Regular runway model here.
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2007/05/sexual_dimorphi/
Gotta appeal to the masses
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RPS ambushes Blizzard director for objectification of women in Heroes of the Storm
- Thread starter usea
- Start date
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2007/05/sexual_dimorphi/
Gotta appeal to the masses
Imperfected
Member
They were fair questions and there's nothing wrong with asking them, but his tone and demeanor could have been better. Heroes of the Storm is not out yet. The game is still in development and still subject to change. There's every possibility the female characters in the game will represent a nice balance of body types and personalities when it's released, in part or in full because of concerns expressed to the designers over such things.
And on the other side, the answer given could have, you know, paid due respect to the issue and the person asking the question. "We're not running for President," is probably not a particular good answer to any question other than, "Are you running for President?" Next time he could maybe try something along the lines of: "Of course, we've been looking at what other people have been doing in the MOBA space, and some of the feedback they've been getting. I think fans - men and women alike - will be very happy when they see what we've come up with, we've got world class artists working around the clock to make Heroes of the Storm the best game it can be."
I mean, it's still a non-answer and complete PR drivel besides, but it doesn't come off as saying, "LOL gurls."
Has this actually happened or is this just fallacious hyperbole?
Regular runway model here.
Its called sexualised.
Just because you dont beat off to it doesnt mean its not happening.
If you dont think there is a conscious effot to try and make the females 'sexy' then I dont know what to tell you. And theyre not doing it to empower them.
Jathaine
Member
And neither does what was said either.
What it comes off as from where I'm sitting is something more like "you're reading way too much into this."
Its a half truth with some sarcasm.
JordanN
Banned
Oh wow. He made no mention of casting aside women (or even referencing gender for that matter).
Unless you know how "Uh-huh. Cool. Totally." denotes gender in any way, I'm ready to hear it.
....what? Having breast = sexualized? Are they suppose to make females look just like men and make the breast the size of a child? Are you being serious right now?Its called sexualised.
Just because you dont beat off to it doesnt mean its not happening.
If you dont think there is a conscious effot to try and make the females 'sexy' then I dont know what to tell you. And theyre not doing it to empower them.
Just because its happening doesn't mean it shouldn't be happening.
People can make whatever they want.
Sex is a healthy, normal part of most people's lives. Erotic art is an expression of the most basic aspect of what makes us human. World of Warcraft could be hardcore animated pornography, and there would be no moral imperative to change anything in it.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Lots of women play WoW by the way.
Its called sexualised.
Just because you dont beat off to it doesnt mean its not happening.
If you dont think there is a conscious effot to try and make the females 'sexy' then I dont know what to tell you. And theyre not doing it to empower them.
Are you high? There is a difference between feminine and sexualized. You are smoking crack if you think thats anything other than female models that have FEMININE looks versus Male models that have Masculine looks. The only one you could even remotely argue there is the goblin. And even then its not the model, its the clothing. Everyone in WoW at max level is covered in shoulderpads the size of continents and whatnot.
Yes.
Clearly the breasts are the point of contention.
I agree. Women shouldnt have breasts and they should look like men.
There should be no sexes in games because apparently, thats the only option there is to what we get most of the time.
Im so scared of being called sexist that ive made this all up in my mind.
You are fine, carry on, everything is normal. And people will consider videogames a fine art. up there with porn, or even a michael bay movie.
youve won. Im defeated. I am wrong, everyone is that thinks differently to you. Your right. Congratsuations.
I will never ask questions again, no one will. We will all be happy with what we have cause they have the right to do what they want. And we dont have a right to question it. It all makes sense now.
Its called sexualised.
Just because you dont beat off to it doesnt mean its not happening.
If you dont think there is a conscious effot to try and make the females 'sexy' then I dont know what to tell you. And theyre not doing it to empower them.
Um, they look female to me? whats the problem here?
If i pick a female character i expect a variation to know im actually playing a female.
Femmeworth
Banned
Even if the interviewer was acting out of line, Browder's responses reek of a combination of ignorance and disingenuity. Maybe it's better to say he is shirking from responsibility. Whether they intend to or not, they are sending a message. All art is communication. Even if video games are not necessarily art, they at least have artistic elements and thus communicate something.
There is none. Clearly.
I cant even tell the difference between the males and females. I think I was smoking crack, been in toronto recently.
Judging from their arguments and terminology you could say that most feminists live in their own amish world. Hyper-sexualization and objectification are just some of the words they constantly use to vilify human sexuality.
And you know how that problem will be solved in many games? Make all the characters men.
Done, problem solved.
You are right. Wow is a great example of not what we are talking about. I was wrong to bring it up. Blizzard does not objectify its females, especially not in wow.
I mean, I was insane to even consider it. Just look at those pictures! What was I thinking?!
So a woman should not look "womanly" to you? your complaining about breast size? you realize there a woman who are MASSIVELY proportioned in that area in REAL LIFE, correct?
How should they look mate, please enlighten me.
Good. It's nice knowing that you can't explain yourself and answer me or Cipherr with a proper response. Glad I don't have to waste any time trying to understand your "logic".
Guys im sorry.
I was wrong to suggest there may be something sexist to any of this.
Clearly I am simply projecting my own sexism onto others.
That makes alot more sense.
There is no problem with the portrayal of females in blizzard games or gaming in general.
Anyone that says so is wrong cause obv.
Why would I bother with normal responses to men (or maybe im being sexist, cause I have a feeling you are all male) who cant even 'see' it?
Its like trying to convince someone global climate change is real. If you willingly dont want to see something, its easy as hell not to.
I was wrong to suggest there may be something sexist to any of this.
Clearly I am simply projecting my own sexism onto others.
That makes alot more sense.
There is no problem with the portrayal of females in blizzard games or gaming in general.
Anyone that says so is wrong cause obv.
Why would I bother with normal responses to men (or maybe im being sexist, cause I have a feeling you are all male) who cant even 'see' it?
Its like trying to convince someone global climate change is real. If you willingly dont want to see something, its easy as hell not to.
Have you guys ever seen women dress in skimpy and revealing costumes for Halloween? Honest question.
If you had, you might have noticed that a great many women enjoy erotic fashion mixed with fantasy settings. A great many women love video game characters exactly the way they are.
If you personally like women with zero hint of sexuality and with modest clothing, more power to you. Go support the games that cater to your taste. Try and encourage others to buy those games too. Get Portal, and The Last of Us, and Remember Me, and Beyond: Two Souls, and Uncharted, and on and on.
But don't act like you have even a shred of moral high ground over others. There is nothing wrong with sexualization, or erotic art, and many men and women enjoy it. And we have the right to play any game we want that caters to us. We support it with our money.
This is the number one musician out there now, with primarily a female fanbase. Lady Gaga.
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2013/news/130826/lady-gaga-2-600.jpg
Look at the picture. You guys are acting like you've never even seen a rated R movie before. It's ABSURD. That picture is mainstream America. As mainstream as it fucking gets.
If you had, you might have noticed that a great many women enjoy erotic fashion mixed with fantasy settings. A great many women love video game characters exactly the way they are.
If you personally like women with zero hint of sexuality and with modest clothing, more power to you. Go support the games that cater to your taste. Try and encourage others to buy those games too. Get Portal, and The Last of Us, and Remember Me, and Beyond: Two Souls, and Uncharted, and on and on.
But don't act like you have even a shred of moral high ground over others. There is nothing wrong with sexualization, or erotic art, and many men and women enjoy it. And we have the right to play any game we want that caters to us. We support it with our money.
This is the number one musician out there now, with primarily a female fanbase. Lady Gaga.
http://img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2013/news/130826/lady-gaga-2-600.jpg
Look at the picture. You guys are acting like you've never even seen a rated R movie before. It's ABSURD. That picture is mainstream America. As mainstream as it fucking gets.
Murder. She Wrote
Member
Yes, let's just blatantly hyperbolize and demonize feminism, they are the real enemies here.
Last time I checked, female pandas and wolves didn't have breasts like that. Yes, it is a fantasy game, but while I don't find anything offensive about these design, it just strikes me as lazy design, as if they say 'how do we make these humanoid animals look female? Just add boobs, that'll do.'
Id stop now, your not doing yourself any favors.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
So were now comparing WoW fantasy HUMANOID CHARACTERS to real wolves and pandas..
Grabbing at straws.
Dougstyles
Banned
Passive aggressive much?
I have no idea what you were thinking to be honest. There is nothing wrong with those models you posted. Females have boobs and tend to be smaller than men, I'm not sure what your issue is with biology.
Last time I checked, male pandas and wolves didn't stand on two legs and cast magical spells either. Oh the horror!
You won, ive been goomba curb stomped by your intelligent arguments.
Clearly, in nature, females often look like a different species, half the size of their male counter parts. To suggest otherwise would be a crime.
That was absurd. Good on this Browder guy for giving reasonable answers to those questions though.
Fantasy video games have fantastical character art, shocking news. I really don't get it. I flipped through a bunch of LoL skins randomly, and just about all of them (male, female, non-human) are ridiculously non-realistic. Should I be offended at all the male characters who have like, absolutely ripped abs and huge well-defined deltoids?
Fantasy video games have fantastical character art, shocking news. I really don't get it. I flipped through a bunch of LoL skins randomly, and just about all of them (male, female, non-human) are ridiculously non-realistic. Should I be offended at all the male characters who have like, absolutely ripped abs and huge well-defined deltoids?
It makes zero sense, evolutionarily and otherwise, for such large mammals to exhibit such huge differences in size and facial structure between the sexes. The designs of the females of those races were clearly created with aesthetics in mind, and then with an eye towards appealing to men.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
And so it ends like so many of its kind before it, with a whimper, not a bang.
YOU SEXIST! Are you suggesting they designed this to appeal to males?!?! Why do you hate women?!
Because it's their art style and people find it fun. There are several other styles elsewhere that are more realistic but a lot of people who play video games want to escape and not be forced to face important world issues in a video game. They want to have fun. Remember fun?
Hyperbole for now. Though penny arcades' review for pc release of KOF13 was pretty amazing.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/...oves-online-play-doesnt-improve-casual-racism
Dougstyles
Banned
Human males are generally larger than human females. The characters were created to be relatable. That's why the males are larger than the females. That's also why they are walking on two legs instead of four. Because they are meant to be humanoid, and thus, relatable.
I can't believe we're even having this conversation. Those designs are as inoffensive as it gets.
Imperfected
Member
No one (or very nearly no one) is saying that. No one is saying that all women in games should be thoroughly covered up, should have small breasts, or even that they should not be overtly (or even aggressively!) sexual entities. I honestly don't think anyone wants that or is suggesting that.
What people want is for there to be games where the representation of women includes a broad spectrum of body types, personalities, and styles of dress. They want to have the option of playing a conservatively-dressed or professional-looking woman in these games, rather than having literally every female character in the game be blatantly sexualized.
No, they don't want "more beefcake" - well, okay, I'm sure there are people who want that, but it's an entirely different issue. No, the fact that Illidan is sexy and shirtless does not make it all even-stevens. Try to imagine a game where every male character is grossly sexualized (hint: Cho Aniki) and you might start to understand the problem: not that sexualized options exist, but that non-sexualized options often don't, or at least not in any respectable numbers and variety.
You can play as an old, bearded man or a soldier in a mechanized suit of armor. You can even play as overweight or otherwise conventionally "unattractive" male characters in many of these games. If you want to play as a female character, though, you often only have one general body type that's been applied to them across the board. It's off-putting for many female players.
And what games would those be? What moba game caters to people who don't want sexualised characters? What fighting games? What action games? Do these games play as well as League, or Bayonetta or DOA? While I don't want sexulised characters to be erased from gaming, if you want to play only games with respectible female characters it shrinks your gaming options quite drastically, especially in certain genres.
Also, please dont think that just because some woman dress in sexy clothes, that that means that female character designs don't bother women, and make them less likely to try getting into games.
Oh give it up already. Stop arguing about fictional species in fantasy games and how the genders of those species should look. Last time i checked, giant goat like creatures don't have thumbs or hands, don't walk on two feet, and don't have well define six packs. They also probably couldn't talk.
You should be making arguments about other games. Like starcraft (nova, kerrigan).
Play Video game
Humanoid Wolves, Humanoid, Cows and Goats
Expect SCIENTIFIC PHYSIOLOGICAL traits.
OH WAIT
Do Humanoid Wolves, Cows and Goats? exist?????? i haven't seen any, i need some of this scientific factual evidence you have sir?
Professor Lich
Member
Is it wrong to have characters that are pleasing to look at though?(For either sex anyway.)
I also get your point, but you're trying to make sense out of a game with bird people, space mummies, Cthulhu and pals, with all other sorts of crazy nonsense. Is it that bad if the male and female bodies don't match up 100% anatomically?
I guess the only way to 'win,' here is to have Blizzard put in sliders and have players make their own body builds.
Edit: I now understand how five people can end up quoting one post and all say the same thing at one time.
Dougstyles
Banned
Sexualized female characters can't be respectable?
Its called sexualised.
Just because you dont beat off to it doesnt mean its not happening.
If you dont think there is a conscious effot to try and make the females 'sexy' then I dont know what to tell you. And theyre not doing it to empower them.
I don't understand why you claim WoW is sexualized and then post clearly non-sexualized examples (with, perhaps, the exception of the worgen lady, who falls into both the sexualized and the trying-too-hard camps).
That said, I love RPS for pointing the problem. There is a reason Gamasutra and RPS are my only two gaming journalism bookmarks.
Not that much larger, and certainly not with such commensurate differences in posture and facial structure.
The females are designed to look like attractive human females rather than distaff counterparts of the males of their own race. The decision to effectuate such a design was obviously (and probably wisely) made for marketing purposes, but it still reflects a certain degree of systemic sexism in media.
I don't expect that at all. But when a game has a race of humanoid space goats where the males resemble impossibly musclebound colossi and the females resemble runway models, the decisions the designers are making are fairly obvious.
GAF: We want real video game journalists! Not sycophants!
[Game journalist asks hard questions.]
GAF: What is this bullshit! Stop taking everything so seriously!
Ok, the above is hyperbole -- I'm not suggesting the GAF hivemind, but there is some hypocrisy here. We seem to attack gaming media if they don't ask the hard questions, then we attack them when they do.
The thing is -- they're just questions, and they should be pretty easy to answer. If you've ever come down on the side that games can be art, then you have to accept the premise that all games send a message ... they're communicating something.
I just think it's really horrible to attack someone for just exploring concepts and ideas -- there is nothing wrong with thinking deeper about things. And, if it angers you to look beneath there surface, then I'd have to suggest -- there's something definitely wrong there. People only lash out when their embarrassed or afraid.
[Game journalist asks hard questions.]
GAF: What is this bullshit! Stop taking everything so seriously!
Ok, the above is hyperbole -- I'm not suggesting the GAF hivemind, but there is some hypocrisy here. We seem to attack gaming media if they don't ask the hard questions, then we attack them when they do.
The thing is -- they're just questions, and they should be pretty easy to answer. If you've ever come down on the side that games can be art, then you have to accept the premise that all games send a message ... they're communicating something.
I just think it's really horrible to attack someone for just exploring concepts and ideas -- there is nothing wrong with thinking deeper about things. And, if it angers you to look beneath there surface, then I'd have to suggest -- there's something definitely wrong there. People only lash out when their embarrassed or afraid.
Humanoid animals dont have to have boobs to appear female, Blizzard just does it because it easier to do then making them distinct in other ways.