Indie Games [June] Now Voting - Post 666

Why? What would gameplay and challenge add to it?

This is how I feel as well - adding anything further game-y to it would only serve to get in the way of the real reason its there. This is a game about subtlety, delivery and personality. It doesn't need anything other than what's already there (in terms of established mechanics) in order to make it successful. Unfortunately, the NonGames argument is a fairly circular one so I've come to accept that some people just really want things in their pieces of interactive software.

EDIT:

ixSsTxh03iIXc.jpg

Been enjoying The Swapper quite a bit. Much more of a puzzler than Gunpoint is but I get the feeling that replayability will be ziltch once it's over, except for finding the mystery rooms. Atmosphere is very impressive, i'm still going back and forth between having DoF turned on for the added effects it gives or turning it off so I can soak in all of the impressively detailed Clay work.
 
Why? What would gameplay and challenge add to it? And who cares if it's terrible at being a game?

This is how I feel as well - adding anything further game-y to it would only serve to get in the way of the real reason its there. This is a game about subtlety, delivery and personality. It doesn't need anything other than what's already there (in terms of established mechanics) in order to make it successful. Unfortunately, the NonGames argument is a fairly circular one so I've come to accept that some people just really want things in their pieces of interactive software.

My comment was mostly in response to this quote:
I played a lot of videogames, from big budget productions to alternative independent titles, but I've never experienced anything so remarkable, haunting and multilayered, so conscious of the possibilities that this medium - still in most cases rooted in the past - has to offer.
It's something that I take issue with, as I feel that KRZ isn't doing anything in the way of utilizing the possibilities of the medium. It's not using gameplay to tell a story. I love KRZ, but I can't with a straight face call it a good game.

Doesn't mean it cannot or should not exist. I'm glad it's here for us to enjoy and experience. But I personally would be even happier if it managed to do everything it does, while at the same time still being an actual game and, really, pushing the medium forward.
 
Perhaps it is pushing the medium forward by doing exactly that - not having those things.

It seems to me like saying you would wish Blue by Derek Jarman to have something happening on-screen or Butterfly by Haus Arafna to contain clear melodies and rhythms.
 
Perhaps it is pushing the medium forward by doing exactly that - not having those things.

It seems to me like saying you would wish Blue by Derek Jarman to have something happening on-screen or Butterfly by Haus Arafna to contain clear melodies and rhythms.

Frankly I don't think those are good comparisons. They are still pieces within the medium and utilize visuals and sounds in an abstract way.

I just don't feel that KRZ even has gameplay in the first place. There is no challenge, there are no game rules. It's about as interactive as a screensaver.

Take Blue, which you mentioned. I must admit I had not heard of it before. So my knowledge on it relies on Wikipedia. But as I see it, Blue still has the main component of film: a picture. It is accompanied by sound and music.

Now to me, you can call KRZ a game as much as you can call a CD a film. The main constitutional characteristic of games is missing in KRZ. It's not a game anymore.

---

See, something like Papers, Please is a much more admirable and respectable game.
 
I think it's a terrible game, in the sense that the interactivity barely matters, there's no win/lose structure, the basic foundation of gameplay and challenge is missing. So I would never even consider putting it up as one of the best games of the year or demonstrating what gaming has to offer.

Buuuut, it is absolutely brilliant on all the other fronts. I wish they had managed to actually make a game out of it and not just a 3D visual novel.

That's why I'm intentionally trying to use the term videogame in a broader sense and not just game. Don't see why challenge is so important, they're not doing Pong or Tetris with billions of polygons and the same story on top of it to create the illusion of meaningfulness.

And I don't understand why do you think that the game is lacking in interactive elements - actually the mechanics are based on interactions, unlike most of games that are divided between shooting, jumping or puzzle solving and narrative. What's so great about it is that the game is not forcing the player to believe he's become a character, it's giving the ability to co-create the experience as it goes, like in an interactive play. The living musem, where your actions are told through the eyes of people you encounter with is just one of the examples this game provides of what this medium is capable of.
 
Why? What would gameplay and challenge add to it? And who cares if it's terrible at being a game?
Although I liked KRZ very much, I find myself somewhat agreeing with him. The game clearly plays out its adventure game roots, yet it never seemed to deliver on the promise of these roots. Don't get me wrong though, I really liked it and puzzles don't need to be strictly by the numbers either, but KRZ episode one HAD puzzles, just not very good ones. I really felt they could have pushed up that aspect of the game up to the same level as the presentation. I guess I somewhat agree that KRZ as a piece media is pretty fantastic, art even, but it definitely seems to be lacking on the game mechanics.
 
They don't. But when your interactions are meaningless then it's no longer a game.

Meaningless is when I have to shoot tons of enemies, then the the story branches or not and I have to kill some more - really interesting. In this case they may be indifferent to the system, but not to me on a personal level.
 
Meaningless is when I have to shoot tons of enemies, then the the story branches or not and I have to kill some more - really interesting. In this case they may be indifferent to the system, but not to me on a personal level.

If you can't lose, you can't win, you can't change the outcome and your decisions barely affect the narrative or gameplay then I would question if it's a videogame or not.

Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's probably more akin to a book than to a game to me.
 
So, maybe you guys can help me.

This past month I played through both Knytt Underground and Aquaria, and I'm dying to have more of the same sort of thing. Primarily I'm interested in 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy, preferably with a female main character. (The female characters and puzzles are negotiable as long as it's a 2D exploration game that is combat light.)

Any suggestions at all? I've already decided on Lunnye Devitzy since it's very cheap on Steam at the moment, but I want something else as well.
 
Although I liked KRZ very much, I find myself somewhat agreeing with him. The game clearly plays out its adventure game roots, yet it never seemed to deliver on the promise of these roots. Don't get me wrong though, I really liked it and puzzles don't need to be strictly by the numbers either, but KRZ episode one HAD puzzles, just not very good ones. I really felt they could have pushed up that aspect of the game up to the same level as the presentation. I guess I somewhat agree that KRZ as a piece media is pretty fantastic, art even, but it definitely seems to be lacking on the game mechanics.

I agree with Chainsawkitten - those elements would not add anything to the experience the authors intended. Even more, they would actually hurt it.
 
So, maybe you guys can help me.

This past month I played through both Knytt Underground and Aquaria, and I'm dying to have more of the same sort of thing. Primarily I'm interested in 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy, preferably with a female main character. (The female characters and puzzles are negotiable as long as it's a 2D exploration game that is combat light.)

Any suggestions at all? I've already decided on Lunnye Devitzy since it's very cheap on Steam at the moment, but I want something else as well.

I'm drawing a blank here.
Maybe eternal daughter? Although I think it's combat heavy. The other Knytt games also feature a female protagonist.
 
Meaningless is when I have to shoot tons of enemies, then the the story branches or not and I have to kill some more - really interesting. In this case they may be indifferent to the system, but not to me on a personal level.

KRZ's interaction is about as meaningful as being presented with a few different .txt documents on your desktop, and picking which one to click first. Maybe the text and content itself is interesting or funny or emotional, but the interaction itself doesn't do anything. And it ultimately barely matters whether you click this or that .txt document first, or if they are selected randomly.


For what it's worth, I also don't consider games art. And consequently I do consider KRZ art.
 
I'm drawing a blank here.
Maybe eternal daughter? Although I think it's combat heavy. The other Knytt games also feature a female protagonist.

I've already played all of Nifflas' games or else I'd go play those. Might try Eternal Daughter though, even if it is combat heavy.
 
KRZ's interaction is about as meaningful as being presented with a few different .txt documents on your desktop, and picking which one to click first. Maybe the text and content itself is interesting or funny or emotional, but the interaction itself doesn't do anything. And it ultimately barely matters whether you click this or that .txt document first, or if they are selected randomly.

When you look at it like that, it's no different than any other game. Every piece of software is pre-programed and the player has no choice at all.

For what it's worth, I also don't consider games art. And consequently I do consider KRZ art.

And here we can agree - football or tic-tac-toe could never be an art form. It can contain some artistic values, if for example players run after the ball wearing beautifully created historical costumes, but that's not the reason it was created for.
 
That goes for every game ever made. The interaction by itself is pointless. It is only within it's context that it gains meaning.

That's not true. I don't have a damn clue what the story of Bangai-O Spirits is about, but I enjoy playing it. I don't consider the interaction pointless. If I don't interact properly, I lose the game. And I want to keep playing because the constant challenge is fun (/releases some kind of happy happy hormones in my brain).
 
Can you (and other people who like the game) maybe elaborate on this?

Oh, sorry, I missed your post. At this point you probably know what to expect from it from the discussion here. As for professional critique - I don't know. I've never read any for this game. You have to remember that it's not finished yet. I only read this article: http://superlevel.de/spiele/indie-spiele/kentucky-fried-zero-english-edition/ I link to in every KRZ thread. It's a bit spoilerific, but in my opinion it only helps appreciate the game more - check it out on your own risk.
 
That's not true. I don't have a damn clue what the story of Bangai-O Spirits is about, but I enjoy playing it. I don't consider the interaction pointless. If I don't interact properly, I lose the game. And I want to keep playing because the constant challenge is fun (/releases some kind of happy happy hormones in my brain).

I think that's exactly what he meant. Those elements are kinda pointless, except for the sense of excitement you get from overcoming the challenge.
 
One more thing. Don't get me wrong - I don't hate the gamey games, I like them like everyone else from time to time. I just think those competitive skill based mechanics are detrimental to the experience, when you're trying to express something more complex than basic emotions of joy or fear.
 
One more thing. Don't get me wrong - I don't hate the gamey games, I like them like everyone else from time to time. I just think those competitive skill based mechanics are detrimental to the experience, when you're trying to express something more complex than basic emotions of joy or fear.

Fine. I personally just really dislike it when "game" creators treat the gameplay as an afterthought, or a necessary evil, as if they're embarrassed to be making a game in the first place.

This is why I like Jonathan Blow a lot. For all the pretentiousness he gets accused for, time and time again, he still stresses how important it is to have a solid gameplay first, and THEN you add the layers and "meaning", and try to tie it together.
 
Worth noting June 11-13, IndieCade will be at E3.

http://www.indiecade.com/2013/E3_Games_2013/

The IndieCade Showcase @ E3 is now in its 7th year. In its first year, IndieCade showcased Braid a full year before its publication. That same year, IndieCade featured Cloud, the premiere game by thatgamecompany—who went on to create the award-winning Journey.

Since 2007, IndieCade’e Showcase @ E3 has featured close to 30 certified indie hits, not counting those undiscovered gems and games that have attracted devoted cult followings. 25+ games are carefully selected each year to highlight the talent and creativity of the independent game movement. Other notable past IndieCade picks include Antichamber (2010); Cards Against Humanity (2011); Binding of Isaac by the creator of Super Meat Boy (2012); as well as Skulls of the Shogun (2011) and Scale (2012), both recipients of numerous Best In Show awards at previous E3 Expos.

Join us at the 2013 IndieCade Showcase @E3 to see the year's cutting edge independent games and industry trends, and the special opportunity to meet the creators. There is an explosion of creativity and innovation in the indie sector—and IndieCade is here to show you the game-changers that go on to transform the industry landscape.
Check out the more than 35 games at the IndieCade Showcase @ E3 in the South Hall #3035, Lost Angeles Convention Center, June 11-13.

Nice list of games so far and they are adding more each day.
Had never noticed Pinstripe before, looks pretty cool and is latest game to join the booth.
 
One more thing. Don't get me wrong - I don't hate the gamey games, I like them like everyone else from time to time. I just think those competitive skill based mechanics are detrimental to the experience, when you're trying to express something more complex than basic emotions of joy or fear.

Sorry fo quoting myself, but I found this article that may help in understanding how the process goes: http://beta.in-mind.org/node/379. Basically it comes to this that you can't feel much, while performing complicated actions. So if you're not creating skill/rules based game in a first place (puzzle, action, etc.), stay away of those elements as far as you can.
 
I'm just throwing this out there, mostly because I'm playing it at lunch but, if you haven't played SpaceChem yet, you are not complete.

SpaceChem is the reason Toma is getting into heaven. Probably one of the best recommendations I've ever gotten about a game.

You play a budding Chemist working for one of the biggest chemical manufacturers in the world. Your job is to take raw elements and set up a production line that is capable of producing certain molecules. To be honest, you don't need to know anything about Chemistry - the game is easy to learn. Beating it on the other hand...oh boy.

SpaceChem%202011-01-10%2014-58-23-84.png


You'll eventually move past creating simple molecules, relying on multiple reactors / production lines to produce more complicated molecules.

spacechem.jpg


If you like puzzle games - get this. Just do it.

You can get it from the dev's website here.
Steam - here
Gamer's Gate - here
Here's a Wot I Think about the game.

RPS Wot I Think said:
When I posted about indie puzzler SpaceChem last week, I wondered if we already had one of the year’s best indie games on out hands. Since then I’ve lost many hours to its incredible chemical conundrums, and I’m very excited to tell you Wot I Think.

If you like video games - get this.

If you think you're smart - get this.

If you like anything at all - you may want to get this.

Just do it. You can thank me (and Toma) later.

* I wish I could have put more time into this post. It started out as a sentence or two, but then I saw we needed links / screen shots. I'm at work so this is the best I could BUT THIS GAME DESERVES SO MUCH MORE.
 
So, maybe you guys can help me.

This past month I played through both Knytt Underground and Aquaria, and I'm dying to have more of the same sort of thing. Primarily I'm interested in 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy, preferably with a female main character. (The female characters and puzzles are negotiable as long as it's a 2D exploration game that is combat light.)

Any suggestions at all? I've already decided on Lunnye Devitzy since it's very cheap on Steam at the moment, but I want something else as well.

I'm drawing a blank here.
Maybe eternal daughter? Although I think it's combat heavy. The other Knytt games also feature a female protagonist.

I've already played all of Nifflas' games or else I'd go play those. Might try Eternal Daughter though, even if it is combat heavy.

Hmmm... 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy...

What about the following games?
  • VVVVVV
  • Braid
  • Vessel
  • The Swapper
  • Small Worlds
  • 1000 Amps
  • FEZ
  • Starseed Pilgrim

and maybe:
  • Osmos
  • Once Upon A Spacetime

They don't perfectly fit your requirements (exploration is debatable, I take it as a game in which you can decide which direction to explore), but I have tried.
 
This past month I played through both Knytt Underground and Aquaria, and I'm dying to have more of the same sort of thing. Primarily I'm interested in 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy, preferably with a female main character. (The female characters and puzzles are negotiable as long as it's a 2D exploration game that is combat light.)

I feel that, I also finished Knytt Underground with a craving for more. Wok has a great number of suggestions, but I would also throw in 'Gateways' by the Smudged Cat. That has some similar themes in it.
 
For all the pretentiousness he gets accused for, time and time again, he still stresses how important it is to have a solid gameplay first, and THEN you add the layers and "meaning", and try to tie it together.

I think that's incredibly backwards and a recipe for ludonarrative dissonance. That implies gameplay is somehow more important than artistry. If you want to make a mechanically challenging game, then go with gameplay. If you want to make a meaningful game, then make it in the way that best expresses that meaning. Don't make your gameplay and then try to hopelessly patch it together. I think this approach is why I never cared a second for any of the story in Braid and I think it would be better without any attempts at storytelling.
 
Fine. I personally just really dislike it when "game" creators treat the gameplay as an afterthought, or a necessary evil, as if they're embarrassed to be making a game in the first place.

This is why I like Jonathan Blow a lot. For all the pretentiousness he gets accused for, time and time again, he still stresses how important it is to have a solid gameplay first, and THEN you add the layers and "meaning", and try to tie it together.

I think that's incredibly backwards and a recipe for ludonarrative dissonance. That implies gameplay is somehow more important than artistry. If you want to make a mechanically challenging game, then go with gameplay. If you want to make a meaningful game, then make it in the way that best expresses that meaning. Don't make your gameplay and then try to hopelessly patch it together. I think this approach is why I never cared a second for any of the story in Braid and I think it would be better without any attempts at storytelling.

Both gameplay and story / setting / aesthetics are but facets of the same gem. I think you can have a great game with just the former (chess), but you'll never have resonance or get an emotional connection (Journey) if you completely ignore the latter.

In the end, I think what a game designer decides to focus on is ultimately up to them. As is the choice to create something for himself or for his audience. When making a game, you can even start from pretty much any aspect of game design and work up from there. That's one of the great things about our medium.

Personally, I don't think Braid was a particularly potent game in terms of artistry and emotional resonance. It came off as pretty pretentious, almost like a "hey, check this out I made a game with this deep, meaningful subplot if you're intelligent enough to get it!" That may not be fair, but I feel, as a game designer myself, that his games are more reflections of what he wants to make rather than the experience he wants to provide.
 
I agree with Chainsawkitten - those elements would not add anything to the experience the authors intended. Even more, they would actually hurt it.

I wouldnt be so sure about that. That we arent able to think of a solution to that issue doesnt mean that it doesnt exist.

Both gameplay and story / setting / aesthetics are but facets of the same gem. I think you can have a great game with just the former (chess), but you'll never have resonance or get an emotional connection (Journey) if you completely ignore the latter.

In the end, I think what a game designer decides to focus on is ultimately up to them. As is the choice to create something for himself or for his audience. When making a game, you can even start from pretty much any aspect of game design and work up from there. That's one of the great things about our medium.

Personally, I don't think Braid was a particularly potent game in terms of artistry and emotional resonance. It came off as pretty pretentious, almost like a "hey, check this out I made a game with this deep, meaningful subplot if you're intelligent enough to get it!" That may not be fair, but I feel, as a game designer myself, that his games are more reflections of what he wants to make rather than the experience he wants to provide.

Thats what I am getting at too, I think. Braid was a puzzle game first and foremost for me. The rest on top definitely seemed a bit pretentious and redundant. The problem I have with KRZ (even though, as I said earlier, I actually really like it for what it is and tries to be) is that it took the roots of the adventure game genre and then just used very bland "puzzles". I am not saying that I would have expected or wanted Monkey Island puzzles in the game, but something... that we probably cant think of yet. It just seems like a waste to have this marvellously well thought out game concept and using sub-standard puzzles as gameplay mechanics to push the game forward.

I mean KRZ is a good game, and I am totally fine with not changing the game, but it feels like a wasted opportunity to me to think about gameplay that enhances the gameplay experience instead of just pushing it forward. I am not a very good game designer, so I cant offer a solution to this problem, but Journey did this very well and actually fits to the importance of the major parts of the game. They could have easily just made an art game to push you forward without any sort of gameplay mechanics, in which you still would be able to experience the Heroes journey etc. But the exploration and interaction with someone else gave the game another 2 layers that all blend together into a marvellous experience. I sort of got the impression that someone could have figured out some gameplay mechanics to actually make the gameplay in KRZ rewarding, and not only the meaning and visuals. I mean they used puzzle game aspects in the game, but very very simple ones that strike me as very uninspired and out of place. I feel like the game would have deserved more on that regard.

Edit: Just to make myself clear again, I am not saying the game should have shoehorned puzzle elements, but I just feel that it would have deserved more thought on those parts as well.
 
I'm just throwing this out there, mostly because I'm playing it at lunch but, if you haven't played SpaceChem yet, you are not complete.

Yeah, I know that I got MANY people on GAF to check this out personally, and I am really glad I did. Such a perfect concept that really deserves the attention it got.
 
One more thing. Don't get me wrong - I don't hate the gamey games, I like them like everyone else from time to time. I just think those competitive skill based mechanics are detrimental to the experience, when you're trying to express something more complex than basic emotions of joy or fear.

There is a lot of design space between Super Meat Boy and a visual novel. You don't need a competitive skill based mechanic to have a game, but you need something. I'm firmly in the camp that game mechanic can convey concepts and emotions, both on their own and in concert with presentational elements. It is certainly an underexplored area, which is why it needs to be explored more. That's what I dislike about "non-games", I don't think they're breaking new ground by eschewing anything that would make them a game, they're actually missing that opportunity. They're shunning the real challenge.

The two most recent games I played were Hotline Miami and Dear Esther. I'm conflicted about the latter, but what I am certain about is that it's not better for not having any gameplay, or nuance to its interactivity. Even though its sound and environment design stands above that in almost all games it still didn't convey as strong a sense of mood as other games I've played. The interaction is so pointlessly trivial and monotonous that you become detached from it. It's kind of another topic altogether but I strongly believe that interactivity is a much more powerful tool for creating immersion than any presentational elements can ever be. Anyway, the other game, Hotline Miami. It's of course very different, but it is similar in how much it wants to convey a mood and I would say that they're on par presentationally. In Hotline Miami however, the mechanics match the presentation perfectly. Playing it feels like a struggle for life and death, it feels like being held down and reaching for the nearest object to beat someone with.
 
Recently I've been trying to cover as many small indies as possible on my YT channel. I've got a series where I do first impressions of games and I want to do these kind as much as possible next to big titles.

For example: Potato Dungeon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-reuis-fk3w


And I also look at Steam Greenlight games, like Bloodlust: Shadowhunter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeFjLJkAFBU

Will be doing as many as my time gives me and I find something fun on these topics :)
 
I wouldnt be so sure about that. That we arent able to think of a solution to that issue doesnt mean that it doesnt exist.

Thats what I am getting at too, I think. Braid was a puzzle game first and foremost for me. The rest on top definitely seemed a bit pretentious and redundant. The problem I have with KRZ (even though, as I said earlier, I actually really like it for what it is and tries to be) is that it took the roots of the adventure game genre and then just used very bland "puzzles". I am not saying that I would have expected or wanted Monkey Island puzzles in the game, but something... that we probably cant think of yet. It just seems like a waste to have this marvellously well thought out game concept and using sub-standard puzzles as gameplay mechanics to push the game forward.

I mean KRZ is a good game, and I am totally fine with not changing the game, but it feels like a wasted opportunity to me to think about gameplay that enhances the gameplay experience instead of just pushing it forward. I am not a very good game designer, so I cant offer a solution to this problem, but Journey did this very well and actually fits to the importance of the major parts of the game. They could have easily just made an art game to push you forward without any sort of gameplay mechanics, in which you still would be able to experience the Heroes journey etc. But the exploration and interaction with someone else gave the game another 2 layers that all blend together into a marvellous experience. I sort of got the impression that someone could have figured out some gameplay mechanics to actually make the gameplay in KRZ rewarding, and not only the meaning and visuals. I mean they used puzzle game aspects in the game, but very very simple ones that strike me as very uninspired and out of place. I feel like the game would have deserved more on that regard.

Edit: Just to make myself clear again, I am not saying the game should have shoehorned puzzle elements, but I just feel that it would have deserved more thought on those parts as well.

Let me get this straight. When I use the term game - it's just easier to use it in discussion - I'm thinking of videogames which in my understanding are synonymous to interactive media as a whole, with conventional games only as a part of it. So when you look at this that way the KRZ has as much as common with classic Point & Clicks or puzzle games as Tarkovsky's works with Michael Bay's.

I don't see any issue with KRZ execution, the game was absolutely rewarding for me in terms of its content, mechanics and presentation. The single scene taken out of the Act II, like the living exhibition, which could be read as a metaphor to the global world we're living in now, or profaned cathedral, was more intellectually stimulating than the whole game of Journey - and that's just a small fraction what this game has to offer. Every element works perfectly in a context of another, so I don't know how adding puzzles could help in any way, and the article I provided earlier proves that those cognitive heavy tasks could be destructive to the experience which KRZ is trying to convey. And I'm trying hard, but I can't remember any puzzles in Act I and II - what part are you thinking of?
 
...the NonGames argument is a fairly circular one so I've come to accept that some people just really want things in their pieces of interactive software.

Hey, don't forget to post a screenshot of a game you played recently you think deserves a place here.

New tradition, top of the page screenshot of a game I am currently playing. Whoever grabs the first post will post a new screenshot of a game he liked, so that people entering the thread see something nice. That tradition worked nice in the Vita thread :p
 
should have copped KR0 when it was cheaper... love me some adventure gaming

I'm just throwing this out there, mostly because I'm playing it at lunch but, if you haven't played SpaceChem yet, you are not complete.

SpaceChem is the reason Toma is getting into heaven. Probably one of the best recommendations I've ever gotten about a game.

You play a budding Chemist working for one of the biggest chemical manufacturers in the world. Your job is to take raw elements and set up a production line that is capable of producing certain molecules. To be honest, you don't need to know anything about Chemistry - the game is easy to learn. Beating it on the other hand...oh boy.

SpaceChem%202011-01-10%2014-58-23-84.png


You'll eventually move past creating simple molecules, relying on multiple reactors / production lines to produce more complicated molecules.

spacechem.jpg


If you like puzzle games - get this. Just do it.

You can get it from the dev's website here.
Steam - here
Gamer's Gate - here
Here's a Wot I Think about the game.



If you like video games - get this.

If you think you're smart - get this.

If you like anything at all - you may want to get this.

Just do it. You can thank me (and Toma) later.

* I wish I could have put more time into this post. It started out as a sentence or two, but then I saw we needed links / screen shots. I'm at work so this is the best I could BUT THIS GAME DESERVES SO MUCH MORE.

SpaceChem is god-tier puzzle gaming.
 
I really enjoyed FEZ and it gave me a reason to get my controller out of the dust.

Edit just to help don't take it personal: your summary says post 1: 4. Voting Results "Best of March" shouldn't that be May?
 
How legal is it to use public domain texts in a (commercial) video game? Like if I grab a text from a hundred years ago off Project Gutenberg?

And what about classical music? I think the music itself might be fine, but the performance rights are owned by an orchestra/conductor, no?
 
How legal is it to use public domain texts in a (commercial) video game? Like if I grab a text from a hundred years ago off Project Gutenberg?

And what about classical music? I think the music itself might be fine, but the performance rights are owned by an orchestra/conductor, no?

For programming questions, I suggest asking over in the Indie Programming thread.
 
I've already played all of Nifflas' games or else I'd go play those. Might try Eternal Daughter though, even if it is combat heavy.

Hmmm... 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy...

What about the following games?
  • VVVVVV
  • Braid
  • Vessel
  • The Swapper
  • Small Worlds
  • 1000 Amps
  • FEZ
  • Starseed Pilgrim

and maybe:
  • Osmos
  • Once Upon A Spacetime

They don't perfectly fit your requirements (exploration is debatable, I take it as a game in which you can decide which direction to explore), but I have tried.

Lots of good recommendations here. Try Waking Mars and Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP too.
 
Hmmm... 2D exploration games, preferably combat light and puzzle heavy...

What about the following games?
  • VVVVVV
  • Braid
  • Vessel
  • The Swapper
  • Small Worlds
  • 1000 Amps
  • FEZ
  • Starseed Pilgrim

and maybe:
  • Osmos
  • Once Upon A Spacetime

They don't perfectly fit your requirements (exploration is debatable, I take it as a game in which you can decide which direction to explore), but I have tried.

I've played most of these! Tried out Small Worlds and Once Upon a Spacetime. I liked Small Worlds, too bad it was very short. Once Upon a Spacetime was... interesting.

I bought Starseed Pilgrim yesterday, but have yet to play much of it.

Lots of good recommendations here. Try Waking Mars and Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP too.

I've played these too! Actually Sword & Sworcery was on my GOTY list last year.
 
Been enjoying The Swapper quite a bit. Much more of a puzzler than Gunpoint is but I get the feeling that replayability will be ziltch once it's over, except for finding the mystery rooms.

It looks like puzzles in this game have got different solutions to them, so it might be advisable to play it at least two times.
 
How legal is it to use public domain texts in a (commercial) video game? Like if I grab a text from a hundred years ago off Project Gutenberg?

And what about classical music? I think the music itself might be fine, but the performance rights are owned by an orchestra/conductor, no?

If it's public domain it's public domain. The Darkness had a full length movie (The Man With The Golden Arm) and rocket is putting War of the Worlds (and presumably other books) into DayZ.
 
If you don't care if it's on Steam or not, you may try looking into Luminesca: http://www.desura.com/games/luminesca. It's not finished yet, but for now you can get access to a part of the game for $5 - it will be $10 when released. Rating on Desura is amazing, but I haven't tried it myself.

I thought about this one, but the game is more like a draft right now. The first act lasts 15 minutes and is average, I have not played the second act.

I've played most of these! Tried out Small Worlds and Once Upon a Spacetime. I liked Small Worlds, too bad it was very short. Once Upon a Spacetime was... interesting.

I bought Starseed Pilgrim yesterday, but have yet to play much of it.



I've played these too! Actually Sword & Sworcery was on my GOTY list last year.

Then, you could try Gateways.

I feel that, I also finished Knytt Underground with a craving for more. Wok has a great number of suggestions, but I would also throw in 'Gateways' by the Smudged Cat. That has some similar themes in it.
 
That goes for every game ever made. The interaction by itself is pointless. It is only within it's context that it gains meaning.

By that logic, then, Chess and Go are meaningless? Pacman and Tetris are meaningless? Clairvoyance is meaningless?

When you look at it like that, it's no different than any other game. Every piece of software is pre-programed and the player has no choice at all.

Well, that doesn't seem to be true, does it? You might as well say that Chess has no choices because all piece movements are determined by the rules.

I think that's incredibly backwards and a recipe for ludonarrative dissonance. That implies gameplay is somehow more important than artistry.

But, for a game, it's not only more important, it's THE most important element, period. I REALLY think we should stop using "game" for things that clearly aren't, like Kentucky Route Zero and Dear Esther; this misuse is the one thing that is making us disagree. No definition of game you'll find anywhere on any dictionary or encyclopaedia (including wikipedia) can be applied to those two. A more appropriate term would be interactive fiction.

Again, this distinction is important because many gamers aren't particularly interested in interactive, or viceversa, much like, say, many of us might not be interested in radio serials. It's perfectly OK to love interactive fiction, and indeed it's easier to consider them traditional pieces of art, but I feel the divide in intention is so great that it doesn't make sense to judge them using the same set of metrics.

Which, by the way, is another, perhaps the biggest, reason why we disagree. Failure to make this distinction is making us advocate for games to put more emphasis on story or art, or for interactive fiction to have more gameplay elements. See how mentally separating both categories immediately renders that notion absurd?

For the record and so we know where I stand, I loved 999 and I'm loving The Walking Dead, but Dear Esther did little for me, so I'm avoiding interactive fiction like it. I do not subscribe to the notion that a piece of interactive fiction HAS to have definite gameplay elements to be worthwhile, but I do think that careful application of them can enrich the experience immensely.

If you want to make a mechanically challenging game, then go with gameplay. If you want to make a meaningful game, then make it in the way that best expresses that meaning.

Again, this is falling into the trap of thinking that "storyless", or even abstract games, are meaningless.

Don't make your gameplay and then try to hopelessly patch it together. I think this approach is why I never cared a second for any of the story in Braid and I think it would be better without any attempts at storytelling.

I for one loved Braid's storytelling, because it was quite open to interpretation (and I liked the writing), but a case can be made for it being quite divorced from gameplay. I however don't consider that a bad thing or like it less for it, and indeed, I believe that separation is entirely intentional.

Lots of good recommendations here. Try Waking Mars and Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP too.

Actually, Waking Mars could be exactly what he's looking for. Really great and original game, lots of exploration, fair amount of thinking, zero combat. and thinking. I second this recommendation.

Re: SpaceChem, it's easily one of my favorite indie games of all time, and it's particularly appealing to me as software engineer. There's only one other game I've found that's even remotely similar, which is Factorio. In fact, I'd say as a genre it remains an untapped gold mine.
 
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