Super Smash Bros Wii U & 3DS Thread 4: New Year, Old Arguments

I still think an Excitebike racer would make for a fun retro character. The game is really well known, and there isn't anyone in Smash Bros. who is permanently attached to a vehicle. He'd certainly be unique.

MmKOe9p.png


Standard attacks - bike rams, wheelies, turns, etc.
Air attacks - motocross tricks
Standard (or down) special move - turbo boost
Up special move - ramp jump
Final Smash - Excitebike (ramps and hills appear on the stage as AI-controlled bikers ride around wreaking havoc)
 
Does anyone predict a slight website design change after this week off?

I remember on the Brawl site there was a very basic site for a couple of months, then they brought out the Dojo blog and started releasing more substantial content. The current website and its minimalist design is nice but it could do with a little something, but I don't know what.

It just seems so odd they'd take a week off as well, I would've imagined the week before to be more apt for a holiday week away, but maybe since we've officially entered the new year now we may be getting an all-new site, but I wouldn't bet on it.
 
Neiteio said:
Wait, was that Stunt Race FX theme in Brawl?

Apparently this fully orchestrated version of the Stunt Race FX was found on the Brawl disk?
Click to expand...

There got to be some pretty popular misconceptions about "lost tracks" found on Brawl's disk, but in truth it was just a list of names somewhere within the game's files which evidenced the fact that some songs may have been intended to be put in Brawl, some of which didn't make it for (presumably, this is speculation on my part based off of the history of these songs) legal reasons, such as the SMRPG Forest Theme, MGS2 Theme and You Can Do Anything from Sonic CD, some of which for unknown other reasons.

Starting with a remix of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms from SMRPG as being labelled one of Brawl's "lost tracks" found on the disc, it seems that some fan remixes have been falsely identified as music found on the disc, that being one of them, I suppose.

I believe the list of names found only included songs from already represented franchises, though. Not sure where you can find an accurate list.
 
The Bankslammer said:
There got to be some pretty popular misconceptions about "lost tracks" found on Brawl's disk, but in truth it was just a list of names somewhere within the game's files which evidenced the fact that some songs may have been intended to be put in Brawl, some of which didn't make it for (presumably, this is speculation on my part based off of the history of these songs) legal reasons, such as the SMRPG Forest Theme, MGS2 Theme and You Can Do Anything from Sonic CD, some of which for unknown other reasons.

Starting with a remix of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms from SMRPG as being labelled one of Brawl's "lost tracks" found on the disc, it seems that some fan remixes have been falsely identified as music found on the disc, that being one of them, I suppose.

I believe the list of names found only included songs from already represented franchises, though. Not sure where you can find an accurate list.
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Oh man, Brawl almost had a remix of the SMRPG forest theme?! :-O
 
powerdrain said:
It just seems so odd they'd take a week off as well, I would've imagined the week before to be more apt for a holiday week away, but maybe since we've officially entered the new year now we may be getting an all-new site, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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New Year's is a much bigger holiday in Japan than Christmas, and Sakurai took a week off from the Brawl Dojo for New Year's as well. I wouldn't look into it too much.
 
Neiteio said:
Wait, was that Stunt Race FX theme in Brawl?

Apparently this fully orchestrated version of the Stunt Race FX was found on the Brawl disk?
Click to expand...
No, I modded Brawl's music to put in my own.

As for your link, that's from an old Japanese video game music concert. All that was found on the disc was the name of the songs (well just the datafiles so some like snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO doesn't even tell you what game its from apart from it's a Mario one). Stunt Race FX's is snd_bgm_R01_WILDTRACKS so all that tells us is that it was music from the game. A person who runs a site called Videogame Scrapbook (will not link since download links to game music is iffy) put together an album of songs from various sources to give an idea of what they could have sounded like. That's album has spread round the web given people the false impression that actual music files were found on the disc when the reality is there are none.
 
C.Olimar788 said:
All right, I'm just gonna go ahead and throw one more point out on this because this particular argument is more frustrating than any other argument for Other M.

A character is NOT solely defined by what they say. To suggest that Samus wasn't a character before Other M is absolutely preposterous. By that token, the titular character in WALL-E has no character because he never really speaks.

Samus was NEVER a blank slate. Not even in Metroid 1, and certainly not through the rest of the franchise where she constantly reminds the player of who she is even as she stays silent. Other M took what she was and... well, turned her into something else. It weakened her character considerably in nonsensical cutscenes, making her suddenly unable to kill Ridley or destroy the Metroid without the help from a man.

And if you're using the manga to justify Other M's blatant mistreatment of Samus' character, well... I have to ask if you've read the manga. Because I have, and within it Samus is fleshed out considerably, but never made weak. She is made strong, made able to push past her limitations and (surprise!) defeat Ridley. Considering that took place... what, twenty years before Other M? It's an absolute injustice to her character to have her regress to weaker than she was in the manga.

Actions speak louder than words. Hell, Samus' actions in Other M speak louder to her tarnished character than her monotonous monologues ever do.

If you want more information on why Other M is awful, I highly recommend this short video and this long review on the game as a whole.
Click to expand...

So, if I never beat the original Metroid because it was too hard, does that mean Samus was weak? If I did nothing in Super Metroid but shoot the weakest enemies at a spawn point, does that mean Samus is cruel? If all I did in Metroid II was roll around on the ceiling with the spider ball, does that mean she's a loon?

All there were to those games was what the player did. It's not that her not talking made her a blank slate character, it's that she literally did nothing else.

I don't need to watch videos to tell me a video game I played is bad. I've played through Other M. I've played through every Metroid game. It's not a series I'm unfamiliar with. Other M had a shitty, unnecessary story. But that shouldn't matter. The game itself, the part that you play, the part that matters, was mediocre at best. That's what people should focus on.

Like, if the exact same cutscenes were in place but the game was actually good... well there'd still be people saying it was the worst game ever because of the story.

I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore. I guess that the game wasn't bad because the story was shit (it is) and that Samus's characterization wasn't awful outside of listening to Adam when it made no sense to do so. Oh, and that she totally was a blank character in her early games.

The game gives reasons why she acts the way she does and it comes to a conclusion where she does her own thing. They were going for something. It was just executed awfully.

And none of it matters because it's just a stupid story more people should talk about the gameplay goddammit.
 
BGBW said:
No, I modded Brawl's music to put in my own.

As for your link, that's from an old Japanese video game music concert. All that was found on the disc was the name of the songs (well just the datafiles so some like snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO doesn't even tell you what game its from apart from it's a Mario one). Stunt Race FX's is snd_bgm_R01_WILDTRACKS so all that tells us is that it was music from the game. A person who runs a site called Videogame Scrapbook (will not link since download links to game music is iffy) put together an album of songs from various sources to give an idea of what they could have sounded like. That's album has spread round the web given people the false impression that actual music files were found on the disc when the reality is there are none.
Click to expand...
Ah, thank you for the clarification! :)
 
Neiteio said:
Oh man, Brawl almost had a remix of the SMRPG forest theme?! :-O
Click to expand...
No, the file in question is named snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO which means Mushroom Forest. Now because people know of the Mario RPG tune 'Beware of Forest Mushroom' it was assumed it must be that, however due to it's ordering (A12) the other theory is that is it 'Toadwood Forest' from Partners in Time.
 
The Bankslammer said:
For those curious about Brawl's "lost music", this should have you covered.
Click to expand...
That's some interesting trivia at the link there. Particularly this:

"There are also references to a number of victory fanfares, which indicate that every fighter was to have their own unique fanfare at some point. In the final, Meta Knight is the only character to have a unique fanfare. It also references fanfares for Mewtwo and Roy."

And this:

"An unused (and empty) effect file for Ridley is located at effect/assist/ef_ast_ridley.pac on the disc, suggesting that at some point Ridley was considered to be used as an Assist Trophy."

BGBW said:
No, the file in question is named snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO which means Mushroom Forest. Now because people know of the Mario RPG tune 'Beware of Forest Mushroom' it was assumed it must be that, however due to it's ordering (A12) the other theory is that is it 'Toadwood Forest' from Partners in Time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read that at Bankslammer's link -- quite interesting, indeed!
 
BGBW said:
No, the file in question is named snd_bgm_A12_MORINOKINOKO which means Mushroom Forest. Now because people know of the Mario RPG tune 'Beware of Forest Mushroom' it was assumed it must be that, however due to it's ordering (A12) the other theory is that is it 'Toadwood Forest' from Partners in Time.
Click to expand...

Eh, I feel people are too dismissive of the possibility of it being Beware the Forest's Mushrooms. Firstly, the file name in the game, "MORINOKINOKO" is much more similar to Beware the Forest Mushroom's name (Mori no Kinoko ni go Youjin) than Toadwood Forest's (Kinoopuru no Mori). Secondly, one is the most iconic piece of its game (a more popular game, at that) and the other is a track that's hardly recognizable at all. It'd certainly be a very, very odd pick. Also, the fact that it didn't get added into the game in the end potentially indicates some sort of issue with the track, such as the legal issues that could crop up over use of Mario RPG music (though there's a number of other reasons a given song might not be added as well).

Now, there are very fair counterarguments, such as its positioning in the list and the fact that there's another M&L2 track that didn't get added to the game, but I just have trouble believing that a random track from M&L2 was considered for the game.

edit: Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were being dismissive. It's more that the page I linked earlier doesn't even mention the possibility of the track being something else, despite it still being a very real possibility. I at least think it's another possibility that's likely enough to be worth mentioning as well. I am all for clearing up misunderstandings, and ones about Brawl's music are plentiful.
 
It's less about being dismissive and more educating others that there is no concrete proof that a Super Mario RPG tunes was considered for Brawl. There is a possibility, yes, but it certainly isn't as black and white as the Stunt Race FX data name.

There are still people out there who think SoaD is responsible for that infamous Legend of Zelda cover because someone misnamed the file and spread it online. It's always good to clear up misunderstandings.
 
I couldn't sleep last night, body was hurting from working all day, so I woke up in the middle of the night and started watching random smash battles, trailers ( the new rosalina trailer looks godly on my tv via wii u's internet browser. Then I started listening to the brawl soundtrack, man I loved all the remixed music in that game, I hope sakurai brings back all the big name video game composers like Yoko shimomura, Uematsu, and maybe ..he can even bring in David wise q.q
 
theprodigy said:
WFT loses frames on all shielding due to laugh frames, bottom tier confirmed

:P
Click to expand...

vader.jpg


Neiteio said:
That's some interesting trivia at the link there. Particularly this:

"There are also references to a number of victory fanfares, which indicate that every fighter was to have their own unique fanfare at some point. In the final, Meta Knight is the only character to have a unique fanfare. It also references fanfares for Mewtwo and Roy."
Click to expand...

Being SS class tier just wasn't enough for him. :/
 
On another note, who keeps track of the avatar claims? I'd like to put in a claim for Toon Sheik (not Tetra) if that hasn't been done yet.
 
Gartooth said:
Brawl had ass Zelda stages, still holding out for time frozen Hyrule Castle from Wind Waker.
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Eh, sepia-toned/monochrome Hyrule Castle would get old quick. It's much more interesting once color returns.

For a "Toon" stage in the WiiU version, I'd like an expanded version of the Great Sea, this time visiting Outset Island, Windfall, Forsaken Fortress, etc. The time of day and weather could change throughout. They could even include sub-options for the stage that allow you to start at a specific island and even stay there if you so desire.
 
EhoaVash said:
I couldn't sleep last night, body was hurting from working all day, so I woke up in the middle of the night and started watching random smash battles, trailers ( the new rosalina trailer looks godly on my tv via wii u's internet browser. Then I started listening to the brawl soundtrack, man I loved all the remixed music in that game, I hope sakurai brings back all the big name video game composers like Yoko shimomura, Uematsu, and maybe ..he can even bring in David wise q.q
Click to expand...

This, this, and this. If there was ever a possiblity for largely-varied 3rd party involvement in Smash, it would likely be in the music. I don't know if Shimomura produced this piece in specific, but The Darkness of the Unknown from Kingdom Hearts 3D (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YCMzbt8PYs) would make for a near-perfect fit in Final Destination, don't know if you guys would agree =)
 
Neiteio said:
Eh, sepia-toned/monochrome Hyrule Castle would get old quick. It's much more interesting once color returns.

For a "Toon" stage in the WiiU version, I'd like an expanded version of the Great Sea, this time visiting Outset Island, Windfall, Forsaken Fortress, etc. The time of day and weather could change throughout. They could even include sub-options for the stage that allow you to start at a specific island and even stay there if you so desire.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the time mechanic could be interesting for gameplay. When frozen for instance, enemies are in the background and rubble is in the sky as floating platforms. When time (and color) returns, enemies will periodically leap onto the stage and attack players, and the rubble "platforms" will fall as well.
 
IntelliHeath said:
I would like to see Laughing Dog aka Duck Hunt Dog being playable character but I seriously doubt that he would due to few reasons.
Click to expand...

indeed i don't believe he'd make it. would be amusing though. he'd have some crazy duck attack, and jump out of the bushes attack. and of course his famous snicker. and a plate throwing attack lol
 
EhoaVash said:
I couldn't sleep last night, body was hurting from working all day, so I woke up in the middle of the night and started watching random smash battles, trailers ( the new rosalina trailer looks godly on my tv via wii u's internet browser. Then I started listening to the brawl soundtrack, man I loved all the remixed music in that game, I hope sakurai brings back all the big name video game composers like Yoko shimomura, Uematsu, and maybe ..he can even bring in David wise q.q
Click to expand...

I just hope they can top this.
 
I was gone for about 10 days and didn't really get to see all the major discussion.

What did everyone think of Sakurai's 2014 resolution to have the game out and ready this year?

I'm betting we'll have it in the summer. I can feel it! Feel it like it's right in the back of my neck!

Also your avatar has me fearing that we will see a complete clone of Zelda and Shiek. At the same time it makes me feel a little hopeful about something really unique about them. Though who am I kidding/Ganondorf.
 
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