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UK lawmakers approve lifetime smoking ban for today's under-18s

Draugoth

Draugoth

Gold Member
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  • Rolling age ban means children today will never be able to buy tobacco
  • Law also tightens rules on vaping and nicotine products
  • Measure now awaits royal assent

Children in Britain who are 17 or younger, ‌and anyone born in the future, will never be able to legally buy cigarettes after lawmakers approved new stricter restrictions on smoking. The Tobacco and Vapes Bill raises the legal age for buying tobacco by one year, every year, starting with people born on or after January 1, 2009, meaning affected age groups face a lifetime ban. The law, which is due to receive ⁠royal assent next week, also tightens controls on vaping, including banning sales of vaping and nicotine products to under‑18s and restricting advertising, displays, free distribution and discounting.

The government says the measures will help reduce smoking and prevent young people from becoming addicted to nicotine, easing long-term pressure on the National Health Service.

Source
 
Draugoth said:
The government says the measures will help reduce smoking and prevent young people from becoming addicted to nicotine, easing long-term pressure on the National Health Service.
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This argument falls apart when you know how much cigarettes are taxed and the taxes pay into for the NHS. Fat
people cost the NHS more and pay less tax on the stuff that makes them fat.
 
When the US started relaxing laws on weed I thought for sure the next two countries that would follow would be Mexico (to export) and the UK. I've never been more wrong. Mexico remains where it always has been, and the UK seems somehow to be becoming more restrictive rather than less. This prohibition nonsense bamboozles me, unless you're actively trying to develop black markets.
 
I hate smoking but that should be for me to decide and not the government. All this does is create an opening for criminals to supply. Prohibition was a massive failure the war on drugs is a massive failure and this will be a massive failure.

Where there is demand someone will supply.
 
Woggleman said:
I hate smoking but that should be for me to decide and not the government. All this does is create an opening for criminals to supply. Prohibition was a massive failure the war on drugs is a massive failure and this will be a massive failure.

Where there is demand someone will supply.
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I'd support that sentiment more if it also included living with the consequences of poor decisions. Let people smoke/drink/do drugs but force them to purchase private insurance that keeps them siloed in their own risk pool and force full payment of any health issues directly related to their personal choice.


Jinzo Prime said:
The British Parliament has way too much power over the lives of UK citizens. A law like this would be unconstitutional here.
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Why do you think so? It's just a perpetual increase of the smoking age which is something the government already has the power to set.
 
Woggleman said:
I hate smoking but that should be for me to decide and not the government. All this does is create an opening for criminals to supply. Prohibition was a massive failure the war on drugs is a massive failure and this will be a massive failure.

Where there is demand someone will supply.
Click to expand...
Actually, prohibition and the war on drugs only proved that people get so addicted and have no control over themselves that they will buy trash that kills them from criminals.

People start when they are teens and when you are a teen, you only do what others do, decisions have never been in the picture.

Alchohol, smoke, weed, fast food etc... etc... have no fucking use, it's pointless trash that makes a man into a mouse and if kids would grow up without it they would be FAR better off.

We can't ban it for us because people would freak if they don't get their fix, but kids who never started to begin with? they would thank us as they grow up that we didn't put our trash on their plate.
 
kpopSuperstar said:
Actually, prohibition and the war on drugs only proved that people get so addicted and have no control over themselves that they will buy trash that kills them from criminals.

People start when they are teens and when you are a teen, you only do what others do, decisions have never been in the picture.

Alchohol, smoke, weed, fast food etc... etc... have no fucking use, it's pointless trash that makes a man into a mouse and if kids would grow up without it they would be FAR better off.

We can't ban it for us because people would freak if they don't get their fix, but kids who never started to begin with? they would thank us as they grow up that we didn't put our trash on their plate.
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Many countries are experimenting with the same idea. Raising the smoking age to just 21 results in a drastic reduction in future smokers. The end goal of such policy was always to push a permanent age increase once smoking dropped sufficiently enough to mitigate outrage from the public.
 
Woggleman said:
I hate smoking but that should be for me to decide and not the government. All this does is create an opening for criminals to supply. Prohibition was a massive failure the war on drugs is a massive failure and this will be a massive failure.

Where there is demand someone will supply.
Click to expand...

cigarettes are different from other drugs tho.
there's no real benefits to smoking. and I'm not talking health benefits or anything, I mean in terms of desirable effects while using it.

people drink alcohol to get drunk.
people smoke weed to get high.
people take hard drugs for their mind altering effects.

but why do people smoke cigarettes? it's mostly a behaviour based addiction. for some it's literally just a fashion statement. the slight effect it has on your mood or state of mind is almost nonexistent.
it's also less addictive as alcohol and harder drugs, mainly due to the lack of desirable effects
 
As a second hand smoker who grew up in a house of chain smokers and a country where i had to breathe the toxic waste of every stranger who doesn't give a shit about others, i approve this.
 
Some people say "why do you care if I smoke alone?" Well, it rarely works out that way since we share air. I'm fine with a ban. Vape I don't really care as much, as long as there is no nicotine floating around.
kevboard said:
cigarettes are different from other drugs tho.
there's no real benefits to smoking. and I'm not talking health benefits or anything, I mean in terms of desirable effects while using it.

people drink alcohol to get drunk.
people smoke weed to get high.
people take hard drugs for their mind altering effects.

but why do people smoke cigarettes? it's mostly a behaviour based addiction. for some it's literally just a fashion statement. the slight effect it has on your mood or state of mind is almost nonexistent.
it's also less addictive as alcohol and harder drugs, mainly due to the lack of desirable effects
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I find it extremely hard to believe that cigarettes are less addictive than alcohol. That's pretty much what nicotine is for. I know for a fact I would never quit cigarettes if I started, and everyone I know who has done them turns into a raging ass when they don't get their fix. Talk to an ex smoker and their desire for a drag never goes away either
 
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As much as I hate what the UK government is doing with their citizens I'd support this ban in my country. Cigarettes are pure evil, lost my Dad to lung cancer, chances are some day I may end up the same from being a passive smoker for years.
 
Morgan Freeman Good Luck GIF



kevboard said:
it's also less addictive as alcohol and harder drugs, mainly due to the lack of desirable effects
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Nope. Nicotine crosses the blood-brain barrier in six seconds, apparently. Tobacco smoking is now considered a gateway drug, opening the way for developing more addictions more easily later in life.
 
xrnzaaas said:
As much as I hate what the UK government is doing with their citizens I'd support this ban in my country. Cigarettes are pure evil, lost my Dad to lung cancer, chances are some day I may end up the same from being a passive smoker for years.
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Me too. If it wasn't for cigarettes, my father would still be alive.
So banning cigarettes is a step in the right direction and more countries should follow suit.
Tabaco companies are absolute evil.
 
Strange they draw the line here and not other products/situations.
This will only make smoking even more alluring for kids.
 
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kevboard said:
cigarettes are different from other drugs tho.
there's no real benefits to smoking. and I'm not talking health benefits or anything, I mean in terms of desirable effects while using it.

people drink alcohol to get drunk.
people smoke weed to get high.
people take hard drugs for their mind altering effects.

but why do people smoke cigarettes? it's mostly a behaviour based addiction. for some it's literally just a fashion statement. the slight effect it has on your mood or state of mind is almost nonexistent.
it's also less addictive as alcohol and harder drugs, mainly due to the lack of desirable effects
Click to expand...
As others have said, cigarettes are considered one of the most addictive drugs.

If you look into it, it is just about the most insane thing ever devised, super dangerous, super addictive, and has no benefits. It has killed more people than world wars and should have been removed from society ages ago.

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Jinzo Prime said:
The British Parliament has way too much power over the lives of UK citizens. A law like this would be unconstitutional here.
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It certainly won't. The US government is fully able to ban tobacco is they so choose, nothing in the constitution prevents it.

It certainly won't happen anytime soon, but not because of the constitution.
 
RJMacready73 said:
Oh noes the UK government is soo bad wanting to make literal cancer causing sticks of fucking stink illegal...
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The issue is obviously not simply the ban. The wisdom (or otherwise) of prohibition is worth discussing, of course, but people can also anticipate the absurdity of a 41 year old adult having to buy ciggies for his 40 year old friend. There's an inherent injustice to the law treating two essentially equivalent adults unequally, and letting this kind of two-tiredness sidle its way into our society likely sets us up for worse in future.

It's not like discriminating on age is inherently bad. Want to make the case that brains don't mature until mid-twenties and you need to be 25 before buying cigarettes? Fine, let's give it a go, as long as you have to be 25 irrespective of when you were born! That would at least make some coherent sense rather than being arbitrary.

Or let's look at the question from the inverse moral position: If smoking is so terrible that we need to get to the point of nobody doing it, why are those not immediately subject to the ban considered so expendable? What's so awful about the anticipated 41 year old that we let him damage himself, but not his 40 year old friend? Why does the government hate everyone old enough to buy cigarettes until they die? Is that also not a form of injustice?

The truth, I suspect, is that the government simply cannot go cold turkey on the tax revenue from all cigarette sales, so it has convinced itself (likely incorrectly given that non-smokers still get ill and die in ways that cost the health service money) that it can come off the revenue slowly, like an addict incrementally decreasing their fix. Whether this practical limitation is sufficient reason to further adopt an arbitrarily tiered legal system is a consideration I will leave to the reader.
 
I have never smoked (or drunk, for that matter) because I take good care of my body and while I'd rather my fellow people be healthier, I won't, for a second, believe the UK is doing this for the general well-being or the NHS. All that is bullshit.

Politicians ban stuff as a demonstration of power, so the average citizen gets used to follow orders and be malleable. That's the sole reason for this measure. If they wanted a healthier landscape and social services not be stressed, we all know what they should do first, and it has nothing to do with smoking.
 
This is copying something New Zealand did years ago. The decision to make it an age restriction that increases year over year is a concession to the reality that expecting current legal smokers to all be able to stop is incredibly unrealistic. Maintaining some tax revenue from it is just a happy side effect; the government loses tax revenue any time it bans a thing from sale, and Westminster loves banning things.

It's likely indicative of where most of the first world will end up going. Mini-marts already have a black market going because of cigarette pricing.
 
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Angry_Megalodon said:
I have never smoked (or drunk, for that matter) because I take good care of my body and while I'd rather my fellow people be healthier, I won't, for a second, believe the UK is doing this for the general well-being or the NHS. All that is bullshit.

Politicians ban stuff as a demonstration of power, so the average citizen gets used to follow orders and be malleable. That's the sole reason for this measure. If they wanted a healthier landscape and social services not be stressed, we all know what they should do first, and it has nothing to do with smoking.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't smoke (but I went into the drinking rabbit hole years ago...) but I'm against government tyranny like that.

Don't treat adults like children, if you want to get rid of cigarettes, just ban them COMPLETELY for everyone (like hard drugs) - and then see how popular that move would be...
 
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nush said:
This argument falls apart when you know how much cigarettes are taxed and the taxes pay into for the NHS. Fat
people cost the NHS more and pay less tax on the stuff that makes them fat.
Click to expand...
The taxes don't cover the damage that smoking does to society though.
Maybe they should tax fat people more, but
excessive food intake can be almost balanced out by regular exercise/activity and medicine, which isn't the case with smoking.

Woggleman said:
I hate smoking but that should be for me to decide and not the government. All this does is create an opening for criminals to supply. Prohibition was a massive failure the war on drugs is a massive failure and this will be a massive failure.

Where there is demand someone will supply.
Click to expand...

The prohibition era in the US was a failure for a number of reasons, but prohibition works, and massively reduces the risk of offence when enforced properly.
We are prohibited from doing thousands of things every day, and less people smoking is better for everyone.
This will increase demand for the black market initially, but we will see a steady decline in the number of smokers over the coming decades.
 
This wont get rid of cigarettes esoecially since it will be legal for some and other countries have I t fullly legal. All it will do is transfer the control of the market from legal business to criminals who dont follow normal rules

Banning any vice that has a high demand only increases crime. Smoking is awful but we as a society need to treat adults like adults and let them make their own choices
 
Some of the early replies in this thread are insane. I hope you guys dont have kids. How the fuck is it a bad thing to ban smoking for kids? It wont stop them obviously, but still good decision.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Some of the early replies in this thread are insane. I hope you guys dont have kids. How the fuck is it a bad thing to ban smoking for kids? It wont stop them obviously, but still good decision.
Click to expand...

1) it's a lifetime ban, not just for those under 18. If you're under 18 today, it'll never be legal for you.
2) It just empowers crime/black markets. When it's illegal, you get your alcohol/drugs/tobacco/whatever by feeding criminal organizations. There is a non-zero possibility this is actually a real calculation in the laws.
 
The Cockatrice said:
Some of the early replies in this thread are insane. I hope you guys dont have kids. How the fuck is it a bad thing to ban smoking for kids? It wont stop them obviously, but still good decision.
Click to expand...
BlackTron said:
1) it's a lifetime ban, not just for those under 18. If you're under 18 today, it'll never be legal for you.
2) It just empowers crime/black markets. When it's illegal, you get your alcohol/drugs/tobacco/whatever by feeding criminal organizations. There is a non-zero possibility this is actually a real calculation in the laws.
Click to expand...

As with everything that is happening in UK right now: It's all about control.
 
BlackTron said:
1) it's a lifetime ban, not just for those under 18. If you're under 18 today, it'll never be legal for you.
2) It just empowers crime/black markets. When it's illegal, you get your alcohol/drugs/tobacco/whatever by feeding criminal organizations. There is a non-zero possibility this is actually a real calculation in the laws.
Click to expand...

Aaaah, ok that makes more sense. Well, as a non-smoker and with parents obsessed with it, I'm ok with banning tobacco forever.
 
kpopSuperstar said:
Awesome, cigarettes is evil and should be banished. They need to do the same with alchohol.
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Making alcohol illegal for an entire country sounds crazy, and apparently some places have done it? Add another law to which Bond willingly breaks! What's next, banning processed food/sugar, chocolate, caffeine, and basically all types of fast food/candy? Maybe! Restaurants sure would be pissed, no more 2500 calorie dishes either! Not to mention they profit off the alcohol more than anything I think, and losing all the bars would certainly close tons of them.

I guess you could easily kill obesity if you banned every possible food source that creates it. And perhaps mandate gym/exercise for everyone (like serious effort, a couple hours a day, whether running or weights, etc).

But how far is too far, and would it be a good thing if there were laws in place that forced everyone to be healthy and live better? Maybe limit the hours you can use your phone and devices?
 
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How is this going to last a lifetime and be enforced, sounds nuts to me, they can easily buy the under the counter ones
 
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The Cockatrice said:
Some of the early replies in this thread are insane. I hope you guys dont have kids. How the fuck is it a bad thing to ban smoking for kids? It wont stop them obviously, but still good decision.
Click to expand...

It would be so easy to derail this topic to discuss other subjects (which I won't do or i'll get in trouble).
But just think about the possibilities of what we should ban to defend life and perhaps you'll understand why this ban is preposterous.
 
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Of course kids should not buy tobacco but adults should have that choice. I cant stand the smell and i did not grow up with it because my mom quit when she became pregnant with me and my father quit in support and they never went back.

That bein said that was their choice and not the governments.
 
Always feel conflicted about stuff like this.
On the one hand I don't like the government babysitting adults. On the other hand, between the strain it puts on the healthcare system and the effects of second hand smoking, it's not as simple as "my body my choice".

Something like this seems like a better approach than a straight up ban, though it's probably still going to fuel a black market.
 
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