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[cormack12]

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/arkane-au...-final-update-has-given-him-a-burst-of-energy

Former Arkane Austin studio head, Harvey Smith, says hearing fan feedback after playing the "cleaned up, final version" of Redfall has given him "a burst of energy".

...Smith also teased that he was "looking forward to talking about" his plans post-Arkane Austin's sad closure.

"Hearing from the people playing the cleaned up, final version of Redfall is such a burst of energy," Smith wrote. "I'm looking forward to talking about what I'll be doing next."

 

[HL3.exe]

Hoping Harvey lands on his feet and gets to make another ImmSim again.

Ex-Looking Glass, Deus Ex 1&2, Dishonored 1&2 is quite the pedigree.

 

[Alexios]

I'd hope his plans are as far from that game as possible for its reviews to matter tbh. But if that's what he wants to make, o well, good luck, not gonna box anybody in.

 

[clarky]

Would have been better for the final, cleaned up version to be , well you know the one that got released in the first place.

Still not a great title now, but the guy has made some great games in the past. Good luck to him on his next (hopefully better) game.

 

[MrRibeye]

Good for him

 

[Alan Wake]

A positive ending and soon a new beginning.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Ah yes, feedback from all 13 players that decided to give this one more try.

Feels to me like the guy wants to have a cleaner CV and make people forget that he was responsible for this turd.

 

[Astray]

Ah yes, feedback from all 13 players that decided to give this one more try.

Feels to me like the guy wants to have a cleaner CV and make people forget that he was responsible for this turd.

I mean he wasn't?

Game was clearly forced on him by Zenimax and later on Microsoft management. It literally goes against all his past pedigree.

 

[Johnny Concrete]

You can pause the game now. Wow. Super Mario Bros. eat your heart out!

I sometimes wonder if the whole ‘redemption arc’ of some games and their devs is part of some elaborate marketing strategy nowadays.

 

[Chukhopops]

Ah yes, feedback from all 13 players that decided to give this one more try.

Feels to me like the guy wants to have a cleaner CV and make people forget that he was responsible for this turd.

I feel for him because he has clearly been brought to this situation by bad management from Bethesda and MS. But yeah there’s no huge pride in pushing out two patches over the course of an entire year while cancelling everything else.

And I say that as one of the very few who actually played Redfall to completion.

 

[Darsxx82]

I mean he wasn't?

Game was clearly forced on him by Zenimax and later on Microsoft management. It literally goes against all his past pedigree.

The example of how to try to blame MS by all means for different reasons on the same matter....

The story of Redfall has already been told, there is no need to invent. MS's guilt is known, and it was simply not being interventionist and canceling the project in order to avoid controversy and being accused of "not giving creative freedom to the new Studios adquired."

When MS acquired Bethesda, Redfall was already totally defined as a game. That is to say, the first fault was Bethesda for forcing a Studio famous for SP history driven games to make an MP online coop game. And then also those within the Studio who convinced MS that the game had potential and canceling an essencialy finished game (which they themselves promised MS to have ready to launch in 6 months) was not the best option . And the project manager surely had something to do with the latter.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

The Suicide Squad community found a new haven.

 

[Astray]

The example of how to try to blame MS by all means for different reasons on the same matter....

The story of Redfall has already been told, there is no need to invent. MS's guilt is known, and it was simply not being interventionist and canceling the project in order to avoid controversy and being accused of "not giving creative freedom to the new Studios adquired."

When MS acquired Bethesda, Redfall was already totally defined as a game. That is to say, the first fault was Bethesda for forcing a Studio famous for SP history driven games to make an MP online coop game. And then also those within the Studio who convinced MS that the game had potential and canceling an essencialy finished game (which they themselves promised MS to have ready to launch in 6 months) was not the best option . And the project manager surely had something to do with the latter.

They didn't cancel a project that was clearly going very wrong, and not only did they choose to push this game as their show closer, they actually made it their 1st $70 game!

The idea that Microsoft isn't at least partially to blame for it is fucking absurd.

 

[Hudo]

Hoping Harvey lands on his feet and gets to make another ImmSim again.

Ex-Looking Glass, Deus Ex 1&2, Dishonored 1&2 is quite the pedigree.

Deus Ex 2 fucking sucked, tho.

 

[Darsxx82]

They didn't cancel a project that was clearly going very wrong, and not only did they choose to push this game as their show closer, they actually made it their 1st $70 game!

The idea that Microsoft isn't at least partially to blame for it is fucking absurd.

The fact that you can point out a certain amount of guilt to MS is independent of wanting to make people believe that the staff responsible for the project have nothing to blame themselves and that the fault lies solely with Bethesda and MS..., which is what your answer implied and what I have answered.

There are many people responsible for what has happened with Redfall, but of course those in charge of the project and precisely its head are not free from blame. Starting with convincing MS that the Redfall project had potential, followed by the subsequent delays (over a year) in the launch after assuring MS that the game was finished and still releasing a clearly unfinished product. .....

 

[Braag]

I hope he gets to make games that he actually wants to make.

sometimes wonder if the whole ‘redemption arc’ of some games and their devs is part of some elaborate marketing strategy nowadays.

Yes, the marketing strategy was to close down the studio.

 

[Moriarty1889]

That’s good to hear for the chap. The final update did help a lot and the game is in much better shape than it was at launch. The fact it can also be played offline now will at least help preserve it as well for people who may enjoy it.

 

[SportsFan581]

Hopefully his next effort hits the shelf a little bit more ready to go. This is one of those games that I played at release but probably should have held back on. If you have GP and haven't given it a go yet, I'd still recommend it. Not as fleshed out as a Far Cry, but similar in a lot of ways. The setup for the game is interesting.

 

[Astray]

The fact that you can point out a certain amount of guilt to MS is independent of wanting to make people believe that the staff responsible for the project have nothing to blame themselves and that the fault lies solely with Bethesda and MS..., which is what your answer implied and what I have answered.

There are many people responsible for what has happened with Redfall, but of course those in charge of the project and precisely its head are not free from blame. Starting with convincing MS that the Redfall project had potential, followed by the subsequent delays (over a year) in the launch after assuring MS that the game was finished and still releasing a clearly unfinished product. .....

Where did you get the bolded part? Because I have followed his interviews on the game pre-release and the coverage post-release, and nothing was mentioned that even resembles what you've written there.

 

[LastBattle]

Cool, didn’t know it had another update. Think I’ll give it a try soon.

 

[mitch1971]

I sometimes wonder if the whole ‘redemption arc’ of some games and their devs is part of some elaborate marketing strategy nowadays.

I do, too, sometimes. I wouldn't be surprised if on the Devs check list they include a 'rollback' feature that they add for it to be then taken away for brownie points.

 

[Shut0wen]

Hoping Harvey lands on his feet and gets to make another ImmSim again.

Ex-Looking Glass, Deus Ex 1&2, Dishonored 1&2 is quite the pedigree.

Harvey is a total hack with deus ex being his only good game, dishonoured was all raphael colantonios doing and harvey being obsessed with redfall is the reason why arkane failed, look at blacksite area 51 a game he thought could be made within a year and a half and ended up buggy as shit

 

[HL3.exe]

Harvey is a total hack with deus ex being his only good game, dishonoured was all raphael colantonios doing and harvey being obsessed with redfall is the reason why arkane failed, look at blacksite area 51 a game he thought could be made within a year and a half and ended up buggy as shit

Disagree, plenty of great developers, filmmakers, musicians have a imperfect track record. A flawed/failed project it not the cause of one individual. Game development especially is build on luck and the right timing a lot the time. The right team with the right investors, the right publishers/producers. Blacksite being a perfect example of a project a project where he come on later, a project that was already fucked. Deus Ex 2 being the result because of the sales of DX1. Them wanting to focus on a console version to broaden the user base, but with a simulation heavy game type that is unfit for the consoles, but needing to make a case for Eidos to put stock in the project. Up until 2002 there was a PC only build from Deus Ex 2, and looked drastically different.


(Also DX2 is quite overhated, it has major problems but also stuff most games don't even try to do, especially not these days in this overly polished risk-avers era)

Game development, especially when you want to make ImmSims, can be an intense trainwreck and impressive when a game turns out good, let alone innovate or financially succeed.

 

[Darsxx82]

Where did you get the bolded part? Because I have followed his interviews on the game pre-release and the coverage post-release, and nothing was mentioned that even resembles what you've written there.

The story behind the cameras was detailed in several articles by various media. Including the PS5 version that was planned/in development.

The timeline is known:

-After the PREY failure in sales and critic from the media (very different from that of the users) Bethesda commissioned them with a Gass game. People from the Studio were disappointed and left the Studio after the assignment but the rest accepted the challenge.

-More difficulties than they thought in adapting to Gass games and worried Studio devs even wondering whether to restart or cancel.

-Bethasda forced to continue while various staff changes and new departures continued.

-MS buys Bethesda and has to decide what to do with the project. The project managers convince him that, with some adjustments, the game has potential and because is practically finished, so canceling would not be the best decision. Even less for MS and the controversy it would have generated.

-Problems closing game development and optimization. Content not finished for launch and decision to delay more than a year when it was supposed to be finished.....

I think the fault of each party is determined. That of those responsible for the project is also clear.

 

[Bridges]

It's true that this was clearly not the game Arkane Austin wanted to make. But it's also true that many studios owned by publishers are making the games the publishers want them to, not just whatever the developers want.

There is fault in many directions here, but Redfall is a uniquely bad experience in that it is supposed to be AAA but looks, sounds and feels like a Steam Early Access title (and a bad one at that).

Regardless, MS is stupid for letting Harvey go. They should've spotted him into a different studio or had him work with Lyon or something. MS has no idea how to hold onto big talent and it's one of their biggest flaws since they've been on the acquisition spree

 

[Shut0wen]

Disagree, plenty of great developers, filmmakers, musicians have a imperfect track record. A flawed/failed project it not the cause of one individual. Game development especially is build on luck and the right timing a lot the time. The right team with the right investors, the right publishers/producers. Blacksite being a perfect example of a project a project where he come on later, a project that was already fucked. Deus Ex 2 being the result because of the sales of DX1. Them wanting to focus on a console version to broaden the user base, but with a simulation heavy game type that is unfit for the consoles, but needing to make a case for Eidos to put stock in the project. Up until 2002 there was a PC only build from Deus Ex 2, and looked drastically different.


(Also DX2 is quite overhated, it has major problems but also stuff most games don't even try to do, especially not these days in this overly polished risk-avers era)

Game development, especially when you want to make ImmSims, can be an intense trainwreck and impressive when a game turns out good, let alone innovate or financially succeed.

But the games ge failed at are the only games hes worked on, i think hes a good writer but thats it, directing a game is just something he isnt good at, he had plenty of time to develop redfall and even if the game wasnt buggy it was still shit regardless

 

[Johnny Concrete]

Yes, the marketing strategy was to close down the studio.

Heheh, they pushed it too far.

 

[ByWatterson]

You mean burst of severance pay?

 

[HL3.exe]

But the games ge failed at are the only games hes worked on, i think hes a good writer but thats it, directing a game is just something he isnt good at, he had plenty of time to develop redfall and even if the game wasnt buggy it was still shit regardless

Fun fact: I actually think he's a terrible writer. But that not his forte. He's a 'systems designer' first. Layers of deterministic simulations on top op each other that create emergent gameplay.

Redfall was mostly a mandatory ask from Bethesda to make them more appealing for MS buy, and because their SP titles weren't selling. It a pivot, pitch by a a team who's not interested and inexperienced building a live service title (MP that needs to be server synced is already terrible to run determistic simulations on that are client synced), instead of building a single player immersive sim. So all the stuff that they where good at, couldn't work in their online services game. That's why it lacked vision. Your stuck with a project that you have no passion for. Bethesda really fucked up there.

Not saying Harvey is innocent, far from it, but I've worked in these types of context and it not that black and white as you think.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Oh no...now all the wrong lessons will be reenforced by this experience for him.

Just like suicide squad you could see this trash a mile away. Sucks you took forever making a shitty game. That's gotta be soul sucking

 

[Shut0wen]

Fun fact: I actually think he's a terrible writer. But that not his forte. He's a 'systems designer' first. Layers of deterministic simulations on top op each other that create emergent gameplay.

Redfall was mostly a mandatory ask from Bethesda to make them more appealing for MS buy, and because their SP titles weren't selling. It a pivot, pitch by a a team who's not interested and inexperienced building a live service title (MP that needs to be server synced is already terrible to run determistic simulations on that are client synced), instead of building a single player immersive sim. So all the stuff that they where good at, couldn't work in their online services game. That's why it lacked vision. Your stuck with a project that you have no passion for. Bethesda really fucked up there.

Not saying Harvey is innocent, far from it, but I've worked in these types of context and it not that black and white as you think.

Im calling bullshit on bethesda forcing them, arkane has been talking about multiplayer ever since they cancelled there multiplayer online game back in 06, i even remember harvey talking about dishonoured 2 ( before it was a thing) having experimental coop online which never happened, arkanes only flop has been prey, ehile dishonoured 2 sold reasonably well but not as well as the first game, redfall was harveys thing, not some game advertised for MS, i doubt any company would give to shits about arkane in any bethesda buyout, there money is in bethesda software and elder scrolls mmo the rest is pure bonus

 

[Dane]

The story behind the cameras was detailed in several articles by various media. Including the PS5 version that was planned/in development.

The timeline is known:

-After the PREY failure in sales and critic from the media (very different from that of the users) Bethesda commissioned them with a Gass game. People from the Studio were disappointed and left the Studio after the assignment but the rest accepted the challenge.

-More difficulties than they thought in adapting to Gass games and worried Studio devs even wondering whether to restart or cancel.

-Bethasda forced to continue while various staff changes and new departures continued.

-MS buys Bethesda and has to decide what to do with the project. The project managers convince him that, with some adjustments, the game has potential and because is practically finished, so canceling would not be the best decision. Even less for MS and the controversy it would have generated.

-Problems closing game development and optimization. Content not finished for launch and decision to delay more than a year when it was supposed to be finished.....

I think the fault of each party is determined. That of those responsible for the project is also clear.

I wouldn't be surprised if MS learned all the issues of Redfall from Jason Schreier's artcile, because many in the team wanted to cancel or reboot it entirely rather than selling the Idea they just needed a delay but never came with their issues forward to the executives. That's why they integrated Zenimax more into XGS in the reshuffle months later.

 

[HL3.exe]

Im calling bullshit on bethesda forcing them, arkane has been talking about multiplayer ever since they cancelled there multiplayer online game back in 06, i even remember harvey talking about dishonoured 2 ( before it was a thing) having experimental coop online which never happened, arkanes only flop has been prey, ehile dishonoured 2 sold reasonably well but not as well as the first game, redfall was harveys thing, not some game advertised for MS, i doubt any company would give to shits about arkane in any bethesda buyout, there money is in bethesda software and elder scrolls mmo the rest is pure bonus

Nobody said 'forcing', that's not how this work. 'Incentivizing'. Might wanna read up on some article's about the whole thing went down.

 

[Shut0wen]

Nobody said 'forcing', that's not how this work. 'Incentivizing'. Might wanna read up on some article's about the whole thing went down.

But arkane has been obsessed with multiplayer games for along time, look at the crossing, a cancellee game which ended up being closer to deathloop and they have said countless times that arkane wasnt an single player only stuido and we all know how it went down, arkane hired people that had no clue how to make the game

 

[simpatico]

I really hope this update is good. I plan on picking it up on a steep discount. The level design team did WORK. If they can attach even a lukewarm shooter to it, it would be worth my time to playthrough just for the art.

 

[LordCBH]

“Hey this shit is slightly less shit now” isn’t really a flex.

 

[Astray]

The story behind the cameras was detailed in several articles by various media. Including the PS5 version that was planned/in development.

The timeline is known:

-After the PREY failure in sales and critic from the media (very different from that of the users) Bethesda commissioned them with a Gass game. People from the Studio were disappointed and left the Studio after the assignment but the rest accepted the challenge.

-More difficulties than they thought in adapting to Gass games and worried Studio devs even wondering whether to restart or cancel.

-Bethasda forced to continue while various staff changes and new departures continued.

-MS buys Bethesda and has to decide what to do with the project. The project managers convince him that, with some adjustments, the game has potential and because is practically finished, so canceling would not be the best decision. Even less for MS and the controversy it would have generated.

-Problems closing game development and optimization. Content not finished for launch and decision to delay more than a year when it was supposed to be finished.....

I think the fault of each party is determined. That of those responsible for the project is also clear.

You are side-stepping the question by essentially repeating what you said earlier, what I was and still am asking about is your source for the bolded part.. Where exactly did it come out that the project managers convinced MS to continue on? Schreier's piece actually stated that the studio was rooting for the title to get cancelled.

Either there's a news article I don't know about, or you're describing a meeting that was never reported on. There's no third option here.