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American actors are wimps

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says this article

U.S. short on tough guy actors
Filmmakers turn to U.K., Australia for action stars
By ANNE THOMPSON


Where have the manly movie stars gone?
Not so long ago, Hollywood’s male stars were men’s men. Think John Wayne, Robert Mitchum, Humphrey Bogart and Steve McQueen.

Over the decades, that generation has given way to the likes of Johnny Depp, Keanu Reeves, Brendan Fraser and Tom Cruise.

Casting the titular tough-guy New York hero of his upcoming adaptation of “The Spirit,” Frank Miller also had trouble finding the right actor.

“Hollywood is great at producing male actors, but sucks at producing men,” says Miller. “I found them all too much like boys.” (He hired New York TV actor Gabriel Macht, 36.)


“We spend a lot of time in the industry talking about that issue,” says Robert Relyea, who produced movies for McQueen and wrote “Not So Quiet on the Set: My Life in Movies During Hollywood’s Macho Era.” “My directors always tried to seek out people who had ‘it,’ which does not exist today. You’ve got copycats trying to be McQueen. They don’t get it.”

These days, studios are hard-pressed to find home-grown traditional male leads to carry their pictures. Their star rosters include countless boy-men who even after they turn 40 are less than credible macho movie stars. Depp powered the “Pirates” franchise with a fey perf that was more fussy Marlon Brando than athletic Errol Flynn.

Even with “The Matrix” series behind him, Reeves is still often defined by “Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure” and other wayward youth roles. He was less than believable as a doctor in “Something’s Gotta Give.” That’s because he’s a boy-man.

So is goofy Fraser, who aged from a boyish “George of the Jungle” to a boyish mummy-fighting father in “The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.”

“In a global culture, so what if the tough guys come from another country?” asks producer Sean Daniel, who padded “Mummy” with Hong Kong action stars Jet Li and Michele Yeoh. “It’s one big movie culture.”

Not atypically, the year’s top-grossing film, “The Dark Knight,” stars Brits Christian Bale and Michael Caine alongside the late Heath Ledger, from Down Under.

Even New Yorker Woody Allen is drawing his male stars from Europe, with Spain’s Javier Bardem in “Vicky Cristina Barcelona,” Britain’s Ian McShane in “Scoop” and Scotland’s Ewan McGregor and Ireland's Colin Farrell in “Cassandra’s Dream.”

These days, when John Travolta or Ben Affleck aren’t the right fit for a big actioner, the studios often turn to the likes of rugged Aussies Mel Gibson and Russell Crowe, whose perfs can range from both scary and dangerous to powerful and tender. Affleck, like original Jack Ryan Alec Baldwin, could have used a boost from more Tom Clancy installments after “The Sum of All Fears,” but the studio is going another way.

Even comicbook superheroes are boy-men — Brandon Routh as Superman, Edward Norton the Hulk and Tobey Maguire Spider-Man — unless they’re from another country, like Brits Bale (Batman) and “X-Men” stars Ian McKellen (Magneto) and Patrick Stewart (Professor X), or Aussie Hugh Jackman (Wolverine). And while Will Smith played post-apocalyptic hero in “I Am Legend,” his “Hancock” is a post-modern superhero, an alcoholic homeless man — not the stuff of myth and legend.

Two of the top rising action stars right now are both from the U.K.: “300” star Gerard Butler and Jason Statham (“Death Race”).

“We all wish there were five more guys like Jason Statham,” says producer Mark Gill. “There’s no shortage of roles for them. There’s a shortage of guys who can plausibly do them. The more expensive the budget, the narrower the list.”

When James Cameron was casting “Avatar,” he found Sam Worthington, now 32, in Australia, and also recommended him to McG for “Terminator Salvation,” as one of the few young actors who could stand up to Bale’s John Connor.


Where did America’s tough guys go?

Along with stars in the classic mold like Charles Bronson and Charlton Heston, the ’50s and ’60s brought more self-conscious method acting, men who revealed their sensitive side, like Brando, Jack Nicholson, Robert De Niro, Paul Newman, Robert Redford and Warren Beatty. These men explored irony, questioned authority and knew how to engage with a psychotherapist.

With the Me Generation came the move toward impishly rebellious Peter Pans: Steve Martin, Chevy Chase, Bill Murray, Dan Aykroyd, Eddie Murphy and John Belushi.

Of course, movie stars are a reflection of their times and culture. Ours is no longer the era of straight-ahead nationalism. Americans question everything, including authority. And they have never been more anxious about staying young.

“It’s like the crisis of the American male,” says screenwriter Kirsten Smith (“The House Bunny”). “We just can’t find a real man.”

For his part, Cruise seems to be trying to pick roles that will deepen his gravitas. But when he played a doctor in “Eyes Wide Shut” and a U.S. senator in “Lions for Lambs,” he seemed out of his league. Now he’s trying again, as a German World War II hero in “Valkyrie.”


Recently, Cruise ran into resistance at Warners when he sought to play a maverick third-party president in “The 28th Amendment.” Instead, the studio wanted Cruise to play the prexy’s ally, a burned-out special forces operative who helps him overcome a shadow government. The star deemed the part too close to “Mission: Impossible.”

“I truly thought Tom would be great in the role of an outsider elected to the highest office,” says director Phil Noyce. “The studio wanted to explore further possibilities for the president, including Denzel.” For them, it was about finding the right balance between the two leads, in a very high-budget political thriller.”

Washington declined the part, but he’s one of the few American stars who can carry a movie as a president. He’s on the short list of in-demand Hollywood stars — all well over 50 — who define larger-than-life heroic masculinity. The others are Harrison Ford, Bruce Willis, Morgan Freeman, Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones.

Most American drama stars gain authority with age —Smith, Matt Damon, Leonardo DiCaprio, Brad Pitt, George Clooney and Nic Cage are all seasoning well — but just what did a star like McQueen have that today’s lack?

“Steve felt less was better,” says Relyea, “Less lines, less everything. In ‘The Magnificent Seven’ when he was going up Boot Hill, he took out a shotgun shell and shook it by his ear. He did it so well you believed it. If someone does it today they make it a three-act play and it’s phony. These guys had a masculinity and toughness that came across. McQueen didn’t give a damn who his makeup man was. It’s not fashionable for actors to be all-American men now; they have to be strange and different.”

Which is perhaps one explanation for the surprise success of AMC’s “Mad Men”: Star Jon Hamm reminds auds what ’60s stars used to be like: laconic, mysterious … and masculine.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117991319.html?categoryid=2508&cs=1
 

Davidion

Member
American men act tough, foreigners complain they're too macho. American men act sensitive, women complain they're not macho enough.

Can't win. :lol
 

Gig

One man's junk is another man's treasure
Hey, we have "manly" actors, it's just that all their movies suck.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Sam Worthington is an awesome actor. James Cameron hit a goldmine when he cast him.

Davidion said:
American men act tough, foreigners complain they're too macho.
There's a difference between acting tough and talking tough. That's where the whole "American? You arrogant SOB" stigma came from.

here we are:

“Steve felt less was better,” says Relyea, “Less lines, less everything. In ‘The Magnificent Seven’ when he was going up Boot Hill, he took out a shotgun shell and shook it by his ear. He did it so well you believed it.
 

fushi

Member
Jon_176306t.jpg


20060918184731!The_Wire_Jimmy_McNulty.jpg
 
Stoney Mason said:
AMC’s “Mad Men”: Star Jon Hamm reminds auds what ’60s stars used to be like: laconic, mysterious … and masculine.
Well, I definitely agree with this. I've thought the same thing.
 

Davidion

Member
speedpop said:
There's a difference between acting tough and talking tough. That's where the whole "American? You arrogant SOB" stigma came from.

here we are:

:lol I know, I was being somewhat facetious.

Although, there are a lot of mixed messages sent out to American males regarding what it's like to "be a man", and it tends to fall into one extreme or another. Joking as I was, you do get a somewhat black and white message of what it means to be a guy in this country.
 
To be honest I think it has more to do with the types of movies that are being made. Outside of Batman most comic book movies are aimed at kids so the heroes aren't really badasses in the way they use to be. Plus R rated action movies aren't in vogue like they were in the 80's so you just don't have this crop of ass kicking action stars. Modern american stars want to be like Will Smith, Tom Cruise, or Tom Hanks which means a variety of roles including stuff like romantic comedies and shit.

If they made more movies like say Bourne Identity then you would have more stars in that vein.
 

jax (old)

Banned
sam worthington is garbage - and I'm from australia. Pretty boy (to a degree) and wooden as fuck. He gets a lot of film roles here and almost every single role he plays is almost the same. You guys will understand when you see him in more films. He was fuck terrible in MACBETH and he was the lead. Absolutley dreadful

Whats the difference Sam Worthington and a piece of wood? Nothing.

Dull.



THere are lots of "men's' men actors in the US. I'm suprised they can't do open casting.



one explanation for the surprise success of AMC’s “Mad Men”: Star Jon Hamm reminds auds what ’60s stars used to be like: laconic, mysterious … and masculine.

this is true though.

um, that greeky looking MANGOD from lost (the one who shows up to show John Locke things to chose for the future) is quite masculine as well.
 

Monroeski

Unconfirmed Member
speedpop said:
Sam Worthington is an awesome actor. James Cameron hit a goldmine when he cast him.


There's a difference between acting tough and talking tough. That's where the whole "American? You arrogant SOB" stigma came from.

here we are:
Left out the best part of the quote imo -

TFA said:
“Steve felt less was better,” says Relyea, “Less lines, less everything. In ‘The Magnificent Seven’ when he was going up Boot Hill, he took out a shotgun shell and shook it by his ear. He did it so well you believed it. If someone does it today they make it a three-act play and it’s phony.
 

Az

Member
these days even the rugged unshaved look takes stars hours to achieve... everything is so fake these days...
 

Gig

One man's junk is another man's treasure
This article was a stretch to begin (who the hell wants to put Travolta in an action movie?), but then it hypes up the manliness of 1960's era stars, nothing tops the masculinity and badassness of 1980's action stars.
 

Ceres

Banned
They must have missed Hugh Jackman in Kate & Leopold or his Broadway roles. Or Christian Bale in Little Women. I'm not exactly sure what's so different about these guys from someone like Brad Pitt besides how much they get a paycheck. I think Jason Stathman is one of the few you can honestly say is a "real man" but then, most of his movies are shit so.....
 

fushi

Member
Davidion said:
I don't know about the Mad Men guy (that is where he's from, right?) but I trust you do realize that Dominin West/McNulty is born and bred in the UK.
I do, actually, but... yeah, I guess he doesn't fit here :lol

He just pops into my head whenever I think of masculine actors who speak English.
 

Gig

One man's junk is another man's treasure
Ceres said:
They must have missed Hugh Jackman in Kate & Leopold or his Broadway roles. Or Christian Bale in Little Women. I'm not exactly sure what's so different about these guys from someone like Brad Pitt besides how much they get a paycheck. I think Jason Stathman is one of the few you can honestly say is a "real man" but then, most of his movies are shit so.....

Don't forget Newsies.
 

Osaka

Did not ask for this tag
Davidion said:
I don't know about the Mad Men guy (that is where he's from, right?) but I trust you do realize that Dominin West/McNulty is born and bred in the UK.

Jimmy McNulty is a character in The Wire..
 

WrikaWrek

Banned
Damn, it is true.

Badass dudes come from outside of the states. But who cares where the actors come from anyway? wtf
 
I somewhat agree with that article. Whenever I think of a recent movie tough guy, Daniel Draig comes to mind as the ultimate badass. Muscles, acting skills, charisma




and what do Americans have? This

the-marine-4.jpg
 

JimiNutz

Banned
It's about striking a balance. 'The Rock,' Vin Diesel, are too macho/cheesy, the best actors are the ones that manage to portray a blend of good looks, and toughness, with a touch of intelligence. These men exist in Hollywood at the moment but it seems as if most of them are coming out of the UK or Australia (Bale, Butler, West, Jackman etc.) America isn't at a total loss though and Willis and Pitt are still awesome, don't think much of the Hartnett’s, Gyllenhaal's, and LeBeouf’s though.

Edit: Also I'm not arguing that Bale, Butler, Jackman are real men while Gyllenhaal, Hartnett are not, I'm just saying that the first group is able to portray a tougher character while the others cannot.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
SupahBlah said:

Mortenson is a good pick but I'm still not sold on Damon playing a tough guy. I absolutely loved the Bourne movies but really it was due to the action and storyline rather than Damon‘s performances. I simply cannot get over the baby face and don't think he is able to act tough enough to make me forget I'm looking at Matt Damon.
 

Staccat0

Fail out bailed
I dont see a problem here. Can Clive Owen not do an American accent?
Just get the aussies and euros to do a fake accent. Manufacture them as stars with marketing and then American actors will rise up from the rubble themselves to compete.

Matt Damon simply isnt a very good actor anymore. I look at the guy and I only ever see Matt Damon. I never beleive him in his roles regardless of the movies quality.

Viggo has done some terrible roles, but I think hes an okay actor.
 
Staccat0 said:
I dont see a problem here. Can Clive Owen not do an American accent?
Just get the aussies and euros to do a fake accent. Manufacture them as stars with marketing and then American actors will rise up from the rubble themselves to compete.


ins't it happening already?
 

Dyno

Member
This is happening society-wide in North America, not just in the movie business but in everyday life as well. Mainstream men are dolling themselves up like women.

It started with getting into good shape and this was alright because it at least was grounded in athleticism. It went too far however with body shaving, hair and skin products galore, and even make-up. Now instead of looking like atheletes they look like underwear models and even worse, glistening little callboys.

Men used to look like they were made for work. Now they look like they're made for pleasure. Watching some v-necked douche with lip gloss go aggro at a bar is laughable these days.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
There are no manly actors because most actors who make it anywhere do so with an enormous support structure of studio and marketing support. Most of those were former child actors - raised to be appealing and non threatening to girls - and most of those are girlyman shebitches.

QED.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Staccat0 said:
I dont see a problem here. Can Clive Owen not do an American accent?
Just get the aussies and euros to do a fake accent. Manufacture them as stars with marketing and then American actors will rise up from the rubble themselves to compete.

Matt Damon simply isnt a very good actor anymore. I look at the guy and I only ever see Matt Damon. I never beleive him in his roles regardless of the movies quality.

Viggo has done some terrible roles, but I think hes an okay actor.
Watch Eastern Promises. He is fucking terrific in that one (and more than a wee scary)
 

Weenerz

Banned
The actors aren't the only ones becoming too soft, just go to a public place and see how people are. It's disgusting.
 
isn't it just bad casting?... are they even looking?.. they usually just try to book the guy that brings in the most money. it's hard to believe there are no tough guys in the u.s.a. with acting skills... i just think they are afraid to take a gamble (or investors are)
 

Ceres

Banned
Gig said:
Don't forget Newsies.

Oops.. Yeah.. Probably my favorite movie growing up too.




The problem isn't that there aren't "real men" action stars. The problem is that there aren't many who can actually act that portray what this article says is missing. Stathman at times seems like he has that ability but he keeps taking the same roles over and over again. This is why people like Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale are good at what they do but Vin Diesel is not. Samuel L. Jackson will take any role put in front of him so there's little hope for him to ever get out of the cheesy film rut.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
Dyno said:
This is happening society-wide in North America, not just in the movie business but in everyday life as well. Mainstream men are dolling themselves up like women.

It started with getting into good shape and this was alright because it at least was grounded in athleticism. It went too far however with body shaving, hair and skin products galore, and even make-up. Now instead of looking like atheletes they look like underwear models and even worse, glistening little callboys.

Men used to look like they were made for work. Now they look like they're made for pleasure. Watching some v-necked douche with lip gloss go aggro at a bar is laughable these days.

The funny thing is that as far as I know this has been happening in Europe for years and American men are only just beginning to embrace this now, yet Europe still seems to produce the so called 'manly' actors.
 

jax (old)

Banned
Anasui Kishibe said:
ins't it happening already?

watch DECEPTION with ewan (who I think is a man's man - how many hollywood actors takes time out to motorbike across china/asia?) and hugh jackman... both of them do such hammy yankers in this one .... that I just kind of ... :lol :lol Ewan has a terrible american accent. He hamed it up like he did in Moulin Rouge.

on, hugh jackman. Best aussie import. He picks great roles - Prestige and Fountain are 2 of my favourite films and they both came out in the last 2 years? There's a diversification of his career.







the problem wtih american male leads however is the derth of "serious" male roles for young male leads - almost all the roles are stupid/teen/rom com/covenant type shit with no avenue to allow for the casting of serious young male leads of the mature variety. I think the male lead in Pushing Daisies (despite it comedic quality) is quite masculine.


Ashton Kutcher and Josh harnett? THe reason why the US has to look outside for these actors is because its industry perpetuates youth idoltry.
 

K0NY

Member
The problem with real tough guys is that they suck as actors. Since they are so tough, nobody is willing to give them criticism to improve their acting for fear of getting beat up. So directors are forced to choose between pansies that can fake toughness or tough guys who can fake acting. It really is a tough choice.
 
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