Wired: Final Fantasy Isn’t Dying. It’s Already Dead

This guy lost me as soon as he said FF lost its way after X-2. XII was one of my favorite entries out of the entire series and still had that trademark FF spirit of not simply rehashing what made the last entry successful while still retaining what made the series special and unique. I even enjoyed XIII for what it was, and it could have been so much more if they had not been so determined to streamline the experience for the western gears/mass effect/calladoody demographic. Hopefully XV is a somewhat return to form.

Still, something doesn't sit right with me knowing that the concept that will eventually become the 15th mainline installment in the franchise wasn't built from the ground up knowing it would take that coveted spot. It makes me wonder what the idea for XV was originally before they made the switch, and will it get pushed back to XVI?
 
It's a series that's lost it's way, sure, and I doubt it will ever be as important a series as it once was, but dead? No.

It's a series that has fallen. And why do we fall Bruce?

Yes.

I can't wait for XV. And XII HD, hopefully. Damn, FFIV might even be good. Too far?
 
The FFXV trailer basically disproved this article long before it was written.

I'm tempted to agree. At this point I think it's foolish to declare FF dead, because they just loaded a bullet in the chamber which the wider world took notice of, and we really have to see where it lands before we claim something like "already dead".
 
Source on the 1 million lower in sales?
Check slide here. Probably increased between 50k and 100k since then.

Did you know shipments is money in the bank for Square? They base their calculations and projections from shipments.
Please calm down in future, thanks.
Sorry, but that's not true. Price protection means Square has the cover the cost of lowering the sticker price on the shipments they made.

I'd take accuracy and agitation over ignorance.
 
Check slide here. Probably increased between 50k and 100k since then.


Sorry, but that's not true. Price protection means Square has the cover the cost of lowering the sticker price on the shipments they made.

I'd take accuracy and agitation over ignorance.

It's not even ignorance at this point. This topic has been covered to death in nearly EVERY FF thread discussing XIII. People use the shipped numbers as their focal point of their argument when the info being used is not even correctly utilized. =/
 
The fact that a Final Fantasy XV trailer can create this much enthusiasm means it is not dead. It is, however, hurt.

What enthusiasm? :/ Everyone I know who were big FF fans during the ps1 and 2 era's could not care less. It's not dead, but it's losing its relevance and fast.
 
It seems definitely scripted in a lot of parts, but it was in engine.

In my opinion.

Probably was. But the Iron Giant's sword being countered just like that and some how getting embedded deep in the creature just feels off. The feel of impact from such a heavy weapon and having a human do so with relative ease just bothers me.

--------------

FF as a whole isn't dead. But it is stagnating. I feel bad for those that will never experience Type 0 because to most it doesn't even exist because reasons.
 
I hardly think it's dead. Though I will say the franchise has been supremely disappointing to me recently, and I can see XV going either way honestly. I hope that in this console transition Square is able to step back and reflect on what made them worth a damn in the first place. I really miss the great stories they used to tell, but now they just seem to favor style over substance.
 
I did I think he just meant the overall feel / theme of Final Fantasy and I agree it was similar to all those elements blended together. I dont see how using those elements but creating brand new worlds, stories is doing the same thing?

FF7, FF8 and FF9 are vastly different if you just look at the world and story.

I didn't say they were doing the same thing. Are you sure you read the exchange correctly?

Why would people want a series to use elements from ANOTHER series to get better? That's silly. That's like saying you do NOT want anything new, you want the same thing rehashed in a different way.
 
What enthusiasm? :/ Everyone I know who were big FF fans during the ps1 and 2 era's could not care less. It's not dead, but it's losing its relevance and fast.

Reviews for ARR will most likely be lukewarm as well so SE and the FF brand will further fall from its prestigious status.
 
Unless you know... they overshipped and had to buy back copies. Can you please know the info you're dealing out before you actually posting them?

Final Fantasy XIII still sold well. If the game is at 6.6M shipments, it must have gotten a top up at some point because the initial shipment was 5 million. Games with millions of copies sitting around on store shelves don't get future shipments of an additional 1.6M copies.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/10/final-fantasy-xiii-ships-5-million-copies/

FFXIII-2 sold pretty poorly, but that was a direct sequel that no one wanted. I'm sure Lightning Returns will meet a similar (or worse) fate. After that though, the release of a new numbered entry for the first time in 4-5 years, plus the hardware generation refresh could do the franchise a lot of good.
 
Anyone saying X-2 and XII were bad didn't play the games more than 5 hours, they were good.

The problem is the how crappy XIII was, then XIV was the biggest disappointment of all time. I hope XV is good and that they make a XII HD port like X/X-2.

Final Fantasy is in no way dead... but yeah I'm not interested in LR.
 
Final Fantasy XIII still sold well. If the game is at 6.6M shipments, it must have gotten a top up at some point because the initial shipment was 5 million. Games with millions of copies sitting around on store shelves don't get future shipments of an additional 1.6M copies.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/10/final-fantasy-xiii-ships-5-million-copies/

FFXIII-2 sold pretty poorly, but that was a direct sequel that no one wanted. I'm sure Lightning Returns will meet a similar (or worse) fate. After that though, the release of a new numbered entry for the first time in 4-5 years, plus the hardware generation refresh could do the franchise a lot of good.

Oh, I'm not saying that XIII was bought back. No way. XIII-2 on the other hand definitely did though.

However, even if they shipped a second batch, they could've overshipped that batch leading to a price cut.
 
All of this talk about it being dead is extremely silly, too. It's been said for TWENTY YEARS.


*****

FrostyDoom Feb 12 1998, 1:00 am

Yeah, that's right. FFVII makes me sick. It breaks all rules of decency. The
arrogant use of FMV ruins the entire experience. Plot thickening sequences
should be done in generally the same graphical format as the game play.
Otherwise the game has no cohesion. The story is diluted by shallow characters
who don't reach the standards that good RPG characters should reach(especially
FF characters). The load time makes the transition between playing periods
less meaningful. The music doesn't bring forth the emotion that a good RPG
depends on. All of the previous FF games are better than this piece of trash.
Sony's game industry will never survive if it doesn't realize that the quality
lies in the content of the game itself, not the level of technology used.

*********

Enamel Feb 27 1997, 1:00 am

Square is by far my favorite company, but I have to say that I was worried
that the high budget and CD storage space might spoil them. It seems as
if the nightmare is coming true. I'm glad sales are going very
disappointingly in Japan because that may be enough of a knock to bring
Square back to their collective senses. Square thrived as a small company
on a budget. Now they are giant and are perhaps inevitably starting to
lose touch with what really made their games great, going for profit
instead. I just hope that these low sales can turn them around. It goes
to show that even the very best are not immune to greed. It's not that I
blame Square; I just hope for the best for them. About Enix: if Square
can't take the heat, you can bet Enix will fair even worse. Though maybe
Enix will be wise and take note of Square's failure with FF7 as they make
DQ7.

Sony, you may be able to buy off the very best companies in the business,
but you can't buy creativity, inspiration, or any of the real elements
that make Square games the best in the world. Sorry, Sony; there are just
some things even your kind of money cannot buy.

-Siegfried


******


Katsunori Y. Mar 11 1999, 1:00 am

Squaresoft is DEAD. Thats all I can say. What's up with all these
Squaresoft games coming out now a days. they are just relying on a
technology and graphic and they lost the storyline. FF7 was like a
Graphic game. Story was ok but you just play it to see more Computer
Graphic Animated movie. Bushido Blade 1n 2 was good that it give a
realisticness to a fighting. Saga Frontier was a joke. It was short and
I thought in the end everyone will come together as one big story but
didn't. Chocobo Dungeon was cute and was good for a while but had no
purpose to the game. Einhinder was one of the worst game I ever seen. It
was soo bad I didn't even bught it. Musashiden was ok but you just
basicaly buy it to see the Demo disc. Parasite Eve and Xenogear had
awsome intro but story wise wasn't that good. This new Squaresoft game
coming out... which your in a tube and you just keep shooting.. that was
a joke. I am expecting the Racing RPG game... forgot the name.. was
something like... "Lagoon" I am hoping this game is better then what I
have seen so far. Game Quality just dropped with Squaresoft. Or maybe
other company made us relaized Squaresoft wasn't good as we image them
to be.


****
 
Final Fantasy XV will rejuvenate this series

I mean just take a look at the YouTube stats. Sure, they don't really mean anything IRL but they can be a good measure to check out the buzz online.

E3 Trailer uploaded by IGN = 1.2 million views

E3 trailer uploaded by official SE channel = 500k views

Gameplay video uploaded by official SE channel = 1 million views

It is even surprising to see Lighting Returns E3 trailer stats on the official SE channel. It is currently sitting at 867k views.

So the notion that the series is dead is plain wrong. It is still alive and well, just hurt terribly due to all the bad business decisions and delays.
 
What enthusiasm? :/ Everyone I know who were big FF fans during the ps1 and 2 era's could not care less. It's not dead, but it's losing its relevance and fast.
I'm in uni and that trailer was the buzz of the school the next day. And most of the students are much younger than me... They aren't coasting off fanboyism from the PS1 or 2 era... They were too young for that.
 
Final Fantasy = dunfor

I was a massive Final Fantasy fan since FF1 on the NES and continued to be in the 16-bit and 32-bit era. Wasn't a fan of Final Fantasy 10 or X-2, and 12 was cool but not beloved like the others. When I read that boob physics interview I thought to myself, "Self, you have known this for a while now but the series is done, they've lost their god damned minds, let it go and move on". And I then realized that I had moved on, many, many years ago.
 
I don't think you can compare people complaining about FF7 to people complaining about the FF13 trilogy.

Yes, you can. The complaints about it being the WORST EVER and claims about knowing the sales and business future are exactly the same. Square has been dead for 20 years according to fans.
 
Check slide here. Probably increased between 50k and 100k since then.

Sorry, but that's not true. Price protection means Square has the cover the cost of lowering the sticker price on the shipments they made.

I'd take accuracy and agitation over ignorance.

That 5.5M number from May 2010 is shipped, not sold.

It's not even ignorance at this point. This topic has been covered to death in nearly EVERY FF thread discussing XIII. People use the shipped numbers as their focal point of their argument when the info being used is not even correctly utilized. =/

The shipped numbers are the only accurate worlwide numbers we get.
 
Oh, I'm not saying that XIII was bought back. No way. XIII-2 on the other hand definitely did though.

However, even if they shipped a second batch, they could've overshipped that batch leading to a price cut.

I imagine that most of the top ups were probably sold as greatest hits units (or the equivalent in Europe). The game has been $20 for quite some time now, and its the sort of title that people will pick out of bargain bins if they happen to be late adopters to this generation. Same case as Resident Evil 5 or Gran Turismo 5 whose shipment numbers have been slowly creeping up for years now.
 
All of this talk about it being dead is extremely silly, too. It's been said for TWENTY YEARS.
I don't know if it's 1:1.. But there are similarities.

I bet you some of the people whining about "anime" "kpop looks" got on board the series with FF7. Delicious irony for all those FF7 detractors back in the day.
 
Yes, you can. The complaints about it being the WORST EVER and claims about knowing the sales and business future are exactly the same. Square has been dead for 20 years according to fans.

Not when one grew the brand immensely and one has turned it into a decline. The people were just wrong back then, they aren't right now.
 
The FFXV trailer basically disproved this article long before it was written.

How? It seemed to suggest even more shallow gameplay and a focus on cinematics and terrible writing that's put many off of the franchise. It looks nothing like what the fans of older Final Fantasies are looking for.
 
It is even surprising to see Lighting Returns E3 trailer stats on the official SE channel. It is currently sitting at 867k views.

I imagine Toriyama hammering F5 all day and night to have influenced that view count.

Anyway, my biggest issue with FFXIII and this generation is that the stories are a convoluted mess. It is quite embarrassing. I'll happily explain to my bemused girlfriend the intricacies of what's going on in FFVII and why at the point she walked in I was actively trying to cross-dress as convincingly as possible. Possibly because it is gloriously absurd but justifiable and in a way, funny. Plus there were multiple parallels to relatable things in the real world and a sense of enjoyment about it.

In FFXIII (the sequel also) it's incredibly convoluted to talk about why anything is happening and the cutscenes are so hammily acted that Calculon is claiming royalties. I experienced better writing years ago and are not getting that level now. It breaks immersion when your only cues as to why anything is happening need to be supplemented in codec files alongside the main narrative, or explained fully in Ultimania's rather than be discovered sufficiently in a single playthrough and fully rounded out in subsequent ones. I noticed this problem did actually begin with VIII having a similar databank thing. However, at least that did have some cohesion to the narrative and characters had justifiable motives for their choices.
 
How? It seemed to suggest even more shallow gameplay and a focus on cinematics and terrible writing that's put many off of the franchise. It looks nothing like what the fans of older Final Fantasies are looking for.

The E3 stage demo shown at the Sony conference was absolutely terrible. It almost made me completely lose interest in the game.

But the gameplay demo they showed later was much better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGPSBZutxjI

There's definitely an interesting game in there that I want to play. I just hope the bullshit in the "cinematic" trailer doesn't end up being the main focus for the game.
 
I didn't say they were doing the same thing. Are you sure you read the exchange correctly?

Why would people want a series to use elements from ANOTHER series to get better? That's silly. That's like saying you do NOT want anything new, you want the same thing rehashed in a different way.

I think maybe we are just reading what he said wrong. I didn't see it as FF needs to borrow from these. He just described the feeling of FF as a mix of all these things which I agree with.

Yes, you can. The complaints about it being the WORST EVER and claims about knowing the sales and business future are exactly the same. Square has been dead for 20 years according to fans.

Those FF7 haters though were clearly a small minority. FF7 was universally loved and gave PS1 dominance in the console wars. FFXIII is hated by the majority of fans and unlike back then where Square was making money they are totally in the shitter now.
 
And by "Western RPGs" you mean shooters and 3D action games. That direction isn't very surprising.

JRPGs were never the number one genre of games. So I don't know where this comparison is going. You can't say "Well, of course people aren't drinking Diet Rite anymore, because they're too busy drinking Diet RC Cola..."

Going from an RPG perspective, it's undeniable that people are preferring WRPGs.
 
I don't know if it's 1:1.. But there are similarities.

I bet you some of the people whining about "anime" "kpop looks" got on board the series with FF7. Delicious irony for all those FF7 detractors back in the day.

Yeah, or all the people complaining about fanservice or boob jiggling.

yOFGHTe.gif



Not when one grew the brand immensely and one has turned it into a decline. The people were just wrong back then, they aren't right now.

You really think that's a good argument? They didn't know what they were talking about 15 years ago, but we're CLEARLY right this time!

Come on. They're saying the same thing: "I am an expert on Japanese sales and business and this PROVES that Square is dead!!!"
 
How? It seemed to suggest even more shallow gameplay and a focus on cinematics and terrible writing that's put many off of the franchise. It looks nothing like what the fans of older Final Fantasies are looking for.

I'm amazed at the conclusion people draw from thin air. We saw one FMV scene (with Noctis and his father), which had more nuanced interaction than anything i've seen in FF titles (seems like it's really trying to emulate that Western RPG feel), and people are already delcaring the writing is going to be terrible. Man, FF threads are ridiculous on Gaf.
 
They're trying to make a combat system that looks like a fight sequence from that shitty Final Fantasy VII CG movie. It has been their dream since they announced FFXIII. In the end they're going to serve a system where you control one character and all the "awesome" moments will be quicktime events.

The combat system was probably the one part of FFXIII I actually liked.
 
How? It seemed to suggest even more shallow gameplay and a focus on cinematics and terrible writing that's put many off of the franchise. It looks nothing like what the fans of older Final Fantasies are looking for.
Depends on what "older Final Fantasy" you are talking about. It's nothing like the style of IV and V. But I definitely think the imagery of XV takes the dramatic sci-fantasy appeal of VII and updates it to modern graphical expectations.
 

I was referring to that trailer. I want a tactical RPG not some newly envisioned kingdom hearts, I just can't stand shallow action RPG systems and action RPGs always end up being shallow. If you need to do action go all out and make it as good as Ninja Gaiden/Bayonetta or take the Monster Hunter/Dark Souls animation approach. Nothing in that demo looked fun to play to me.

I'm amazed at the conclusion people draw from thin air. We saw one FMV scene (with Noctis and his father), which had more nuanced interaction than anything i've seen in FF titles (seems like it's really trying to emulate that Western RPG feel), and people are already delcaring the writing is going to be terrible. Man, FF threads are ridiculous on Gaf.

Uh huh, basing my opinions on PS2 FF's onwards sure is drawing my conclusions from thin air. I think the only amazing thing is people thinking this will turn out well given the companies recent history. I'd be more than happy to eat crow on this but I can't see any FF being good until there's a massive company shake-up.
 
Anyone saying X-2 and XII were bad didn't play the games more than 5 hours, they were good.

The problem is the how crappy XIII was, then XIV was the biggest disappointment of all time. I hope XV is good and that they make a XII HD port like X/X-2.

Final Fantasy is in no way dead... but yeah I'm not interested in LR.

XII is kinda bad though. Only when I was able to play IZJS would I call it good, and if that's the case then fuck Square because they don't allow their worldwide fanbase to experience a lot of their good stuff. I shouldn't have to download fan translations for Final Fantasy games dammit! Not gonna complain really, PCSX2 is great and the game looks beautiful and runs @ 60 constant. I don't even wanna get into Type-0....
 
XII is my favorite FF game and even I'll admit it was very divisive among the fanbase.

In my experience a lot of the people who were put off by it just wanted more of the standard ATB system, while people who liked XII thought standard ATB felt antiquated. I think the system in XII is actually a great compromise -- if you turn on wait mode or even switch off the gambits you still have just as much control over your party as you did in X or VII, but the whole experience is much smoother without battle transitions. I find XII to be more similar to an Infinity Engine game than an MMO.

The overall issue with XII is that it was basically Final Fantasy for people who don't like Final Fantasy.
 
Come on. They're saying the same thing: "I am an expert on Japanese sales and business and this PROVES that Square is dead!!!"

What? Hindsight proves they were 100% wrong and were a tiny minority who thought that way. General consensus right now is that the brand is in severe decline (people saying it's dead are wrong, it can comeback) and that Square are in trouble. The two really aren't comparable.
 
Probably was. But the Iron Giant's sword being countered just like that and some how getting embedded deep in the creature just feels off. The feel of impact from such a heavy weapon and having a human do so with relative ease just bothers me.

It was not only this part that seems off, all the “Uncharted“ parts too :P
 
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