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Amnesty International: EU deal on Migrants a death blow to the right to seek asylum.

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T

Tak3n

Banned
The deal last night on the Migrants crisis has been deemed potentially Illegal in International law by the UN and Amnesty International called the plan a death blow to the right to seek asylum.It basically means any Migrants in Greece will now be returned to Turkey and in return 1 migrant per one returned currently in Turkey will get a resettlement in the EU.

Also huge for Turkey as their citizens will get visa fee travel to the EU by June as part of the agreement

The UN has expressed concern over a radical EU-Turkey plan to ease the migrant crisis, saying it could contravene international law.
Under the plan, all migrants arriving in Greece from Turkey would be returned and for each Syrian sent back, a Syrian in Turkey would be resettled in the EU.
The UN's refugee agency said any collective expulsion of foreigners was "not consistent with European law".
Amnesty International called the plan a death blow to the right to seek asylum.
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All new irregular migrants crossing from Turkey to the Greek islands will be returned to Turkey, with the EU meeting the costs. Irregular migrants means all those outside normal transit procedures, ie without documentation. The term "illegal migration" usually refers to people smuggling
In exchange for every returned Syrian, one Syrian from Turkey will be resettled in the EU
Plans to ease access to the EU for Turkish citizens will be speeded up, with a view to allowing visa-free travel by June 2016
EU payment of €3bn ($3.3bn; £2.2bn) promised in October will be speeded up, and a decision will be made on additional funding to help Turkey deal with the crisis. Turkey reportedly asked for EU aid to be increased to €6bn
Preparations will be made for a decision on the opening of new chapters in talks on EU membership for Turkey
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35754738
 
B

Beefy

Member
Sarek said:
Isn't one the biggest worries of the out campaign too many immigrants though?
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Migrants will still come. But with the deal, Turkish people can now go to the UK as they will be part of the EU. Plus the UK have to send more cash to the EU.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Beefy said:
Man the shit happening in the EU is free PR for the out campaign.
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Yep. The UK is contributing £500m of this £4.6b, and we will be opening up new talks to extend the EU border to touch Iraq, Iran and Syria just as we're heading to the polls in June.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
A few years ago money used to put into building camps and housing in places like Lebanon and Jordan. Like with how stupid the numbers trying to get into Europe are what went wrong with this approach? It isn't ideal but it seems a lot better than people being sold snake oil and taking dangerous sea voyages.

Speaking of sea voyages we don't hear any news of the Libya route anymore?

Beefy said:
Man the shit happening in the EU is free PR for the out campaign.
Click to expand...
I have to ask. Why the fuck did Camoron decide this year was the time to have a referendum.
 
1

18-Volt

Member
gutter_trash said:
Turkey will get visa free travel to EU?

that is aweful news
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It is not. More than half of Turkey already have special passports to have visa-free travel to EU. This would change nothing.

Plus, the government is planning to implement some heavy taxes for traveling abroad to discourage that. Turkish tourism took heavy blow from bad Russian relations.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Enosh said:
I don't get it, what's the point of this?
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to help Greece and Turkey, to stop the death race across the ocean.... of course what we dont know is what happens when all the migrants have been retuned to Turkey, as once this gets out people will head to Turkey, but if there are none to 'swap' what happens then

but in a nutshell, if you are a migrant and you land in Greece, you will get sent back to Turkey
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Beefy said:
Migrants will still come. But with the deal, Turkish people can now go to the UK as they will be part of the EU.
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It doesn't make Turkey a member of the EU, and since UK isn't part of the Schengen space, those migrants won't be free to enter the UK as all the guys in the Calais jungle can illustrate.

Enosh said:
I don't get it, what's the point of this?
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Trading one illegal migrant for a legal one apparently. Makes it easier for EU, not sure what Turkey wins in that bargain.
 
T

Tak3n

Banned
Alx said:
It doesn't make Turkey a member of the EU, and since UK isn't part of the Schengen space, those migrants won't be free to enter the UK as all the guys in the Calais jungle can illustrate.



Trading one illegal migrant for a legal one apparently. Makes it easier for EU, not sure what Turkey wins in that bargain.
Click to expand...

The EU carrot, they promised to look more closely at membership
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
It's something... I believe there are measures to bring refugees from the camps in Turkey with some sort of priority system.

There needs to be some system in place. The current mess couldn't go on.
 
B

Beefy

Member
Alx said:
It doesn't make Turkey a member of the EU, and since UK isn't part of the Schengen space, those migrants won't be free to enter the UK as all the guys in the Calais jungle can illustrate.



Trading one illegal migrant for a legal one apparently. Makes it easier for EU, not sure what Turkey wins in that bargain.
Click to expand...

EU is basically bribing Turkey with cash and EU status to make them keep loads of migrants. They won't change their mind.
 
D

Dabanton

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
I have to ask. Why the fuck did Camoron decide this year was the time to have a referendum.
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IIRC he promised to have the vote the year after any election victory and as a way to get it out the way early in his term, that's now looking like a huge mistake.
 
J

jimbobsmells

Member
This is like pouring fuel on the fire for the Brexit campaign. I can see the daily mail comments now... 'Cameron negotiates for months and gets nothing, Turkey walk in demanding an extra 3bn and the EU cave' etc. I'd love to see the opinion polls after this.
 
P

Pandy

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
A few years ago money used to put into building camps and housing in places like Lebanon and Jordan. Like with how stupid the numbers trying to get into Europe are what went wrong with this approach? It isn't ideal but it seems a lot better than people being sold snake oil and taking dangerous sea voyages.

Speaking of sea voyages we don't hear any news of the Libya route anymore?


I have to ask. Why the fuck did Camoron decide this year was the time to have a referendum.
Click to expand...
I've seen nothing that suggests he actively wants a 'Remain' vote.

Cameron is putting up such a hilariously weak defense of the EU, after deliberately undermining it with all that talk of 'negotiating a better deal', that I can't help but see it as a way for him and his buddies to control both sides of the argument.

Call me cynical, etc.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Pandy said:
I've seen nothing that suggests he actively wants a 'Remain' vote.

Cameron is putting up such a hilariously weak defense of the EU, after deliberately undermining it with all that talk of 'negotiating a better deal', that I can't help but see it as a way for him and his buddies to control both sides of the argument.

Call me cynical, etc.
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I think "illogical" is more appropriate. Why would he possibly do that, given it would destroy his career?
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Pandy said:
I've seen nothing that suggests he actively wants a 'Remain' vote.

Cameron is putting up such a hilariously weak defense of the EU, after deliberately undermining it with all that talk of 'negotiating a better deal', that I can't help but see it as a way for him and his buddies to control both sides of the argument.

Call me cynical, etc.
Click to expand...

His attack dog Gove came out in favour of leaving...

Says it all really.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Pandy said:
I've seen nothing that suggests he actively wants a 'Remain' vote.

Cameron is putting up such a hilariously weak defense of the EU, after deliberately undermining it with all that talk of 'negotiating a better deal', that I can't help but see it as a way for him and his buddies to control both sides of the argument.

Call me cynical, etc.
Click to expand...

Miles Quaritch said:
His attack dog Gove came out in favour of leaving...

Says it all really.
Click to expand...

Ok so I think this is a conspiracy theory I've not heard before. You think David Cameron really does want us to leave the EU?

I think it's more likely that there was little scope for 'negotiation' at the 11th hour, the treaties being the treaties, combined with Dave being unpopular on the Council and a shit negotiator anyway. I never ascribe to malice what can be explained with simple incompetence.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Pandy said:
He's already said he's planning to stand down before the next General Election. So, which career?
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The one he has spent his whole life cultivating? The one where he lead his party from 13 years of wilderness to government, followed by a rabbit-out-of-a-hat majority five years later, kept the UK together, saw enormous employment gains, dragged the Conservative party into the 21st century etc etc. His entire legacy, even if he retired the day after the vote either way, would be destroyed if not only did we leave the EU but if he actively campaigned for us to stay and then we left the EU. His legacy would then be of a lucky PM who hung on as long as he could before a self-inflicted ploy to keep the UKIP dogs at bay lead to a second civil war on Europe in his party that showed not only his party desert him but also the country.

There's no way he'd perform a ploy like you're suggesting, it just doesn't make any sense. Even if he did want to leave and he did want "his people" on both sides of the argument, he's be on the "out" side.
 
N

nynt9

Member
gutter_trash said:
because Turkey supports ISIS and allows transit over the Syrian border of terrorists

fuck Turkey
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[citation needed]

Erdogan was likely very weak on ISIS and turned a blind eye to them for a while, but they are now in full on war against ISIS. Just today, ISIS shelled Turkey from across the Syrian border and killed people. Several people have been detained at the border over the past months for being ISIS operatives. Turkey is bombing ISIS.
 
P

patapuf

Member
On one hand, the approach of taking refugees directly from camps stops the afwul and risky trips refugees take to get to europe and it undermines the criminals that take all their wealth getting them there.

On the other hand it's clear that there will now probably be hard quotas on how many get to "get in". That's certainly a step back from the humanitarian ideals the EU wants (or wanted) to embody.

We'll see if the deal is even enforcable. Long term, "fortress Europe" will be hard to uphold, but it's clear that many EU countries want to at least try.


In other news, Erdogan can be happy with this deal, he got everything he wanted.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Ok so I think this is a conspiracy theory I've not heard before. You think David Cameron really does want us to leave the EU?

I think it's more likely that there was little scope for 'negotiation' at the 11th hour, the treaties being the treaties, combined with Dave being unpopular on the Council and a shit negotiator anyway. I never ascribe to malice what can be explained with simple incompetence.
Click to expand...

I don't believe he wants out. He doesn't want to be the prime minister who pulled the UK out of Europe. I think he's just towing a very thin line and doesn't want his party to fracture over this so we get people like Gove coming out strongly in favour of leaving as a message to the faithful.

What the message is up for interpretation.
 
H

HazySaiyan

Banned
Why are Turkey even been considered for EU membership with all the shit their government's being pulling? I mean didn't they just put a newspaper under state control less than a week ago? If that isn't an attack on free speech I don't know what is.
 
J

Joni

Member
HazySaiyan said:
Why are Turkey even been considered for EU membership with all the shit their government's being pulling? I mean didn't they just put a newspaper under state control less than a week ago? If that isn't an attack on free speech I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

They can be considered as long as necessary, they have been considered for decades.
 
P

Pandy

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Ok so I think this is a conspiracy theory I've not heard before. You think David Cameron really does want us to leave the EU?

I think it's more likely that there was little scope for 'negotiation' at the 11th hour, the treaties being the treaties, combined with Dave being unpopular on the Council and a shit negotiator anyway. I never ascribe to malice what can be explained with simple incompetence.
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I can't argue too much with that, lol.
Didn't mean to derail too heavily, but honestly I think it'd be better for 'Remain' if Nigel Farage was in charge than Cameron.

Amnesty's line is a worrying one, but it seems par for the course for the 'developed' world to ignore them unless it suits them.
 
B

Bony Manifesto

Member
CyclopsRock said:
The one he has spent his whole life cultivating? The one where he lead his party from 13 years of wilderness to government, followed by a rabbit-out-of-a-hat majority five years later, kept the UK together, saw enormous employment gains, dragged the Conservative party into the 21st century etc etc. His entire legacy, even if he retired the day after the vote either way, would be destroyed if not only did we leave the EU but if he actively campaigned for us to stay and then we left the EU. His legacy would then be of a lucky PM who hung on as long as he could before a self-inflicted ploy to keep the UKIP dogs at bay lead to a second civil war on Europe in his party that showed not only his party desert him but also the country.
Click to expand...

Are you speaking for yourself there? Because I reckon most people have long since made up their mind about Cameron, and it's only a very narrow section of vociferously pro-EU Tory supporters that are likely to change their opinion of him if he fails to win this referendum.

Not that I think he's deliberately throwing this referendum or anything. He might not lose much from losing, but he sure as hell wouldn't gain anything from it.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
HazySaiyan said:
Why are Turkey even been considered for EU membership with all the shit their government's being pulling? I mean didn't they just put a newspaper under state control less than a week ago? If that isn't an attack on free speech I don't know what is.
Click to expand...


Currently there is a 0% chance that Turkey will be a EU membership, unless every single politician in the EU has just gone bonkers.

I really had to LOL when Turkish PM yesterday said sth. along the lines of "We are ready for being a member of the EU." No, you fucking aren't considering you are destroying your own democracy right now...
 
J

jimbobsmells

Member
I said to a colleague a few weeks ago that the only thing that would make me consider voting for Brexit would be if Turkey joined the union.
 
R

Roberto Larcos

Member
Beefy said:
Man the shit happening in the EU is free PR for the out campaign.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Turkish people in Britain seem far better assimilated than most migrants. Even the older / more right-wing people I know don't have anything against Turks. Romanians and Bulgarians however, never fucking hear the end of it. Farage did a great job of whipping people into a frenzy there.
 
R

Roberto Larcos

Member
jimbobsmells said:
I said to a colleague a few weeks ago that the only thing that would make me consider voting for Brexit would be if Turkey joined the union.
Click to expand...

They have to play by the rules, so why not? And pragmatically, it's another anti-superstate country that could vote with us against the more egregious stuff. The current administration is horrific in many ways, but there are definitely big positives for Britain to come out of this.

That said, a condition has to be that they will never be a part of Schengen (if Schengen even exists in a few years time).
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Turkey will not be joining the EU anytime soon. People need to relax about that. The best they can hope for will be a roadmap which will include several very large economic and social policy obstacles. If they can get over them, they deserve to get in. But it won't happen soon.

What I'm confused about is the whole "one Syrian gets sent back, another gets sent forward from the refugee camps". That's fine. But what about all the non-Syrians migrants? I suppose they just get sent back as well and no-one replaces them from the camps?

On balance, I think it is a good plan. In fact, I think it is a great plan.
 
P

Pandy

Member
CyclopsRock said:
The one he has spent his whole life cultivating? The one where he lead his party from 13 years of wilderness to government, followed by a rabbit-out-of-a-hat majority five years later, kept the UK together, saw enormous employment gains, dragged the Conservative party into the 21st century etc etc. His entire legacy, even if he retired the day after the vote either way, would be destroyed if not only did we leave the EU but if he actively campaigned for us to stay and then we left the EU. His legacy would then be of a lucky PM who hung on as long as he could before a self-inflicted ploy to keep the UKIP dogs at bay lead to a second civil war on Europe in his party that showed not only his party desert him but also the country.

There's no way he'd perform a ploy like you're suggesting, it just doesn't make any sense. Even if he did want to leave and he did want "his people" on both sides of the argument, he's be on the "out" side.
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I'll not give an in-depth reply because it's off-topic, but if you think that's a 'legacy' he'll struggle to protect then you have a much lower opinion of him than I do.
(I, at least, give him credit for being an intelligent sneak, rather than an honest fool.)
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Why the hell is this a PR for the OUT campaign in UK? Are the Britons so scared of the Turkish tourists or what?
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
KingSnake said:
Why the hell is this a PR for the OUT campaign in UK? Are the Britons do scared of the Turkish tourists or what?
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If it gets spun as "75 million Muslims could come to the UK and there is nothing we can do to stop them" then some dickheads would probably fall for it.

Otherwise, Turkey as-it-is-now would make a poor EU member state, because of the low GDP and questionable governance, and could arguably undermine the project, so there is that.

Really though, this has nothing to do with the UK. Turkey are not going to EU anytime soon. Their citizens are not going to all flock to the UK.
 
R

Roberto Larcos

Member
I want more Turkish people in he EU for extremely selfish reasons. Namely, good cheap haircuts and decent kebabs. Germany, you don't know how lucky you are. Spanish food offerings are miserable when returning home from a night out.
 
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