New age nintendo fan logic: If it's not Mario, Zelda or Pokemon its obscure / If it's a character that requires me to google search they don't deserve to be in.
Super Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS Thread 3: Ridley's Believe It or Not!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
New age nintendo fan logic: If it's not Mario, Zelda or Pokemon its obscure / If it's a character that requires me to google search they don't deserve to be in.
Lord_Byron28
Member
What games are we counting here? She's been in the two galaxy games, world and the two MK's which brings the total to 5 unless you are including unreleased games. Also if we are counting spinoffs we could count Ridley in Brawl(also cameos in 64 & Melee) and Dead or Alive
imensions. Its been a while since I've played Brawl or used Ike but doesn't he possess some similar moves to Marth?
Red Arremer
Member
So, I've been thinking. Might there be a reason why Nintendo is putting Rosalina into so many games lately? Could there be something behind the fact they're trying to make her more widely known and popular by putting her into basically every Mario spin-off, the latest mainline game, AND Smash?
I have this feeling that perhaps they might branch out Rosalina in the future. Give her her own series kinda like Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario did. I mean, those 3 - especially the latter 2 - play nowhere near an important role in the main line game, but they along with the "classic 5" (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach and Toad) form the 8 Mario series mainliners.
It seems to me as if Nintendo is trying to fit Rosalina into that lineup. She's already been significantly more important to the main series than Wario or Donkey Kong. Additionally, she would be the second (!) female character to make it into the main Mario lineup. Perhaps it's Nintendo's attempt to address their female players more, giving them a character they can identify more with, as Rosalina obviously is not the stereotypical ditzy princess that Peach gets portrayed as.
I dunno, I'm just speculating around for no reason and want to share it lol.
I have this feeling that perhaps they might branch out Rosalina in the future. Give her her own series kinda like Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario did. I mean, those 3 - especially the latter 2 - play nowhere near an important role in the main line game, but they along with the "classic 5" (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach and Toad) form the 8 Mario series mainliners.
It seems to me as if Nintendo is trying to fit Rosalina into that lineup. She's already been significantly more important to the main series than Wario or Donkey Kong. Additionally, she would be the second (!) female character to make it into the main Mario lineup. Perhaps it's Nintendo's attempt to address their female players more, giving them a character they can identify more with, as Rosalina obviously is not the stereotypical ditzy princess that Peach gets portrayed as.
I dunno, I'm just speculating around for no reason and want to share it lol.
Green Mamba
Member
The only move he shares with Marth is counter. Outside of that, they're about as far removed from each other as two sword wielding guys can be.
The Bankslammer
Member
Between her role in 3D World (getting Mario's moves from Galaxy) and Smash (using a lot of moves based on elements of the Galaxy series), I think that they're just making her the representative of the Mario Galaxy series from here on out. It doesn't hurt that she's gotten really warm fan reception and has cool design and backstory, though. But I think that's about all there is to it.
No aside from counter.
That depends on how big Ridley is compared to Samus.
Nothing, because Olimar is still visible.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't be upset if Ike didn't return. Supposing for a moment the development team has time to develop precisely 50 characters, no more and no less, then it doesn't seem to me Ike would occupy a top 50 slot of eligible Nintendo characters, particularly when his saga within Fire Emblem is finished and there is now a more recent one. Fire Emblem would do nicely with just Marth and Chrom.
Although if they put Sigurd in, I will happily turn over my soul to the devil as a thanks for him fulfilling my carnal desires.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I think its more likely the latter with trying than the former. They don't have enough staff to release games in all the different ips they would like to. I doubt theh are trying to buildup a Rosalina spinoff entry. I also am not sure if Nintendo really thinks quite as much about focus testing, marketing and demographs when pushing Rosalina as a major Mario characters. I could be wrong but Nintendo for better and worse has never striked me as that kind of company or else we wouldve had minority races, female and gay characters shoehorned into many Nintendo games or shoving different mascots into different popular stereotypes to appeal to wider audiences.
Wouldn't surprise me. Has she appeared in Mario Party yet? Because I can see her appearing in Mario Party 10 (if the WiiU ever gets one). Possibly her own game as well like the other mainliners (except Toad) have got. Also the possibility of Rosalina's costume appearing in third party games on Wii U (what few there will be).
SkullHydra
Member
I think replacing Ike with Chrom is very possible. I especially like the idea of a tag team combo with the Avatar.
It'd be awesome if the game could read your 3DS data to use your own character as the outfit for the Avatar as well.
Lord of the Day
Red Arremer
Member
That depends on the game, really. In some (particularly the 3D ones) he's been portrayed as absolutely massive, but in others he's comparably small.
There's also the issue that there's like 4 different Ridley versions too.
I guess. It just feels like more is going on than just representing the 2 Galaxy games. I mean, we didn't get somebody representing Mario 64, for instance. Heck, most of the unique enemies in that game never made it into any other game (I'm trying to think of some that did, but ... none really come up).
Or somebody for Mario Sunshine. Bowser Jr. is the closest, I guess, but since Sunshine, he's been the antagonist for other series as well (in particular the NSMB games), and he didn't even use the paintbrush there.
Wario and Daisy also could barely be called to represent the Land games. There's been absolutely no references to those 2 games in any other Mario games they appeared in, except for a couple of tracks from the first SML. But we've never seen Tatanga again, or visited Sarasaland, or Mario's Castle, or heard of the 6 golden coins again.
I dunno, it just seems weird to me. I'm pretty sure they're pushing her a bit to add her to the main lineup. For some reason. I dunno.
She's not appeared as playable in Mario Party yet, but I dunno about the 3DS Mario Party game. I only heard that she was going to get her own board dedicated to the Galaxy series and her. Also that she only wasn't in the 3DS Mario Tennis because of time restraints, which is why they added in Luma (that was said by the producer or lead designer of that game I think, in an interview).
Also Toad has gotten an own game, it's called Wario's Woods. Really late in the NES' lifespan, though.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Because people think it's very likely Chrom will get included. If you have Ike, Chrom, and Marth, that's three Fire Emblem characters, and in all honesty Fire Emblem just isn't an important enough series to occupy what will probably be a thirteenth of Smash's rosters - it'd be a disservice to other series who deserve either their first rep or another rep befitting their status.
They're holding hands (ﾉ￣д￣ﾉ
Cuuuute <3
Star fox.
Just because Roy got cut (even he was planned to be in Brawl) doesn't mean that Ike is likely to get cut too. He's not even a clone and he wasn't included for promotional sake.
Fire Emblem sells better than Star Fox (which has 3 characters) these days to be fair.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Yeah the strange thing is that the cutscene with Ridley in Melee seemed like a good size without being too large or being awkward as a fighter.
Also with the exception of SM64, most of those games aren't that pivotal to the Mario series as Galaxy is which is why they don't need representation. I'd say the pivotal games in the series go like this: SMB-SMB3-SMW-SM64-SMG
The reason we don't hear about anything from the Mario Land games is because Miyamoto wasn't directly involved with the development. From a 'canon' standpoint they never really happened.
Hey, that's their opinion - not mine. I still think Ike sucks, but whatever if he stays in.
Of all Snakes, Raiden is the most likely.
Seriously though, although Big Boss is the most popular these days, I'd rather it were Solid.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I really don't mind one of the Star Fox characters getting cut, either. If they continued to have three reps when the last new Star Fox game was Command in 2006, I'd be a bit annoyed, especially when Nintendo has so many new characters from the Wii and late DS/3DS era to draw upon.
In all three of those cases, it was a gameplay conceit that got a character, not a character that got a game. Being popular doesn't hurt, but Nintendo is driven by new ideas above all else.
Red Arremer
Member
Please people. Get off of that "slot" line of thinking.
Smash Bros. 4 without character X would just be that - Smash Bros. 4 without character X. There would be no other "rep" to fill that void a scrapped character would leave behind to "occupy".
To make way for Palutena of course.
Whenever Rosalina shows up it seems more like honoring Galaxy 1 (she was only a cameo in 2) than her being a self contained character. I would like to see the Galaxy series expand and branch out though.
As far as other characters having their own series, only Mario, Yoshi, Wario, and DK branched out. Luigi has 2 spinoffs, Peach has 1, and Bowser only got a starring role in an RPG so I don't see Rosalina beating them out. (I'd dig a Captain Toad eShop game though!)
As far as other characters having their own series, only Mario, Yoshi, Wario, and DK branched out. Luigi has 2 spinoffs, Peach has 1, and Bowser only got a starring role in an RPG so I don't see Rosalina beating them out. (I'd dig a Captain Toad eShop game though!)
Everybody must be cut to make way for the glorious Lady Palutena.
They could cut the middleman and make a composite version of Ridley with features of several of his incarnations (similar to Mario), for instance a greenish-gray Ridley like in Zero Mission, with Metroid 1 scale, but Meta, Omega and Ridley X's skills.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Why? It's true. Super Smash Bros. has a certain amount of development time allocated to it. Characters take a certain amount of that time to develop. That means there is a finite number of possible characters, and that if you add another character, you either have to increase the development time or cut an existing character. They can spend 3 months developing Ike, or 3 months developing Chrom, or 6 months developing Ike and Chrom - but that last option means 3 months got taken away from some other character. It's just juvenile to pretend that this opportunity cost doesn't exist.
Red Arremer
Member
Agreed.
Who's representative of SMB3, then? I mean, yeah, quite a few of the enemies made it through into other games, particularly like Boo and Dry Bones have been playable in other games since then, but there's no character in the "main lineup" either.
As said, I think Rosalina is being pushed for -some- reason.
Ah. Bummer, I really liked those games. And Tatanga. I wish Tatanga would come back.
I suppose. It was just a hypothesis after all, because I don't think that at this point, Nintendo would give a supporting character so much exposure just to advertise a particular game within their biggest franchise.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Toad also had a spinoff game as well on the NES. Also Captain Toad levels are pretty similar to pushmo and crashmo on the eshop now. Also I'd say Luigi's Mansion is Luigi's own branched out series.
The Bankslammer
Member
In addition to the Galaxy games's relative significance, it's also the most thematically removed from the rest of the games (Sunshine aside, but that's why Mario has FLUDD). It has the largest number of elements that are different than the rest of the series, enough that it seems to justify its own character. I mean, Rosalina's moveset doesn't even seen to have anything taken from any games aside the Galaxy ones.
I hope it's the same one that was in Brawl...which is some Solid Snake/Big Boss hybrid.
This too. I feel like people are setting themselves up for a fall. It's better to take it as it is and enjoy the ride than to get stuck in self-perceived boundaries or guidelines you think the developers are working in.
Hell, if some folks were right about how Smash rosters worked, we probably wouldn't have had Falcon in Smash 1, anything Earthbound in Melee (forget Fire Emblem) and Brawl's roster wouldn't have had 3rd party guests or Pit,
Bowser's down special is his primary attack in SMB3~
theprodigy
Member
"slots" exist, if you think the inclusion of one character doesn't make the chances of others less likely I don't know what to tell you
it's not like they have infinite development time
Who are you even talking to/about? Nobody actually thinks this, but you've been posting this shit ad-nauseam despite the fact that pretty much every poster here has their own lesser known character that they are personally rooting for.
I wouldn't allocate the same amount of time to a returning character compared to an all new one. They're blatantly starting with Brawl's assets as a base and making changes as needed from there, and while that's no small amount of work in its own right, it cuts out an awful lot of conceptual effort.
Slot = Development time and resources.
Someone claimed Ridley was obscure, which is insane and I could care less if he could get in. There are tons of people supporting Bowser Jr. Several Zelda characters little to do with representing entire series.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think the concept of 'slots' is used for predicting rosters, more as a guide-line as to what someone thinks a roster should be - there's a strong difference between those. If I personally were in charge of the Smash roster, then Ike almost certainly wouldn't be in, given I'd rather dedicate that development time to others. If I were to make a prediction about whether Ike will be in the Smash rosters, that's another question entirely.
Well we still don't know if his Down-B and Side-B have returned so there is still hope!
I predict Luma doing something cute.