Wildebeest
Member
Blue. Where is the guarantee that a "red button" society wouldn't then decide, after pushing the red button solved nothing, to make a new button game where you wouldn't be allowed to have a vote.
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Everyone on Earth has to press a button
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
near
Gold Member
I don't think choosing to press the red button makes someone bad, I agree with that. A good person could still press the red button for a variety of reasons. But, I don't agree that pressing blue the button is suicide, because the entire premise is that the blue button only works if enough people choose it. So it's not suicide by default, you'd contributing to the only outcome where everyone survives.
The red button guarantees you survive, but if most follow that pragmatic logic, the collective outcome is worse. Not sure how choosing that option can make someone smarter. In this hypothetical scenario, I'd choose to place faith in humanity to keep each other alive by pressing the blue button, despite knowing that a lot would not share that same view. It is a riskier option for a reason.
In a world where only those who pushed the red button survive, it would be a psychologically and morally different outcome, because everyone left would know that when the choice was between guaranteed self preservation and risking their survival for everyone, they chose themselves. I think society would be worse for it.
Shubh_C63
Member
India and China
Most majority of Indians elders will vote Blue, Teens will vote Red. I just started a poll on reddit on both of those communities lol
Jinzo Prime
Member
Are we being judged by the aliens right now? Like, you could send this question to every cell phone on Earth and get a very accurate poll of what most humans would vote, because 68-70% of people on Earth have a smartphone. Oh, God.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Basically this. I don't get why anyone would press the blue one. It's not my problem if people are unable to read and understand basic rules.
Robot Carnival
Gold Member
I need a lot of knifes
BlackTron
Member
Why did your planet resist our expansion? The Empire improves every system it touches. Judge by any metric. Safety, prosperity, trade, opportunity, peace.
It sort of makes sense if it is a question about voter engagement, I think, rather than nihilism? Some contingent might not press either button but presumably would still count towards the percentages -- I'd say "Neither" should be an option in the poll but of course those people wouldn't click that either so it wouldn't be very illuminating.
nkarafo
Member
I think you need to ask yourself one question first, before you choose which button to press:
- Which is going to be the outcome? What do you think most people will choose? In what color would you place your bets?
You have to carefully consider this question and draw a conclusion. I think its safe to say that, in this world, the most likely outcome will be the red button. That's why i said the blue button is suicide. Because if you ask that question you will end up on the red button. So even after that, why on earth would you even think of pressing the blue button other than willingly killing yourself?
Angry_Megalodon
Member
I understand it's made like that on purpose so people "go blue" despite being the worst option. The only one that guarantees your survival is red. Also, our brain reacts differently towards red, linked to danger or blood. It's kind of tricky if you don't read carefully.
It sort of makes sense if it is a question about voter engagement, I think, rather than nihilism? Some contingent might not press either button but presumably would still count towards the percentages -- I'd say "Neither" should be an option in the poll but of course those people wouldn't click that either so it wouldn't be very illuminating.
It's a proven fact that there are many suicidal wackos in the world, like hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Why would anyone put his life in their hands? It's sheer lunacy.
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Shubh_C63
Member
I thought of this as a test of faith in humanity.
Blue is risky but you have faith in mutual cooperation that everyone will do the right thing
Red is selfish with self preservation in mind. it won't harm anyone, everyone survives but you do not have faith that everyone can come to common ground for once.
calico
Member
I disagree with your assumed starting position and the conclusions you are arriving at based on it.
Even if we assume a red majority is the 'more likely' outcome, I don't think it's reasonable to consider voting blue 'suicide' (unless it was done while wanting blue to lose).
Trilobit
Absolutely Cozy
Because look at the results. The people pressing the blue one would have been dead because they don't have any grasp on reality.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
The original poll this was based on, with a much larger sample size is choosing blue last I saw.
Honestly the hypothetical needs a few more rules - like that this is an instant vote without a chance to discuss with other people. I think the longer there is for discussion and campaigns the more red would become the only sensible option.
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near
Gold Member
The questions I'm asking are things like: how am I going to live with the outcome if someone I love pressed the blue and died while I survived? What does that do to society? What does civilisation even look like afterwards, when the surviving population has been reduced to people who chose guaranteed self preservation?
I agree red is probably the safer bet. I'm not acting as if humanity is made up of superheroes that are eager to press the save all button. But 'most people will probably press red' is still a prediction, not a fact. You can't treat the result as already decided before anyone has even pressed anything.
That's why I don't really see this as a bet. If you reduce it to that, then sure, red is the obvious answer. But if the question is what kind of world is my choice creating, then you can't dismiss blue as a dumb suicide.
Blue is the only collective win option in this scenario. It becomes stupid if you assume it has already failed, and that assumption is exactly how you help make it fail. 38.6% of GAF tried to save you and themselves in this scenario, now we're dead because you had no faith in us.
calico
Member
Time for discussion and consensus building benefits blue imo. Team Red's 'sacrifice many children to guarantee your personal survival' message will be difficult to campaign on, if not outlawed entirely.
If we change the rules to exclude children, I still think campaigning time benefits blue, but it's more of a contest. Parents and grandparents of children are far more likely to vote red in the 'children excluded' variant than in the 'everyone takes part' version.
I think for the main scenario:
No foreknowledge or ability to discuss strategy with other people. Everyone chooses at the same time. Children also must choose. Babies are given the Lone Wolf and Cub treatment and can signal by crawling to a prop visually representing each respective choice, something appropriate for their development. Abstaining will result in the person's death.
We can discuss alternate scenarios too though like one where the choice happens one month after announcement.
No foreknowledge or ability to discuss strategy with other people. Everyone chooses at the same time. Children also must choose. Babies are given the Lone Wolf and Cub treatment and can signal by crawling to a prop visually representing each respective choice, something appropriate for their development. Abstaining will result in the person's death.
We can discuss alternate scenarios too though like one where the choice happens one month after announcement.
BloodFree
Member
It's not even a question of morality. Society literally just falls apart as I alluded in a previous post of mine. Take the current poll results and imagine if almost 40% of the population died tomorrow. Where does the food come from ? Most people just go to the supermarket to get it. What happens when the trucks stop rolling and the looting starts ? Where does the water come from ? What about other services. Who cares for people that are unable to care for themselves ?
It would be a complete catastrophe that might take decades to reverse if that was even possible to begin with. So you pick red, sure, you ensure your immediate survival and survive the first culling. Long term though your survival is questionable and you will likely die in horrible conditions, misery and suffering. Might as well pick blue, check out early if the worst comes to pass and hope that the red option doesn't win for everyone's sake.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I disagree. I can already imagine the ads in the US 'This is .... [Evil looking foreigner]. He raped and murdered 15 children. He will be voting red to murder you and your children on Mar 12th. Protect your family and your country by voting Red.'
But yeah I can see a big problem with trusting your 2 year old toddler to 'press the red button baby' or do parents essentially get extra votes for their kids or babies.
lmimmfn
Member
looks like a slightly different version of "The prisoners dilemma" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
Laptop1991
Member
Red, my favourite colour along with Black and my team plays in Red, although not that well this season
Wildebeest
Member
In a deontology system sense it at first seems to make no difference which button you press. You can press either button and if everyone chose the same option due to some universal law then everyone lives. But with no established rule you enter a problem of autonomy. As in, you can either die on your feet or live on your knees. The blue button people are the people who die on their feet, free from coercion by fear and tyranny.
calico
Member
I don't think it's a given society enters a catastrophic fail state following a sudden significant (but less than 50%) population decline.
Not exactly the same, which is why it is written that way around when it could just as easily be written the other way around.
Not exactly the same, which is why it is written that way around when it could just as easily be written the other way around.
Major Insano
Member
If red, in what manner do the blue die?
poodaddy
Member
This is why I choose blue, knowing that most will probably choose red. I know most people think only of themselves when they make decisions, and I understand the logic there in some capacity, but it's not how I live and it's not the world I wanna live in.
Blue. One hundred percent. I can live with the consequences....or in this case I guess I can't lol. Still, blue.
Pressing blue is creating a problem just to have an near-insignificant chance (~4.2bn blue presses are needed to achieve the goal, of which you would be one) of solving it - assuming there even is a problem, as you don't even know if anyone else pressed blue so you could be throwing your life away in the hope of being a saviour when there's actually nobody to save. Pressing red is a guarantee of survival and there is no suggestion of any impediment to you and others pressing it, or coercion against doing so, unless you count the original proposition phrasing the blue choice in a way to falsely suggest altruism.
Pressing blue only saves other people who pressed blue, so if nobody presses blue, everyone lives. Red is a vote of respect for your own life, and the belief that others are capable of understanding the choices they make. Blue represents the perspective that people are incapable of making good choices and need to be saved from themselves - which like a lot of that line of thinking, is a contradiction which reflects back on the thinker, who expects others to risk themselves to save him from his own choice.
Pressing blue only saves other people who pressed blue, so if nobody presses blue, everyone lives. Red is a vote of respect for your own life, and the belief that others are capable of understanding the choices they make. Blue represents the perspective that people are incapable of making good choices and need to be saved from themselves - which like a lot of that line of thinking, is a contradiction which reflects back on the thinker, who expects others to risk themselves to save him from his own choice.
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Wildebeest
Member
That's what people are reading into it, but nothing guarantees survival. Red is not an immortality button. It is a kill other people button.
poodaddy
Member
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Nobody is dying because one person pressed red. They are (almost certainly) dying because they chose not to.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Blue. I'll take the risk of death. Better than living with the guilt of choosing to wipe out a significant chunk of humanity and knowing I'm probably going to hell.
Grildon Tundy
Gold Member
There is a world-sized blender that will kill everyone who enters unless 50% or more of all people jump in and gunk up the blades meaning no one in the blender or outside of it dies. Do you choose to enter the blender?
Trogdor1123
Member
Easy, blue.
I'd 100% vote for everyone to live.
I'd 100% vote for everyone to live.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
Fuck everyone else.
You should've added a slight week ban for people on the blue if the vote results are less than 50% for them. Would've made things more interesting.
You should've added a slight week ban for people on the blue if the vote results are less than 50% for them. Would've made things more interesting.
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
People who distrust people think that most people distrust people.
Tams
Member
Tomorrow
Gold Member
ban the winning team if we're #teamviagra. whoever has the longest blue dick.#TeamViagra
You should ban the losing team for a week and gold for the other
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Wildebeest
Member
There is a vogon constructor fleet that will destroy earth and all its inhabitants unless 50% or more people fill the necessary paperwork to object to it. Alternatively they will not kill you if you don't register your objection, take a ride on their fleet, listen to their vogon poetry, and resettle on a new earth that is the same but a bit more shit in every way, but you don't know how much more shit. Do you fill out the forms?
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
That's like if everyone has voted red already and now you are asked to change your vote to blue - there is no point everyone already survived.