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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Sega Sammy Holdings recently published a summary of a shareholders' Q&A session that took place during the company's second quarter financial briefing for the fiscal year ending March 2026. As reported by GameBiz, the Q&A session covered a range of topics, including a sudden drop in sales of catalogue titles (games released during past fiscal years) compared to the previous year, and revenue fluctuations largely impacted by some of Sega's new full-price and free-to-play titles. Namely, it was brought up that Sega has released a number of critically acclaimed titles in the past couple of years, but despite the positive reception and high praise for their quality, sales performance fell short of expectations.

Addressing the issue, Sega explained that some of the possible causes could be the presence of rival titles in the same genres, as well as the games' initial pricings. The company also pointed out that players expecting "definitive editions" of games to be released in the future could be what's making them hesitant to buy the titles at launch. "While we haven't been able to pinpoint a precise cause of [the lower-than-expected sales performance], we believe the problem also lies in our marketing, which wasn't able to sufficiently convey the appeal of our games to users," said Sega's spokespersons, reassuring investors that they are currently analyzing the problem.

While the underperforming titles in question weren't specified, players in Japan theorize the "definitive edition" problem could likely be linked to games developed by Atlus. As one of the more recent examples, Shin Megami Tensei V was released in late 2021, and an updated version, Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance, launched in mid-2024, less than 3 years later. This seems to be the standard pattern for many of Atlus' new releases, including the Persona series.

When it comes to sales, Atlus' critically acclaimed RPG Metaphor: ReFantzio sold 1 million units on day one, which was an incredible feat for Sega. However, the title witnessed a sharper drop in sales post-launch, reaching 2 million units only around half a year after its debut (as reported by GameRant). Of course, there are various different factors contributing to how dales fluctuate, but it does seem like some players are waiting for a "definitive edition" of the game to drop in a couple of years – hence the hesitation to buy the base game.

Sega is aware its past “definitive version” releases could be deterring players from buying games at launch - AUTOMATON WEST

Sega’s full-price games aren’t selling much compared to how highly they’re rated, and the company cites "definitive editions" as one of the possible reasons.

automaton-media.com

 

[Baemono]

 

[Punished Miku]

"Sega's full-price games aren't selling much compared to how highly they're rated"

So drop the rating down a bit and then everything is fixed. I think Metaphor is currently a 94 on MC.

 

[ReyBrujo]

At least in the Switch circles you can see people waiting for them, yeah. People want the full game with all DLC included in the cartridge and sometimes wait until it is launched, especially if their backlog is large. Not sure why they just don't buy it and then sell it to get the definitive version, though. And in the specific case of Switch there are some countries which have cartridges but don't have an eshop (like the Middle East region) so Nintendo launches cartridges with all the patches and DLC in them (like Pokémon Scarlet plus all DLC in cartridge, which other regions don't have), some collectors wait for that one (though they aren't the most).

 

[Da1337Vinci]

Metaphor is cool and new IP and all.
But where are the waifus at though?

 

[Metnut]

These Atlus RPGs are already too long and bloated. Who needs the "definitive" edition with another 15-20 hours of content pushing these mostly linear games well over 100 hours to completion?

 

[BlackTron]

Big brain Nintendo figured it out: never release a definitive edition. Even now you have to buy the DLC for BOTW separately. On top of the Switch 2 Edition.

On the one hand, they suck. On the other hand, if the next Zelda is a complete quality game on the cart, there's no reason to wait a day, because a better deal is never coming lol.

They know how to stay focused on the long game, I give them that.

 

[mayham2199]

Strange always seemed like Sega was doing amazing. Not surprising though so many choices these days.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

In my opinion, the reason is the lack of a console. People don't feel like they're taking home a top-tier product because it can be found everywhere.
Sega games lack the necessary fomo that's the reason.

 

[StereoVsn]

How about you release an actual brand new Persona game, Sega? Milking old versions and making Temu Persona will only take you so far.

P5 released as cross gen PS3/PS4 game in 2016. It's been 9 years.

Edit: Oh and get a proper Total War historical game out like fans keep asking. New Medieval or Empire would sell well.

 

[ReBurn]

Games not being worth $70 at launch is the main deterrent to me buying games at launch. Most of the time the definitive edition on sale was the right price all along.

 

[Crew511A]

In my opinion, the reason is the lack of a console. People don't feel like they're taking home a top-tier product because it can be found everywhere.
Sega games lack the necessary fomo that's the reason.

Is it time for a Dreamcast 2 thread?

Maybe another reason is Sega simultaneously doesn't innovate and also doesn't treat their old IPs with respect. They find a way to alienate their old fans, and bore the prospective new ones.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

So they're aware but not planning on changing that strategy? Interesting.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Is it time for a Dreamcast 2 thread?

It's not necessary, I've already created some that might be relevant to this, but I'm not stating anything definitively. We'll soon see rumors about this nonsense again; there's always that.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I'm one of those non buynary ones. I felt stupid with Persona 5 and Catherine. No more.

 

[Fbh]

That's basically what I do.
And by the time they actually release the proper complete edition it's been a couple of years and there's no more hype, so at that point I just wait another 6-8 months to buy it on sale.

Ironically, if they did what other studios like Fromsoft or CDPR do and actually had proper DLC/Expansions, I'd likely buy their games at launch and then give them another $30 for the DLC. Instead, I buy their games several years later for $30 or less.

These Atlus RPGs are already too long and bloated. Who needs the "definitive" edition with another 15-20 hours of content pushing these mostly linear games well over 100 hours to completion?

Atlus games are really bloated, yeah.
But the definitive edition isn't usually about adding another 20 hours of content. It's more about adding quality of live improvements, new mechanics and new content without significantly extending the game, thus improving the pacing, which is another issue with many OG Atlus releases.

Check howlongtobeat for the main story length:
Persona 4 73 hours
Persona 4 Golden 68 hours
Persona 5 98 hours
Persona 5 royal 101 hours
SMTV 46 hours
SMTV Vengeance 45 hours

 

[diffusionx]

Releasing Persona 5 for PS4, and then a new separate Royal release for PS4, and then another separate release for PS5 to get 60fps, is totally absurd and insulting.

Most companies have moved away from this nonsense and have benefitted from it. I don't have to buy five versions of Street Fighter 6 to keep up.

Is it time for a Dreamcast 2 thread?

don't tempt him

 

[nial]

Big brain Nintendo figured it out: never release a definitive edition. Even now you have to buy the DLC for BOTW separately. On top of the Switch 2 Edition.

On the one hand, they suck. On the other hand, if the next Zelda is a complete quality game on the cart, there's no reason to wait a day, because a better deal is never coming lol.

They know how to stay focused on the long game, I give them that.

That's objectively bad as well, though? Atlus' definitive editions are bad because you can't often upgrade to the new content if you own the vanilla title, you need to buy the whole game again.

 

[MMaRsu]

Metaphor is so mediocre compared to SMT and Persona.

I get it

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

It also doesn't help that their games are released as keycards on Switch 2

 

[EverydayBeast]

Ah Sega

 

[BlackTron]

That's objectively bad as well, though? Atlus' definitive editions are bad because you can't often upgrade to the new content if you own the vanilla title, you need to buy the whole game again.

Every "version" of handling games being completed slowly after their release is bad in some form or another.

I'm just recognizing how long-term planning runs all their decisions.

 

[nial]

Every "version" of handling games being completed slowly after their release is bad in some form or another.

I'm just recognizing how long-term planning runs all their decisions.

You still have the option of accessing to such new content if you own the base game in the vast majority of cases, in some cases way earlier if definitive editions release later on and not concurrently with DLC. It's essentially no different from, say, paying full price for a game at launch rather than buying it discounted months later, you're not getting fucked just by not buying it well after the fact, you're just paying to play it as soon as you want.
With Atlus' definitive edtions? You're getting fucked either way. It's a completely different scenario.

 

[cireza]

Especially when looking at Atlus, most of their re-releases have been shit.

Etrian Odyssey Untold 1 & 2 : bloats the game, grimoires suck.
Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology : everything that was added is shit, character design was inferior to the original, visuals not even improved, not in 3D.
Strange Journey Redux : everything that was added was unnecessary, simply helped putting a ass on the cover, framerate was inferior to DS, not even in 3D, text was blurry and harder to read than on DS.
Catherine Full Body : everything that was added sucked, and they even managed to add cutscenes that kind of killed the suspense for the two initial girls.
Persona 4 Golden : haven't played the original, but I remember of an abysmal bad dungeon that was mainly yellow, where you would not gain any exp and just waste your time, and I believe it was added.

So yeah, just stop re-releasing games, thanks.

 

[Hudo]

"Sega's full-price games aren't selling much compared to how highly they're rated"

So drop the rating down a bit and then everything is fixed. I think Metaphor is currently a 94 on MC.

I do like Metaphor and I had a good time with it. But I also think it is not a 9/10 game. It's a solid 8/10, or rather 8.3/10.0, to be more precise. I expected it to be more daring and different. It's essentially Persona but fantasy. It still works. But given for how long it was in development and how they initially talked about how they're playing D&D sessions to "get the feel for fantasy and adventure", I expected... more. And the dungeons were disappointing, tbh. I expected better designed, less generic dungeon crawling. The most memorable one was the ceremony dungeon, where you get Eupha. The fog mechanic was an interesting change, and the ruins of the modern world being down below in that dungeon was an interesting story twist.

And the soundtrack is Meguro's weakest work, imho. And also: No waifus. No setting is more fitting than fantasy for having waifus.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Especially when looking at Atlus, most of their re-releases have been shit.

Etrian Odyssey Untold 1 & 2 : bloats the game, grimoires suck.
Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology : everything that was added is shit, character design was inferior to the original, visuals not even improved, not in 3D.
Strange Journey Redux : everything that was added was unnecessary, simply helped putting a ass on the cover, framerate was inferior to DS, not even in 3D, text was blurry and harder to read than on DS.
Catherine Full Body : everything that was added sucked, and they even managed to add cutscenes that kind of killed the suspense for the two initial girls.
Persona 4 Golden : haven't played the original, but I remember of an abysmal bad dungeon that was mainly yellow, where you would not gain any exp and just waste your time, and I believe it was added.

So yeah, just stop re-releasing games, thanks.

They also tend to screw with the difficulty in some of those re-releases. Persona 4 Golden always stuck out to me in that regard, because the braindead difficulty was a really disappointing step back from the more challenging original. There are just too many concessions granted to the player that smooth out the experience, but reduce the satisfaction of progress. I wish people would learn to look beyond "hey, more content!" in evaluating whether these "upgraded" re-releases are actually better.

 

[Witchilich]

Nintendoes what Sega don't. Games playable from start to finish from a cartridge without any day one patch. Well except for Gamefreak.

 

[DeVeAn]

Par for the course. SEGA Saturn was great too many didn't care. Dreamcast was pure gamers console too many didn't care. Sometimes you can make awesome shit and not enough people care.

Also, there are so many releases now it's so easy for titles to get skipped/ lost.

 

[semiconscious]

thanks for reminding me how stupid-looking hulkenberg's ears are...

Especially when looking at Atlus, most of their re-releases have been shit.

Etrian Odyssey Untold 1 & 2 : bloats the game, grimoires suck.
Radiant Historia Perfect Chronology : everything that was added is shit, character design was inferior to the original, visuals not even improved, not in 3D.
Strange Journey Redux : everything that was added was unnecessary, simply helped putting a ass on the cover, framerate was inferior to DS, not even in 3D, text was blurry and harder to read than on DS.
Catherine Full Body : everything that was added sucked, and they even managed to add cutscenes that kind of killed the suspense for the two initial girls.
Persona 4 Golden : haven't played the original, but I remember of an abysmal bad dungeon that was mainly yellow, where you would not gain any exp and just waste your time, and I believe it was added.

So yeah, just stop re-releasing games, thanks.

i like this post. particularly the bolded part...

 

[zedim]

i know most people might be against me on this, but the real reason metaphor sold "poorly" was because of its graphics. its the engine of persona 5 which in itself was a ps3 engine.
The art is great but it looks too outdated for a ps5 game, even shin megami tensei v which is a switch title looks better.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

i know most people might be against me on this, but the real reason metaphor sold "poorly" was because of its graphics.

I agree. Sega's games have been stuck at Switch 1 levels. And then they ask, "Why are we selling so few?" There must be a reason why Assassin's Creed Shadows, even though it's a game persecuted by incel activists, sold well enough to remain relevant. Sega doesn't sell well because, unlike Assassin's Creed, its games are two generations outdated.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

They also tend to screw with the difficulty in some of those re-releases. Persona 4 Golden always stuck out to me in that regard, because the braindead difficulty was a really disappointing step back from the more challenging original. There are just too many concessions granted to the player that smooth out the experience, but reduce the satisfaction of progress. I wish people would learn to look beyond "hey, more content!" in evaluating whether these "upgraded" re-releases are actually better.

That and Marie (that was her name right?) was fucking terrible. Kind of the reason I didn't get Royal, I don't think I would like that new character.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

That and Marie (that was her name right?) was fucking terrible. Kind of the reason I didn't get Royal, I don't think I would like that new character.

Ah, totally forgot about her. She didn't really bother me as much as she did some, but her presence kinda did feel like subtraction by addition. It kind of cheapened the Velvet Room by infusing too much of it into the real world.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

In the specific case of Metaphor, it's just not a very good game and poor word of mouth after release gave it very weak legs and it sold badly after the launch

Compare that to how well Clair Obscur Expedition 33 has been doing after its launch for example

 

[Hudo]

Is that Etrian Odyssey game they teased years ago still in development?

 

[xrnzaaas]

Maybe Metaphor: ReFantzio isn't such a great game despite the media pushing it to be one of the goty contenders last year?

Besides they did it to themselves, Persona 5 buyers kept getting screwed as new bigger & better performing versions kept getting released. They should've moved on to Persona 6 or make some brand new spinoffs of the series.

 

[cireza]

Is that Etrian Odyssey game they teased years ago still in development?

No idea. I did pick the I II III collection on Switch, haven't played it yet. I fear that the map function is going to be super bad though. At least we are not getting the added bloat from the Untold games.

 

[Hudo]

No idea. I did pick the I II III collection on Switch, haven't played it yet. I fear that the map function is going to be super bad though. At least we are not getting the added bloat from the Untold games.

I just hope that Yuzo Koshiro is going to do the soundtrack again.

 

[BlackTron]

In my opinion, the reason is the lack of a console. People don't feel like they're taking home a top-tier product because it can be found everywhere.
Sega games lack the necessary fomo that's the reason.

Does this apply to every third party without hardware as well? You know, EVERY company making games, minus like 3? I think this conclusion was found before the path leading to it.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Does this apply to every third party without hardware as well? You know, EVERY company making games, minus like 3 ?

This doesn't apply to all third party because it stems from the genesis of those companies.
Activision was the first and most successful third-party company, followed by others, these companies would lose money by limiting themselves to just one platform. Sega on the other hand never managed to establish itself as a powerful third-party company because its games lost value after the transition from first-party to third-party and remembering that era only worsens Sega's situation today, because anyone who played Shenmue at launch isn't going to be thrilled with games made with assets that fit on the Switch 1. imho ofc.

 

[BlackTron]

This doesn't apply to all third party because it stems from the genesis of those companies.
Activision was the first and most successful third-party company, followed by others, these companies would lose money by limiting themselves to just one platform. Sega on the other hand never managed to establish itself as a powerful third-party company because its games lost value after the transition from first-party to third-party and remembering that era only worsens Sega's situation today, because anyone who played Shenmue at launch isn't going to be thrilled with games made with assets that fit on the Switch 1. imho ofc.

So if Sega made their own console, people would buy games with Switch 1 assets on it?

A massive span of time has passed since Sega pulled out of hardware (somewhere around your birth year). Sega can not, should not stake their business solely on people with enough memory to be discouraged that their games aren't exclusive "anymore". Who even remembers other than old farts?

What's the difference between an Activision and SEGA game for PS5 side by side on the shelf in 2025? People remembering Sega used to have a console and now they don't? Really?

Sonic Adventure is Dreamcast's best selling game, at around a million. Sonic Heroes, the first multi-platform-engine, wide reach Sonic for Sony MSFT and Nintendo, sold 3-4million. And this is immediately after they pulled out of hardware, when it was still fresh. And I hate that game.

"Devalued"

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

So if Sega made their own console, people would buy games with Switch 1 assets on it?

If you continue acting this way, I will have to end any dialogue with you; I have no patience for those who use sophistry.
It's self-evident that a new console from the company would put an end to low-budget games. You don't need to quote me again in this thread.

 

[Killer8]

Sounds like they're just complaining that people have cottoned on to them trying to sell us effectively the same game twice.

Whether you buy the original release, or the definitive edition later, shouldn't really matter to them from a sales point of view - it's still a sale of the game, albeit at a delayed time and via a different version. Actually, in some ways that should suit them, as late adopters would opt for the more expensive definitive release rather than the heavily discounted original.

It's not like these definitive releases are that resource intensive to develop either. It's a sprinkling of a few dozen extra hours and some new features on top of a 100 hour RPG which was already fully developed.

Also, it's funny how the definitive edition is classed as a separate thing on their books, becoming this point of contention when complaining about the sales cannibalism between versions. Yet when it comes to celebrating a game's success, they all get lumped together as "Persona 5 series":



Curious that...

 

[BlackTron]

If you continue acting this way, I will have to end any dialogue with you; I have no patience for those who use sophistry.
It's self-evident that a new console from the company would put an end to low-budget games. You don't need to quote me again in this thread.

I get it now, you're saying that if Sega games had their own exclusive console, Sega would invest more in the games, making them better.

I thought the context was discussing why existing games, which review well, don't sell, and the argument appeared to be a FOMO difference due to non-exclusive status.

This isn't unleashing "sophistry" on you, it's deciphering your own meaning. But okay, last quote ITT

 

[Holammer]

I stopped buying Civilization games because they need a few years of DLC before it's finished and those can change how the game works on a fundamental level.

 

[StereoVsn]

Maybe Metaphor: ReFantzio isn't such a great game despite the media pushing it to be one of the goty contenders last year?

Besides they did it to themselves, Persona 5 buyers kept getting screwed as new bigger & better performing versions kept getting released. They should've moved on to Persona 6 or make some brand new spinoffs of the series.

Yeah, we had PG PS5 release on PS3/PS4. Then Royal full priced for PS4. Followed by another Royal full priced for PS5/XSX/Switch and PC release in between there.

And they had too many spin offs! There was the 3DS game (second one), SRPG, and Musou!

They should have had P6 out by now but instead we had P3 Remake (pretty good job to be fair, but it's still P3). And that didn't have FMC route at all and Answer was a separate buy as part of the Season Pass. Now they are working on P4 Remake.

And Metaphor just didn't hit the right way. It was kind of decent to good but not great game after all that time.

So basically all their issues (don't get me started on Total War either) are self inflicted.

 

[March Climber]

I think they are one of the last companies left who are still following this old way of re-releasing entire games with added DLC as a separate purchase.

It was a great moment in time when Capcom finally bent the knee and simply started putting out DLC so that same game purchase would just turn into the Gold edition.