Support NeoGAF

[Spike Spiegel]

This ties into a previous thread, linked here. And, as some of you have probably figured out by now from the above preview pages (courtesy of Comics Continuum), Peter is NOT the father of Gwen's children who are currently trying to kill him. But the truth about who really IS the father is even more shocking, and more stomach-wrenching.

Are you ready?

The father of Gwen's children is none other than...

*MAJOR SPOILER*

Spoiler

F*cking Norman Osborn.

I sh*t you not. Now how sick, and twisted, and f*cked up is that? Can you imagine how Peter feels right now?

Spoiler

Not only does he find out his greatest archenemy, Norman Osborn, the f*cking Green Goblin, sexed up the love of his life, he also fathered two children with her. And, AND... he may have been her first time, too.

And apparently MJ knew all this time, but couldn't bring herself to tell him.

Seriously, I got sick to my stomach when I read this. This is just too f*cking much.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

LAME. YOU LOSE NOMOMENT.

 

[karasu]

What's up with Soap Opera shit?

 

[DarienA]

That's pretty crazy... and twisted.... and somehow hilariously funny... I've enjoyed Straczynski's run on Amazing... Amazing is the only Spider book I read now and it's only because I've enjoyed his plots... but this one.... man please tell me this was an edict handed down... please don't tell me he came up with this himself.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

so gwen went downstairs to tlak to harry's father and next thing you know she's pregnant? ................ pffft.

 

[Dan]

What's up with Soap Opera shit?

Seriously. This is why I gave up on comics so long ago. They're all so ridiculously and unnecessarily complicated. Writers seem to think this crap is "adult" or "mature" but it's really just stupid.

Spoiler

Gwen: Mr Osborne, we really need to take Harry to the hospital.
Norman: Hmm, only if we have unprotected sex. Now.
Gwen: Sure, why not.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

so gwen went downstairs to tlak to harry's father and next thing you know she's pregnant? ................ pffft.

Spoiler tags, please.

Spoiler

No, she'd had the kids months before this flashback takes place. MJ goes downstairs and eavesdrops, and hears Gwen and Norman arguing about the twins kids. Norman's all, "they're my children, they're Osborns, they're my heirs, they're special, give them to me," and Gwen's all like "you'll never get your hands on them, I've given them up for adoption, I don't know what I saw in you," etc. etc.

 

[nomoment]

Dudes. Dudes. Dudes. Let's read the issue first, then complain!

But yeah, this is pretty fucked up. And it totally screws up the legacy of Gwen Stacy... ugh.

I have faith in JMS, though. We'll just have to wait and see. There's still two issues left, you know.

 

[SickBoy]

I know I'm going to get flamed to a crisp for this, but I was under the impression comics had supposedly improved in the past few years.

When I see stuff like this, I have to ask myself why I've even toyed with the idea of collecting again.

-SB

 

[karasu]

Err, this does not represent ALL comics. 0_o

 

[SickBoy]

Err, this does not represent ALL comics. 0_o

I never meant to suggest that, but it does concern me when I see this sort of thing from what I would expect to be Marvel's flagship title. I would expect graphic novels or independent stuff to be a better way to go.

-SB

 

[Dan]

Err, this does not represent ALL comics. 0_o

No, but combine this and the info from that current X-Men thread, and well, at the very least Marvel's gone crazy.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Hahahaha, I was just looking at the old thread, and it turns out shoplifter wasn't too far off the mark.

[stan lee explanation]

Spoiler

Peter's super-powered genetics aged them super quickly.

[/stan lee explanation]

Spoiler

Right explanation, wrong guy. Norman's mutated genes from the Goblin Serum have given the twins superpowers, and are causing them to age prematurely.

"Stan Lee explanation" indeed. :lol

 

[Shinobi]

:lol That's the coolest and most fucked up comic twist ever. Hey, some people love to say how Marvel rules cause the characters aren't perfect...well, you can add Gwen to the imperfect list. :lol I might be the only person in the world who's enjoyed the previous three comics, so forgive me for not being as negative as some of you (not saying you've got no reason to be either...maybe I'm just fucked in the head :lol).

 

[nomoment]

I might be the only person in the world who's enjoyed the previous three comics, so forgive me for not being as negative as some of you (not saying you've got no reason to be either...maybe I'm just fucked in the head :lol).

I've enjoyed the previous three issues of this arc. JMS has weaved together a great story.

 

[nomoment]

BUT, let me add. It's totally fucked up for Gwen to not bump uglies with Peter "Ultimate Nice Guy" Parker EVEN ONCE, only to jump "you know who's" bones.

That's messed up. Imagine the virginal girl next door leaving town to score with Osama Bin Laden. It just doesn't make sense... yet.

I'm confident JMS will resolve this well, though.

 

[Littleberu]

So now Gwen is a whore? Nice.

 

[nomoment]

So now Gwen is a whore? Nice.

Maybe she was drugged? (Please, let this be true.)

We've still got two more issues to find out exactly what happened!

 

[Shinobi]

Who knows...maybe Norman told her who he and Peter really are, and said he was gonna crucify him, and she offered to give herself up in order to save his life. Makes me wonder if I'd want my girl to do that for me.

 

[Seth C]

Dudes. Dudes. Dudes. Let's read the issue first, then complain!

But yeah, this is pretty fucked up. And it totally screws up the legacy of Gwen Stacy... ugh.

I have faith in JMS, though. We'll just have to wait and see. There's still two issues left, you know.

Mmm, the spider gift, or spider power, or whatever crap. Yeah, JMS. Crap from the beginning.

 

[Rorschach]

LAME. YOU LOSE NOMOMENT.

IAWTP

Jebus. I liked what JMS was doing with Amazing, but this is rediculous. I don't think even he can fix this.

 

[BigJonsson]

WHAT THE FUCK

 

[FoneBone]

Retconning sucks.

 

[MASB]

:lol That's the coolest and most fucked up comic twist ever. Hey, some people love to say how Marvel rules cause the characters aren't perfect...well, you can add Gwen to the imperfect list. :lol

I think that's the problem with comics nowadays. The characters are a little too imperfect. Especially since the 80's/early 90's, angst has increasingly been the order of the day. Most comic book characters make Angel seem carefree.

Retconning sucks.

Most of the time, yes. Especially when for certain characters/universes, it happens every three or four years or less.

 

[Dujour]

Damn, and I was thinking about collecting spiderman again. Forget that, this is waay worse than the clone saga. At least it ended well.

 

[nomoment]

Forget that, this is waay worse than the clone saga. At least it ended well.

Haha, I hope you're being sarcastic.

 

[belgurdo]

Retconning sucks.

Damn straight. Thank God for manga

 

[etiolate]

Is marvel just letting slash fic writers do their comics now? They already fucked up Nightcrawler.

 

[BuddyC]

I was a fan of the arc until the last issue ended with MJ's "I know who the father is.."

This just...even I don't like it. Still, I'll wait till the end before JMS incurs my wrath.

 

[RiZ III]

Ok Ive been out of the comic world for a long ass time now. I got 2 stupid questions.

1) Gwen is actually dead right, or did they bring her back to life?

2) Wasnt Mary Jane pregnant like 6 years ago? What happened with that. She was pregnant for like 2 years.

 

[Shinobi]

1) Gwen is dead. Probably the only comic character that's stayed that way.:lol

2) MJ gave birth to a child, which was then secretly taken away to Norman Osbourne. Meanwhile she was told the baby was DOA. This all happened at the conclusion of the Clone Saga, so none of these events have ever been refered to by the comics that followed...it's become the ultimate comic taboo. Though maybe this new story will wear that moniker. :lol

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Maybe she was drugged? (Please, let this be true.)

We've still got two more issues to find out exactly what happened!

I really wish that was the case, but...

Spoiler

Sorry, nope. What I got was that this was some sort of consensual pity lay. Norman was vulnerable and wrought with grief over... something (Harry -related I think), and while trying to console him Gwen was seduced by his... vulnerability and charm and power, and it just happened.

It's totally messed up.

There's a moment in this issue when

Spoiler

Peter is trying to choke out the question "was he her first time?" to MJ, while envisioning the sex act in his head, and the thought of it just drives him nuts, and (in a scene right outta the William Shatner acting playbook) he screams "OSBORN!!!!!!one!!!one!!!" and starts wrecking their apartment.

It's super-creepy, seeing

Spoiler

Gwen Stacy, Peter's angel, writhing and moaning under the body of Norman Osborn.

Enough to make you wanna strangle JMS for putting that thought into Peter's (and readers') heads.

Sick.

 

[Apharmd Battler]

I may have to sit down and read this stuff.....tlak about crazy?!

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Anyone think there's some truth to this notion that Marvel is deliberately trying to tarnish the "pure" image of Gwen Stacy, to cement MJ's status as Peter's TRUE true love as some kinda tie-in to the movies and other media representations of Spider-Man?

 

[Kola]

I'm seriously thinking about buying this storyline. Which issues do I need to read all about the complete Gwen story?

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Well, "Sins Past" is a 6-part story, so... #509-514. Marvel's pretty fast with the turnaround for TPBs though, so you'll probably be able to pick up the entire story as a trade in January or February.

 

[Rorschach]

Spoiler

and (in a scene right outta the William Shatner acting playbook) he screams "OSBORN!!!!!!one!!!one!!!" and starts wrecking their apartment.

:lol :lol

 

[Shinobi]

Heh, I really don't see the problem with it. Again, people can't have it both ways...if the whole reason why Marvel characters rule is because they're imperfect, then the same people can't bitch about a once near-perfect character like Gwen becoming impure or imperfect. When it comes to imperfection, you've gotta take the bitter with the sweet...no matter how bad that bitter tastes.

Now if there's an issue of logic (or lack thereof), I could understand that ticking people off...and the kids growing up at record speed simply because they were created with Norman's seed seems pretty silly. But that's the only issue I've got with it.

 

[DDayton]

I think I prefer the days of single-story-per-book... bah. Marvel was the first to toss THAT idea out the window.

 

[Dan]

Heh, I really don't see the problem with it. Again, people can't have it both ways...if the whole reason why Marvel characters rule is because they're imperfect, then the same people can't bitch about a once near-perfect character like Gwen becoming impure or imperfect. When it comes to imperfection, you've gotta take the bitter with the sweet...no matter how bad that bitter tastes.

I think people are more upset about the degree to which Marvel is imperfecting Gwen, and not simply about there being a change at all. Making the leap to her having Norman's children is a pretty freakin' huge leap.

 

[nomoment]

Anyone think there's some truth to this notion that Marvel is deliberately trying to tarnish the "pure" image of Gwen Stacy, to cement MJ's status as Peter's TRUE true love as some kinda tie-in to the movies and other media representations of Spider-Man?

I think you're right on the money -- Marvel needs to protect their movie properties.

It's a shame nobody remembers how much of a superficial ditz MJ used to be.

I think I prefer the days of single-story-per-book... bah. Marvel was the first to toss THAT idea out the window.

That's not completely accurate. I don't think anybody can really pin-point exactly when the "story arc" was introduced. It was definitely a long time ago, though.

 

[Dan]

It's a shame nobody remembers how much of a superficial ditz MJ used to be.

That version lives on in the movies as far as I can tell.

 

[Dujour]

I'm done with Marvel for the next few years. I'm sticking to Batman.

/me shakes head.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Forgive me, because I really don't follow comics much...

How could Gwen have hooked up with Norman Osbourne (post-GG), had two kids, given them up, and then died? Theres no where near enough time for all of that.

Like I said, I'm not a huge fan of the comic but I know a little about it and this seems like the most contrived thing I've ever heard. Its freaking laughable. The real fans must be REALLY pissed.

Edit: Norman Osbourne is still alive? How/when did that happen?

 

[DDayton]

That's not completely accurate. I don't think anybody can really pin-point exactly when the "story arc" was introduced. It was definitely a long time ago, though.

I was under the impression that Kirby and Marvel really got it going, and that everyone else followed suit.

 

[FortNinety]

I more glad than ever that I stopped reading Spider Man years ago (right before the Clone Saga crap).

 

[Shinobi]

Forgive me, because I really don't follow comics much...

How could Gwen have hooked up with Norman Osbourne (post-GG), had two kids, given them up, and then died? Theres no where near enough time for all of that.

She got knocked up by Norman prior to the whole bridge thing. I'm not sure about the exact timeline, but Harry was in a coma from a drug OD when the sinful deed took place.

 

[nomoment]

An Open Letter to J. Michael Straczynski

And yes, he decided to attach the page where Norman deflowers Gwen. Ew.

 

[Rorschach]

Disgusting. When I first saw the image, I thought "Ew Osbourne's O face!" Then I read the caption.

How do you feel about the story at this point, Nomoment?

 

[Dujour]

This renders every good Gwen story useless and taints them in such a way that make them unreadable. I'll say it again, this is on the same level of the clone saga. Spider-Man: Blue? WORTHLESS!