy the Xbox One you are bad and you should feel bad.

Spoiler

assuming Sony doesn't do this.

This is pretty much how I feel right now. I hope Sony can still have offline gaming while keeping third party titles..

 

[Heretic]

If it isn't an issue to you then you don't get to say "chill out"

chill out.

 

[BigWeather]

About the share with 10 people thing...

Ignoring that there will probably be some strict limitations on it, and ignoring that it'll probably cost more, it isn't 10 people sharing their games at the same time.

It is 1 + 1 at any one time. The primary owner of the "family" account and only one of the other nine can access your shared library at any one time. So unless you want to coordinate with the other 8 (if you are one of the 9) about which time you want to play...

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Can this shitty straw man argument die already?

Seriously!

I swear these sheep must be either paid M$ PR trolls stalking the internet under the guise of regular forum posters or otherwise M$ must be physically creating them in a factory.

I cannot believe these people are so fervent and recalcitrant in their staunch support of M$ they are all physically willing to take it right up the keester and endure this anti-consumer BS!

 

[Shinta]

Nice job Stephen Totilo, for sharing the PRISM article on Kotaku's page right after the Microsoft articles.

I hope there's a more explicit follow up article in the coming days that links Kinect and PRISM. Microsoft is a part of PRISM, and has been since 2007. Now they want to put infra-red cameras with full voice recording that never turn off and are always connected to the internet into millions of living rooms.

 

[eznark]

Then hide it if cosmetics are that important too you?

Know what's even easier? Not buying it in the first place.

 

[SeanR1221]

"eat shit" or go to another hobby, no thanks. PC/Nintendo is what I'm doing right now. Not buying a Xbone and spreading the word is what you must do if you love your hobby.

My point is, I can probably pull over 1000 things in my life right now that would worry me more than a consoles DRM rules.

I use my xbox to play games and to relax. I can play games on the new consoles.

I guess if you're ultra passionate about game politics this would interest you.

It's not even something like my phone which I use throughout the day for work. Gaming is just a small side hobby that brings me enjoyment.

 

[Kusagari]

I feel bad for Major Nelson. How is he supposed to do PR for this nightmare? This is insanity.

I'll tell you how not to do PR.

By making passive aggressive comments on Twitter.

 

[Klocker]

Wait 'till this info hits the mass market.

mass market won't care probably like some think (ie a lot of people who may have never bought a game machine before). or they would not be doing this... either that or we find out later that they are both Sony/MS doing it and there is no choice if you wan the games and services

 

[UberTag]

in one M$ ear and right out the other it seems.

WE are no longer their customers.
Microsoft no longer has a use for us or our opinions.
We have no value to them.
They no longer want our money.

They only want people they can swindle. That is all. The rest of us they resent for daring to have any objection to what they're peddling.

mass market won't care probably like some think (ie a lot of people who may have never bought a game machine before). or they would not be doing this... either that or we find out later that they are both Sony/MS doing it and there is no choice if you wan the games and services

PC is a choice, Klocker.
Current gen platforms are a choice, Klocker.
Portable systems are a choice, Klocker.
Smartphones and tablets are a choice, Klocker.

NONE OF THESE MUST REMAIN ONLINE TO BE ENJOYED, KLOCKER.
WE HAVE A CHOICE! WE CHOOSE TO NOT OPEN OUR WALLETS!

And that goes for the PS4 as well if Sony chooses to follow Microsoft down this path to oblivion.

 

[harSon]

Would have been a pretty dickish comment, but then I realized it was from May 30th

 

[webkatt]

Okay, here is why the Steam, iTunes, Kindle analogy is bull crap.

None of these services, sell a phyisical product, not one. They sell files, files that could VERY easily be copied and re-distributed endlessly with practically no effort, if it weren't for the copy restrictions placed on them. If it weren't for these restrictions, they simply wouldn't be viable products, thus why most countries specifically exampt digitally distributed content from many of their fair use laws.

Console games are sold on physical discs, each of which has sufficient anti-piracy measures to keep them from being easily copied. A physical disc, simply put, cannot possibly be copied and distributed in the same way a file can. They do not need additional restrictions placed on them, because they have inherent limitations of their own.

So its an apples and oranges comparison, these are simply inherently different kinds of products.

A more apt comparison, would be DVD's and Blu-Ray movies, but Microsoft couldn't make that comparison, since nobody has ever blocked the sale of used Blu-Rays! Heck, if some company ever tried it, I think you'd see an even bigger uproar than what we're seeing in the gamer community.

So, long story short, Microsoft is making an insincere and dishonest comparison. Furthermore, they're essentially taking the concerns of the community and dismissing them outright, in a rather flippant fashion I might add.

Frankly, I's ticked, I's ticked ROYAL!! Grrrr!!!

I posted something very similar in the Avalanche thread earlier today...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=61698122&highlight=#post61698122

 

[SlowRevolution]

I feel bad for Major Nelson. How is he supposed to do PR for this nightmare? This is insanity.

After how he handled the FAQ and now with responses like that, I'm having a lot of trouble feeling bad for him at all.

 

[Impeccable]

tl;dr: It doesn't matter what exclusives Microsoft tosses out there. I won't care.

No game will make me buy a XbOne.
No backtracking will make me buy a XbOne.
No fucking brilliant marketing terms will make me buy a XbOne.
And no future Microsoft console will be purchased by me.

All from today's official statement. Deal with it, MS.

 

[jay]

I'll tell you how not to do PR.

By making passive aggressive comments on Twitter.

Sure. Great advise.

 

[legacyzero]

Yes avatar quote a picture from the silly xbox live announcement video. Can you make an actual point?

Just sayin. And no. It's not the future. Get that stuff out of here. It's terrible

 

[jschreier]

Craziest thing about the 24-hour checkin is the thought that in 20 years, or whenever Microsoft's servers go down, the console will just straight-up no longer play video games.

 

[JABEE]

Stop being so Prism...I mean paranoid.

It was also openly stated when the original Kinect came out that the Kinect would be a valuable tool for mining Marketing data.

 

[AlanzTalon]

none of this bothers me. my internet works, i never plan to buy a disc again so long a digital downloads are available, and my friends can buy their own shit.

and Kinect can listen all it wants. I aint ashamed or paranoid.

 

[Bodom78]

I guess MS done the math and concluded money from sales outweighs losing those who trade and buy used or do not connect to the internet.

 

[mattchuuu]

I never wanted to deal with keeping a PC "up to date" to play my video games, but both this news and the attractive PC games prices have almost pushed me over the edge.

I'm certainly not getting Xbone. Fucking ridiculous. If sony does the same, then the only future console purchase I'll make is a Wii U.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Tbh, this doesn't scare me at all. Guess it affects some more than others, because I'm not quite outraged.

 

[iNvid02]

guys I found another shill

http://m.neogaf.com/member.php?u=60243

 

[SRTtoZ]

So you collect games, but don't care that MS can turn off your entire game collection at any time when they're ready for you to buy the Xbox Two and build up a new library?

Or when you type something in your profile that gets you banned or snap at some 12 year old on XBL. Bye bye gameys.

 

[Delusibeta]

I'm a little late here- but this completely eliminates X1 games being on a service like Redbox or Gamefly, right?

Only read the first page, but if I missed something please help me out.

More or less, yes. Although I'll be surprised if they don't eventually knock a deal together, as of right now: no rentals.