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[Escape Goat]

When they said that Fred's soul was consumed by the fires of resurrection does that mean her soul just poofed? No heaven? Hell? Angel told Holtz that his soul would be destroyed if he acted in the service of evil. So...which is it?

 

[Ninjas4Less]

judging by illyria's reactions to wesley in the last episodes, its clear there was something of fred there. Just because something is consumed doesnt mean its gone. When I eat food I consume it but its still a part of me.

Its clear illyria was dominant, but as the last season ran on its clear portions of what fred was were beginning to surface.

She was right, fred couldnt come back. At least not as she was. In fact you could argue that illyria no longer existed as well, since the process of bringing her back obviously created something new.

 

[calder]

Hmm, good question. I hadn't thought of it, but the way it sounded it seems like that's where they were going with it. Of course, if Fred's soul hadn't just gone to heaven (no hellfire for that girl!) then some of it was still in Illyria, which I think they wanted to expand on in Season6.

I think (and this is a quick guess on my part based on a few things said about a potential S6) that the writers added that in to both add a bit of finality to Fred being dead and extra gloom to what happened to Fred as well as use it to maybe build up to a greater Fred presence inside Illyria in the next season. If Fred just died and Illyria took her body, if her soul just went to heaven like normal, then the whole aspect of her personality fusing at least a bit with Illyria to form a new evolving character wouldn't make as much sense.


Oh god... "next season". It. Would. Have. Fucking. Rocked. :0

 

[Vlad]

I don't know if it could be considered as part of her soul or not, but Illyria did mention to Wesley at the end of Shells that as Fred died, certain memories and parts of Fred became part of herself, or something to that effect.

Of course, we have no idea if this is just how Illyria perceived what was left of Fred's soul, or if it was just more like a data transfer or something.

 

[BojTrek]

I honestly felt that Fred was completely gone... that her soul was destroyed, it didn't go to heaven or hell... it was just destroyed.

I feel Illyria was changed by Wesley... she changed because she was not in her world, her world was destroyed. She had nothing to rule over and dominate... she began to learn from Wesley what it meant to be human.

I feel Fred was competely lost for good... I will watch the DVD's some day to see if my thoughts change... I mean I bought them for garsh sakes!

 

[Anyanka]

I think it was completely destroyed. She is just gone. Illyria morphing into Fred and having her memories doesn't seem to have anything to do with Fred's soul. In Shells she tells Wesley that when Fred died electrical spasms in her dying brain transfered her memories to Illyria and in The Girl In Question she says morphing into Fred is just simple changing of her form and that she can choose her own appearance.

And the comment to Holtz was just a metaphore.


I wonder if Illyria had a soul? It's something interesting to think about. The Buffyverse is really unclear about souls in demons. Like what about Anya? Or a Werewolf?

 

[mrmyth]

Fred's soul is gone. Remember, in the Buffyverse, humans can be brought back if killed by mystical means. There'd be no way Wes would've let Fred stay wherever she was if there was a chance he could have her again.

There was nothing to bring back.


Illyria had Fred's complete set of memories. They were accessible to her like a book. I think she read them, used them, and then kind of grew an affection/respect for Wes through them. It wasn't Illyria becoming Fred as Wes died, it was Illyria using a tool to comfort a human she has grown fond of. She was no more Fred than Lorne was.

 

[Ninjas4Less]

Its clear illyria was feeling a lot of things she didnt understand in the last episode, taking the 'soul is gone' so literally is pretty short sighted.

 

[Escape Goat]

Its clear illyria was feeling a lot of things she didnt understand in the last episode, taking the 'soul is gone' so literally is pretty short sighted.

At best it is unclear what happened. I imagine that was what seaon 6 was going to be for. Fred may have left an impression on Illyria but her soul is ultimately gone. Or maybe it did ascend to "heaven" or maybe its stll inside her.

 

[mrmyth]

Its clear illyria was feeling a lot of things she didnt understand in the last episode, taking the 'soul is gone' so literally is pretty short sighted.

She had her ass kicked for the first time. She was living amongst beings that existed as puddles of goop in her day, and they had the nerve to interact with her. She had a phat crib waiting for her reduced to rubble. The three little brats from down the block now rule the world. Half of her ability was gone.


She didn't need Fred's soul to feel a little angsty.


Death is not final in the Buffyverse. So for no attempts to be made to bring Fred back proves that her soul is gone. Fred will never exist again. Her shell and memories are pretty darn indestructible nowadays, but the old tenant is gone. No heaven , no hell. Just gone. Considering the daily lives of the living/undead in the Buffyverse, I think she got the long end of the stick.