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[Vigilant Walrus]

smh at people defending blackface with flimsy appeals to cultural relativism

I think it's in really, really poor taste to put this sthick on everyone - I didn't know about the blackface until I read this thread.

To say it's insensitive to paint your skin black to roleplay an african is way over the line IMO. That would be like saying people who dress up like japanese characters from manga and anime where insensitive for making them look more like asians.


People have different looks. Besides the KKK dude I really doubt those guys had any harmful intentions. I feel that people sometimes use over interpretation to start some drama. I don't know, but that's just a feeling.


More than 1/5 of the worlds population has dark skin. For people all over to world, to be possible labelled as racist, due to charicature from the 18th century in America/England??? How is that even remotely fair.

I've been to themed parties before where people dressed up as gipsys, romas or mexicans with all the stereotypical clichees, that make them so recognizeable. Isn't that one of the main things of dressing up? IMO the worst thing at a dress up party is if people don't know who you are dressing up as, haha. I think that is why many people dress up very clicheed.

I'm not defending condesending racial outfits btw! I just wonder if you can mark everyone who dresses themselves black as racist. These kids looked like call of duty loving fratboys!?

 

[Enzom21]

I don't suppose you noticed the lack of exaggerated features, the lack of red lips, and the lack of missing teeth when comparing those images did you? Yes, it is stupid, but to equate what these dickheads did with American blackface and stereotypical 'Negro' imagery is pretty shit.

Leaving white around the eyes and the lips unpainted is blackface.

There are no exaggerated features here and this is from a minstrel show.

 

[Dead Man]

Leaving white around the eyes and the lips unpainted is blackface.

Leaving white around the eyes is what people do who are not very good at face painting as well. Do the pictures look like they had a professional job? And no Australian will know that leaving skin around the eyes is insulting black people. You are reaching here. It is stupid, but it is not minstrel blackface.

 

[trinest]

At first I thought this was another thing which wasn't racist and taken out of context.... then I looked at the pictures.

Who thought this would be a good idea?

 

[Hypron]

Leaving white around the eyes is what people do who are not very good at face painting as well. Do the pictures look like they had a professional job? And no Australian will know that leaving skin around the eyes is insulting black people. You are reaching here. It is stupid, but it is not minstrel blackface.

My thought as well.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

My thought as well.

And mine.

 

[fanboi]

Leaving white around the eyes is what people do who are not very good at face painting as well. Do the pictures look like they had a professional job? And no Australian will know that leaving skin around the eyes is insulting black people. You are reaching here. It is stupid, but it is not minstrel blackface.

Was just about to post this or...


GET OUT OF MY HEAD CHARLES

 

[lefantome]

What is wrong:

- KKK costume.


In addition to that is it true that westerners(and probably easterners) doesn't know so much about Africa and African countries but I see nothing offensive in dressing in a way it is supposed to be traditional (even if it isn't, in this case is just ignorance) or dressing as autoctone animals.
Painting the face black? part of the costume. It will be the same in the opposite situation.

I feel that the party was goliardic, I don't know if it was offensive, probably it was but I can't tell it from the photos, apart from the KKK guy.

What if you had to go to an australian themed party? How would you dress?
Kangaroo? aboriginal? crocodile dundee? surfer? rugby player?
Would it be racist?

Stereotypes aren't racist but they can be used by racists to confirm their prejudices.

 

[Enzom21]

Leaving white around the eyes is what people do who are not very good at face painting as well. Do the pictures look like they had a professional job? And no Australian will know that leaving skin around the eyes is insulting black people. You are reaching here. It is stupid, but it is not minstrel blackface.

No, you're giving him the benefit of the doubt whereas I am not willing to excuse such behavior.

 

[roosters93]

Are you serious?!

as serious as Toastytoast

Leaving white around the eyes and the lips unpainted is blackface.

Are you serious?!

 

[AdventureRacing]

Leaving white around the eyes is what people do who are not very good at face painting as well. Do the pictures look like they had a professional job? And no Australian will know that leaving skin around the eyes is insulting black people. You are reaching here. It is stupid, but it is not minstrel blackface.

Exactly what i was thinking.

No, you're giving him the benefit of the doubt whereas I am not willing to excuse such behavior.

No he's telling you that the vast majority of people in Australia would have no idea that leaving white around the eyes is representing 'blackface'. You only have to look around at most amateur face painting to see people avoiding the eye area so they don't stupidly get it in there.

I find it funny that people are making the assumption that these people are basically uneducated racists dressing up in blackface but then giving them enough credit to assume that they have researched the cultural history of another country enough to know that leaving white around your eyes represents blackface.

 

[Joni]

And I'm not just talking about some shitty Wayans brothers movie, I'm talking about shit like this:

Is stuff like that culturally significant in Australia? Or anywhere outside of the US and the UK?

Leaving white around the eyes and the lips unpainted is blackface.

There is a reason why people leave those areas unpainted. It is because it is difficult to paint yourself and those are the areas of your body where you don't want paint to end up: your eyes and your mouth.

 

[fanboi]

No, you're giving him the benefit of the doubt whereas I am not willing to excuse such behavior.

You are quite alone on that stance on this forum at least it seems.

But it makes for a good discussion.

EDIT: Also, innocent until proven guilty without reasonable doubt.

 

[Dead Man]

No, you're giving him the benefit of the doubt whereas I am not willing to excuse such behavior.

No, I am saying nobody in Australia will know that, and that it looks like a just a shitty paint job. You are reaching far beyond what the evidence will support.

 

[muddream]

The only thing I can see crossing the line is the KKK costume and even that is closer to insensitive than malicious.

I feel that Australia is shamefully behind the rest of the world socially.

Yeah, I wish Australia was more like Afghanistan.

It's blackface. This guys is clearly in blackface.

He puts effort into his bodypaint and costume, but the red lips were just too much work? Maybe he just doesn't want to get paint in his eyes, you're reaching in order to feel offended.

 

[Mael]

I'm all for giving benefit of the doubt and all that but when you get pictures of a guy dressed in fucking KKK costume?
I mean if you have people all dressed in nazi regalias, you'll just say he's celebrating germany's rich history or some crap like that?

 

[Deleted member 325805]

No, you're giving him the benefit of the doubt whereas I am not willing to excuse such behavior.

So you just instantly think the worst of people? Continue on your quest, I guess.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm all for giving benefit of the doubt and all that but when you get pictures of a guy dressed in fucking KKK costume?
I mean if you have people all dressed in nazi regalias, you'll just say he's celebrating germany's rich history or some crap like that?

Indeed. KKK guy is a wanker, but what about elephant guy, is he deemed not sufficiently enlightened as well? It's not like the whole party was KKK guys.

The KKK costume is clearly racist.

The black bodypaint is most likely racist too. Its hard to say though as many people remain ignorant of how racist it is considered in the US.

How, with Americans reminding everyone at every turn? We are all America!!

 

[i_am_ben]

The KKK costume is clearly racist.

The black bodypaint is most likely racist too. Its hard to say though as many people remain ignorant of how racist it is considered in the US.

 

[Joni]

Its hard to say though as many people remain ignorant of how racist it is considered in the US.

Luckily it wasn't in the US so they shouldn't think about how the US feels about it.

 

[Mael]

Indeed. KKK guy is a wanker, but what about elephant guy, is he deemed not sufficiently enlightened as well? It's not like the whole party was KKK guys.

They clearly didn't care enough about the KKK guy to thrown him out of the party because he was a racist dick.
the facepaint is really of the same ilk, I mean not even in Europe that would be ok!
If you're making excuses at every turn for clear racist behaviour might as well found one for the KKK guy too.
Heck he probably thought it was a spanish themed party and was celebrating that other event where people wear white robes.

Seriously guys, there's a place and a time for being understanding and everything but this is clearly not the time nor the place.

 

[airmangataosenai]

Whenever I think of Australia and race relations, this commercial always comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftZt-Dw_hQ

 

[fanboi]

The KKK costume is clearly racist.

The black bodypaint is most likely racist too. Its hard to say though as many people remain ignorant of how racist it is considered in the US.

Or US is ignorant to the majority of the world how a non-issue this is?

 

[Irminsul]

No, you're giving him the benefit of the doubt whereas I am not willing to excuse such behavior.

Try not to visit Germany on January 6th, then.

All those racist kids:

And yes, they're carollers.

How, with Americans reminding everyone at every turn? We are all America!!

EDIT:

the facepaint is really of the same ilk, I mean not even in Europe that would be ok!

Of course it would, see the top of my post.

 

[Hypron]

The KKK costume is clearly racist.

The black bodypaint is most likely racist too. Its hard to say though as many people remain ignorant of how racist it is considered in the US.

But these people don't live in the US.

 

[waypoetic]

Reading the title, i thought a bunch of KKK's trashed the party. That was not the case.

 

[Joni]

the facepaint is really of the same ilk, I mean not even in Europe that would be ok!.

Welcome to Europe on December 6th.

 

[Arjen]

Did we have our yearly Zwarte Piet thread already, or are we waiting for the UN results to make it more interesting this year?

Welcome to Europe on December 6th.

December 5th, you heathen

 

[Dead Man]

They clearly didn't care enough about the KKK guy to thrown him out of the party because he was a racist dick.
the facepaint is really of the same ilk, I mean not even in Europe that would be ok!
If you're making excuses at every turn for clear racist behaviour might as well found one for the KKK guy too.
Heck he probably thought it was a spanish themed party and was celebrating that other event where people wear white robes.

Seriously guys, there's a place and a time for being understanding and everything but this is clearly not the time nor the place.

If you are not the host, it is not your place to throw him out, and if the host is an ignorant fool of a child who won't do it or doesn't realise, why are you blaming all the other people at the party? It makes no sense.

And no, the facepaint is not of the same ilk as a KKK costume.

Did we have our yearly Zwarte Piet thread already, or are we waiting for the UN results to make it more interesting this year?

You're in it.

 

[?oe?oe]

How many racists show up during Halloween? Oh snap!

 

[lefantome]

Welcome to Europe on December 6th.

what's that???
I think it's specific to an european country and I have no idea of why they are dressed like this

 

[THRILLH0]

Whenever I think of Australia and race relations, this commercial always comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftZt-Dw_hQ

That's your own latent racism coming to the fore.

 

[fanboi]

It is our own Arjens favorite holiday/happening!

 

[dejay]

The black bodypaint is most likely racist too. Its hard to say though as many people remain ignorant of how racist it is considered in the US.

I really dislike this argument. Party goers in Australia shouldn't give two fucks about the sensibilities of Americans, the same way party goers in America shouldn't give two fucks about the sensibilities of Australians.

The Simpson's Australian episode was full of more stereotypes than you can shake a dead dingo's donger at, but if any Aussies told me they were offended by it I'd just laugh at them.

Saying that, it was unnecessary, but everything in context.

 

[Mael]

Welcome to Europe on December 6th.

Of course it would, see the top of my post.

If you are not the host, it is not your place to throw him out, and if the host is an ignorant fool of a child who won't do it or doesn't realise, why are you blaming all the other people at the party? It makes no sense.

And no, the facepaint is not of the same ilk as a KKK costume.

Ok let me rephrase because apparently I'm not clear enough.
How is the depiction of Africa, a whole continent, as a place populated by black skinned savages in any way not racist?

 

[Hot Coldman]

maybe we should just not paint our faces black for a while

you know, semantics aside, just... just don't do it

 

[Joni]

what's that???
I think it's specific to an european country and I have no idea of why they are dressed like this

It is the helpers of Sinterklaas, who are black because of the sout in the chimneys. They're the origins of the elves for Santa Claus. It is celebrated like this in Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Aruba, Suriname, Curaçao, Bonaire, and Indonesia.

Ok let me rephrase because apparently I'm not clear enough.
How is the depiction of Africa, a whole continent, as a place populated by black skinned savages in any way not racist?

First of all, we have only seen parts of the party. She was dressed as Cleopatra, as did some of her other guests. She stated others came as different animals, yet we have only seen the elephant in pictures; and others cames as important figures from African history. They have made a point to show the people the pictures of people that showed up as 'black skinned savages'. And what makes them savages? Because they wear animal clothing?

 

[Arjen]

It is our own Arjens favorite holiday/happening!

 

[roosters93]

Whenever I think of Australia and race relations, this commercial always comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftZt-Dw_hQ

This isn't racist though.

 

[dalin80]

Asides from KKK guy it looks like harmless fun.

 

[Dead Man]

Ok let me rephrase because apparently I'm not clear enough.
How is the depiction of Africa, a whole continent, as a place populated by black skinned savages in any way not racist?

That is an entirely different argument that your previous post. But okay. Ignoring all the attendees that weren't in some sort of shitty pseudo tribal garb, does some attendees wearing shitty pseudo tribal garb condemn the whole group? And why is wearing shitty tribal garb inherently racist, unless they were saying that is all that Africa is?

Whenever I think of Australia and race relations, this commercial always comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftZt-Dw_hQ

That would indicate nothing more than you being unable to understand that everyone likes chicken, that cricket is played in the Caribbean, and that the WI were traditional rivals for Australia in cricket.

 

[fanboi]

Ok let me rephrase because apparently I'm not clear enough.
How is the depiction of Africa, a whole continent, as a place populated by black skinned savages in any way not racist?

Read my previous comments on this, but in short:

YOU assume them as savages now, not them.

There are also a lot of other types of costumes.

 

[Irminsul]

Ok let me rephrase because apparently I'm not clear enough.
How is the depiction of Africa, a whole continent, as a place populated by black skinned savages in any way not racist?

Because, as I already said, it's a fucking costume party and not an accurate re-enactment of the history of Africa.

It's the same as doing a Scandinavian-themed party and having lots of horned vikings there who're pillaging jokingly.

As to why someone would depict this rather than modern-day Scandinavia or Africa: Someone already mentioned homogenisation trends, so to convey what you're doing, you have to go to the extremes and use stereotypes.

 

[jorma]

Oh it's a "white people wearing black makeup are always racist, because that's how it works in the US"-thread.

 

[fanboi]

Because, as I already said, it's a fucking costume party and not an accurate re-enactment of the history of Africa.

It's the same as doing a Scandinavian-themed party and having lots of horned vikings there who're pillaging jokingly.

As to why someone would depict this rather than modern-day Scandinavia or Africa: Someone already mentioned homogenisation trends, so to convey what you're doing, you have to go to the extremes and use stereotypes.

Ha!

Using modern day Swede at least, the party would be individual people standing 3-4 meters away from each other.

In context:

 

[lefantome]

Ok let me rephrase because apparently I'm not clear enough.
How is the depiction of Africa, a whole continent, as a place populated by black skinned savages in any way not racist?

it's a party, it's not a documentary or an official document/book/whatever

and yes Africa is mostly populated by black skinned people and it hosts tribes and people living outside modern society, more than any other continent(probably).
Using the word "savages" is racist.

 

[Joni]

Ha!

Using modern day Swede at least, the party would be individual people standing 3-4 meters away from each other.

So how is that different from any nerd party?

 

[jorma]

So how is that different from any nerd party?

The viking angle just sounds more fun to me.

 

[fanboi]

So how is that different from any nerd party?

Well usually true, but when I partying, I usually grope (correct word, I am trying to say pressing my groin against) all the people...

 

[way more]

Do you get offended when African-Americans make films that mock Whites with the use of painting their faces White. White face ok because only Whites can be racist according to you.

What about when they call us the H-word?

Spoiler

Honkey

Sob, or

Spoiler

Whitey?

Why!!!