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[ROMhack]

So I saw The Stanley Parable is coming to consoles and while that's great and everything it's made me wonder if indie games have lost something over the past five years.

Casting my mind when the game was first released in 2013 paints an exciting moment in the emergence of indie titles. Games like The Stanley Parable, Gunpoint, Don't Starve, Towerfall, Papers Please, Gone Home, The Swapper, Proteus, and Kentucky Route Zero were all released that year. A lot were only available on PC and showed that small titles could leave a lasting impression while gathering an audience. In short, it was a very exciting time, especially if you wanted an alternative to mainstream gaming.

Seemingly though indie games have lost a bit of that punk attitude of late. There have of course been some great indie titles over the past few years like Celeste, Hollow Knight, Stardew Valley and Cuphead, but I'd argue they've almost become too polished. That doesn't mean they're bad (far from it!) but it seems the 'best' ones are much less 'idea' driven than games from the 2013 list. It's almost like they're convention-following rather than trend-setting.

A good contrast can be found in this year's The Return of Obra Dinn. It's got a very old school, unapologetic style and is completely unique really. It seems to have much more in common with games from 2013 and is also only available on PC. It seems like it fits into the list of games in the second paragraph quite well but is an anomaly in 2018.

I suppose I'm wondering if indie games flirtation with mainstream audiences have meant they can't be as experimental as in previous years? The Stanley Parable coming to consoles seems a bit weird. I wonder a bit why the people behind that game haven't decided to work on a new game instead. It's been three years since Davey Wreden released the very very very experimental The Beginners' Guide, and also three years since the other part of that deadly duo (William Pugh) released the short-but-wonderful Dr. Langeskov, The Tiger, and The Terribly Cursed Emerald: A Whirlwind Heist.

Maybe I'm being unfair but I feel it's something worth discussing. I think indie games are probably more fun to play than ever before, but at the same time I'm not sure they're as innovative or fresh. I wonder how others feel about it?

 

[DS_Joost]

They're actually making games now instead of just neat ideas. Which is entirely a good thing.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Indie games now have their own version of playing it safe: slap on pixel graphics and an endearing soundtrack. Maybe make your game about "mental health issues" or "struggles of [oppressed identity group]" and it seems like your indie stardom is assured. That is the biggest issue with indies right now, in my opinion.

Are indies as innovative and fresh? Depends on where you look. There seems to be a new Metroidvania and a new "[genre] + Roguelike" every month. These still sell so of course they'll still be made. As far as the really innovative indie stuff, I think a dip into the VR realm is the place to look. The vast majority of the good stuff is coming from smaller studios or no-name indies. Kickstarter is a thing, too.

Let's not forget, though, that we have been tolerating slim content and quite a bit of jank for years in the indie realm. Castle Crashers and Meat Boy look like flash games which would be intolerable by today's indie standards. Faster Than Light was great but lacked any meaningful story or lore. Swinging your tools in Terraria would've been considered crappy sprite animation during the 16-bit era.

A market catering to customer tastes is a healthy market.

If anything, I'd be more worried for AAA devs. Indies continue to creep "up market" with better and better graphics, deeper gameplay, better art design, better animation, etc. AAA devs wishing to make their mark in the Metroidvania genre are completely screwed (the quality is so high already). AAA devs hoping to tack "roguelike" onto their game need to do so in a novel way or else no one cares. Anyone who wants to make another Harvest Moon/Rune Factory clone must compete with Stardew Valley and Moonlighter and Recetear (and so forth). Anyone who wants to make another sidescrolling Metroid/Castlevania must compete with Hollow Knight and Rogue Legacy and Steamworld Dig (and so forth).

 

[ROMhack]

Indie games now have their own version of playing it safe: slap on pixel graphics and an endearing soundtrack. Maybe make your game about "mental health issues" or "struggles of [oppressed identity group]" and it seems like your indie stardom is assured. That is the biggest issue with indies right now, in my opinion.

Are indies as innovative and fresh? Depends on where you look. There seems to be a new Metroidvania and a new "[genre] + Roguelike" every month. These still sell so of course they'll still be made. As far as the really innovative indie stuff, I think a dip into the VR realm is the place to look. The vast majority of the good stuff is coming from smaller studios or no-name indies. Kickstarter is a thing, too.

Let's not forget, though, that we have been tolerating slim content and quite a bit of jank for years in the indie realm. Castle Crashers and Meat Boy look like flash games which would be intolerable by today's indie standards. Faster Than Light was great but lacked any meaningful story or lore. Swinging your tools in Terraria would've been considered crappy sprite animation during the 16-bit era.

A market catering to customer tastes is a healthy market.

If anything, I'd be more worried for AAA devs. Indies continue to creep "up market" with better and better graphics, deeper gameplay, better art design, better animation, etc. AAA devs wishing to make their mark in the Metroidvania genre are completely screwed (the quality is so high already). AAA devs hoping to tack "roguelike" onto their game need to do so in a novel way or else no one cares. Anyone who wants to make another Harvest Moon/Rune Factory clone must compete with Stardew Valley and Moonlighter and Recetear (and so forth). Anyone who wants to make another sidescrolling Metroid/Castlevania must compete with Hollow Knight and Rogue Legacy and Steamworld Dig (and so forth).

Good post! It's hard to disagree that there's upsides to how they've matured. I guess before they were competing amongst themselves as the new thing, whereas now they're competing amongst themselves AND big publishers. There's every reason to suspect that people's expectations have risen as that's happened, both due to them entering the mainstream market as well as the quality of games that have come before. I suppose that means they need to be full-fledged products not just 'ideas'.

I wonder if it's why a game like Into The Breach hasn't become anywhere near as wildly popular as its predecessor FTL.

 

[Alexios]

No because there's no "indie games" collective making decisions about everybody, it can be a bunch of friends or even just co-workers doing their best in a professional manner or it can be one guy/gal toiling away in their basement, they all are unique entities that do what they want as they see fit. It's great that we can both get something like Ashen and something like DUSK and something like Iconoclasts or Momodora and something like Hollow Knight and something like Super Hydorah and many more different things, all indie, completely different in production and goals, all worthwhile.

Made sure to include both 2D and 3D games each from both bigger and smaller teams for the examples, go check them out

 

[michaelius]

Some indie games are replacing old AA class games which went nearly extinct in previous generation creating vacuum to fill.

 

[PocoJoe]

I lost my interest into indies years ago, only great one I can remember were the wittness.

Mostly because 9/10 indie games i tested were shitty gameplay with shitty idea, crushed into "funny" graphics.

Aka devs had no skills to do good game so they did shitty game and trying to be funny, but they didnt.

I know there are more great ones too, but if most are bad, i dont wanna waste my time trying to look for the good ones

It is easier to play nes/snes games that are good rather than bad indie that mimics their style horribly.

But if they are starting to be more of a games rather than "hey look our funny 8-bit retro fart simulator, buy it buy it", i guess it is good

 

[Alexios]

I lost my interest into indies years ago, only great one I can remember were the wittness.

Mostly because 9/10 indie games i tested were shitty gameplay with shitty idea, crushed into "funny" graphics.

Aka devs had no skills to do good game so they did shitty game and trying to be funny, but they didnt.

I know there are more great ones too, but if most are bad, i dont wanna waste my time trying to look for the good ones

It is easier to play nes/snes games that are good rather than bad indie that mimics their style horribly.

But if they are starting to be more of a games rather than "hey look our funny 8-bit retro fart simulator, buy it buy it", i guess it is good

Most games are bad period, not just indie games though, you know there are hundreds upon hundreds of releases a year and you only play a fraction and maybe even lead towards certain developers/franchises/publishers, right? Indies are no different, nobody guarantees "games" are good or "movies" are good or "music" is good, you never buy blind and "indies" are no worse than any other as a rule or something. It's silly to dismiss something based on label rather than, you know, content. You don't have to take the time you may not have to actually do informed purchases but you can't make statements like that either as if they only apply to indies when it's just, er, capitalism I guess, I didn't even know what shaving machine to buy recently and had to research, doesn't mean I'm gonna go omg the shaving machine companies suck, I wish they were like electric toothbrush companies where most don't suck because arguably most may suck in both cases and I happen to simply be more informed about one or the other to make better decisions. Or even not so informed and I just happen to know a good brand/model to go with in one case but not in the other. Anyway, all irrelevant to the OP, lol.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Good post! It's hard to disagree that there's upsides to how they've matured. I guess before they were competing amongst themselves as the new thing, whereas now they're competing amongst themselves AND big publishers. There's every reason to suspect that people's expectations have risen as that's happened, both due to them entering the mainstream market as well as the quality of games that have come before. I suppose that means they need to be full-fledged products not just 'ideas'.

I think you have a point because it does seem to me that instead of making something novel, you can either cram an IMPORTANT SOCIAL ISSUE or tack on roguelike (or something like that) and then you succeed as an indie. I guess it makes sense. Indies can just competently make a game in one of the countless genres abandoned by AAA devs and you're sure to find a market somewhere. Who would've thought that grid-based first person dungeon crawlers would still sell, yet Legend of Grimrock is a thing.

Last-gen, it seemed like everyone was making sidescrolling platformers like Limbo, Fez, Braid, Outlands, Trine, Dust, Battleblock Theatre, etc.

I wonder if it's why a game like Into The Breach hasn't become anywhere near as wildly popular as its predecessor FTL.

Plebs. Not to be cruel, but plebs are the reason. It's a grid-based strategy game. That genre is niche. Also, FTL gained some popularity simply because it was one of the very first successful Kickstarter games.

 

[petran79]

When we reached a point where even the original creator Nintendo failed to deliver a successfull 2d Metroid and to overshadow many popular Metroidvanias and even the Metroid 2 fan remake, then the ship has sailed long ago.
But there should be a distinction between indie and experimental. Innovation comes from the latter since you can be indie yet make the most mainstream game available

 

[hariseldon]

Indie Games for me had a Golden Age around the birth of the Humble Bundle, release of Super Meat Boy, Braid, VVVVVV, etc. I mean there was this HUUUUUGE surge of creativity born of a set of clever developers using limited toolsets to do wonderful things focusing on really fucking excellent gameplay. To be fair to the gaming press, we would probably not have known about them without the likes of RockPaperShotgun championing them, and for that I am grateful. Unfortunately though what then happened is that they started getting a bit too close (leading of course to GamerGate but that's a tale for another day), and during that time the gaming press itself changed, becoming infiltrated by an increasingly hostile base of alt-left. Now seeing their role as gatekeepers, the gaming blogs became arrogant, concluding that they could bully their readers not just into buying particular games, but into supporting the alt-left agenda. They could also use that to bully developers, ex-communicating any who didn't follow that agenda, while lifting up those who did (hence all the positive coverage of the game where you're in a bathroom looking at guys pensies except the penises are guns.. yeah that's a sentence I just wrote). And this is how you kill creativity in indie gaming.