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[Filben]

It's 2024 and despite games portraying more and more shades of grey instead of black and white it's hard to find a game like the Legacy of Kain and Soul Reaver series. Is there a reason for that? What games do you know come close?

In which games do we have an antagonist that isn't just evil for the sake of it and/or is eloquent and can rival the protagonist both in combat and dialogues? In which game you become more and more unsure if the villain you pursue is really the villain in that story? In which game is the supposed villain charismatic and don't make you want to smash his face? The back and forth between Raziel and Kain is excellent executed. It's not even the style of language they use, although it does support a lot.

In Horizon: Zero Dawn that Sylens character touched upon that and was the only one who could stand against Aloy with words and wasn't open like a book. The only real interesting character.

Baldur's Gate 3 does something similar in the final act.

Are there other games you guys could recommend? Games where the villain makes you as a player think and also the protagonist? Even so you start to question the protagonist's whole quest?

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Devil May Cry 3 is an obvious answer. I got those vibes from the very promotional billboards.

 

[Danjin44]

Sekiro and Genichiro

 

[rabbity-thing]

The Legacy of Kain series has no equal.

That said, Batman and Joker in the Arkham series play off of each other really well. Though, if I'm being honest, it almost feels like cheating since Conroy and Hamill are just riffing off of characters they had already perfected in BTAS.

 

[intbal]

Not really as you describe it, OP, but Letho from Witcher 2 is a "complicated" antagonist with reasons that aren't so black and white.

 

[Soodanim]

Sekiro and Genichiro

It's only been a few months since I played it and I don't remember how Genichiro is grey. Can you remind me?

 

[Danjin44]

It's only been a few months since I played it and I don't remember how Genichiro is grey. Can you remind me?

His doing all this and even sacrificing his humanity to save Ashina clan which they took him as a child and raised him. In Sengoku period in Japan was a huge civil war which every Clan fighting each other for power and this game Ashina clan was in brink of losing. Owl (Sekiro's father) in other hand wants the power for selfish reasons.

 

[Astral Dog]

i prefer villains who are unshamely evil, represent classic flaws ,ambition and pride, or are manipulative bastards

one example is Ganondorf in the Wind Waker, imo one of the best villains in videogames with just a few written lines.

He gets humanised, and explains his desire to conquer Hyrule to get back at the Gods for the suffering of his people, but despite that excuse, he is still an irremedable monster that murdered millions and his greed for power consumed him, at the end he was a crazy old fool

Devil May Cry 3 is an obvious answer. I got those vibes from the very promotional billboards.

I never got the idea from the game that Vergil wanted anything but more power, he wanted to be like Sparda, but DMC3 doesn't explain why, he was willing to murder millions opening the gate to the demon world .Dante just got pissed off that Vergil was willing to go that far, instead of living peacefully on the human world

DMC5 tried to fix this showing how evil Vergil could be without his humanity,after restoring his body he explains that he thought his mother had abandoned him for Dante

 

[The Cockatrice]

Hmm I suppose Portal 1/2 with Glados, once you realize her story.
Andrew Ryan from Bioshock
Kerrigan from Starcraft 1/2
The reapers, illusive man from Mass Effect trilogy,
I wont spoil but Fallen Order has some grey villains,
Abbey? from TLOU2 even tho she is a protagonist most ppl on gaf consider her a villain
most of the Spider-man villains like Doc Oc

 

[Illyrius]

There's nothing that comes close to the writing of LoK, Soul Reaver and especially Soul Reaver 2. It's something to behold. The story and the dialogue are so well written, it should be an industry example.