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[elfinke]

i don't know if its true but apparently Aboriginal kids get paid to go to school.


Now there are some people (and seriously i dont want to get into this guys....) that argue that in itself is discrimination against caucasion children.

Yeah, I went to a high school that was 95% aboriginal attendance, and that was the case. They were directly paid to attend, as well as all the government benefits that went with it.

I didn't care then, I don't care now. Some of my friends had differing opinions though.

 

[reptilescorpio]

Don't all 16 year olds get paid to go to school with Youth Allowance?

We have a family friend who is 1/16th Aboriginal and is trying to bring back the language of the dead tribe even though the other descendants don't want her too and don't like her. The financial perks are nice for her at least, already paid off her house.

 

[Choc]

Don't all 16 year olds get paid to go to school with Youth Allowance?

no

 

[elfinke]

Don't all 16 year olds get paid to go to school with Youth Allowance?

We have a family friend who is 1/16th Aboriginal and is trying to bring back the language of the dead tribe even though the other descendants don't want her too and don't like her. The financial perks are nice for her at least, already paid off her house.

I never got a dollar from the gubnit to go to school or uni, ever.

 

[Choc]

The thing is and i don't want this to sound the wrong way but the traditional aboriginals of today don't get benefits, they don't even have bank accounts. They live in the wild in their tribes hunting and gathering in arnhem land.

Some might argue that those living in towns and western civlization are taking advantage of their status. I don't. I get that Aboriginal people have it tougher because of the racist nation that is Australia, and they do need help but I think that a small percentage of them have a real problem with white people and are in fact racist to white people.

Whenever they are on television arguing about something such as land rights they are always saying rather racist stuff about caucasions but that never gets aired or investigated.

 

[FallbackPants]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lockyer--its-his-way-the-highway-20110928-1kw7n.html

What? I love Locky as much as anyone, but why is a stretch of road between Toowoomba and Ipswich, two cities Darren Lockyer never had anything to do with being renamed in his honour?

A bit near Roma? Sure. Around Red Hill or Suncorp Stadium? Awesome. But this stretch makes no sense.

Also, it runs through the Lockyer Valley. The Lockyer Valley was named after Edmund Lockyer, an explorer. In 20 years time, no one will know that. They'll immediately associate the Lockyer Valley with Darren Lockyer, thanks in a huge part to this renaming.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Getting paid AusStudy or ABstudy as they are called is determined by the income of the parents, if the parents earn too much, neither Caucasian or Indigenous students will get the benefit.

My fiancee' is Aboriginal (maybe not according to Bolt), but she is white. Her father is black, her mother is white and even her brother is black. Basing Aboriginally on skin colour is ridiculous.

For the ignorant who claim "Aboriginals get all the benefits, white people get nothing", I think we have it pretty sweet with a much higher life expectancy, greater chance of educational outcomes, greater chance of job opportunities, less chance of domestic violence, less chance of substance abuse problems, greater family stability...the list goes on. It's so hard being discriminated against...

 

[reptilescorpio]

no

Don't all 16 year olds at high school whose parents aren't on a high income entitled to Youth Allowance?

 

[Choc]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/lockyer--its-his-way-the-highway-20110928-1kw7n.html

What? I love Locky as much as anyone, but why is a stretch of road between Toowoomba and Ipswich, two cities Darren Lockyer never had anything to do with being renamed in his honour?

A bit near Roma? Sure. Around Red Hill or Suncorp Stadium? Awesome. But this stretch makes no sense.

Also, it runs through the Lockyer Valley. The Lockyer Valley was named after Edmund Lockyer, an explorer. In 20 years time, no one will know that. They'll immediately associate the Lockyer Valley with Darren Lockyer, thanks in a huge part to this renaming.[/QUOTE]


I drove from Brisvegas to Toowoomba a few weeks back (man that range! 4 degrees in the middle of the day, go out of hte range, 26)

i'll admit Darren was in my head when i read lockyer valley. Not that its a good thing. In many ways its a bit of a disgrace given that its the area that got hammered by the floods last year.

 

[elfinke]

The thing is and i don't want this to sound the wrong way but the traditional aboriginals of today don't get benefits, they don't even have bank accounts. They live in the wild in their tribes hunting and gathering in arnhem land.

Some might argue that those living in towns and western civlization are taking advantage of their status. I don't. I get that Aboriginal people have it tougher because of the racist nation that is Australia, and they do need help but I think that a small percentage of them have a real problem with white people and are in fact racist to white people.

Whenever they are on television arguing about something such as land rights they are always saying rather racist stuff about caucasions but that never gets aired or investigated.

Fair point, and one that Australia isn't grown up enough to discuss yet.

To combine your thoughts in a neat way - I wish I had a dollar for every time I was called "a white, land grabbin' cunt" in high school; I'd be a millionaire. Then I could moan about my tax rates and my lack of philanthropic endeavours.

 

[Choc]

Getting paid AusStudy or ABstudy as they are called is determined by the income of the parents, if the parents earn too much, neither Caucasian or Indigenous students will get the benefit.

My fiancee' is Aboriginal (maybe not according to Bolt), but she is white. Her father is black, her mother is white and even her brother is black. Basing Aboriginally on skin colour is ridiculous.

For the ignorant who claim "Aboriginals get all the benefits, white people get nothing", I think we have it pretty sweet with a much higher life expectancy, greater chance of educational outcomes, greater chance of job opportunities, less chance of domestic violence, less chance of substance abuse problems, greater family stability...the list goes on. It's so hard being discriminated against...

some might say its the true definition of racism!

hey i wasn't claiming they dont deserve being helped. I was saying that they are sometimes very racist towards white people and get off scott free.

 

[midonnay]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2011/1103.html

bottom of the judgement are images of the articles that sparked the lawsuit.

 

[elfinke]

Don't all 16 year olds at high school whose parents aren't on a high income entitled to Youth Allowance?

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/ya_eligible.htm

Read about it yaself, bludger.

 

[Gazunta]

I got paid AusStudy to go to school, I went maybe like one day a week and even then only for a few hours, and spent all the money on comics and video games instead.

 

[Choc]

AGAIN not defending bolt but heres the thing

There was numerous articles in that austlii link talking about people being helped


the question now becomes to an extent if the person had not had aboriginal descent would they have been helped and if the answer is no, then you may very well argue that is discrimination against whites

So for example if it was to stop an aboriginal person going bankrupt for example, but they would let a white person just go bankrupt, ding ding, discrimination.

Again, Bolt is a tool but this is a question that needs to be discussed in a mature fashion. There is racism against whites the world over, the media is just to scared to publicise the facts.

edit:

FOR EXAMPLE

one of the articles mentions 'a gay white man' now lets forget that bolt bullshit, and get to the facts. An aboriginal man with a law degree gets a handout designed for aboriginals

sorry but a white person with a law degree aint getting handouts.

Look, i dont want to turn this stupid, and aboriginals deserve help but if they have law degrees give me a fucking break.

 

[Fredescu]

I got AusStudy too, so I guess I was "paid to go to school".

the question now becomes to an extent if the person had not had aboriginal descent would they have been helped and if the answer is no, then you may very well argue that is discrimination against whites

But AusStudy exists, so the answer isn't no, and you know it isn't no, so why even talk about it?

 

[Choc]

I got AusStudy too, so I guess I was "paid to go to school".


But AusStudy exists, so the answer isn't no, and you know it isn't no, so why even talk about it?

im not talking about ausstudy mate im talking about other stuff.

see edit.


edit

read http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2011/1103.7.jpg

point 14.

complaining about not being treated different as he is aboriginal. This is exactly what is ridiculous. They want equality, get it and then say no we need to be treated differently.

Sigh.


Australia just is not grown up enough to deal with this properly. Bolt is a tool, the articles are dumb, but there is also some ridiculous stuff being peddled.

 

[Fredescu]

im not talking about ausstudy mate im talking about other stuff.

If you want to debate "in a mature fashion" then provide some sort of source beyond "other stuff".

 

[reptilescorpio]

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/ya_eligible.htm

Read about it yaself, bludger.

I especially like how it is /payments/ya_eligible.htm
I think my parents got $120 a fortnight while I was in VCE. The joys of lower middle class (or upper lower class?)!

 

[Sutton Dagger]

some might say its the true definition of racism!

hey i wasn't claiming they dont deserve being helped. I was saying that they are sometimes very racist towards white people and get off scott free.

Yeah, I understand where you are coming from. As I am now part of an Aboriginal family I get to see both the positive and negative aspects of these communities. It is incredibly disappointing to see racism directed towards other nationalities from some of my partners older family members (sometimes white people who they call gubbas), I make sure I show my disapproval if it ever arises. You would think the oppressed and discriminated would realise that it isn't appropriate to commit the same acts...Unfortunately this is common with many in the older generation across all ethnicities, I'm hoping it dies off with them to be honest, but it doesn't look that way though with the media fuelling the 'Us' vs 'Them' propaganda.

 

[elfinke]

20. ... I am satisfied that Mr Bolt both understood and intended that imputations of that kind were conveyed by the newspaper articles he wrote.

Emphasis mine. My favourite part of the judgement, and also one of the more galling aspects of the issue.

I especially like how it is /payments/ya_eligible.htm
I think my parents got $120 a fortnight while I was in VCE. The joys of lower middle class (or upper lower class?)!

Haha, I noticed that too. Kind of want a relevant 'r' URL in there somewhere:

/payments/r/ya_eligible?.htm

 

[Choc]

If you want to debate "in a mature fashion" then provide some sort of source beyond "other stuff".

i've now provided 2 examples from the articles on austlii.

1. Aboriginal man given handout designed for aboriginals and said man has law degree....

2. Aboriginal man (the same man) complaining he was not treated differently and was treated the same as everyone else despite the fact he is aboriginal

 

[Yagharek]

So, videogames.

Makes me wish vook at least jokingly took the bait about the March release for Zelda.

 

[Deeku]

My heart skipped a beat when I read it.

 

[Fredescu]

i've now provided 2 examples from the articles on austlii.

1. Aboriginal man given handout designed for aboriginals and said man has law degree....

2. Aboriginal man (the same man) complaining he was not treated differently and was treated the same as everyone else despite the fact he is aboriginal

I have no idea how that answers my question for a source that Aboriginal children are paid to go to school in a manner that's different to how I was paid to go to school. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can be extremely sloppy with the truth, and you of all people asking for a "mature debate" about anything is a bit rich.

 

[elfinke]

So, videogames.

Makes me wish vook at least jokingly took the bait about the March release for Zelda.

I won't lie; I quickly googled your bait to see if I missed it...

/edit: damn it, keep forgetting words my sentences today :/

Spoiler

lol

 

[Sutton Dagger]

im not talking about ausstudy mate im talking about other stuff.

see edit.


edit

read http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2011/1103.7.jpg

point 14.

complaining about not being treated different as he is aboriginal. This is exactly what is ridiculous. They want equality, get it and then say no we need to be treated differently.

Sigh.


Australia just is not grown up enough to deal with this properly. Bolt is a tool, the articles are dumb, but there is also some ridiculous stuff being peddled.

The problem is that they are inherently treated differently and put at an immediate disadvantage by the very nature of society itself. The whole idea of 'cultural capital' immediately puts those claiming that white Australians are discriminated against on the back foot. We enter society 20m ahead in a 100m race compared to Indigenous students, redressing the balance is not discrimination.

 

[Choc]

I have no idea how that answers my question for a source that Aboriginal children are paid to go to school in a manner that's different to how I was paid to go to school. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can be extremely sloppy with the truth, and you of all people asking for a "mature debate" about anything is a bit rich.

as i said before. I heard that kids get paid to go to school who are aboriginal. Now, at the time i was young it was kids in the schoolground. i didnt know about ausstudy

i accept (and never denied) what you said about ausstudy, i moved on from that. My two examples were never designed to prove that there is a difference in payments

I think we are just getting confused fred.

 

[markot]

i've now provided 2 examples from the articles on austlii.

1. Aboriginal man given handout designed for aboriginals and said man has law degree....

2. Aboriginal man (the same man) complaining he was not treated differently and was treated the same as everyone else despite the fact he is aboriginal

The Austlii is a selective quote though >.<

 

[Choc]

The problem is that they are inherently treated differently and put at an immediate disadvantage by the very nature of society itself. The whole idea of 'cultural capital' immediately puts those claiming that white Australians are discriminated against on the back foot. We enter society 20m ahead in a 100m race compared to Indigenous students, redressing the balance is not discrimination.

but this guy is complaining that he did not suffer from that sutton

i mean that is bananas

 

[elfinke]

The problem is that they are inherently treated differently and put at an immediate disadvantage by the very nature of society itself. The whole idea of 'cultural capital' immediately puts those claiming that white Australians are discriminated against on the back foot. We enter society 20m ahead in a 100m race compared to Indigenous students, redressing the balance is not discrimination.

Nice post, echoes arguments I've had against the hyperbolic 'reverse racism' crowd. Of course, it can go to far, but that just to your overarching point of 'balance'.

And just to reiterate my earlier post, I knew kids who were given a separate payment from the indigenous community altogether to attend school.

 

[jambo]

Is discrimination the new buzz word?

I might turn up to the next ladies night at the local pub and shout at them for discriminating against me when I don't get cheap drinks.

 

[Choc]

Redressing the balance is not discrimination i agree. Aboriginals deserve help, i agree.

but when you have an aboriginal person complaining they were NOT discriminated against, the line is drawn

 

[evlcookie]

What the fuck just happened in book 2 of book 3 in a song of ice and fire.

Shit just got real or something! A double what the fuck. Spoilers

Spoiler

So robb and cat are dead and now arya? There will be no starks left, which sucks.

Now 13 boxes just turned up, Guess i have work to do

 

[reptilescorpio]

i've now provided 2 examples from the articles on austlii.

1. Aboriginal man given handout designed for aboriginals and said man has law degree....

2. Aboriginal man (the same man) complaining he was not treated differently and was treated the same as everyone else despite the fact he is aboriginal

Every race of people have people who act for themselves rather than do the right thing. I work in public housing and come across dozens of people every day that aren't aboriginal (well, some are some aren't, some are other races too) that rip the system off and pay $30 a week for rent while smashing the shit out of the house and spending their days drunk doing drugs. We as a species run the gamut of good to bad.

 

[markot]

but this guy is complaining that he did not suffer from that sutton

i mean that is bananas

He is complaining that he was not discriminated against due to the luck, essentially, that he did not inherit the genes that would make him black, yet the very same people who had the misfortune to be 'black' in the same scenario, or any, would have completely different expectations, treatment, discrimination... etc...

He is saying he is mad due to that fact which he grew up with, not that he was not discriminated against.

Also he is saying its a personal issue that he had to deal with growing up. How could it not be?

 

[Choc]

Is discrimination the new buzz word?

I might turn up to the next ladies night at the local pub and shout at them for discriminating against me when I don't get cheap drinks.

a bloke took fernwood to the anti discrimination court and lost because for some reason and all female gym is not discrimination

Someone tried to start an all male gym and got done in the anti discrimination court

i mean, that is farcical lol

 

[Yagharek]

I won't lie; I quickly googled your bait to see if I missed it...

/edit: damn it, keep forgetting words my sentences today :/

Spoiler

lol

Yeah sorry about that. I did try to make it at least outlandish enough to not be really believable. I guess Super Paper Mario still is a weeping wound.

 

[Fredescu]

as i said before. I heard that kids get paid to go to school who are aboriginal. Now, at the time i was young it was kids in the schoolground. i didnt know about ausstudy

Schoolyard anecdotes have no place in "mature debate".

 

[Kerrby]

Joy of Sets massive bomba ;_;

You want massive bomba? Good News World - 241K.

 

[Choc]

Schoolyard anecdotes have no place in "mature debate".

the mature debate was not around ausstudy, just in general that sometimes, occasionally, white people suffer racism and its never reported or investigated

 

[Choc]

He is complaining that he was not discriminated against due to the luck, essentially, that he did not inherit the genes that would make him black, yet the very same people who had the misfortune to be 'black' in the same scenario, or any, would have completely different expectations, treatment, discrimination... etc...

He is saying he is mad due to that fact which he grew up with, not that he was not discriminated against.

Also he is saying its a personal issue that he had to deal with growing up. How could it not be?

well if thats the case, than I get it. I guess its the way Bolt worded it all.

 

[elfinke]

Schoolyard anecdotes have no place in "mature debate".

High School was a long time ago so I have no way of digging up records to prove my claims. But it happened. It was only like $8 a day or something I think (basically lunch money), but it was given on the proviso these kids attended school, and didn't loiter around in the town.

From what I remember, it didn't work fantastically well lol.

 

[Echoplx]

 

[elfinke]

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/shutter-goes-down-on-video-killing-fields-war-game-for-camera-buffs-20110928-1kwdu.html

The game, Warco, puts players in the shoes of a war correspondent - a novel take on the first person shooter genre that could perhaps only be pulled off by a trio as diverse as this. Despite offering a different type of shooting than most players are used to, they promise the game will be "more effecting than the average war game".

Anyone know more about this than the article lets on? Sounds good!

 

[Jintor]

The Clubs NSW bullshit against pokies reform is really getting me down

http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/shutter-goes-down-on-video-killing-fields-war-game-for-camera-buffs-20110928-1kwdu.html



Anyone know more about this than the article lets on? Sounds good!

It's been bopping around for at least a month now. Leigh Harris of MVC AU was the first to cover it, as far as I know.

 

[reptilescorpio]

High School was a long time ago so I have no way of digging up records to prove my claims. But it happened. It was only like $8 a day or something I think (basically lunch money), but it was given on the proviso these kids attended school, and didn't loiter around in the town.

From what I remember, it didn't work fantastically well lol.

Other outback schools have other incentives, like showing movies or tv shows during school hours if the kids turn up or access to computers and such. Which is a much better idea than money.

 

[Jintor]

What the fuck just happened in book 2 of book 3 in a song of ice and fire.

Shit just got real or something! A double what the fuck. Spoilers

Spoiler

So robb and cat are dead and now arya? There will be no starks left, which sucks.

Now 13 boxes just turned up, Guess i have work to do

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Choc]

The Clubs NSW bullshit against pokies reform is really getting me down




It's been bopping around for at least a month now. Leigh Harris of MVC AU was the first to cover it, as far as I know.

this was on the abc the other day

it sounds fucking awesome. They talked about a scenario where you land in afghanistan in the middle of a firefight and have the opportunity to cover that battle in progress and try not to get shot, or continnue on to another story which may be bigger

 

[EatChildren]

On a completely different topic, one not related to a stupid ass discussion involving that cretinous piss stain Andrew Bolt and, err, Aboriginals, the place is good to go. Documents are being signed tomorrow. Soon I will be a happy resident in the 'burbs of Heidelberg Heights.

I cant wait to spend all my time inside playing video games.