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Al-Qaida's discrimination against women sparks debate

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Ripclawe

Banned
This is so weird...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531...n&printer=1;_ylt=AloP6vT4EO0lUM3tx5AzWokUewgF

By LAUREN FRAYER, Associated Press Writer
Sat May 31, 12:47 PM ET



Muslim extremist women are challenging al-Qaida's refusal to include — or at least acknowledge — women in its ranks, in an emotional debate that gives rare insight into the gender conflicts lurking beneath one of the strictest strains of Islam.

In response to a female questioner, al-Qaida No. 2 leader Ayman Al-Zawahri said in April that the terrorist group does not have women. A woman's role, he said on the Internet audio recording, is limited to caring for the homes and children of al-Qaida fighters.

His remarks have since prompted an outcry from fundamentalist women, who are fighting or pleading for the right to be terrorists. The statements have also created some confusion, because in fact suicide bombings by women seem to be on the rise, at least within the Iraq branch of al-Qaida.

A'eeda Dahsheh is a Palestinian mother of four in Lebanon who said she supports al-Zawahri and has chosen to raise children at home as her form of jihad. However, she said, she also supports any woman who chooses instead to take part in terror attacks.

Another woman signed a more than 2,000-word essay of protest online as Rabeebat al-Silah, Arabic for "Companion of Weapons."

"How many times have I wished I were a man ... When Sheikh Ayman al-Zawahri said there are no women in al-Qaida, he saddened and hurt me," wrote "Companion of Weapons," who said she listened to the speech 10 times. "I felt that my heart was about to explode in my chest...I am powerless."

Such postings have appeared anonymously on discussion forums of Web sites that host videos from top al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden. While the most popular site requires names and passwords, many people use only nicknames, making their identities and locations impossible to verify.

However, groups that monitor such sites say the postings appear credible because of the knowledge and passion they betray. Many appear to represent computer-literate women arguing in the most modern of venues — the Internet — for rights within a feudal version of Islam.

"Women were very disappointed because what al-Zawahri said is not what's happening today in the Middle East, especially in Iraq or in Palestinian groups," said Rita Katz, director of the SITE Intelligence Group, an organization that monitors militant Web sites. "Suicide operations are being carried out by women, who play an important role in jihad."

It's not clear how far women play a role in al-Qaida because of the group's amorphous nature.

Terrorism experts believe there are no women in the core leadership ranks around bin Laden and al-Zawahri. But beyond that core, al-Qaida is really a movement with loosely linked offshoots in various countries and sympathizers who may not play a direct role. Women are clearly among these sympathizers, and some are part of the offshoot groups.

In the Iraq branch, for example, women have carried out or attempted at least 20 suicide bombings since 2003. Al-Qaida members suspected of training women to use suicide belts were captured in Iraq at least three times last year, the U.S. military has said.

Hamas, another militant group, is open about using women fighters and disagrees with al-Qaida's stated stance. At least 11 Palestinian women have launched suicide attacks in recent years.

"A lot of the girls I speak to ... want to carry weapons. They live with this great frustration and oppression," said Huda Naim, a prominent women's leader, Hamas member and Palestinian lawmaker in Gaza. "We don't have a special militant wing for women ... but that doesn't mean that we strip women of the right to go to jihad."

Al-Zawahri's remarks show the fine line al-Qaida walks in terms of public relations. In a modern Arab world where women work even in some conservative countries, al-Qaida's attitude could hurt its efforts to win over the public at large. On the other hand, noted SITE director Katz, al-Zawahri has to consider that many al-Qaida supporters, such as the Taliban, do not believe women should play a military role in jihad.

Al-Zawahri's comments came in a two-hour audio recording posted on an Islamic militant Web site, where he answered hundreds of questions sent in by al-Qaida sympathizers. He praised the wives of mujahedeen, or holy warriors. He also said a Muslim woman should "be ready for any service the mujahedeen need from her," but advised against traveling to a war front like Afghanistan without a male guardian.

Al-Zawahri's stance might stem from personal history, as well as religious beliefs. His first wife and at least two of their six children were killed in a U.S. airstrike in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar in 2001. He later accused the U.S. of intentionally targeting women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"I say to you ... (I have) tasted the bitterness of American brutality: my favorite wife's chest was crushed by a concrete ceiling," he wrote in a 2005 letter.

Al-Zawahri's question-and-answer campaign is one sign of al-Qaida's sophistication in using the Web to keep in touch with its popular base, even while its leaders remain in hiding. However, the Internet has also given those disenfranchised by al-Qaida — in this case, women — a voice they never had before.

The Internet is the only "breathing space" for women who are often shrouded in black veils and confined to their homes, "Ossama2001" wrote. She said al-Zawahri's words "opened old wounds" and pleaded with God to liberate women so they can participate in holy war.

Another woman, Umm Farouq, or mother of Farouq, wrote: "I use my pen and words, my honest emotions ... Jihad is not exclusive to men."

Such women are al-Qaida sympathizers who would not feel comfortable expressing themselves with men or others outside their circles, said Dia'a Rashwan, an expert on terrorism and Islamic movements at the Al-Ahram Center for Political and Strategic Studies in Cairo.

"The Internet gives them the ideal place to write their ideas, while they're hidden far from the world," he said.

Men have also responded to al-Zawahri's remarks. One male Internet poster named Hassan al-Saif asked: "Does our sheik mean that there is no need to use women in our current jihad? Why can we not use them?"

He was in the minority. Dozens of postings were signed by men who agreed with al-Zawahri that women should stick to supporting men and raising children according to militant Islam.

Women bent on becoming militants have at least one place to turn to. A niche magazine called "al-Khansaa" — named for a female poet in pre-Islamic Arabia who wrote lamentations for two brothers killed in battle — has popped up online.

The magazine is published by a group that calls itself the "women's information office in the Arab peninsula," and its contents include articles on women's terrorist training camps, according to SITE.


Its first issue, with a hot pink cover and gold embossed lettering, appeared in August 2004 with the lead article "Biography of the Female Mujahedeen."

The article read:

"We will stand, covered by our veils and wrapped in our robes, weapons in hand, our children in our laps, with the Quran and the Sunna (sayings) of the Prophet of Allah directing and guiding us."
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Totally awesome.

Personally I'd be pretty offended as well if they said I wasn't good enough basically to blow myself up. It's not like you're trying out for the football team, you flip a switch and go boom.

But hilarious he's got a Q and A section.
 

Tamanon

Banned
mAcOdIn said:
Totally awesome.

Personally I'd be pretty offended as well if they said I wasn't good enough basically to blow myself up. It's not like you're trying out for the football team, you flip a switch and go boom.

But hilarious he's got a Q and A section.

Remember though, most suicide bombers don't even know they're going to blow themselves up. Plus, they're not even really considered part of Al Qaeda, they're just grunts. Uneducated, poor youths that are misled into thinking they're the tool of Allah's will. As in told if they push a button when they're at a certain point that the judgment of Allah will decide what happens(and they're not told that there's another trigger held by someone else in the cell in case they don't push the button)
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Tamanon said:
Remember though, most suicide bombers don't even know they're going to blow themselves up. Plus, they're not even really considered part of Al Qaeda, they're just grunts. Uneducated, poor youths that are misled into thinking they're the tool of Allah's will. As in told if they push a button when they're at a certain point that the judgment of Allah will decide what happens(and they're not told that there's another trigger held by someone else in the cell in case they don't push the button)
Oh, please. Don't try and tell me that in 2000 fucking 8 that these people don't understand what's going on. There may be some cases like that were the bomber doesn't actually have the ability to turn back but it's not like every operation is some highly trained group with sophisticated detonators. Besides, they may be uneducated by our standards but I don't think that makes them stupid or any less capable than anyone else when it comes to making a decision like that.

Everyone on the planet is educated enough to the point where they can make a rational decision to either live with someone or fight against them, us claiming that they do this because they're uneducated is just a way for us to pretend that they're not doing it because they frankly just don't agree with us. We're living in some stupid bubble where we think if they just had more knowledge that they'd run up and bring flowers instead of bombs, how insulting to them that is. If there were just more schools they'd hate us less. Right. That's it exactly. As long as we keep thinking that this conflict will last forever.
 

Tamanon

Banned
mAcOdIn said:
Oh, please. Don't try and tell me that in 2000 fucking 8 that these people don't understand what's going on. There may be some cases like that were the bomber doesn't actually have the ability to turn back but it's not like every operation is some highly trained group with sophisticated detonators. Besides, they may be uneducated by our standards but I don't think that makes them stupid or any less capable than anyone else when it comes to making a decision like that.

Everyone on the planet is educated enough to the point where they can make a rational decision to either live with someone or fight against them, us claiming that they do this because they're uneducated is just a way for us to pretend that they're not doing it because they frankly just don't agree with us. We're living in some stupid bubble where we think if they just had more knowledge that they'd run up and bring flowers instead of bombs, how insulting to them that is. If there were just more schools they'd hate us less. Right. That's it exactly. As long as we keep thinking that this conflict will last forever.

No offense, but you've got a rather silly view of the world. Next are you going to say they hate us for our freedom?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JVTFJQ6SL._SS500_.jpg

Educate yourself a tad.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Tamanon said:
No offense, but you've got a rather silly view of the world. Next are you going to say they hate us for our freedom?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JVTFJQ6SL._SS500_.jpg

Educate yourself a tad.
No, I don't think they hate us because of freedom, I'm saying that the world refuses to acknowledge that area as their equal. Of course you have people manipulating them, just as our governments and ideas manipulate us.

The problem is, is that many of these countries DO have a reason to be against us, that if we never gave them no amount of manipulation would have ever been able to breed so much hate. The fact that so many people think so many people on that side of the world are so fucking stupid that they can't think for themselves or decide their future for themselves is part of the problem. Also, considering the fact that within this movement, you also have many well educated Muslims also taking part in it, albeit it not usually playing the role of suicide bomber), doesn't that further lend credence to my statement that it's not about education at all?

Look. Of course there are many being used by the leaders of their respective movements for their own purposes who are not fully aware of the situation, but my argument is that they are aware enough that we can't blame it on lack of education and that we have to accept the fact that they ally themselves with these organizations of their own free will.

Edit: But anyways this is a fun argument, since you've seen a movie I'm sure you already know all there is, and maybe you even read a book as well, so obviously any discussion with you puts me at a distinct disadvantage.
 

Tamanon

Banned
I never said otherwise, we're talking about the bombers, not the people who actually plan everything. Education is how you circumvent blind hate. That's all we were discussing, not terrorism in totality. That of course is fueled by more than a lack of education, but the grunts come from lack of education, the brains don't.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Tamanon said:
I never said otherwise, we're talking about the bombers, not the people who actually plan everything. Education is how you circumvent blind hate. That's all we were discussing, not terrorism in totality. That of course is fueled by more than a lack of education, but the grunts come from lack of education, the brains don't.

My argument is that the people blowing themselves up are educated enough to know what they're doing and be there of their own accord. Education is not how you circumvent blind hate, that's a conceited view that we in the west have created, a sad form of superiority complex that we seem to have developed after we got over our skin color and religion.
There are plenty of uneducated and impoverished people around the globe who haven't created terrorist groups and blow people up.

This whole education is the problem argument was created so we could feel sorry for those who do this and look at them in a more compassionate light. To put it more simply, that's said so that we don't hate the people but the organizations, and so we don't dehumanize those who do those acts. That's a good side effect of this charade yes, but I like to think that most of us are mature enough to at least recognize our adversaries claims and grievances and afford them respect as a human being even though they're against us and in some cases want to kill us without thinking that they've all been tricked. These arguments basically keep us from addressing the real cause of terrorism that eventually we are going to have to face. Some of their gripes we'll be able to meet, some not so much, but until we admit that it's not just class or education, but that there's also legitimate(in their eyes) things that they want done from us we're not going to be able to move forward.


Edit: The only way I buy the education argument is either if we assume Atheism or Christianity equals educated, in which case we're still lying to ourselves.
 
It was all an excuse for a kill count and power trip. Now, some of the "code" is being seen as an impediment to hyperidealistic chemically imbalanced types who sport two X chromosomes. Hilarity ensues as the two pillars of fundy Islam collide.
 
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