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[Macam]

This sounds familiar.

Marines 'beat US workers' in Iraq

Contractors say they were treated like insurgents

A group of American security guards in Iraq have alleged they were beaten, stripped and threatened with a snarling dog by US marines when they were detained after an alleged shooting incident outside Falluja last month.

"I never in my career have treated anybody so inhumane," one of the contractors, Rick Blanchard, a former Florida state trooper, wrote in an email quoted in the Los Angeles Times. "They treated us like insurgents, roughed us up, took photos, hazed [bullied] us, called us names."

A Marine Corps spokesman denied that abuse had taken place and said an investigation was continuing. According to the marines, 19 employees of Zapata Engineering, including 16 Americans, were detained after a marine patrol in Falluja reported being fired on by a convoy of trucks and sports utility vehicles. The marines also claim to have seen gunmen in the convoy fire at civilians.

This is believed to be the first time that private military contractors have been detained in Iraq by the US military, and it has reignited debate about their status and accountability.

The security guards claim the shooting incident was a case of mistaken identity. A spokeswoman for the company told the LA Times that the guards had fired warning shots into the air when an unidentified vehicle approached their vehicle as it passed through Falluja, but had not fired at any marines.

Mark Schopper, a lawyer for two of the contractors, told the newspaper that his clients, both former marines, were subjected to "physical and psychological abuse". He said they had told him that marines had "slammed around" several con tractors, stripped them to their underwear and placed a loaded weapon near their heads.

"How does it feel to be a big, rich contractor now?" one of the marines is alleged to have shouted at the men, in an apparent reference to the large sums of money private contractors can make in Iraq.

Lieutenant Colonel David Lapan, a Marine Corps spokesman, who did not respond to emails from the Guardian, said in an email to the LA Times: "The Americans were segregated from the rest of the detainee population and, like all security detainees, were treated humanely and respectfully."

The American contractors, who were working in explosives disposal, were arrested on May 18 and imprisoned for three days. All have since left Zapata Engineering, which is based in North Carolina, and have returned to the US. They also complained they were made to wear orange prison uniforms and fed the same "bad food" as Iraqi prisoners.

According to Peter Singer, a Brookings Institute scholar and author of the book Corporate Warriors, private military contractors in Iraq are operating in a black hole as they do not fall within the military chain of command. "What appears to have happened here is tension between forces bubbling to the surface," he told the Guardian.

But he said the incident also raised the question of what happens to contractors if they are caught doing something wrong, such as firing on civilians, as their legal status is not defined. "If the marines think [the contractors] did do something illegal there is no process they can go through. Who are they going to hand them over to?" Mr Singer said. "There have been more than 20,000 [contractors] on the ground in Iraq for more than two years and not one has been prosecuted for anything."

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1502474,00.html?gusrc=rss

 

[whytemyke]

Heh... that's marines for ya. You've got about 40 soldiers in a platoon, with about one person over the age of 25 in the group that's enlisted, and one person that's an officer and about 22. So you end up with a whole bunch of groupthink, and since E1-E3's are pretty much stupid, and 2LTs are stupid, you're left with basically an E5 to run things. And that's not good.

Then again... they ARE civillians willingly going into a warzone. So its hard to feel a lot of pain for them when they know this kind of shit can happen. Imagine the outrage if the Marines had seen a couple tanned people in the convoy and mistaken them all for iraqis! WITH ENGINEERING EQUIPMENT!!! They'd be stripped naked and raped with graphing calculators til they couldn't move, then have their pictures taken.

 

[Incognito]

I say good for the Marines. These mercenaries are causing nothing but problems for the Marines with their shoot first, think later strategy -- and that applies to civillians, too. When a Merc gets gunhappy and starts mowing down people, the Iraqis are rightfully pissed and they'll be directing that anger at the first American they see, Marine or not.

Plus, there's bound to be some resentment over the fact these civilian mercs are getting paid upwards of 100k, all tax free, while the Marines are busting their asses off for reduced pay and benefits when they get back home.

 

[AB 101]

Got to agree with Ingognito.

When I was in the Army years back, man 2nd Lt.s were like a deer in the headlights.

Saw some Sergeant Majors tear 'em a new asshole. They did say "sir" while doing it though.

 

[Macam]

There are two issues here: Private military firms, PMFs, and the continuing reports of abuse by our military. I'm not siding on either side of the PMF debate save to note that we shouldn't even have to resort to them had we gone into Iraq properly. Regardless however, it doesn't excuse the military's abuses if they did indeed occur, and considering we're now seeing further evidence of such abuse from a widening array of sources, it's only going to lend further credibility to such reports.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Putting young troops in the position to share the same duties as a merc (I prefer that term over private contractor) who is making 5-6x what they do is bound to end up poorly.

I mean, when the parent company of the mercs are getting all the money for the war effort, and you're scavaging/begging for decent armor plates for your vest or a humvee that isn't a rolling coffin if you run into an IED, I can see where stress would build up.

 

[whytemyke]

Got to agree with Ingognito.

When I was in the Army years back, man 2nd Lt.s were like a deer in the headlights.

Saw some Sergeant Majors tear 'em a new asshole. They did say "sir" while doing it though.

Dude, I was in an ROTC program for a few years at my university, and we had a guy there who was a Sergeant Major before he was demoted. He was in the middle of an NCO meeting and a 2LT walked in in the middle of it and started giving him orders. Then the E9 got irked and told him he'd talk to him later. the 2LT ignored him, then told him "I dont care what you're doing, I outrank you so do what I say!" Mind you, this 2LT had been out of college for like 2 weeks. So the E9 Grabbed him by his arm, tossed his ass out of the meeting, and said, "I'll brief you privately later. Now get out of my meeting... sir." And slammed the door in his face. Haha, needles to say he wasn't an E9 after that week.... he was demoted to E8 and sent to teach ROTC, hahaha.

 

[Diablos]

Marines scare me. I'm not saying I hate them, though; I respect them for what they do. But if you've ever been approached by one (or two), trying to get you to sign up, you just feel yourself getting smaller. They don't leave you alone, and it's not like a telemarketer where you can just be like "I'm not interested, shut up." But, seriously, you feel like you're getting arrested into this time and date where you're already being expected to show up for a talk with the Marines about joining. They never take no for an answer, you have to explain yourself so many times. If anyone here can successfully get a Marine to back off after one "No, not interested" type of response, you're smart.

 

[Incognito]

Marines scare me. I'm not saying I hate them, though; I respect them for what they do. But if you've ever been approached by one (or two), trying to get you to sign up, you just feel yourself getting smaller. They don't leave you alone, and it's not like a telemarketer where you can just be like "I'm not interested, shut up." But, seriously, you feel like you're getting arrested into this time and date where you're already being expected to show up for a talk with the Marines about joining. They never take no for an answer, you have to explain yourself so many times. If anyone here can successfully get a Marine to back off after one "No, not interested" type of response, you're smart.

Dude, just tell them about your sexual preference. :lol