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A quick question for Silent Hill afficianados

SolidSnakex said:
Yah Yamaoka did those also. He said his goal was to make vocal songs that didn't sound like your typical videogame songs.
well i'd say he did a pretty good job with that then. the title song for SH3 was one of my favorite songs for a while even, just because it really isn't your typical video game song (and better than much of the "radio" crap out at the time...)
 
I think the reason I really like SH2 as a whole experience a bit better than SH1 or SH3 is that it really has a more serious and less "plotty" tone to it. IMO, the whole "cult" and "
birthing
god" thing in SH1 and SH3 are just somewhat silly conceptually. I like how SH2 just takes the premise of the town and uses it for psychological torture of its characters, rather than having characters actively trying to escape or stop some plot point from occuring.

If you have to have all of that cult stuff SH1 did it better than SH3 I believe. SH3, IMO just screwed up when the whole first part of the game is basically aimless because you have very little motivation for why anything is happening until you get back home to the apartment.
 
dark10x said:
Anyways, I'm glad you're playing and enjoying. If you don't mind, could you give me a quick rundown of where you think the various plot elements are going? Think about each character (and even enemy) and consider their meaning. I'm just curious if you've caught onto certainy things just yet. Don't worry, I won't spoil anything.


Okay, I guess I'll try to sort out my thoughts so far. Uh, LakeEarth and anyone else playing it don't read these spoilers.

All right, for some reason it seems that the town of Silent Hill is completely deserted, and it looks like it has been for some time. The only people there that aren't twisted abominations are all from out of town, and it seems something brought them there. James got the note from his wife, the crazy girl in the cemetary is looking for her mother, the little girl was called there by James's wife. I'm guessing that something/someone (the cult people are mentioning?) called them all there for some reason. There must be something they all have in common. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that they all have killed someone.

The guy who was throwing up in the toilet I am almost sure killed a bunch of people, that was pretty much the first thing he said, denying it, and he was so vehement about it. Also I think there was some sort of magazine article somewhere along the way that said something about it?

The girl in the cemetary when you met her in (her?) the apartment that had that mirror, she gave you a knife. When I examined it I saw that it had blood on it already, even though she didn't show any wounds. I'm guessing she killed her mother, and that was the grave she was at before (?) and she returned to her (?) old apartment to see her mother because she was deluded for some reason, probably kind of like how James is being (mis?)lead by the note from his dead wife, and sort of realized what happened and that was why she was so suicidal (?).

James....well, the only person you know of in his life is his wife, so that is probably who he killed. I'm guessing though that he didn't do it out of malice. He probably did it as a mercy killing, because her illness was causing so much pain.

Maria...well, I guess it doesn't really matter since the dumpster head killed her. Or if it does matter I will probably find out later, or in the sidestory game where she is the playable character. Although I think the fact that she so closely resembles James' wife has to have some significance, although what that is I do not know yet.

Oh yeah, the little girl. I don't know much about her yet, I'm still chasing after her. She's kind of an enigma, it almost seems to me that she doesn't even realize that there are monsters anywhere. She shows no signs of fear, and she seemed to not even know what James was talking about when he mentioned them.

Which brings me to the monsters. The first ones you meet kind of resemble a person in a straight jacket, and in the hospital you meet things that look like nurses, which are kind of leading me to think there is some kind of insanity angle going on. I don't know what those headless puppet/mannequin things are, nor do I know why the pyramid guy thing has humped three of them until they died before it turned it's attention to cutting James in half with a sword. And those weird rectangle things of flesh that hang from the cieling.....well, those are just all kinds of fucked up. No clue whatsoever.

So here is the grand conclusion that I've come to at this point:
All these people are insane and in a mental instute. While I was exploring the hospital I saw a note about a patient who could travel to another world in his mind or something to that effect. I kind of wonder if he was talking about James. But the point is, I think James and these other mentally disturbed individuals have crossed over to this other world, Silent Hill, in their minds. Now, there's lots of flaws in this theory, and I'm probably overthinking this a lot, but I have just seen so many things having to do with insanity. The straightjacket/nurse monsters, practically the entire hospital seemed more like an insane asylum to me. The girl from the cemetary seems on the verge of a breakdown, and James just seems so melancholy about everything. Maria has some issues with her drug dependancies, and neediness. Just all kinds of things are making me think this way.
 
Interesting points, Ohamsie, but that's not what it is. :) If you play Silent Hill 1, 3, and 4, you'll know that it is caused by
a demon and the cult
.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts after you've finished the game. :D

What each character experiences/sees in Silent Hill (in each game) is different, BTW.
 
Was it just me, or were Maria's teeth sharp, like fangs? Something about her face just made her look creepy to me. I don't know if it was the dark circles under her eyes, or the wicked smile, or the 'Hey, buy me a drink and I'll let you take me home' outfit....but something about her really creeps me the fvck out.
 
silent hill 2's story is so good once you fully comprehend everything about it.

and no its tottally seperate from 1.

silent hill 2 is actually my favorite in the series because of the story.

peace
 
Okay, I guess I'll try to sort out my thoughts so far. Uh, LakeEarth and anyone else playing it don't read these spoilers.

You're onto things, that's for sure. Keep following the story with that sort of thinking and you should really appreciate it even more. Where exactly are you in the game at this point?

It's wonderful hearing about the game again. I can't help but feel a bit nostalgic when I think about it.

Silent Hill 2 and ICO were released on the same day and that day was one of the best gaming moments I can recall. 2001 is one of my favorite gaming years. I mean, we started off the year a bit slow, but ended up with Twisted Metal Black, Sonic Adventure 2, Klonoa 2, GT3, Silent Hill 2, ICO, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, Halo, Devil May Cry, ZOE, and more! So many incredible games...

A bit off-topic, but what was the general consensus on Siren in these parts? Worth picking up?

It depends on how easily frustrated you become. The game is flat out difficult. Basically, the story is pieced together kinda like Pulp Fiction in that you piece the story together from bits that have taken place during and around 3 specific days. You switch between a number of characters and days and have to piece the story together through your actions. When actually in game, you'll find that you are generally given a simple goal, but reaching that goal requires some thinking.

The areas you explore are typically filled with enemies. You can sight jack these enemies in order to gain information on their location. This essentially allows you to see through their own eyes and provides a method of learning what they might be doing (and you can assign the viewpoints of 4 different enemies to shortcut buttons). I found that sight jacking both adds and detracts from the sense of fear. In some cases, knowing the locations of all enemies removes some of the tension (though, in the darkness, you can't easily see them all with your own eyes), but there are other times where you'll take a look at an enemy only to see your character right before your eyes as the enemy moves in for an attack you weren't prepared for.

What makes the game so difficult is that you are forced to solve puzzles in an EXTREMELY dangerous environment. For one, the enemy AI is incredibly intense and can go anywhere you can. They are also very powerful and can kill you rather quickly with certain weapons. So, in order to survive, you must be very cautious when approaching a situation. If you are sneaking through an old school, for example, you can't just run up and down the halls trying doors and such like Silent Hill. You'll actually need to hide in various rooms and really sneak through the areas while trying to distract the enemies. It can be pretty intense at times. It should also be noted that you aren't really able to flat out kill the enemies. The crimson rain will revive them over time and they will be back in action...

The puzzles you are forced to solve are not necessarily simple either, and they are made much more difficult by the fact that you can't simply run around an area trying out various solutions. You better come up with a gameplan before you actually start running around solving things.

What really ends up making Siren even more challenging is the fact that death will result in you restarting whichever section you were working on. This is why you need patience. You are in a world where you could die very quickly and you must approach most situations carefully. It's pretty intense at times and the story is very cool and, with that in mind, I'd recommend trying it out. There are some really good ideas in the game and it is topped off with some great atmosphere. It was also directed by one of the original creators of Silent Hill. Just keep in mind that it is VERY difficult. This is TRUE survival horror here...
 
kumanoki said:
Was it just me, or were Maria's teeth sharp, like fangs? Something about her face just made her look creepy to me. I don't know if it was the dark circles under her eyes, or the wicked smile, or the 'Hey, buy me a drink and I'll let you take me home' outfit....but something about her really creeps me the fvck out.

Probably the smile

silenthill2_0530_screen042.jpg

silenthill2_0530_screen043.jpg
 
dark10x said:
You're onto things, that's for sure. Keep following the story with that sort of thinking and you should really appreciate it even more. Where exactly are you in the game at this point?

It's wonderful hearing about the game again. I can't help but feel a bit nostalgic when I think about it.

Silent Hill 2 and ICO were released on the same day and that day was one of the best gaming moments I can recall. 2001 is one of my favorite gaming years. I mean, we started off the year a bit slow, but ended up with Twisted Metal Black, Sonic Adventure 2, Klonoa 2, GT3, Silent Hill 2, ICO, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, Halo, Devil May Cry, ZOE, and more! So many incredible games...



It depends on how easily frustrated you become. The game is flat out difficult. Basically, the story is pieced together kinda like Pulp Fiction in that you piece the story together from bits that have taken place during and around 3 specific days. You switch between a number of characters and days and have to piece the story together through your actions. When actually in game, you'll find that you are generally given a simple goal, but reaching that goal requires some thinking.

The areas you explore are typically filled with enemies. You can sight jack these enemies in order to gain information on their location. This essentially allows you to see through their own eyes and provides a method of learning what they might be doing (and you can assign the viewpoints of 4 different enemies to shortcut buttons). I found that sight jacking both adds and detracts from the sense of fear. In some cases, knowing the locations of all enemies removes some of the tension (though, in the darkness, you can't easily see them all with your own eyes), but there are other times where you'll take a look at an enemy only to see your character right before your eyes as the enemy moves in for an attack you weren't prepared for.

What makes the game so difficult is that you are forced to solve puzzles in an EXTREMELY dangerous environment. For one, the enemy AI is incredibly intense and can go anywhere you can. They are also very powerful and can kill you rather quickly with certain weapons. So, in order to survive, you must be very cautious when approaching a situation. If you are sneaking through an old school, for example, you can't just run up and down the halls trying doors and such like Silent Hill. You'll actually need to hide in various rooms and really sneak through the areas while trying to distract the enemies. It can be pretty intense at times. It should also be noted that you aren't really able to flat out kill the enemies. The crimson rain will revive them over time and they will be back in action...

The puzzles you are forced to solve are not necessarily simple either, and they are made much more difficult by the fact that you can't simply run around an area trying out various solutions. You better come up with a gameplan before you actually start running around solving things.

What really ends up making Siren even more challenging is the fact that death will result in you restarting whichever section you were working on. This is why you need patience. You are in a world where you could die very quickly and you must approach most situations carefully. It's pretty intense at times and the story is very cool and, with that in mind, I'd recommend trying it out. There are some really good ideas in the game and it is topped off with some great atmosphere. It was also directed by one of the original creators of Silent Hill. Just keep in mind that it is VERY difficult. This is TRUE survival horror here...


That actually sounds really good. I wasn't going to get this because of the horrible reviews but I have to pick it up now. This sounds like exactly my kind of game. Monsters that can actually kill you easily... who would've thought?
 
About the cult stuff throughout series...

I don't see how the cult is silly in Silent Hill 1. It wasn't the focus of the plot. It was just a sort of explanation to the happenings. I liked the cult in this way. It left the whole thing up to your imagination. You got a taste of what it was like. Plus, how else COULD they explain what's going on in Silent Hill? They wanted to create Silent Hill as a Hell on Earth... so Satan worshippers were going to have to be tied in. Silent Hill 2 had only a hint of the cult in it (one of the endings, you could revive Mary and there was that book, probably a cult propaganda item, that described Samael). It was a great game. Then Silent Hill 3 came along, which played well and had excellent background and setting artwork (the character designs took a backseat) and the whole focus on the cult sucked. All Silent Hill 3 was was trite fan fiction (the story creators of Silent Hill 1 had gone onto better things, namely Siren) and I just hate it now. THIS is where the cult got silly, in my opinion. It just seemed cheesy and not really realistic at all. I like certain things about the game, though, basically everything not having to do with the story, Heather and the rest of the cast of characters. Then Silent Hill 4 rolls around and is a great entry into the series. The cult plot once again was not the focus of the story, instead providing some explanation behind Walter Sullivan (although the Silent Hill 3 remnants annoy the hell out of me). Basically, I like the cult as long as it's sort of a subplot in the game.

The scariest dungeon for me out of any of the games is probaby the sewers in Silent Hill 1 or the hospital in Silent Hill 1. The reason I love the first one the best is it's the only one that ever really scared me. Silent Hill 2 did, only in certain parts though. The prison, in particular.
 
My favorite SH dungeons are:

1) SH: sewers
I did a lot of tunnel running in my youth and know that sewers can be really creepy places. My real life experiences heightened my terror here. Especially with the introduction of the two new enemies.

2) SH3: subway
I first played SH3 with a group of friends. For some reason, this actually made the game more scary. It had 2 really awesome, eerie death traps. The rooms were very claustrophobic and packed with enemies, and when you actually get into a moving train the atmosphere is intense. It also introduced the fat guys. The first time we saw the fat guy get up, I turned around and ran back into the train. Looking out the windows, I saw the fat guy walk past the first door into the train. I planned to run out that door and to the room's exit (which the fat guy was blocking when he got up). Then we heard the noise, I turned around, and saw the fat guy had already gotten into the train from the other door and was BOOKING it right for me! We ALL started screaming like little girls.

3) SH2: hospital
I liked finding the notes. It reminded me of the PC point-and-click game Sanitarium. That room with the locked fridge had incredible atmosphere; had me wondering what horrors could possibly be lurking inside (kinda a letdown when you actually get the thing open). The first time I saw a SH2 nurse I did the quick turnaround and immediately went back to the previous room just to get away from the thing, even though I had a crapload of ammo.

4) SH2: prison
This would be #2 or #3, possibly even #1 if it didn't recycle enemies from earlier in the game. Everything leading up this dungeon was intense. The historical society (Misty Day), the long staircase, etc. Then when you actually enter the prison the atmosphere is just intense. Then... you see a straightjacket enemy and that atmosphere is shattered. All I could think about was being dissappointed that there were no new enemies. Once I got over that in my 2nd playthrough I was able to absorb the atmosphere again, but lack of enemy variety is the ONLY thing keeping SH2 from being the best in the series. It really IS that big of a flaw.

5) SH: school
My first dungeon. Actually, I first played this level on the PSM demo before the game released. It allowed you to get through the clock tower before the demo ended, I believe. Incredible.

I always thought the hospital in SH1 was overrated. Incredibly scary, but not as much as the rest of the game.
 
Lyte Edge said:
Interesting points, Ohamsie, but that's not what it is. :)

Well, I didn't expect to be right, I was just trying to sort out my thoughts and see if I could come up with anything. Oh yeah, another insanity thing I noticed, and a downright cool part in general was the fact that
for the map of the hospital, the garden area on it looked like a huge open space, and later once you are brought there it turns out to be this really small, enclosed space with just a patch of dying grass. I did a double take on the map, trying to see where I was. It had just followed some cut scene that brought me there, and the first thing I did was open my map, and I saw that I was in the garden. So I closed out of the map, stared at this incredibly small space for a little bit, thought that I had misread the map only to open it up and discover that this tiny area was, in fact, the garden. It was a total WTF moment for me. It made me think of some abusive mental hospital where they didn't take care of the patients at all. They would put on a bright cheerful facade, and say stuff like "Oh, your father will love it here, we have a caring staff, nice facilities, and even a big garden for them to wander around in!" but in fact they wouldn't give two shits about the patients there and would just strap them to beds at night, throw them in the 'quiet' rooms (padded cells) for the slightest infractions, and reward them with a tiny bit of sunlight in their 'garden'.

As for Maria, she kind of weirded me out too. She seems kind of manipulative of James, and her facial expressions remind me of a barracuda. I'll probably learn more about her later in the game or when I play her sidequest.

Where I'm at in the game, I'm still at the part where I'm about to leave
the alternate hospital to get a wrench or something
. I'm wondering if the
"alternate-ness"
will carry over in to the rest of the town now.

I haven't had much time to play today or yesterday. I usually play it in the evening hours, but I make sure to stop a few hours before I go to bed. I live in a small college town (Athens, Ohio) which is said to be one of the most haunted places in America. While I don't believe it is haunted, it definitely has a creepy sort of vibe to it, especially in the fall and winter. This town has five cemetaries that create an almost perfect pentagram, and there is an old abandoned insane asylum within walking distance of where I live. It was shut down in the seventies and they just released the patients into the general population, and there are a lot of other weird stories. Plus I live in a single apartment at the top of a hill, and there is a very slight gap in the bottom of my door and the floor that makes this ghostly howling noise any time even the slightest of winds blow. So it gets a little creepy playing games like this. :(
 
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