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[Andrew2]

Its quite funny that I came across this, but recently I decided to look over some trademarks and happen to have notice SEGA recently made a filing for Afterburner. Whats interesting, the descriptor under Goods and Services seems to point a game for arcade rather consoles.

Anyhow heres a look at the trademark for yourself:

Word Mark AFTER BURNER
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: video game software, computer game programs, game programs for use with arcade video game machines, game programs for use with hand-held game machines, game programs for use with mobile phones

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: arcade game machines
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Serial Number 78668159
Filing Date July 12, 2005
Current Filing Basis 1B;44D
Original Filing Basis 1B;44D
Owner (APPLICANT) Kabushiki Kaisha Sega d/b/a Sega Corporation CORPORATION JAPAN 1-2-12, Haneda, Ohta-Ku Tokyo JAPAN
Attorney of Record Jay K. Meadway
Priority Date June 23, 2005
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

 

[Jonnyram]

Doesn't "video game software" mean console software??

 

[thegodsend]

Since Sega showed Afterburner behind closed doors at E3 as a Xbox 360 demo I'm absolutely sure this game will come to 360 sometimes within the next year.

I think from a financial viewpoint it's more than neccesary to bring those expensive developed games from the arcades to the consoles.

Would be great to see some old Sega games back in the arcades but I wouldn't count on arcade exclusive releases...

 

[Andrew2]

Doesn't "video game software" mean console software??

From my understanding of how trademark filings work, the term "video game software" only describes the type of product SEGA is legally claiming. Essentially, nobody else could use the name "After Burner" for a video game other than SEGA. Also, SEGA claimed arcade machines and mobiles phones(possibily for Afterburner.net similar to VF.net, VS.net or D.net).

Anyhow, from my looks of things, the trademark doesn't seem to have any type of the descriptor/claim that console games usually get in filings, but we'll see come

 

[tetsuoxb]

Since Sega showed Afterburner behind closed doors at E3 as a Xbox 360 demo I'm absolutely sure this game will come to 360 sometimes within the next year.

I think from a financial viewpoint it's more than neccesary to bring those expensive developed games from the arcades to the consoles.

Would be great to see some old Sega games back in the arcades but I wouldn't count on arcade exclusive releases...

Considering that was a Lindbergh demo and not a 360 demo, I would not be so convinced.

 

[Barnimal]

afterburner also is now on my verizon wireless get it now list.

 

[Jonnyram]

Essentially, nobody else could use the name "After Burner" for a video game other than SEGA.

Exactly. There is no reason why Sega themselves can't use it though. They don't have to apply for rights to use it, do they?

 

[Andrew2]

Exactly. There is no reason why Sega themselves can't use it though. They don't have to apply for rights to use it, do they?

To legally use it of course they have to lay claim to it by filiing for it. If SEGA had not renewed their claim and say I went out and trademarked it as videogame software, SEGA would be out luck(given that SEGA doesn't also claim to After Burner in other countries)

BTW, this is the very reason why Koei had to change the name of thier PS3 title to NI-Oh from ONI. Take-Two already lays claim to "ONI" as video game software.

 

[Jonnyram]

To legally use it of course they have to lay claim to it by filiing for it. If SEGA had not renewed their claim and say I went out and trademarked it as videogame software, SEGA would be out luck(given that SEGA doesn't also claim to After Burner in other countries)

Perhaps I'm missing something in your logic here. You just said that they have registered it under video games as a means to block other people using it for that. So doesn't that mean they can use it themselves?

 

[Lazy8s]

The new Sonic, Afterburner, Virtua Fighter, and The House of the Dead 4 were developed for Sega Sammy's high-end PowerVR hardware, being used in arcade game development.

 

[GamerShu]

i must be in the minority...but it seems like it would be hard to generate profit from arcade games unless it takes off like DDR

 

[tetsuoxb]

i must be in the minority...but it seems like it would be hard to generate profit from arcade games unless it takes off like DDR

Quit thinking in terms of American arcades and start thinking in terms of Japanese arcades. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Japanese person on a DDR machine... in the past 3 years.

 

[Lazy8s]

Arcade units are sold with very high mark-ups, and Sega Sammy also run the complementary business of operating arcade centers. The two endeavors have continually been lucrative for the company, enough to even more than offset their loss making home software business.

 

[sangreal]

Doesn't "video game software" mean console software??

Yes.

From my understanding of how trademark filings work, the term "video game software" only describes the type of product SEGA is legally claiming. Essentially, nobody else could use the name "After Burner" for a video game other than SEGA. Also, SEGA claimed arcade machines and mobiles phones(possibily for Afterburner.net similar to VF.net, VS.net or D.net).

Anyhow, from my looks of things, the trademark doesn't seem to have any type of the descriptor/claim that console games usually get in filings, but we'll see come

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but "video game software" does cover consoles and no further descriptors are required. The G&S descriptions aren't chosen from a list or anything, they are just made up by the filing entity so you'll see differences in detail between companies. Sega only ever really lists "video game software" for consoles, however. The two lists you see (IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S and IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S) just refer to the different classes (http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/international.htm) the goods and services fall under.

 

[Outcast2004]

....whats an arcade?.....

 

[BuddyC]

Word Mark AFTER BURNER
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: video game software, computer game programs, game programs for use with arcade video game machines, game programs for use with hand-held game machines, game programs for use with mobile phones

Just in case you missed the past three times this was pointed out, but those commas, they seperate words, and in this case, these words describe markets. So that means they've got After Burner trademarked for a) consoles, b) computers, c) arcades, d) hand-held devices, and e) mobile phones.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

This game better come to consoles. Leave it to Sega to screw that up, I suppose.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

It's going to be on the consoles, period.

SEGA would be dumber than shit not to. And it was at E3 for a reason, because it's coming to the consoles.

 

[Luckett_X]

I'm fairly sure there would have been little point in that Sonic demo running on the Lindbergh hardware, considering I think someone recently said that was a brief look at something already in development for next gen consoles.

It still eludes me why Sega didn't make a X360/PS3 arcade board allowing for easy ports, rather than retardedly making their own hardware.

And yes I know the response: It's SEGA.

 

[Lazy8s]

Because the next consoles' hardwares weren't ready anywhere near as early as Lindbergh was, because Sega Sammy didn't judge ATi or nVidia's offerings for that time to be as good a choice as PowerVR's, because a custom design gives them more control over scaling, sublicensing, and availability.

Sonic might be an arcade game, but they also might've started development on Lindbergh simply to have an actual, working platform for it to target the next generation of complexity that would be needed for the game's engine.

 

[Jeffahn]

....whats an arcade?.....

It is where you can test your arcade skills, mostly against other players.

...

 

[xsarien]

SEGA would be dumber than shit not to.

Hi, you must be new...

 

[Outcast2004]

It is where you can test your arcade skills, msostly against other players.

...

You mean people go to a PLACE and intermingle with OTHER gamers? And it's not online?

LIES!

*runs out of room crying, pushes over magazine rack.

 

[Jeffahn]

You mean people go to a PLACE and intermingle with OTHER gamers? And it's not online?

LIES!

*runs out of room crying, pushes over magazine rack.

Some games (like VF) are not practicle to play online, and other arcade games have elaborate/expensive interfaces which are not practical/economical for home use.

...

 

[Tain]

I'd love a full explanation of the magazine rack thing.

 

[xexex]

power / performance (my guess)


1.) Playstation 3
2.) System SP (PowerVR5 Eurasia)
3.) Xbox 360
4.) Revolution
5.) Lindbergh (PowerVR5)
6.) Aurora (PowerVR MBX Pro)


or (if counting Xbox 360's strengths like eDRAM bandwidth)

1.) Xbox 360
2.) Playstation 3
3.) System SP
4.) Revolution
5.) Lindbergh
6.) Aurora

 

[Outcast2004]

Some games (like VF) are not practicle to play online, and other arcade games have elaborate/expensive interfaces which are not practical/economical for home use.

...

You're a bit slow aren't you.....

it was a joke son, a joke.

I was raised in arcades, no need to explain the logistics of them to me.


It's just not practicle to develop for arcades anymore, they are all but extinct. The expense far outways the little income they bring.

I call bullshit that Virtua Fighter would be inpracticle to play online. They've got quicker games like DOA: U running just fine. It can be done, it's just a matter of optimizing what's there.

Simple fact arcades were officially dead at the start of the 32 bit/ end of the 16 bit generation.... nothing is going to change that.

You'll still have your places like Dave & Busters & Jillians that have and arcade ut not much else.

 

[Jeffahn]

You're a bit slow aren't you.....

it was a joke son, a joke.

I was raised in arcades, no need to explain the logistics of them to me.

Your picture didn't show because I had it Ad-blocked.

It's just not practicle to develop for arcades anymore, they are all but extinct. The expense far outways the little income they bring.

You need to visit Japan. Remember that Capcom, Konami et al are still releasing arcade games.

I call bullshit that Virtua Fighter would be inpracticle to play online. They've got quicker games like DOA: U running just fine. It can be done, it's just a matter of optimizing what's there.

VF is played on a /frame basis and any delay in action/response destoys that. How is DoA quicker than VF? At this stage it can only be done on a LAN type system where speeds are guaranteed.

Simple fact arcades were officially dead at the start of the 32 bit/ end of the 16 bit generation.... nothing is going to change that.

Home consoles/PCs have borrowed much from the arcades, but I still think there is place for arcades in the future and Sega is working on reviving the market overall.

...

 

[Outcast2004]

Your picture didn't show because I had it Ad-blocked.
You need to visit Japan. Remember that Capcom, Konami et al are still releasing arcade games.

This isn't Japan... and Japan's not exactly relevant anymore.

There is no market for arcades anymore. PERIOD.

Nice try though.

As for DOA, it's a quicker/twitchier type of game play. Not a lot of strategy involved, but quick and fun.

Trust me on this, fighters do work just fine online. Stop living in the past, arcades are dead.

 

[Jeffahn]

This isn't Japan... and Japan's not exactly relevant anymore.

There is no market for arcades anymore. PERIOD.

Nice try though.

Go to Japan. Traditional arcade have lost out to the consoles, but there are always games that are only playable in arcades. Anyways, Live is pretty much like an arcade in spirit.

As for DOA, it's a quicker/twitchier type of game play. Not a lot of strategy involved, but quick and fun.

As long as you're happy.

Trust me on this, fighters do work just fine online. Stop living in the past, arcades are dead.

Trust me, VF will not work properly on something like Live. It may be 'playable' but it won't be fair; in that it will be possible to lose merely due to a delay in the system.

...

 

[Outcast2004]

Christ, nevermind. You're too thick headed to get it.

Arcades are NOT a viable model anymore. So what if there are still arcades in Japan? Any game today will work in an online environment, it just takes a developer that carea about the online portion of it's product.

VF is not some fighting game "messiah" that couldn't be done fairly online. It's more that possible. Sega's just slow, like usual, in getting with the times. DOA was stated as an example of a fighter somewhat COMPARABLE to VF to show you that it can/could be done.. and well.

Look for the next Tekken to be online and do quite well at it.

THIS ISN'T JAPAN!

This whole exchange of words started because you were to dense to get sarcasm.

Arcades died years ago and aren't coming back. FACT.

 

[Quartet]

arcade as a "place" full of cabinet and only that is not how the whole thing started. it started by cabinet in restaurant, bar and other plublic place like general store and mall. Some where mechanical only, some used electrical component, mainly fliper.

Then as it become more popular, big city allowed the pool of gamer to have exclusivly cabinet place selling nothing other than video game time. And vector game started, bitmap game... you know the rest.

As this state lasted, it allowed game to become more maintream and the "arcade" concept was exported into little town where is was at is zenith.

This lasted like that for almost 15 year, until the gap between arcade technology and home console faded.

Sure nobody would risk to launch back an arcade into a sub 50,000 populated town anymore, but 1 or 2 cabinet in each 10 walmart is not unthinkable, same with major restauration chain that want to attract kid and teen (and arcade raised adult generation).

So, to have arcade back is only a factor of the technology and the human factor of having to meet other player face to face. I don't call them opponent because it's one of the thing that did bring down the experiance for me. Being kick by arcade regular all the time is not that fun. This is what was going with all the "fighter game". They did not kept the balance between competitive games and cooperative games.

Bring interesting cabinet, with cool exclusive controller, with directional sound so that you can have a good audio experiance waterver is around, bring 3d LCD screen in standard (some even exist to have 3d for 2 different point of view for coop game) and arcade operator will come back.

To that having better than usual graphic would help. An arcade machine don't bother to have the 40$ less that make mass production want that kind of saving as they end up showing a lot on the balance sheet. They don't have size restriction, heat concern and have marginal compatability and upgrade kit concern.

Of course, if they still want the 1$ for 3 min of play, nobody will come. But if they keep the 25c for 3min of play for a casual gamer but that is not a coin muncher and a good player could last 20 min with the same 25c, it would work great.

 

[BuddyC]

VF is not some fighting game "messiah" that couldn't be done fairly online. It's more that possible. Sega's just slow, like usual, in getting with the times. DOA was stated as an example of a fighter somewhat COMPARABLE to VF to show you that it can/could be done.. and well.

To properly bring the VF experience online, Sega would have to find a way to maintain 60 fps (or was it 59.7 or something like that) without dropping any frames due to latency. That's harder than it sounds.

 

[Lord Error]

Arcades are NOT a viable model anymore. So what if there are still arcades in Japan?

As mentioned earlier, Sega is making more profit on their arcade business than they do with their home console business. For them, it's obviously a viable model.

 

[Outcast2004]

This says more about your understanding of the Virtua Fighter series than you think.

How so?

You're talking to someone who owns and plays/has played into the ground for all 4 games. In fact VF4: Evolution is one of my favorite fighters of all time. I can't stand the Tekken/DOA series. It was listed as a comparable example of a quickly paced fighter that was successfully moved into the online arena.

I understand it just fine, thanks!

Like I said, Sega is slow with getting this series online. It should have been done already.

As mentioned earlier, Sega is making more profit on their arcade business than they do with their home console business. For them, it's obviously a viable model.

Could this be more to do with Sega as a company making every possible bad decision they possibly could?

They ran them selves into the ground and are all but a shadow of the company they once were.

I love Segas titles and I support them, have since the Master System, but damn have they done some stupid things that's effectivly killed themselves.

 

[BuddyC]

How so?

I've got this nasty habit of making a post, going back to edit it and coming out with a completely different post. Sorry about that. Anyways, what I meant to say was..

To properly bring the VF experience online, Sega would have to find a way to maintain 60 fps (or was it 59.7 or something like that) without dropping any frames due to latency. That's harder than it sounds.

 

[Shinobi]

Afterburner for arcades, not consoles??

Of course Sega might release a home version anyway, which'll prompt the same dumb fucks who supposedly wanted the game to whine that it's not indepth enough to compete with Ace Combat 17 or whichever version is due out next. Lord knows OutRun 2's been there and done that already.

And until Sega starts losing money in the arcade business, suggesting they shut that side of their business down is completely and utterly assinine. With damn near everyone else bailing from that sector, Sega's pretty much cleaning up. Besides, Sega's rarely made a mistep in their 40+ years of arcade business...it's the home business that they've fucked up repeatedly. Two different things entirely.

 

[xexex]

heh, After Burner was born in the arcade, so naturally, it makes complete sense for the new After Burner to be for arcades first, console second.

with that said, I am not saying the new After Burner is coming to arcades first. only that it would be natural if it did.

 

[Brofist]

Quit thinking in terms of American arcades and start thinking in terms of Japanese arcades. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Japanese person on a DDR machine... in the past 3 years.

so true

This isn't Japan... and Japan's not exactly relevant anymore.

There is no market for arcades anymore. PERIOD.

Nice try though.

As for DOA, it's a quicker/twitchier type of game play. Not a lot of strategy involved, but quick and fun.

Trust me on this, fighters do work just fine online. Stop living in the past, arcades are dead.

who gives a shit about what's relevant to you. In Japan arcades aren't dead. Sega doesn't care if they are dead in buttfuck Iowa or wherever you're from, they care if there is money to be made in the arcade market that is still making them money.

 

[Lord Error]

Could this be more to do with Sega as a company making every possible bad decision they possibly could?

They ran them selves into the ground and are all but a shadow of the company they once were.

I love Segas titles and I support them, have since the Master System, but damn have they done some stupid things that's effectivly killed themselves.

Still, they are making money on the arcades. Why should anyone be considering that part of business not viable if it's making money to them? I wouldn't mind seeing them doing better on the home consoles of course, but for them it obviously makes sense to keep the arcade business running also.

 

[Outcast2004]

To properly bring the VF experience online, Sega would have to find a way to maintain 60 fps (or was it 59.7 or something like that) without dropping any frames due to latency. That's harder than it sounds.

Oh trust me, I'm not disputing the difficulties of optimizing a title like VF4:Evo for online. But I'm alos not one to just throw my hands up and say it can't be done.

Of course it can be done. I've stated examples of games that run at quick pace that have been successfully used in the online arena.

It all comes down to Sammy/Sega (there is no more Sega as we know it) to actually get off their collective efforts and make it happen.

I get the fact thhat arcades are still around in JAPAN, but I'm talking on a western scale. In the US arcades don't exist anymore. I'm sure there's still a few here and there. But speaking for just NE ohio. There's NONE within a 30-50 mile radius of me. The last one that was left has now een converted to an indoor blacklight putt-putt. (no, I'm not kidding)

The question of income of this, how much of that money from the Japanese arcade market is offsetting the tremendous losses intheir other divisions. How much of that are they actually seeing in PROFIT?

Good for them if they still make some money there, thats got to mostly from Sammy's pachinko ventures and NOT video games. Or did everyone forget thats what sammy has a large stake in?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Like I said, Sega is slow with getting this series online. It should have been done already.

VF4 is networked in the arcades in Japan, you can play against people in other arcades. If it was as simple as you make out to get it online as well they would have done so by now.

When they announced the arcade networking, I remember them saying their grand plan with later VF's was to have people playing VF at home play against people in the arcades, sharing the same stats for both home/arcade. But for this to work, it *has* to be at 60fps and people can't lose out due to lag. DOA online is 30fps isn't it? Sega will take it online when it can be done properly, and not before.

And VF4 has made Sega a fortune in the arcades in Japan, probably more than the US home releases. There were whole floors of arcades dedicated to the game when I was over there, with all machines in use and everyone playing with a VF.net card. So I don't think you should be telling them to give up on it.

When VF5 hits the arcade it will be a very big thing.

 

[Shinobi]

Good for them if they still make some money there, thats got to mostly from Sammy's pachinko ventures and NOT video games. Or did everyone forget thats what sammy has a large stake in?

Sega was making money in the arcade business before Sammy bought them. Hell, that was probably a big reason why the acquisition was made.

And why grill Sega over no online VF, when no online game I know of has lagless play? Hell, Sony's made four GT's and they couldn't even be bothered to come up with a fucking online leaderboard for the last one. With VF's style of play, I imagine it'd be just as hard to make perfect online with the current technology, if not harder. But that doesn't mean they're not trying.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Sega was making money in the arcade business before Sammy bought them. Hell, that was probably a big reason why the acquisition was made.

Exactly. And that's probably also why we are seeing this apparent shift back to arcade development, it's what Sammy wanted Sega for. To consolidate their hold on the arcade business.

PSU is one of the exceptions, because the boss of Sammy was apparently a fan of the game and it's also a potential cashcow (hence the move to PS2).

 

[Outcast2004]

Sega was making money in the arcade business before Sammy bought them. Hell, that was probably a big reason why the acquisition was made.

And why grill Sega over no online VF, when no online game I know of has lagless play? Hell, Sony's made four GT's and they couldn't even be bothered to come up with a fucking online leaderboard for the last one. With VF's style of play, I imagine it'd be just as hard to make perfect online with the current technology, if not harder. But that doesn't mean they're not trying.

As for GT, online WAS included at one point. Delay after delay and something had to go so it could be released.... online was the victim.

I blame a lot of that on Sony's lack of an online structure. Of course you're going to allow lage when you have dial-up players mixing with broadband. (Don't give me the bullshit of having broadband only games. You can still get into those games with a dial-up. Look at the Socom series as an example of that.)

Until all the major consoles are on a broadband only format you're going to have problems. Yes, lag will always be a problem. BUT, you can compensate for that and still get your game working properly online.

 

[xexex]

I don't want to play VF5 or VFX online over the internet. I want to play via System Link or LAN, totally bypassing the internet.

 

[Shinobi]

As for GT, online WAS included at one point. Delay after delay and something had to go so it could be released.... online was the victim.

Who cares that it was there before? Hell, I'm sure VF4 was online at one point, just to see how it looked. Bottom line is GT4 isn't online, in stark contrast to virtually every racing game on the XBox released in the last two and a half years, and more then a few PS2 racers to boot. Meanwhile the fighting genre has maybe two online 3D fighters, and you're giving VF shit for not offering the same. The criticism simply isn't reasonable.

And Sega's probably done more console online R&D then anyone in the last decade. They had the ill-fated Telegenesis, Sega Channel, Netlink and SegaNet, along with networked arcade titles like Spikeout and Alien Front Online. Few companies have explored online options more then they have, yet you make it sound like they haven't even tried.

 

[Jeffahn]

Christ, nevermind. You're too thick headed to get it.

Arcades are NOT a viable model anymore. So what if there are still arcades in Japan? Any game today will work in an online environment, it just takes a developer that carea about the online portion of it's product.

I'm half agreeing with you because arcades have declined overall, but OTOH, have changed and adjusted what they offer. I can't predict the future, but what has prevented them from dying completely are specialist games like DDR and Silent Scope (yes, I know they are both available on home consoles) and this is the type of stuff we should be seeing more of.

I also consider Live as an 'arcade in spirit' and this is what I meant by the console market borrowing from the arcades. This is the type of thing Sega was planning with Seganet and the success of Live has proved their estwhile vision to be correct.

Somebody mentioned System SP. Now this is complete speculation on my part, but I do think it is what Sega is planning as the successor to VFnet; with possible arcade-arcade-home interplay and a card system that both offers rewards and works with more games. Having a certain rank in VF5 may give you a special car in Daytona 3, or something like that.

VF is not some fighting game "messiah" that couldn't be done fairly online. It's more that possible. Sega's just slow, like usual, in getting with the times. DOA was stated as an example of a fighter somewhat COMPARABLE to VF to show you that it can/could be done.. and well.

It can't be done fairly due to the latency issue. The 'fixes' that 'work' with other online games are not applicable to VF. You can lose a match by 1 lost frame and that is why it won't work correctly on current systems. Whwther or not DoA works online has nothing to whatsoever to do with whether or not VF will work online. Currently, it will not.

This whole exchange of words started because you were to dense to get sarcasm.

I am sarcasm.

Arcades died years ago and aren't coming back. FACT.

My psychic powers are no match for yours.

...

 

[Lindsay]

My psychic powers are no match for yours.

Mine say all signs point to Afterburner Pachinko.

 

[Tain]

To properly bring the VF experience online, Sega would have to find a way to maintain 60 fps (or was it 59.7 or something like that) without dropping any frames due to latency. That's harder than it sounds.

Eh, if Third Strike can be played online, I can completely see VF being playable online. Besides, I'm sure that Capcom didn't put a boatload of effort into 3S Live.