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I'll probably be going to a few football games this season and I've been thinking about this shit. I appreciate what Kaepernick is doing, it is a very peaceful protest and I think his reasons for doing it to bring attention to everyday racism in this country are genuine, unlike a lot of other white folks.

However it is resonating with me for a different reason, one that you might have reflected on as well when this happened. Nationalism, guised as patriotism, is out of hand in America. They are the same thing, but someone in this thread will try to argue it's different.

Think about this:
We have kids recite the pledge everyday
We play the national anthem at literally everything. I remember in sixth grade they always had a student sing it before middle school basketball games.

Other countries don't do this shit. Keep the national anthem for shit like the olympics, World Cup, shit you can even play it at the Super Bowl.

I studied German for 7 years in school and I know a bit about German culture. Learning that it is generally frowned upon to be nationalistic in Germany blew my mind to the point where I did a project on controversy of nationalism in Germany when hosting the 2006 World Cup in college. In the US, people fly their flags everywhere. No one is hanging a German flag outside their house on a Monday in Germany. You might see some people doing it during the World Cup, but that is primarily for the sport and hanging your team's flag.

In the US, children are brainwashed every day into pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth. It wasn't until high school where I started to have the courage to sit through it. I can't tell you how many substitute teachers would have a hissy fit. I never got in trouble for it, I was usually very well behaved in school. They would generally ask me why I don't support the troops or some shit which I would just laugh at. Being a 16 year old edge lord, I told them that if they truly cared about our troops they wouldn't support sending them to die in illegal wars; if they supported the troops they wouldn't have an issue with someone exercising their constitutional rights in a public school.

Was it this bad before 9/11? Too young to remember but I feel like the country was much less nationalistic before that. We are coming up on 15 years and people still haven't moved on from it. People born after it are in high school now.

There's my rant about nationalism, now let's get down to it: would you ever sit through an anthem? You would literally be the only person out of 90,000+ other people in the stadium sitting down for it. I've been thinking about this shit a lot lately and I want to try it. I think it is hilarious how riled up people get over it. The national anthem has literally nothing to do with whether or not I support the troops. And of course I support the troops, you have to support the troops as Eric Andre says.

Could you do it gaf? Go to a game and sit through it and have someone take a pic. I dare you. We've had several sports figures come out and do it now, so the trend is gaining momentum. I'm hoping LeBron or Melo will do it when NBA starts up since it clearly hasn't hurt jersey sales for Kap. A big name NFL star doing it would be huge. I'm holding out hope that Richard Sherman gets in on this, I think he gets a pleasure out of pissing off the general public.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Easily.

When did the military claim ownership of national anthems.

 

[bionic77]

I see a lot of people sit down for the anthem for NFL and NBA games.

A lot of people are not even paying attention.

 

[brochiller]

I always thought making every child in the nation blindly pledge their allegiance to a flag was terrifying.

 

[neoanarch]

Yes. It's never been a problem.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

not american. nationalism isn't a thing. we usually chat shit through the anthem

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I'm in Sweden. We proud ourselves on not being proud about our Swedishness and having realised that patriotism is a hopelessly outdated concept. And most people agree that our national anthem is a bit shit anyway. So I've been sitting through it several times without drawing any second looks.

 

[Teriyaki Blues]

I've done sitting out the pledge and the anthem. I respect the country which gives me this right. It isn't mandatory, that's the whole point of having a free country. It makes me sad when people forget that.

I guess it is worth mentioning that I'm older than dirt, so definitely before 9/11.

 

[heliosRAzi]

I do it all of the time.

 

[His Majesty]

I don't even know the lyrics of our national anthem. Then again Belgian nationalism is at an all-time low. No one really cares if you stand up/sing.

 

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

I do it, but not because I'm brave, but because I hate the troops.

 

[LosDaddie]

Absolutely

But I don't want to 😊

 

[Shanks D Zoro]

Whenever i watch Italy play and I hear il canto i stand up and put my hand to my chest.

 

[notaskwid]

I'll facepalm through the hymn.

 

[Usobuko]

Of course, my country don't indulge in nationalism propaganda. You're free to do what you want.

In America, very often it blindly promote American exceptionalism and help to antagonize their international rivals even though the selected group that benefits from this nationalism is insular as hell. Class, race, gender, sexual orientation etc.

 

[Taco_Human]

Sit through it all the time. I don't go to sporting events much often either. It's not hard to do when the government probably killed some family I don't know about.

 

[SummitAve]

Nobody would notice. Plenty of people doing other shit during the anthem in my experience.

 

[DrFunk]

uh yeah? Most Americans don't even pay attention to the anthem at sporting events.

 

[LucidMomentum]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

You go to any sporting event, you'll see many people dicking around during the NA.

They only care when someone makes them uncomfortable.

Therefore, yeah. I'm no longer standing for this shit if people are going to treat Kap the way they have been.

Fuck you, let's make things uncomfortable until the US starts working towards making people's lives more comfortable.

 

[Nudull]

uh yeah? Most Americans don't even pay attention to the anthem at sporting events.

Except when brown people sit down, apparently.

 

[Gattsu25]

I don't even know the lyrics of our national anthem. Then again Belgian nationalism is at an all-time low. No one really cares if you stand up/sing.

Here are the lyrics to the US anthem:

O! say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!​

The third verse is referring to the killing of slaves that sought freedom, you see, one of the tactics that the British used (in the war of 1812, two years before the anthem was penned) against America was to liberate American slaves. Can't be having any of that.

 

[Dipper145]

I'm always amazed at Americas level of nationalism... It makes me feel bad that I'm not all that nationalistic for my country.

I always get stuck in an endless loop of lyrics somewhere around the middle of O Canada

 

[karmaforgotme]

I am a Marine Veteran so I will stand for the national anthem always, but I am a liberal who understands why someone like Kaepernick is not standing. I guess I just stand for a different reason than most. It is for my brothers.

My biggest worry about Kaepernick is his act has overpowered the message when it comes to the audience he needs to reach. All I hear about from people is about the act not why he is doing it. I try to educated them that as a veteran I support his right to do so, and where he is coming from, but the act seems to always overshadow it.

I also don't find it anti-American not to stand for the pledge. You can still love your country (I am happy to be an American), while protesting it. Actually the ones that truly love it the most are usually are the ones protest it for it to be better.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I wonder if there's some weird reason from ancient history why Germany isn't so keen on nationalism, just can't think of any.

 

[offtopic]

I'm sure many people have been wondering if they would do this or maybe take a knee (although this can be logistically difficult in the stands) like Kaep. As others have said here, not everyone stands (depends on the event in my experience) so taking a knee would in many ways be a more forceful, proactive gesture. I am considering doing it in part because of the issues Kaep has brought to the front but also as a way of protesting the vile responses his action has brought out in people.

 

[Kurita]

It's just a song and a flag.
I don't really have reasons to show that I'm proud of my country, I didn't choose to live there lol

 

[malingenie]

I think in the context of the United States what this Kaepernick person is doing is more than admirable. And brave. And ballsy. And it's working; it's showing the inequality that even exists in protesting and perceptions of protesting.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

I don't even see every one standing for the canadian anthem.

 

[Friggz]

i dont view a sporting event as some patriotic pep rally. so id have no problem sitting.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Most people don't give a shit if you are sitting or not paying attention. It became a news thing because he wanted it to be.

 

[Ultima_5]

I wonder if there's some weird reason from ancient history why Germany isn't so keen on nationalism, just can't think of any.

Yeah it's not exactly baffling when you live in a country where close relatives participated In a genocide

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Yeah, I've seen plenty of people sitting during the anthem. Nobody cares if some random dude in the stands isn't standing for the anthem.

 

[linkandzelda]

I honestly can't remember the last time I heard 'God Save the Queen' in a public setting. If I ever have that is.

 

[wenis]

Doesn't take bravery. It's only logical to sit.

 

[kavanf1]

Must be an American thing. Nobody I know cares what you're doing when the national anthem is playing.

 

[UncleSporky]

Must be an American thing. Nobody I know cares what you're doing when the national anthem is playing.

This thread's a bit overblown. Nobody I know in America cares either. Social media doesn't count, there are crazies who will rant about everything - 90% of the population doesn't give a shit.

 

[BossDarkseid]

Yes?

Not American but....eh. If I went to an England football game i'd be depressed enough, but then there's like the communal aspect of singing it. I wouldn't hesitate to sit down if I didn't want to stand.

 

[High Fry Frow]

Ive lived in the SF Bay Area and Portland, OR during my life......never faced any of the issues some of the OPs describe.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Here are the lyrics to the US anthem:

O! say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there;
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner, O! long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation.
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the Heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!​

The third verse is referring to the killing of slaves that sought freedom, you see, one of the tactics that the British used (in the war of 1812, two years before the anthem was penned) against America was to liberate American slaves. Can't be having any of that.

That's not what the song is talking about, at all. "Hireling and Slave" refers to colonial British forces and mercenaries that were a standard part of the British forces, while the Americans saw themselves as "free men" who cast off the British yoke. It's the same rhetoric you see in classical Greek history, where America styled itself after heavily, especially regarding Greece v. The Persian empire. That verse says, in plain language, "Who are those jerks now who were talking a big game about beating America? They are a bunch of cronies who are dead or running away, that's who."

The whole song is basically just "America, Fuck Yeah" but in flowerly language. Besides, they never sing more than the first verse anyway.

 

[Ikuu]

Always thought it was weird it gets played before every sports game, over here you only get the anthem(s) during international matches.

 

[InfiniteBento]

Definitely

Until "liberty and justice for all" is a reality, I will never stand during that anthem.

 

[kobu]

i don't even know the national anthem

 

[shira]

Could you do it gaf? Go to a game and sit through it and have someone take a pic. I dare you.

Nobody cares about the fans. It's the players doing it that's interesting.

 

[weshes195]

Lol sitting through it isn't that impressive (unless you're doing it for a cause). I just was at a football game and I was walking the whole time the song was played. Everyone standing was just looking at me while I walked past them. It made everything so much easier to get to my seat. Lol

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Unless the Queen's there or it's to pay tribute to someone, I always sit anyway

 

[HStallion]

I did all the time but it was more because I was lazy and my job had me out of the sight of the public. Still even when I was in total view of the public I didn't get up but I was often running a light board for an entire arena show full of thousands on thousands of people so I had more important things to do like making sure the entire place didn't fall into darkness or I didn't jump a cue/

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

God forbid you show pride in the country that grants you the freedom to disrespect it.

America has an almost innumerable list of flaws; no doubt. We to this day struggle with giving our neighbors a welcoming smile and fair treatment. We've made mistakes, and still make mistakes. And sometimes we're slow to show growth. It's absolutely harder for an inner-city black kid to have appreciation for the flag than a white kid in middle-class suburbia.

But man, the edge in this thread is something else. I know I'm the minority here, and that's fine. But... I just don't understand the harm in singing the anthem. Have pride in your country. The USA, for all its issues, is also a damn good place to be and is a country worth being prideful in living in.

And I say this as someone who has no problem with Kaepernick's demonstration - I applaud him for peacefully showing his disdain for a problem that needs attention.

 

[Gattsu25]

That's not what the song is talking about, at all. "Hireling and Slave" refers to colonial British forces and mercenaries that were a standard part of the British forces, while the Americans saw themselves as "free men" who cast off the British yoke. It's the same rhetoric you see in classical Greek history, where America styled itself after heavily, especially regarding Greece v. The Persian empire. That verse says, in plain language, "Who are those jerks now who were talking a big game about beating America? They are a bunch of cronies who are dead or running away, that's who."

The whole song is basically just "America, Fuck Yeah" but in flowerly language. Besides, they never sing more than the first verse anyway.

And some if those British forces were former US slaves: https://theintercept.com/2016/08/28...-national-anthem-is-a-celebration-of-slavery/

 

[Ban Puncher]

Would you stand if the American national anthem was changed to this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-paa3wwGWww

 

[snacknuts]

Yes, probably. The last time I went to an NFL game, two dudes almost got into a fight because one of them was sitting during the anthem, and the other was a vet who was cheesed off about the first dude's indifference. And this was a couple years ago, way before the Kaep kerfuffle.