Digital-Hero
Member
Please give me a Metal Gear Solid (1998) simple-easily digestible storyline. I do not want another MGS2.
Metal Gear Solid V (PS3/360/PS4/XBO/Maybe PC) - Extended 9 minute E3 trailer
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
CoffeeExpress
Member
What are we supposed to believe then? Grey Fox is another Big Boss clone ? or is it some sort of face mask or something ?
Not sure.
I'm guessing total reconstructive surgery on his face. I don't think that's too farfetched in a universe of clones and mechs with nuclear weapons.
Rogue Agent
Banned
As an interesting counter-argument to that, here's another video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW4VE9PXlo0
I've got a feeling that we'll get that! After MGS4, I was burnt out story-wise, despite it being a good game. After playing PW, I liked the story and characters and I think that this will focus on that but on a larger scale - with hopefully less silly twists and stuff.
I've got a feeling that we'll get that! After MGS4, I was burnt out story-wise, despite it being a good game. After playing PW, I liked the story and characters and I think that this will focus on that but on a larger scale - with hopefully less silly twists and stuff.
Thank you! Will watch after I finish and summarize the first video.
unknownhero
Member
If that is gray fox then where is big boss?
Rogue Agent
Banned
Yeah, well, I hope it's interesting for you
I liked it but that's because I like the guy behind the video. Probably the arguments are just as speculative and not really that deep.Big Boss is likely either still in a coma, or isn't fit to fight. Maybe he's just doing some other wet-work somewhere else? Could really be anything.
Yeah, well, I hope it's interesting for you
Alright, I'll be right back after I go get a quick bite to eat and watch this!
CoffeeExpress
Member
I know it's early.. but watching the trailer again I hope the OT is named like this..
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain |OT| Words That Kill
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain |OT| Words That Kill
Metal Gear Solid 2 is the greatest game that's ever been made, so yeah, I'd like more of that.
Also, did anyone think of the funny idea that "V" can be split up into "II". Probably not related at all, but would be funny if this crazier stuff turned out to be true. Would likely be more related to the whole "Gray Fox/Big Boss" thing instead of being a comparison to MGS 2 though.
Okay, watching that rebuttal video now.
Also, did anyone think of the funny idea that "V" can be split up into "II". Probably not related at all, but would be funny if this crazier stuff turned out to be true. Would likely be more related to the whole "Gray Fox/Big Boss" thing instead of being a comparison to MGS 2 though.
Okay, watching that rebuttal video now.
GillianSeed79
Member
The Grey Fox theory is interesting. Wasn't Ishmael in the Phantom Pain original trailer voiced by Keifer? Maybe they did a face transplant like that movie Face Off and that was the reason for all the bandages? Lol. It's also weird that they call Snake Punished Snake in the trailer, considering that he asked to be called Big Boss at the end of Peace Walker, although didn't they call Big Boss something like Vic Boss in Peace Walker?
The timeline is so screwy in my head with all the retcons over the years, but when did Big Boss actually meet Grey Fox? Did they retcon that in Portable Ops? I thought he was a child soldier or something originally. They are going to have a hard job explaining how Grey Fox and Big Boss become members of Foxhound in Metal Gear 1 (MSX and NES).
The timeline is so screwy in my head with all the retcons over the years, but when did Big Boss actually meet Grey Fox? Did they retcon that in Portable Ops? I thought he was a child soldier or something originally. They are going to have a hard job explaining how Grey Fox and Big Boss become members of Foxhound in Metal Gear 1 (MSX and NES).
Sephiroth_VII
Member
I find it very unlikely that the Big Boss we see in the PP trailer would be ready for a sneaking mission in Afghanistan without at least a year of rehab. He probably didn't want to leave Kaz there when he had the ability to send someone to save him.
Spazznid
Member
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain |OT| Snakes That Kill
Rebuttal Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW4VE9PXlo0
Here are my rebuttals to the rebuttal.
-Gray Fox's eyes
This is a tricky one. I think the rebuttal video has a good point about GF's eyes being well....gray. The only real explanation I could have here is that the rebuttal is indeed correct in that it was some sort of strange result of the Fox Engine, or perhaps it was a subtler way for Ocelot and company to tell the two apart. I'm leaning towards the former.
-The "third party" in the Operating Room
This is something I really can't wrap my head around. I know Kojima said it was him as a game designer, but I really think there's more to it than that. It would seem like a really strange thing to include in a trailer that's debuting the game. I will agree though that he said that and you can't dispute that.
-Snake's ponytail
Yeah, that's why I didn't include it in the summary post. It just seems like hogwash to think Snake would never have a ponytail hairstyle at any point. I agree on this.
-The Binocular
This is where I highly disagree. There's still no animation for the equip of a binocular. Even in the MGS3 example he gives, you can see a very-quick (but noticeable) animation on Naked Snake equipping those binoculars. I still see the blue light and I hear the clicking noise that was mentioned, both of which he doesn't address. I also don't think that Snake moving his hand towards his eye in both of those scenes is just a new, fancy animation (like what we've seen in The Division). So I disagree on all that is said here.
-2 Characters, one Voice
Nothing to argue here. He says there's no real way to know anything, and that it's super-weird that Kiefer is voicing both Ishmael and the Snake-like character in the scene. Could be a figment of Snake's imagination to help him escape the hospital, or it could be something else.
-No Big Boss, just Snake
I really didn't like his explanations here. This seemed to be just as much conjecture as some other points in the other video (for example, the ponytail). He kind of goes out on a limb to say that Snake wants to distance himself from the country that betrayed him, and doesn't want to tarnish the name of Big Boss. It still completely contradicts with that Peace Walker ending, where he clearly states that he shall be now known as Big Boss instead of Snake.
-Snake killing civilians
Nothing really of note here. He says he thinks it could just be Snake falling into the role of a villain, and doing heinous stuff like we see in the trailer. He does say that the Gray Fox/Rodesian stuff does seem to make some sense though, in that he may be in the story of MGSV.
-Win32.Deepthroat
Basically the same as before; means that it could be a hint towards Gray Fox being in the game, but not necessarily as Snake.
-Rebuttal video's reason as to why it's not Gray Fox
So he says in the original trailer, you can see Snake with an arm missing and a piece of debris in his head, but not Ishmael. This is a really bad argument to me. The dude becomes a cyborg Ninja by MGS1. Is it really that hard to believe that Ocelot/Kaz went to extreme lengths to make him look exactly like Snake? Like even cutting off his arm and placing a chunk of shrapnel in his head? It sounds far-fetched, but it's not like that's something Ocelot/Kaz wouldn't do.
Very good video though. I share a few complaints that the creator of it did as well. Not sure how I stand on the whole Gray Fox issue, but I'm still definitely leaning towards something here not being quite right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW4VE9PXlo0
Here are my rebuttals to the rebuttal.
-Gray Fox's eyes
This is a tricky one. I think the rebuttal video has a good point about GF's eyes being well....gray. The only real explanation I could have here is that the rebuttal is indeed correct in that it was some sort of strange result of the Fox Engine, or perhaps it was a subtler way for Ocelot and company to tell the two apart. I'm leaning towards the former.
-The "third party" in the Operating Room
This is something I really can't wrap my head around. I know Kojima said it was him as a game designer, but I really think there's more to it than that. It would seem like a really strange thing to include in a trailer that's debuting the game. I will agree though that he said that and you can't dispute that.
-Snake's ponytail
Yeah, that's why I didn't include it in the summary post. It just seems like hogwash to think Snake would never have a ponytail hairstyle at any point. I agree on this.
-The Binocular
This is where I highly disagree. There's still no animation for the equip of a binocular. Even in the MGS3 example he gives, you can see a very-quick (but noticeable) animation on Naked Snake equipping those binoculars. I still see the blue light and I hear the clicking noise that was mentioned, both of which he doesn't address. I also don't think that Snake moving his hand towards his eye in both of those scenes is just a new, fancy animation (like what we've seen in The Division). So I disagree on all that is said here.
-2 Characters, one Voice
Nothing to argue here. He says there's no real way to know anything, and that it's super-weird that Kiefer is voicing both Ishmael and the Snake-like character in the scene. Could be a figment of Snake's imagination to help him escape the hospital, or it could be something else.
-No Big Boss, just Snake
I really didn't like his explanations here. This seemed to be just as much conjecture as some other points in the other video (for example, the ponytail). He kind of goes out on a limb to say that Snake wants to distance himself from the country that betrayed him, and doesn't want to tarnish the name of Big Boss. It still completely contradicts with that Peace Walker ending, where he clearly states that he shall be now known as Big Boss instead of Snake.
-Snake killing civilians
Nothing really of note here. He says he thinks it could just be Snake falling into the role of a villain, and doing heinous stuff like we see in the trailer. He does say that the Gray Fox/Rodesian stuff does seem to make some sense though, in that he may be in the story of MGSV.
-Win32.Deepthroat
Basically the same as before; means that it could be a hint towards Gray Fox being in the game, but not necessarily as Snake.
-Rebuttal video's reason as to why it's not Gray Fox
So he says in the original trailer, you can see Snake with an arm missing and a piece of debris in his head, but not Ishmael. This is a really bad argument to me. The dude becomes a cyborg Ninja by MGS1. Is it really that hard to believe that Ocelot/Kaz went to extreme lengths to make him look exactly like Snake? Like even cutting off his arm and placing a chunk of shrapnel in his head? It sounds far-fetched, but it's not like that's something Ocelot/Kaz wouldn't do.
Very good video though. I share a few complaints that the creator of it did as well. Not sure how I stand on the whole Gray Fox issue, but I'm still definitely leaning towards something here not being quite right.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Interesting rebuttals 
I think the binoculars thing is weird because it feels that Kojima fast-forwarded stuff in the trailer - at least that's what it looked like.
To be really honest with you, and this isn't a rebuttal, but I think the main intention behind this theory is just to have the 'real' Big Boss be voiced by Hayter and the fake one voiced by Kiefer Sutherland - it kinda feels like denial that Hayter isn't voicing Big Boss, despite the interesting analysis made in the original theory video.
I think the binoculars thing is weird because it feels that Kojima fast-forwarded stuff in the trailer - at least that's what it looked like.To be really honest with you, and this isn't a rebuttal, but I think the main intention behind this theory is just to have the 'real' Big Boss be voiced by Hayter and the fake one voiced by Kiefer Sutherland - it kinda feels like denial that Hayter isn't voicing Big Boss, despite the interesting analysis made in the original theory video.
Interesting rebuttals
To be really honest with you, and this isn't a rebuttal, but I think the main intention behind this theory is just to have the 'real' Big Boss be voiced by Hayter and the fake one voiced by Kiefer Sutherland - it kinda feels like denial that Hayter isn't voicing Big Boss, despite the interesting analysis made in the original theory video.
Could very well be, which is understandable.
I think there's always been kind of a suspicion around every single Metal Gear game since MGS2 though, which I understand. Everyone has been trying to get a leg-up on Kojima since he pulled one of the biggest fast-ones on players in all of gaming history.
Holy cow. Have you all seen this? (I'm guessing yes.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1WhDdto08
The footwork and research these two is incredible, so I highly, highly reccomend checking these videos out to all MGS fans out there. It's very interesting!
Not even halfway through yet. I was pretty sure the whole "Gray Fox is Big Boss" theory was crazy until I started seeing this. This paired with the strange camera and dialogue stuff in the Ground Zeroes trailer, plus Ishmael in the Phantom Pain trailer is starting to come together.
EDIT: Will update with more interesting info.
-Snake's eyepatch isn't as it seems - in the trailer you can see Snake making some sort of gesture towards the eyepatch, and a clicking sound can be heard right after; this goes along with Ocelot's line about getting familiar with binoculars; there is also a small blue light on Snake's hand when he does this gesture at his eyepatch; he also never equips binoculars to zoom in on enemies in the trailer
-Gray Fox murdered innocent civilians in the Rhodesian Civil War of 1979[/B (for example, Naomi Hunter's parents)], just as Punished Snake seems to murder innocents held in a prison in the trailer
-Gray Fox's alias in MGS1, "Deepthroat" was used for the anonymous source in the Watergate scandal, and
-"In Africa...They're building a weapon to surpass Metal Gear. Big Boss meets Gray Fox's sister, Naomi, in Africa during the 1980's, and returns them both to the States. Gray Fox returns to fight the war in Africa after.
SIDE NOT ABOUT ELI/LIQUID:
Interesting points about how the word "cursed" is used to describe Eli, while Liquid uses that exact word to describe his fate in MGS (Twin Snakes; not sure if it's the same phrase in MGS1 ((PS1)) )
"In the Middle East, we don't hunt Foxes, we hunt Jackals."
Seems legit.
Also, I'm so, so, so happy that this is coming to PS360.
I was kind of confused and disappointed at first, because I thought it would hold the game back, but now I can avoid the next-gen consoles until the next MGS game or killer-app; so I don't have to buy one until 2014 at the earliest.
(I will probably cave and buy one at launch though, sadly.)
Seems to be quite similar, but I see an animation of Snake putting them away in the Ground Zeroes demo.
I was kind of confused and disappointed at first, because I thought it would hold the game back, but now I can avoid the next-gen consoles until the next MGS game or killer-app; so I don't have to buy one until 2014 at the earliest.
(I will probably cave and buy one at launch though, sadly.)
Seems to be quite similar, but I see an animation of Snake putting them away in the Ground Zeroes demo.
Meccanical
Member
So elsewhere there are discussions that Paz might be Raiden's mother.
Someone said this: "So was Raiden in the package?"
Holy shit I am dying.
Someone said this: "So was Raiden in the package?"
Holy shit I am dying.
The binoculars are exactly the same. There is an animation in GZ, but you can also see Snake putting his arm down in the Red Band trailer as well at 4:52.
Rogue Agent
Banned
That's fair enough. As for me, I think that Kojima would do something like that for the benefit of the story from his point of view. This isn't a counter-argument, but the new Snake being Gray Fox with that facial surgery just kinda kills it for me. So, I'm playing as this fake Big Boss, why should I care about his descent into hell? I love Gray Fox, but I feel that this would make me care less about undertaking a such a potentially-dark journey with the real Big Boss.
Ah, interesting. I think with this, I definitely don't think it's some mechanical eye.
Holy cow. Have you all seen this? (I'm guessing yes.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb1WhDdto08
The footwork and research these two is incredible, so I highly, highly reccomend checking these videos out to all MGS fans out there. It's very interesting!
Not even halfway through yet. I was pretty sure the whole "Gray Fox is Big Boss" theory was crazy until I started seeing this. This paired with the strange camera and dialogue stuff in the Ground Zeroes trailer, plus Ishmael in the Phantom Pain trailer is starting to come together.
EDIT: Will update with more interesting info.
-Snake's eyepatch isn't as it seems - in the trailer you can see Snake making some sort of gesture towards the eyepatch, and a clicking sound can be heard right after; this goes along with Ocelot's line about getting familiar with binoculars; there is also a small blue light on Snake's hand when he does this gesture at his eyepatch; he also never equips binoculars to zoom in on enemies in the trailer
-Gray Fox murdered innocent civilians in the Rhodesian Civil War of 1979[/B (for example, Naomi Hunter's parents)], just as Punished Snake seems to murder innocents held in a prison in the trailer
-Gray Fox's alias in MGS1, "Deepthroat" was used for the anonymous source in the Watergate scandal, and
-"In Africa...They're building a weapon to surpass Metal Gear. Big Boss meets Gray Fox's sister, Naomi, in Africa during the 1980's, and returns them both to the States. Gray Fox returns to fight the war in Africa after.
SIDE NOT ABOUT ELI/LIQUID:
Interesting points about how the word "cursed" is used to describe Eli, while Liquid uses that exact word to describe his fate in MGS (Twin Snakes; not sure if it's the same phrase in MGS1 ((PS1)) )
"In the Middle East, we don't hunt Foxes, we hunt Jackals."
Wow, this raises some pretty good points. Punished Snake being Gray Fox would also explain why Kojima has been shunning Portable Ops (that line by Kaz in Peace Walker is very telling) where the first canonical appearance of Frank Yaeger occurs.
Dick Justice
Banned
It wouldn't be the first time they've messed up the eye colour of a character.
The only thing I can clearly see is Snake lowering his hand. Maybe it's him putting away binoculars, but it looks more to me like he's putting his hand down.
They do seem to be pretty similar though:
It wouldn't be the first time they've messed up the eye colour of a character.
Well they fixed that in the game:
This is something I can agree with 100%.
Dick Justice
Banned
Well they fixed that in the game:
Yeah, but beforehand, there was a lot of speculation that the character wasn't really Raiden. Eventually, they released a version with the correct eye colour.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
It wouldn't be the first time they've messed up the eye colour of a character.
Didn't they say that this image was Grey Fox because he was supposed to be the star of Rising, but that changed last minute when they couldn't figure out the story to go with the gameplay mechanic?
snake had blond hair in the bfriefing files and then it turned brown. maybe he is the dominant one afterall?
Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain |OT| Who the fuck are we again?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I didn't even have to watch the whole thing. I was sold by the 12 minute mark. The "on your feet soldier" thing was stretching it as that's a common phrase, but the Rhodesia thing pretty much sealed the deal.
An MGS game where you play as Grey Fox...all I can say is that it's about time. I think it's pretty cool that he would be a Big Boss "copy", since the other ninja of the series not to include Olga was also a "copy".
My biggest fear is that Kojima will release too much information in future trailers since Phantom Pain is probably not coming out until Spring next year at it's ABSOLUTE earliest time possible. But I don't know if I can go on blackout for MGS...damn.
Gouda Jouji
Member
Nope, it was always Raiden.
That was just a weird mistake. It's never mentioned in the games that he dyes his hair, and in Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 it's brown.
Dick Justice
Banned
No, he never had blonde hair. It looked that way because of the lighting. It's a common myth that he dyed his hair.
Also, looking at the 60FPS trailer that I downloaded, I'd lean towards Fake Snake's eyes not being blue. The part where it zooms in as he fires at the kids gives a good view of his face. But it could just be the lighting, or an error on the part of the texture artist. Who knows.
Oh, and regarding that render of Raiden possibly being Gray Fox, it's unlikely. The game was originally meant to be set between MGS2 and 4, so it still would've starred Raiden.
No, that was always meant to be Raiden.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I didn't even have to watch the whole thing. I was sold by the 12 minute mark. The "on your feet soldier" thing was stretching it as that's a common phrase, but the Rhodesia thing pretty much sealed the deal.
An MGS game where you play as Grey Fox...all I can say is that it's about time. I think it's pretty cool that he would be a Big Boss "copy", since the other ninja of the series not to include Olga was also a "copy".
My biggest fear is that Kojima will release too much information in future trailers since Phantom Pain is probably not coming out until Spring next year at it's ABSOLUTE earliest time possible. But I don't know if I can go on blackout for MGS...damn.
I feel if Eli is Liquid its already too much and too easy.
muzzymate
Member
Same here. MGS1 & MGS3 are my favorites because they are somewhat grounded. 2 & 4 are just bat shit crazy.
Can Crusher
Banned
I'm sold on the theory. Goddamn now I'm freaking hyped to bits just because we might get to play as Gray Fox.
I want it.
I want it.
Dick Justice
Banned
What a thought-provoking post. How dare we analyse the trailers, who do we think we are? Oh dear.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
How is 3 less bat shit crazy than 2? There's a scene where Eva backflips off of Ocelot's face on a motorcycle. There's a scene where Ocelot spins his revolver really really fast so that the bees sent by the guy who grows bees in his stomach don't sting him. There's a scene where an astronaut attacks you with a flamethrower and then becomes two ghostly flaming faces that try to attack Snake. There's a scene e.t.c.....
Rickenslacker
Banned
As fun as it is to read the speculations about these things prerelease I just tend to assume nothing that will be garnered from trailers will amount to much. I remember the thoughts of MGS3 being VR, what the young Snake could mean in MGS4, the screw up with Raiden's eye colour in Rising's render meaning it's Sunny. The trailer speculations tend to be a complete different kind of crazy than the kind the games dive into.
