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The Odyssey (2026) Trailer

This is one of the most nonsensical posts I've seen. Olympic levels of mental gymnastics on display here.



It gets worse.

You think the people of the ancient Greek world would find Matt Damon's casting the most offensive part of this film? Crazy take.

Their theater tradition already involved heavy stylisation, masks, exaggerated performances etc. A 5th century Athenian watching a modern film would already find the entire medium bizarre. Matt Damon wouldn't even register with them.

Kinda sounds like this movies being made in a similar spirit then. Which was my initial point. 'Accuracy" was not a concern.

You said it so matter-of-factly as it was some kind of "gottcha" but it's such a nonsensical argument that I'm shocked that you even attempted it.

Embarrassing

Im responding to someone arguing that Nolan is being forced by modern Hollywood to make race based casting decisions to promote "leftism"

My rebuttal was two fold. 1, That race swapped casting is as old as Hollywood itself and has nothing g to do with "leftism" and 2, that the criteria for what would be "accurate" casting in a movie depicting the odyssey, is completely divorced from the concept if "respecting greek culture" because they weren't even factoring in modern conditions of race fod such categorization.

And it seems like you actually agree with me on that more or less.

Whats your issue with my post then?
 
Who said that I like Matt Damon cast? But you know what would be more offensive to them? Seeing Lupita as Helen of Troy, Rappers and transgender person (formerly a woman) as Achilles. You can ask modern day Greeks in this thread and listen to what they think about this...

Judaism is a religion, it's something you can choose (unlike your ethnicity). And those actors (you posted) are far closer to the real Jesus than Lupita is to the Helen of Troy.

Judaism is a religion. Jewishness is more than just religion.

And Jesus, as well as mlk, Obama, rosa parks and all the others mentioned here were all real life figures.

Helen of Troy was not. One story has her hatching from an egg and being a demigoddess of sorts. Similarly to Jesus the mythical elements of the story are subject to plenty of artistic license. This has been taken advantage of plenty of times in media. Narnia comes to mind, where he's a lion.

Thats much closer to me an idea of what Nolan is doing than anything specifying race. And Helen of Troy like many Greek figures has been no less a subject of adaptation. This isnt even a new thing for the Greek pantheon.

These are all different modernized adaptions/ depictions of hades:
dAK1CQeiOMzOuWGo.jpg


I never saw any outrage for any of these. And the same goes for most of the Greek pantheon.
 
Judaism is a religion. Jewishness is more than just religion.

And Jesus, as well as mlk, Obama, rosa parks and all the others mentioned here were all real life figures.

Helen of Troy was not. One story has her hatching from an egg and being a demigoddess of sorts. Similarly to Jesus the mythical elements of the story are subject to plenty of artistic license. This has been taken advantage of plenty of times in media. Narnia comes to mind, where he's a lion.

Thats much closer to me an idea of what Nolan is doing than anything specifying race. And Helen of Troy like many Greek figures has been no less a subject of adaptation. This isnt even a new thing for the Greek pantheon.

These are all different modernized adaptions/ depictions of hades:
dAK1CQeiOMzOuWGo.jpg


I never saw any outrage for any of these. And the same goes for most of the Greek pantheon.

Anime/games/comics/whatever examples?

Hades (by Greeks):

main-qimg-2cc922d2f32422707a937cf7fc713a2f-lq
main-qimg-1ad59cec7c284389337da5402eb4a92f-lq


There are different groups of people that are Jews, including black people from Africa.
 
Judaism is a religion. Jewishness is more than just religion.

And Jesus, as well as mlk, Obama, rosa parks and all the others mentioned here were all real life figures.

Helen of Troy was not. One story has her hatching from an egg and being a demigoddess of sorts. Similarly to Jesus the mythical elements of the story are subject to plenty of artistic license. This has been taken advantage of plenty of times in media. Narnia comes to mind, where he's a lion.

Thats much closer to me an idea of what Nolan is doing than anything specifying race. And Helen of Troy like many Greek figures has been no less a subject of adaptation. This isnt even a new thing for the Greek pantheon.

These are all different modernized adaptions/ depictions of hades:
dAK1CQeiOMzOuWGo.jpg


I never saw any outrage for any of these. And the same goes for most of the Greek pantheon.
Ah yes I know this one:

What is a cartoon and how does it differ from a real life actor or actress present on film with their real life face and heritage including skin tone much more clearly present?
SyuUvz89h6J5g5Xu.jpg
 
These are all different modernized adaptions/ depictions of hades:
dAK1CQeiOMzOuWGo.jpg


I never saw any outrage for any of these. And the same goes for most of the Greek pantheon.
You wouldn't. Tentpole films have a much wider reach and appeal, so creative choices get more attention. Some character design in a game or anime isn't going to generate the same level of awareness as a major Hollywood film adapting famous works.
 
You don't correct wrong with more wrong.

History decides what's right and wrong in Hollywood. Not any of us alone.

Many things now considered wrong were once considered right. Many things now considered right were once considered wrong.

I think good art can be made in the midst of a nebulous process like that. I dont think anyone would say breakfast at Tiffany's is terrible because of the yellow face. Its a factor of the era from which it derives same as any work of art ultimately ends up being.

But back then movies got judged on their quality first and foremost. The superficial analysis came later. Nowadays every movie gets categorized as a missile in the cannon of either right wing or left wing, and is judged on that, not its merit. And frankly I'm not compelled by the notion that Christopher Nolan of all people is some agent of the woke left trying to subverting the west by casting a black person. Call me crazy.
 
Ah yes I know this one:

What is a cartoon and how does it differ from a real life actor or actress present on film with their real life face and heritage including skin tone much more clearly present?
SyuUvz89h6J5g5Xu.jpg

Im not sure i follow. Are you saying that its because its life action that it's offensive? If it was animated it would be no big deal?

You wouldn't. Tentpole films have a much wider reach and appeal, so creative choices get more attention. Some character design in a game or anime isn't going to generate the same level of awareness as a major Hollywood film adapting famous works.

I mean one of those is a pretty universally popular Disney movie that has hades speak with a new York accent. That movie ALSO depicts the greek muses as black rnb singers.

2D6SCOgXvp4FTztG.jpg


One of ems even fat.

Something tells me if that released today the topic would get a lot of responses here of a similar vein.

Which begs the question. Was it not considered disrespecting Greek culture to do such a thing 30 years ago?
 
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Nowadays every movie gets categorized as a missile in the cannon

And why might that be I wonder?




Might be something to do with this quest to judge and value each and every person by their immutable traits.

You can't create an action and not expect a reaction.
 
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Im responding to someone arguing that Nolan is being forced by modern Hollywood to make race based casting decisions to promote "leftism"

I don't think Nolan is not being forced by anyone. If this were the case then Robert Eggers wouldn't have been able to make the Northman.

My rebuttal was two fold. 1, That race swapped casting is as old as Hollywood itself and has nothing g to do with "leftism"

And it has always been wrong. However, the same people who say it was "racist" to cast John Wayne as Genghis Khan are the same people who clap and celebrate when a white character is race swapped. I think that is what is annoying people. The double standard to race swapping.
And it seems like you actually agree with me on that more or less.

I don't think we agree at all.

Whats your issue with my post then?

That you said the ancient Greeks would be most offended by Matt Damon. Such a nonsensical argument based on feelings alone.
 

I don't think Nolan is not being forced by anyone. If this were the case then Robert Eggers wouldn't have been able to make the Northman.



And it has always been wrong. However, the same people who say it was "racist" to cast John Wayne as Genghis Khan are the same people who clap and celebrate when a white character is race swapped. I think that is what is annoying people. The double standard to race swapping.

Are they? Did that cleopatra movie do big numbers?

Most people don't give a rats ass either way. They'll watch John Wayne play a mongol and watch a white guy play the deep in the boys(which by the way, is in fact a race swap of a black character to a white one in modern day. Lotta ppl dont know that.)

Its the push to argue this is all part of some grand conspiracy that I can't get behind. We still get a bunch of majority white movies, we still get entirely all white movies. The choice to race swap characters largely seems to go with little fanfare with the wider audience unless Elon tweets about it.

I don't think we agree at all.
That you said the ancient Greeks would be most offended by Matt Damon. Such a nonsensical argument based on feelings alone.

My argument was from the basis that they'd consider him a foreigner, not a Greek. Its kinda like how some Japanese dont appreciate a Chinese person being cast on such a role while many Americans wouldn't even notice.
 
One of ems even fat.

Something tells me if that released today the topic would get a lot of responses here of a similar vein.
If it released today the five of them would be fat and at least one would be bald.

Just my opinion but I belive it's not about the content, but the intentions behind the content. And looking at the Oscar's criteria to allow a movie or not to participate, I can see clear as day what's the intention behind those more than questionable casting choices. Nolan might be more concerned with winning awards than making an actual good movie? Don't know, but don't count on me to go and watch this one.
 
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Im not sure i follow. Are you saying that its because its life action that it's offensive? If it was animated it would be no big deal?


I mean one of those is a pretty universally popular Disney movie that has hades speak with a new York accent. That movie ALSO depicts the greek muses as black rnb singers.


One of ems even fat.

Something tells me if that released today the topic would get a lot of responses here of a similar vein.

Which begs the question. Was it not considered disrespecting Greek culture to do such a thing 30 years ago?

This movie IS NOT the OFFICIAL ADAPTATION OF A CANONICAL WORK.

Is it really that hard to understand?

And, for the record, I personally think Disney's Hercules is grossly westernized and I dont like it at all, despite being cartoons. And I say the same about the recent Hercules and Wrath of the Titans live action movies. To me, they are all badly westernized and extremely mediocre.

However, none of them descends to the lows of Nolan's movie.
 
Most people don't give a rats ass either way. They'll watch John Wayne play a mongol and watch a white guy play the deep in the boys(which by the way, is in fact a race swap of a black character to a white one in modern day. Lotta ppl dont know that.)
Wait, this is for real? The Deep is a race swap? OK, this one makes sense. No one is believing a black guy can swim that good. :messenger_beaming:
 
Lol @ the snowflake people 🤣

When Coppola made Dracula ('92) with Gary Oldman and Winona, i was so damn proud as a romanian, that such amazing actors play these roles (Vlad Tepes and his wife). Didn't give a fuck that Coppola didn't use "transilvanian" actors, or "romanian" looking actors. Not a single fuck. Still rewatch the movie every few years, a masterpiece.

Odyssey will probably be the movie of the decade, even if review bombed to hell by retards.

Bro Coppola didn't cast Wesley Snipes to play Dracula.
 
And Jesus, as well as mlk, Obama, rosa parks and all the others mentioned here were all real life figures.

Helen of Troy was not. One story has her hatching from an egg and being a demigoddess of sorts. Similarly to Jesus the mythical elements of the story are subject to plenty of artistic license. This has been taken advantage of plenty of times in media. Narnia comes to mind, where he's a lion.
That's probably not true. Helen of Troy in the Iliad was very likely based on a real person and sequence of events. Was this woman changed into an epitome of Hellenistic beauty and became blonde later? Perhaps. But it is a description of her that has persisted for thousands of years.

And if Narnia had a film where Aslan was now a skunk....yeah that's showing a malicious intent towards the source.

Thats much closer to me an idea of what Nolan is doing than anything specifying race. And Helen of Troy like many Greek figures has been no less a subject of adaptation. This isnt even a new thing for the Greek pantheon.
Greek gods are clearly a more nebulous concept. How should they be depicted by humans, when so often they, and other gods, are described in almost incomprehensible ways? Should gods reflect the people who worship them? Should Norse gods look like the norse people? They are certainly depicted that way in the sagas. Greek gods as well. Any that do NOT look like the people are specifically called out, if they have black skin for example, just like if they were missing an eye, or a hand, or anything that deviates from the vast majority.
 
Wait, this is for real? The Deep is a race swap? OK, this one makes sense. No one is believing a black guy can swim that good. :messenger_beaming:
THey also made The Deep the assaulter of Starlight in the first ep, instead of A-train (white in the comics), Homelander, and Black Noir (white in the comics).

So they race swapped some characters but made sure it's still the white guys who want to do the raping.

VXrE4cq05MPJBTmH.jpg
 
Are they? Did that cleopatra movie do big numbers?

What Cleopatra movie?

Most people don't give a rats ass either way.

Actress Odessa A'zion had to drop out of the A24 film adaptation of the novel Deep Cuts. Why? Because of the backlash over her race. People were unhappy she was being cast as a character who is Mexican/Jewish.

People care and it costs people roles. However, it's celebrated when a non-white person plays the role of a historically white character.

That is the double standard people are annoyed about.

They'll watch John Wayne play a mongol and watch a white guy play the deep in the boys(which by the way, is in fact a race swap of a black character to a white one in modern day. Lotta ppl dont know that.)

Wow. I wonder nobody cared about that swap 🤔

Its the push to argue this is all part of some grand conspiracy that I can't get behind.

It's not a conspiracy. It's just now acceptable to race swap white characters, even if they're historical. We see it all the time.

We still get a bunch of majority white movies, we still get entirely all white movies. The choice to race swap characters largely seems to go with little fanfare with the wider audience unless Elon tweets about it.

Yes. Like The Northman. However, the argument is for the double standard of race swapping. Do it one way, it's wrong. Do it the other way, it's praised.

My argument was from the basis that they'd consider him a foreigner, not a Greek.

As with every member of the cast, but since we can go back in time and find out, it's a nonsensical argument.
 
Wait, this is for real? The Deep is a race swap? OK, this one makes sense. No one is believing a black guy can swim that good. :messenger_beaming:

They only did that because he is an asshole, loser and likes to SA people.

There is another side of "woke" rules: don't make black characters do anything bad, leave that to white characters (almost all evil villains are white). Even fucking black-supremacist Killmonger from BP was portrayed as misunderstood "good" character...
 
Going to thank this thread for inspiring me to go and rewatch Ulysses 31 again.



I could have gotten behind an interpretation like this, though I think I'd still draw the line at the use of "Daddy".
 
THey also made The Deep the assaulter of Starlight in the first ep, instead of A-train (white in the comics), Homelander, and Black Noir (white in the comics).

So they race swapped some characters but made sure it's still the white guys who want to do the raping.

VXrE4cq05MPJBTmH.jpg
That is crazy, but not surprising at all.
 
That's probably not true. Helen of Troy in the Iliad was very likely based on a real person and sequence of events. Was this woman changed into an epitome of Hellenistic beauty and became blonde later? Perhaps. But it is a description of her that has persisted for thousands of years.
Yes.

We can see the same things play out in the post-Herodotus history period where sources start to delineate fact from epic embellishment. Alexander propagated the story that he was directly descended from the gods and similar events to what you see in Homer, tied to his also very epic real life accomplishments that we would brush off as fantasy if we didn't happen to have strong evidence to substantiate it.

The Trojan war was thought to be fantasy until very recently. Now we know it happened.

Trying to discredit every story told in Greek mythology because "lol Helen's father is a swan, it's not real," really misses the point.
 
Hah hah, the internet AI read this conversation and fed me this article



In a royal cemetery at Mycenae, the ancient stronghold of King Agamemnon, archaeologists in the 1950s uncovered a burial that puzzled them for decades. Beside a male skeleton lay a woman's remains, accompanied by a gold-electrum mask and three swords. The assumption was straightforward: she was his wife, and the weapons belonged to him.

DyhIv47IAhsJITzc.jpg


The face is only part of what this project uncovered. DNA testing rewrote the relationship between the two people in the grave. They were not husband and wife. They were brother and sister.

HE5qBRI2BkIqLWu2.gif
 
If it released today the five of them would be fat and at least one would be bald.

Thats not what Nolan did.

The point is pretty clear.

Just my opinion but I belive it's not about the content, but the intentions behind the content. And looking at the Oscar's criteria to allow a movie or not to participate, I can see clear as day what's the intention behind those more than questionable casting choices. Nolan might be more concerned with winning awards than making an actual good movie? Don't know, but don't count on me to go and watch this one.

Except its been explained by others here and every else that anyone who says this has not read or doesn't understand what the criteria for awards is. This movie would not have been barred from awards if he'd cast a white woman as Athena, and he did not have to cast a black woman as Athena to qualify for awards.

The only intentions here, are nolans. He has said that and his film repertoire shows it.
 
What Cleopatra movie?



Actress Odessa A'zion had to drop out of the A24 film adaptation of the novel Deep Cuts. Why? Because of the backlash over her race. People were unhappy she was being cast as a character who is Mexican/Jewish.

People care and it costs people roles. However, it's celebrated when a non-white person plays the role of a historically white character.

She didn't "have" to drop out of anything. She chose to, because she didn't want to play a race swapped role. That was her CHOICE. Ed skrein did the sake thing for hellboy 2019, when he was a white man cast to play a Japanese character from the comics.

Again, this happens in both directions even in recent years.

That is the double standard people are annoyed about.



Wow. I wonder nobody cared about that swap 🤔

Nobody cares about most of them. If you knew how many swaps were in media no one knows about youd be surprised. No one cared when Tom hardy a British white guy played a Mexican American man bane in dark knight rises. I think he did a great job.

It's not a conspiracy. It's just now acceptable to race swap white characters, even if they're historical. We see it all the time.

Its acceptability depends on a variety of factors. Again, this isnt some recent thing in Hollywood. It just used to more overtly happen in one direction and now happens in more directions. Was/is there a period of overcorrection? Perhaps. But that's how things go.

If you're a hard liner for race swaps I can't convince you not to be. But if you are seeing nolans casting and coming away with the idea he's serving a cabal of leftists who hate white people I can't take you seriously. For what its worth I do not think you're among those that feel this way.

Yes. Like The Northman. However, the argument is for the double standard of race swapping. Do it one way, it's wrong. Do it the other way, it's praised.

You still have yet to show an example of someone or a role being "praised" for playing a white role. Most of the time it's met with a shrug but the general audience, who either doesn't know better or doesn't care enough for it to affect the movie they want to watch.

As with every member of the cast, but since we can go back in time and find out, it's a nonsensical argument.

The argument is that we shouldn't have to.
 
Wait, this is for real? The Deep is a race swap? OK, this one makes sense. No one is believing a black guy can swim that good. :messenger_beaming:

Yep.
eB873j6g2Yvxfsma.jpg


Atrain is also race swapped, hes white in the comics.

No one cared either way from what I've seen.

They only did that because he is an asshole, loser and likes to SA people.

There is another side of "woke" rules: don't make black characters do anything bad, leave that to white characters (almost all evil villains are white). Even fucking black-supremacist Killmonger from BP was portrayed as misunderstood "good" character...

Thats completely untrue lmfao.

A train, who performs the very first kill in the show, was race swapped from white to black.

The villain of guardians of the galaxy 3, the high evolutionary, was race swapped to a black guy, and is irredeemably evil in the movie.

The villain of the marvels, race swapped AND gender swapped to a black woman. Unambiguously evil.

I could go on.

And if you think the movie argued killmonger was good, you simply didn't pay attention.
 
If you're a hard liner for race swaps I can't convince you not to be. But if you are seeing nolans casting and coming away with the idea he's serving a cabal of leftists who hate white people I can't take you seriously. For what its worth I do not think you're among those that feel this way.
Hmm that sounds like a bit of a strawman argument aimed at ignoring reality.

What do you call this, and how do you not see how that impacts a movie like this?


What do you think happens if Conan O' Brien was cast as the leader of Wakanda? Be serious now.
 
She didn't "have" to drop out of anything. She chose to, because she didn't want to play a race swapped role. That was her CHOICE. Ed skrein did the sake thing for hellboy 2019, when he was a white man cast to play a Japanese character from the comics.
Come now, she auditioned for the role all the way through, you think she only found out the character was a gay mexican jew at the end? She left after getting heat for not being 100% identical to the (fictional) source material. Same with Skrein, he knew the (also fictional) character and accepted the role, it's the backlash that forced him out (though the blame should be on the producers for casting a white guy to play an asian character instead of just making a new character).

All this is no different than the Odyssey casting brouhaha. Either honor the source, or change but be aware it can come with controversy if the change isn't well managed. In most cases no one really cares because the changes are not critical to the character or the casting is just THAT GOOD, but you never know and alienating your desired audience is never a wise move when you could appease them instead. Pandering to the internet harpies though, that's a dead end because they DO NOT support anything, they only destroy and then move to the next carcass.
 
And if you think the movie argued killmonger was good, you simply didn't pay attention.
Ohhhh, Killmonger was DEFINIITELY played as sympathetic. It's why he was such a good antagonist in the film, he was RIGHT. He called out all the Wakandan bullshit, beat them at their own primitive, regressive, and savage rules until they cheated to get around him, and threw their extreme xenophobia into their faces.

He was a racist piece of shit, no question, but he was also right....and still a terrorist.
 
Yep.
eB873j6g2Yvxfsma.jpg


Atrain is also race swapped, hes white in the comics.

No one cared either way from what I've seen.



Thats completely untrue lmfao.

A train, who performs the very first kill in the show, was race swapped from white to black.

The villain of guardians of the galaxy 3, the high evolutionary, was race swapped to a black guy, and is irredeemably evil in the movie.

The villain of the marvels, race swapped AND gender swapped to a black woman. Unambiguously evil.

I could go on.

And if you think the movie argued killmonger was good, you simply didn't pay attention.
To be fair, these examples of race swaps are not controversial simply because no one gives a fuck about these roles or no one knows it happened.

If these roles were bigger, there probably would be backlash.
 
Who said that I like Matt Damon cast? But you know what would be more offensive to them? Seeing Lupita as Helen of Troy, Rappers and transgender person (formerly a woman) as Achilles. You can ask modern day Greeks in this thread and listen to what they think about this...

Judaism is a religion, it's something you can choose (unlike your ethnicity). And those actors (you posted) are far closer to the real Jesus than Lupita is to the Helen of Troy.

The Jews of antiquity were not remotely similar, skin tone-wise, to the Israeli Jews of today. Most Israeli Jews are of European descent. The Jews of Jesus' time, including Jesus himself, were more brown-skinned/honey/olive complexion than what Israeli Jews today look like (see Israeli men pic)
 
The Jews of antiquity were not remotely similar, skin tone-wise, to the Israeli Jews of today. Most Israeli Jews are of European descent. The Jews of Jesus' time, including Jesus himself, were more brown-skinned/honey/olive complexion than what Israeli Jews today look like (see Israeli men pic)
We are blessed that contemporary depictions of jews from those times still exists, and they are notable for their fair skin, light hair, and light eyes. In start contrast to other peoples in the area.

nFOkZk4IdMU35UEs.jpg

FW3rfPIOoeha048E.jpg



Now obvioulsy I've not vetted all these claims but genetic analysis is certainly upheaving a lot of the "conventional wisdom" of populations and we are ALWAYS finding stuff that rewrites the story we tell ourselves.

Anyway, I think the notion that Jesus COULD be a tan guy with light brown hair and light eyes isn't totally impossible. Though an olive complexion, brown eyes, and brown hair seems more likely and few, I think, would object to jesus being shown in such a manner. But most folks seem to show jesus just looking like the population of that church. What do the koreans do? Is there an asian-looking jesus?
 
They only did that because he is an asshole, loser and likes to SA people.

There is another side of "woke" rules: don't make black characters do anything bad, leave that to white characters (almost all evil villains are white). Even fucking black-supremacist Killmonger from BP was portrayed as misunderstood "good" character...

No one thinks Killmonger is a "good guy". They just agreed that Wakanda should have opened up and fought injustices in neighboring African countries.
 
She didn't "have" to drop out of anything. She chose to, because she didn't want to play a race swapped role. That was her CHOICE.

You should get into politics. You make it sound like she just decided to drop the role when she found out the race of the character, yet.......in reality she dropped and offered an apology only because of the backlash. She would still be in the role if there wasn't any backlash.

Actress Odessa A'zion has pulled out of A24's latest film, Deep Cuts, after online backlash over her casting.

Fans of the novel were unhappy Marty Supreme star A'zion was due to play supporting character Zoe Gutierrez, described in the book as having Mexican and Jewish heritage.



Ed skrein did the sake thing for hellboy 2019, when he was a white man cast to play a Japanese character from the comics.

Again, dropped out only because of the online backlash from the online mob.



Again, this happens in both directions even in recent years.

You sure about that?


Nobody cares about most of them. If you knew how many swaps were in media no one knows about youd be surprised. No one cared when Tom hardy a British white guy played a Mexican American man bane in dark knight rises. I think he did a great job.

Bame was born to an English mercenary father and a mother from a fictional south American country if I'm not mistaken. Not a very good example.

It just used to more overtly happen in one direction and now happens in more directions. Was/is there a period of overcorrection? Perhaps. But that's how things go.

Ah, so now we're admitting (just) that there is an overcorrection. At least you're confirming it's happening. That's a start.

If you're a hard liner for race swaps I can't convince you not to be.

I want consistency rather than - as you put it - an overcorrection. Especially with historical figures. We can have a race swapped Queen Charlotte of England, but we both know that it wouldn't work the other way today.

If it was wrong in the past then it's wrong now.

But if you are seeing nolans casting and coming away with the idea he's serving a cabal of leftists who hate white people I can't take you seriously. For what its worth I do not think you're among those that feel this way.

Correct. I don't believe Nolan has been taken over by the leftist Hollywood elite. I don't think he was forced to make these decisions.

You still have yet to show an example of someone or a role being "praised" for playing a white role.

Sure. How about Jodie Turner-Smith playing the historically white Anne Boleyn. Critics praised the brave casting choice and performance.

Here is the major difference. There was criticism online, but it was hand waved away as racism. There was no apology from Miss Turner Smith and she didn't drop the role.

Let's now compre to the examples above, who were only fictional characters as well.

That's the double standard.

Most of the time it's met with a shrug but the general audience, who either doesn't know better or doesn't care enough for it to affect the movie they want to watch.

Historical accuracy is important, but that's a different topic.
 
Ignoring the eye rolling casting in this...just watching the trailer, it's the kind of movie that I just don't care to see. It screams self autofellatio to me. Nolan made some movies that were good, but the more ego grew, the less enjoyable his movies became for me. It's like "oh god yes, this is cinema, yes, i'm an artist, no one can stop me, this is an epic that won't be topped" is all I see while the trailer is going. It's so eye rolling. I felt the same way while watching Oppenheimer to be honest. When I saw that movie in theaters, there was a power outage about 2/3s the way through...and I left, and I wasn't even mad. I was done watching the movie at that point.
 
Yep.
eB873j6g2Yvxfsma.jpg


Atrain is also race swapped, hes white in the comics.

No one cared either way from what I've seen.



Thats completely untrue lmfao.

A train, who performs the very first kill in the show, was race swapped from white to black.

The villain of guardians of the galaxy 3, the high evolutionary, was race swapped to a black guy, and is irredeemably evil in the movie.

The villain of the marvels, race swapped AND gender swapped to a black woman. Unambiguously evil.

I could go on.

And if you think the movie argued killmonger was good, you simply didn't pay attention.

A Train was literally changed into the good character between S1 and S5 (starting in S2), and his first kill was done by a mistake (not like psycho homelander). The Deep in the meantime gets worse and worse...

And of course there are examples or pure evil black characters, but current trope is that black characters are usually paragons of virtue vs. evil white people. I'm pretty sure you will never admit that such a thing even exist so whatever.

The Jews of antiquity were not remotely similar, skin tone-wise, to the Israeli Jews of today. Most Israeli Jews are of European descent. The Jews of Jesus' time, including Jesus himself, were more brown-skinned/honey/olive complexion than what Israeli Jews today look like (see Israeli men pic)

You are confusing current race mixture of Judea region vs. how it was 2000 years ago. There are Jews that look like Arabs because they mixed with the Arabs over 1000+ years (and they had to be docile under Arab rule). Levant looked different than modern Palestine before Arab conquest - whole North Africa and Eastern Roman Empire regions were more Mediterranean than Arabic when it comes to genetics (many of those places were founded by Greece or Roman Empire).
 
Bloody hell.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, and as others and myself have said plenty of times elsewhere, race-swapping usually seems to go in one direction these days. More often than not, it is established white characters being recast as black characters.

Maybe there is some historical irony there, given how often Asian characters were whitewashed in older films. But that does not make this DEI bullshit fine - two wrongs do not make a right. It just creates a different version of the same problem. What makes it more aggravating now is that criticism of it is often dismissed immediately as racism or bigotry, which always happens in these threads across the Gaming and OT boards.

The double standard is what gets me. If Black Panther and the Wakandans were suddenly recast as white actors, nobody would seriously accept "it's just fantasy, bro" as an excuse. People would rightly call it out because Wakanda has a specific cultural identity and place within that fictional world.

As others have pointed out, fantasy does not mean internal consistency suddenly stops mattering. The setting, history, culture, and visual identity of a world are part of what makes it believable. When those things are treated as disposable, especially to game the goddamn Academy, it can break immersion.

Yes, The Odyssey might still end up being a damn fine movie, but it would probably be a stronger one if it respected that logic.

And the ironic thing is, I would absolutely go to war if they whitewashed Black Panther or Wakanda, and I am sure others here would too. Toons Toons & DeafTourette DeafTourette , unless you don't care either way, we would be in the thick of it decrying and condemning this shit beside you.

But when established white characters are changed, the response is often "who cares snowflake, it's fantasy,' or "it's art" and anyone who objects gets accused of racism.

That double standard is the issue. People are tired of being told their concerns are automatically hateful when the same concerns would be treated as valid in the opposite direction. Like with Star Wars and Trek though, I am getting to the point where I am almost beyond caring.
 
The double standard is what gets me. If Black Panther and the Wakandans were suddenly recast as white actors, nobody would seriously accept "it's just fantasy, bro" as an excuse. People would rightly call it out because Wakanda has a specific cultural identity and place within that fictional world.

As others have pointed out, fantasy does not mean internal consistency suddenly stops mattering. The setting, history, culture, and visual identity of a world are part of what makes it believable.

You've hit the nail on the head with this post.

When I talk about a double standard, I'm speaking about historical characters. However, as you've pointed out, it also relates to fantasy as well.

Here is a recent example.

Tolkien's Middle-Earth stories are set in a fictional fantasy world, but it's a world based on Northern European history, culture and mythology. This is why the characters are white. Not because Tolkien was a white supremacist, but because that was what his mythology was based on.

However, now Tolkien is problematic. Having all white people in Middle-Earth is "racist" and corrections have been made in Rings of Power and also in the Magic The Gathering cards that race swap characters like Aragorn.

The argument is "it's fantasy" and therefore should have a diverse cast, but on the other side.........

Next year we'll see the adaptation of the fantasy book series Children of Blood and Bone. It's a West African-inspired young adult fantasy novel set in a fictional African world.

Does this adaptation also have a diverse cast of different races? No. It's an all black cast that correctly reflects the source material. It's fantasy, but having the main characters as white or Asian wouldn't make any sense in this context. Yet, nobody is calling for it to be a diverse cast because it's fantasy.

Actually, the casting for the film has had online backlash due to Amandla Stenberg being cast as the character Princess Amari. Why? Well because Amandla Stenberg apparently isn't the right shade of black. That's right. Because she's mixed race, there is backlash over her casting.


Double standards exist in fantasy and historical settings.
 
They only did that because he is an asshole, loser and likes to SA people.

There is another side of "woke" rules: don't make black characters do anything bad, leave that to white characters (almost all evil villains are white). Even fucking black-supremacist Killmonger from BP was portrayed as misunderstood "good" character...
That was fucking hilarious to watch, dude was basically a blacklivesmatter activist with muscles and weapons but somehow he was the "hero" of that turd movie...
 
I'm reading Dune by Frank Herbert currently. I'm pretty Villeneuve race / sex swapped at least two characters in his first movie. One of those characters was also made into a different person entirely with a different character arc. It was disappointing to see.

The academy awards with their influences are like the Bene Gesserit witches manipulating the culture around them.

I fucking love the book though. It is so intricate and just wonderful in design.
 
Wait... Are you comparing Lupita to a skunk?
No, I'm comparing Aslan as a lion to Aslan being a skunk. By the rationale of some here, in this fictional world you can just hot swap actors in and out with no thought towards external features so long as a few basic characteristics are maintained.

lions and skunks are both mammals....check
lions and skinks both have fur.....check
lions and skunks are both predators.....check

see, they are basically IDENTICAL! right?

but no one in their right f'n mind thinks a skunk would be anywhere near as noble and powerful a symbol as a lion for Aslan.

If I used a leopard, a panther, a wolf, badger, mongoose, fox........someone here would try to sell the idea. But a skunk (or a squirrel, a rat, etc) drives the point home that not all substitutions are equally valid.
 
Bloody hell.

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, and as others and myself have said plenty of times elsewhere, race-swapping usually seems to go in one direction these days. More often than not, it is established white characters being recast as black characters.

Maybe there is some historical irony there, given how often Asian characters were whitewashed in older films. But that does not make this DEI bullshit fine - two wrongs do not make a right. It just creates a different version of the same problem. What makes it more aggravating now is that criticism of it is often dismissed immediately as racism or bigotry, which always happens in these threads across the Gaming and OT boards.

The double standard is what gets me. If Black Panther and the Wakandans were suddenly recast as white actors, nobody would seriously accept "it's just fantasy, bro" as an excuse. People would rightly call it out because Wakanda has a specific cultural identity and place within that fictional world.

As others have pointed out, fantasy does not mean internal consistency suddenly stops mattering. The setting, history, culture, and visual identity of a world are part of what makes it believable. When those things are treated as disposable, especially to game the goddamn Academy, it can break immersion.

Yes, The Odyssey might still end up being a damn fine movie, but it would probably be a stronger one if it respected that logic.

And the ironic thing is, I would absolutely go to war if they whitewashed Black Panther or Wakanda, and I am sure others here would too. Toons Toons & DeafTourette DeafTourette , unless you don't care either way, we would be in the thick of it decrying and condemning this shit beside you.

But when established white characters are changed, the response is often "who cares snowflake, it's fantasy,' or "it's art" and anyone who objects gets accused of racism.

That double standard is the issue. People are tired of being told their concerns are automatically hateful when the same concerns would be treated as valid in the opposite direction. Like with Star Wars and Trek though, I am getting to the point where I am almost beyond caring.

I'd definitely stand with you.

One thing tho... I don't think Lupita is playing Helen ... I'm probably wrong but I don't think she is. Nolan seems to be keeping that casting close to the vest. In my mind, I'd say she's playing the goddess Athena.
 
I'd definitely stand with you.

One thing tho... I don't think Lupita is playing Helen ... I'm probably wrong but I don't think she is. Nolan seems to be keeping that casting close to the vest. In my mind, I'd say she's playing the goddess Athena.
Funny thing though, BOTH Helen and Athena are daughters of Zeus (if Nolan has gods in his odyssey, then presumably Helens semi-divine origin remains intact) so they ought to share some ethnicity. IMDB certainly thinks Lupita at Helen and Zendaya is Athena, so its pretty safe to assume Zeus is black as he would be the common link while his wife Metis would be white and Leda, Queen of Sparta, was black as well for Helen.

Obviously this is silly but it is what you get when casting doesn't take into account ethnicity, biology (such as it is for gods) and source material.
 
Im not sure i follow. Are you saying that its because its life action that it's offensive? If it was animated it would be no big deal?



I mean one of those is a pretty universally popular Disney movie that has hades speak with a new York accent. That movie ALSO depicts the greek muses as black rnb singers.

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One of ems even fat.

Something tells me if that released today the topic would get a lot of responses here of a similar vein.

Which begs the question. Was it not considered disrespecting Greek culture to do such a thing 30 years ago?
This is a nonsensical Disney cartoon. Which, if the Odyssey is supposed to be a nonsensical action movie, advertise it as such. Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter did a great job of that. But if you're coming out of Oppenheimer and looking for an Oscar for the Odyssey, I believe it's your obligation to lean in on historical accuracy, culture, and understanding is important.
 
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