Artistic games you’re not allowed to criticise

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Folder

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ICO. It’s quite boring. Not really a step forward in digital art. Puzzle-driven platformer with an interesting mechanic.
REZ. It’s quite boring, nothing much happens. A stick man shoots stuff.
Lumines. An average puzzler.

However, because all these games have been slapped with the art tag, they suddenly transcend gaming boundaries and if you criticise them, you’re too stupid to get them properly.

You know the emperor? He’s got some great new threads I hear…

Please understand, I have played all three games above thoroughly, (Lumines less than perhaps I should) and enjoyed them all, as they’re all great games. But the militant protection offered by hardcore gamers to them is ridiculous.

Imagine if REZ for instance, had been released with a different, more traditional style sheet.

Or am I wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time? I think that Gran Turismo 3 is a more important gaming achievement that either REZ or ICO.

Thoughts?

:)
 
I hate ICO...not because it's boring or not...I really don't know, but the fact is that I can't find it. Since I bought a PS2 that this game evades me. Have seen it a couple of times and when I've returned to the place with the money it was already sold.
 
1.jpg


Just kidding.
 
ourumov said:
I hate ICO...not because it's boring or not...I really don't know, but the fact is that I can't find it. Since I bought a PS2 that this game evades me. Have seen it a couple of times and when I've returned to the place with the money it was already sold.
Click to expand...

Uh ever look online??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8170213347&rd=1

buy it now 16

:O

edit:

brand new buy it now 23

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62053&item=8169330618&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

:O
 
Tre said:
RE4, you just shoot zombies.
GT4, you just drive cars.
MGS3, you shoot people and snap necks.


You can do this all day, folks.
Click to expand...

Huh? How does that apply to the discussion at hand?
 
I enjoyed the heck out of Lumines for about two weeks, but it is very tedious once you start getting over 100k. The games take over an hour when you get that good, and for me, that's just too long to play a puzzler.
 
If Lumines is an average puzzle game, I'd like to see one that blows your fucking mind.
 
Unison said:
panzer_dragoon_orta_003.jpg
Click to expand...

YOU SIR HAVE CROSSED THE LINE.

Anyway, I agree with Rez. I don't own Lumines, so I can't comment on its longevity, but from what I've played, it's fun, but nowhere near as amazing as the people on here make it out to be.

ICO is one of my favorites, though. I thought the atmosphere, the music, the concept... Stellar. If you go into it with a lot of hype that it'll be moving or something, I guess I can understand disappointment.
 
Folder said:
ICO. It’s quite boring. Not really a step forward in digital art. Puzzle-driven platformer with an interesting mechanic.
REZ. It’s quite boring, nothing much happens. A stick man shoots stuff.
Lumines. An average puzzler.

However, because all these games have been slapped with the art tag, they suddenly transcend gaming boundaries and if you criticise them, you’re too stupid to get them properly.

You know the emperor? He’s got some great new threads I hear…

Please understand, I have played all three games above thoroughly, (Lumines less than perhaps I should) and enjoyed them all, as they’re all great games. But the militant protection offered by hardcore gamers to them is ridiculous.

Imagine if REZ for instance, had been released with a different, more traditional style sheet.

Or am I wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time? I think that Gran Turismo 3 is a more important gaming achievement that either REZ or ICO.

Thoughts?

:)
Click to expand...

I haven't played Rez or Lumines, nor do I plan to. Ico was a disappointment for me. Very pretty, but not my cup of tea, gameplay-wise. Way, way too over hyped for what it is. I think it does move the digital art form forward in an impressionistic-ish way.

Yes, GT3>Ico. That said, there are many games this gen >GT3. MP, RE4, ReMake, ZOE2, MGS3, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Ninja Gaiden, the list goes on.
 
I like Orta, just like I like Rez & Ico (to an extent). I just think it's as guilty as any game of being an unimpeachable fanboy fave.

Here's another:

hoshino2.jpg
 
Crankenstein said:
Yes, GT3>Ico. That said, there are many games this gen >GT3. MP, RE4, ReMake, ZOE2, MGS3, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Ninja Gaiden, the list goes on.
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I meant more in what it means for the level developers will aim when creating a game, the investment in time, money, dedication. It raised the bar to an unprecedented level at time of launch and produced something that literally changed the industry’s expectations of what id possible.
Soul4ger said:
ICO is one of my favorites, though. I thought the atmosphere, the music, the concept... Stellar. .
Click to expand...
ICO has no music.
What are you on about?
This kind of comment perfectly illustrates my point*






*Unless I'm very much mistaken. Which I don't think I am...
 
Unison said:
I like Orta, just like I like Rez & Ico (to an extent). I just think it's as guilty as any game of being an unimpeachable fanboy fave.

Here's another:

hoshino2.jpg
Click to expand...

You're just trying to stir the pot now, buddy.

*Edit - There's music at parts, folder, like the save music. And I think it's captivating.
 
Folder said:
ICO has no music.
What are you on about?
This kind of comment perfectly illustrates my point*

*Unless I'm very much mistaken. Which I don't think I am...
Click to expand...

That means you haven't finished it nor even played far enough. Although it is mostly ambience and background noise (eg. wind, sea waves), there are BGM at some points in the game, especially some battles and cut-scenes. The intro has a great guiter music "Castle in the Mist" and the ending theme "You were there".
 
ICO has no music??? -stares omniously at his ICO soundtrack-

Hmm... opinion a bit suspect I think :)

I love Rez because of the style/art/music (thus slightly validating your point), but I love ICO because of the game.
 
maskrider said:
That means you haven't finished it or even played far enough. Although it is mostly ambience and background noise (eg. wind, sea waves), there are BGM at some points in the game, especially some battles and cut-scenes. The intro has a great guiter music "Castle in the Mist" and the ending theme "You were there".
Click to expand...
I did finish the game!
*holds nose in air offended*
Just didn't remember any music.

Again, this thread is in part a (well intentioned) troll to see if it’s true and that you cannot, in some gaming circles, criticise some games, even though they have clear and well documented faults.

I think Lumines will stand as the single greatest Gamers’ New Clothes moment in history. Though like I said, perhaps I should play it more. Didn’t see it about to change, evolve into anything more though…
 
Folder said:
I did finish the game!
*holds nose in air offended*
Just didn't remember any music.

Again, this thread is in part a (well intentioned) troll to see if it’s true and that you cannot, in some gaming circles, criticise some games, even though they have clear and well documented faults.

I think Lumines will stand as the single greatest Gamers’ New Clothes moment in history. Though like I said, perhaps I should play it more. Didn’t see it about to change, evolve into anything more though…
Click to expand...

I replied to correct false info, I didn't even post my opinion nor countering anyone's opinion.

This sentense "That means you haven't finished it or even played far enough." is clearly a guess.

May be your memory failed you or you muted the sound.
 
Unison said:
EvilAnimalCrossing.jpg
Click to expand...
You miss the point friend.
No one ever offered Animal Crossing protection because it's arty. They offered it because it's hardcore. And that's another argument completely.
I always loved it but I live with someone right now who spends two hours a day in the world. I have actually been amazed. Sometimes it's difficult to tell, when she's telling you something, if she's referring to the real world or AC.
But again, the protection offered to AC stems from a different pretence I think…
With Vib Ribbon though, that’s on-topic.
:)
 
kitchenmotors said:
Dude, ICO has the best save music ever. How could you not hear music?
Click to expand...
Save music accounts for perhaps what, less than one percent of game time?
It was probably that. I did hammer the game over two days. So I guess I didn't hear it that often...
(And I have the swanky Euro extra-arty art cards version too)
:-P
 
Folder said:
ICO. It’s quite boring. Not really a step forward in digital art. Puzzle-driven platformer with an interesting mechanic.
REZ. It’s quite boring, nothing much happens. A stick man shoots stuff.
Lumines. An average puzzler.

However, because all these games have been slapped with the art tag, they suddenly transcend gaming boundaries and if you criticise them, you’re too stupid to get them properly.

You know the emperor? He’s got some great new threads I hear…

Please understand, I have played all three games above thoroughly, (Lumines less than perhaps I should) and enjoyed them all, as they’re all great games. But the militant protection offered by hardcore gamers to them is ridiculous.

Imagine if REZ for instance, had been released with a different, more traditional style sheet.

Or am I wrong? Wouldn’t be the first time? I think that Gran Turismo 3 is a more important gaming achievement that either REZ or ICO.

Thoughts?

:)
Click to expand...


What's ridiculous is people that don't understand that "art" is also something that can receive critism. What i feel to "protect" with these games it's their spirit. Those are honorable games that needs respect because they are made out of mostly just "creation will". Each and every single game should ever be made like this in a perfect world but in our poor world there's money so it's impossible... and that's also why we should respect and BUY those games when they are released.
 
Lumines is at heart an over-simple puzzle game, but the music is incredible and the art is synched up just right with the music. To tell you the truth that experience right there makes the game worth playing instead of the actual so-so puzzle game underneath. But the whole point of that game is that it was precisely designed as a medium through which to present art to the player, much like Rez was. The gameplay is merely the backdrop in this game, but it works as intended.

Every game at its heart can be described as "just something"... halo is just shooting guys, re4 is just shooting zombies, gt3 is just driving cars and so on.

Despite what some people would like to believe, the design of the gameplay alone is rarely the source of a game being good. Totally discounting the player's experience of the art, music, and presentation is missing out on 50 to 80 percent of what makes a game memorable.
 
Folder said:
You miss the point friend.
No one ever offered Animal Crossing protection because it's arty. They offered it because it's hardcore. And that's another argument completely.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that AC was an arty game... It certainly doesn't have great gameplay or anything... It's all about its atmosphere, such as it is.
 
Wyzdom said:
What's ridiculous is people that don't understand that "art" is also something that can receive critism. What i feel to "protect" with these games it's their spirit. Those are honorable games that needs respect because they are made out of mostly just "creation will".
Click to expand...
I totally agree.

However,

Wyzdom said:
Each and every single game should ever be made like this in a perfect world but in our poor world there's money so it's impossible... and that's also why we should respect and BUY those games when they are released.
Click to expand...
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas certainly wasn't made for these reasons. So, you think it should never have been made? Same goes for Halo 2, Half-Life 2, etc, etc...
 
For games you aren't supposed to criticize, Ico and Rez get criticised A LOT.

You wanna talk about the real sacred cows of the videogame world, it isn't the "art" games which have always had a fair share of haters. It's 1st-party Nintendo games (and, once upon a time, Sega first-party games). Especially Zelda. Ugh.
 
Unison said:
I was under the impression that AC was an arty game... It certainly doesn't have great gameplay or anything... It's all about its atmosphere, such as it is.
Click to expand...
I personally think it has negligible artistic merit. Like I said, it's ultra-hardcore, which lends it protection from middle-brow base-level gamer snobbery, rather than the "I can see the art in this, therefore nothing else" set...
 
I've always wanted to play Rez, because I think it's my kind of game, but I never have found a copy.

I rented Ico and thought it was beautiful, but I only played it for about half an hour before getting bored and never coming back to it.

Of course, it's funny that the original poster would mention Gran Turismo, since I think those are the most boring games of all.
 
I think Ico is bandied about too easily when the whole "games as art" discussion gets rolling. And I really like Rez, it's hard for me to see it as overrated. It is what it is, a fun, musical simplistic shooter. Is it more than that? It is what it is.

I'd agree that you can't have a very fruitful discussion about what happened to the Zelda series and whether those happenings are good...but WW developed a fair share of "hate".

Frankly nothing is immune on GAF. Nothing. Some games have more vocal fans and I don't know why that would surprise you. Spong was much more an ugly epithet here before you posted pretty pictures of your wife ;) Tides change.
 
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