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[tsumake]

Why not celebrate the outliers of cinema? It’s where all the interesting shit happens.

First example: Scorpio Rising



Arguably the precursor to the music video. Wild, subversive, transgressive. Interestingly, Scorsese may have been influenced by this film with Goodfellas: the constant barrage of 50s music is similar to this film.

How about a little early Bunuel? Un Chien Andalou:



Fun fact: the eyeball scene was done by the editor.

More to come.

 

[teezzy]

Most of it is pretentious bullshit which totally forgets to actually entertain its audience

 

[tsumake]

Most of it is pretentious bullshit which totally forgets to actually entertain its audience

How is it pretentious?

 

[tsumake]

How about someone who influenced David Lynch?

Maya Deren - Meshes of the Afternoon



While important for its symbolism, I prefer her film “At Land”



Also, her work with dancers is interesting.



It kind of affirms my view that women make excellent editors - they have a keen eye for patterns and visual rhythm.

 

[teezzy]

T tsumake

I used to be really into this stuff in my youth. Went to film school. Worked on sets. Made my own short films and music videos etc

In retrospect, technique is important. Breaking the rules is important. Dudes like John Waters and Godard are legends for that very reason. Most punk rock filmmakers ever.

You know what's even more important though? Entertaining your audience and having an engaging story. All the bells and whistles ain't worth a damn without that imho.

The best movies do both. Maybe I've wrecked my attention span over the years, but I really think this sorta thing is all gravy without some solid meat and potatoes to back it up.

I'd rather watch paint dry than sit through anything dudes like Ken Anger or Nick Zedd farted out... and they're way more interesting than some of the slow paced drivel other film nerds wank to

Idk, my tastes changed. Wasn't tryna poo poo your thread. My apologies, genuinely.

 

[BouncyFrag]

 

[tsumake]

T tsumake

I used to be really into this stuff in my youth. Went to film school. Worked on sets. Made my own short films and music videos etc

In retrospect, technique is important. Breaking the rules is important. Dudes like John Waters and Godard are legends for that very reason. Most punk rock filmmakers ever.

You know what's even more important though? Entertaining your audience and having an engaging story. All the bells and whistles ain't worth a damn without that imho.

The best movies do both. Maybe I've wrecked my attention span over the years, but I really think this sorta thing is all gravy without some solid meat and potatoes to back it up.

I'd rather watch paint dry than sit through anything dudes like Ken Anger or Nick Zedd farted out... and they're way more interesting than some of the slow paced drivel other film nerds wank to

Idk, my tastes changed. Wasn't tryna poo poo your thread. My apologies, genuinely.

Hmm.

I’ve been diving into films that are supposed to entertain. They all use the same techniques to “entertain” you, never diverging in approach. These experimental films explore other approaches. Where do you think these “punk filmmakers” got their inspiration from?

Shooting coverage and money shots gets boring.

There is always much, much more to explore in a medium. I take it when you were making films you saw this, correct?

 

[teezzy]

Hmm.

I’ve been diving into films that are supposed to entertain. They all use the same techniques to “entertain” you, never diverging in approach. These experimental films explore other approaches. Where do you think these “punk filmmakers” got their inspiration from?

Shooting coverage and money shots gets boring.

There is always much, much more to explore in a medium. I take it when you were making films you saw this, correct?

Their inspiration?

Godard: Mostly American noir flicks and some early Bergman, particularly Summer with Monika

Waters: Herschell Gordon Lewis and Russ Meyer movies for starters

And yes, they were both very transgressive and punk rock. Most experimental filmmaking is.

Nothing wrong with exploring the boundaries of an artistic medium, but it seems awfully superficial without a solid narrative attached. You shouldn't underestimate the amount of effort it takes to compose a coherent narrative.

Like I said though, you're trying to celebrate video art or whatever here. I don't have much else to say

 

[Soodanim]

I’m not massively into regular films, let alone this stuff. Part watched, part skipped through a couple from the OP and I don’t really get it. Maybe I missed the important bits, but I saw randomness seemingly for the sake of randomness.

Is this sort of experimental cinema the equivalent of fashion shows? You’re not supposed to wear what they wear on catwalks, they’re exaggerated to show off the concepts. Later that designers take from them and make a product that incorporates those ideas into a finished product that has the things you expect from clothing, like comfort and utility.

 

[INC]

More art house but I love this film

 

[teezzy]

I’m not massively into regular films, let alone this stuff. Part watched, part skipped through a couple from the OP and I don’t really get it. Maybe I missed the important bits, but I saw randomness seemingly for the sake of randomness.

Is this sort of experimental cinema the equivalent of fashion shows? You’re not supposed to wear what they wear on catwalks, they’re exaggerated to show off the concepts. Later that designers take from them and make a product that incorporates those ideas into a finished product that has the things you expect from clothing, like comfort and utility.

A lot of it is celebrated for technical innovation and discovering new cinematography/editing techniques which would later become industry standard. Other stuff tries to tell stories or convey themes symbolically through imagery etc

Agreed though. It's a chore to sit through a lot of it. Sorta like how some people won't shut up about old Colecovision games, but it's like "Yeah dude, we have Apex Legends now though."

 

[tsumake]

I’m not massively into regular films, let alone this stuff. Part watched, part skipped through a couple from the OP and I don’t really get it. Maybe I missed the important bits, but I saw randomness seemingly for the sake of randomness.

Is this sort of experimental cinema the equivalent of fashion shows? You’re not supposed to wear what they wear on catwalks, they’re exaggerated to show off the concepts. Later that designers take from them and make a product that incorporates those ideas into a finished product that has the things you expect from clothing, like comfort and utility.

It’s meant to be something you experience, just like any art form. Granted, watching them on small screen dilutes the experience. They are different, which is the point. I’m glad you tried to watch them.

 

[tsumake]

More art house but I love this film

Cool. I’m not a fan of Aronofsky, but it’s nice to venture off the beaten path. I recommend seeing his first film “Pi.”

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

Maybe Jim Jarmusch, David Lynch, Gaspar Noè fall in this category

 

[tsumake]

A lot of it is celebrated for technical innovation and discovering new cinematography/editing techniques which would later become industry standard. Other stuff tries to tell stories or convey themes symbolically through imagery etc

Agreed though. It's a chore to sit through a lot of it. Sorta like how some people won't shut up about old Colecovision games, but it's like "Yeah dude, we have Apex Legends now though."

Comparing art films to Colecovision is one of the most absurd things I read. It has nothing to with technical prowess at all - you can recreate these films on Windows Movie Maker.

It’s perfectly fine if you find this stuff boring. Go forth and make entertainment.

 

[Soodanim]

It’s meant to be something you experience, just like any art form. Granted, watching them on small screen dilutes the experience. They are different, which is the point. I’m glad you tried to watch them.

I’ll give some a proper try at some point to take in the full thing. Any more suggestions?

 

[tsumake]

Maybe Jim Jarmusch, David Lynch, Gaspar Noè fall in this category

David Lynch for sure.

 

[teezzy]

Comparing art films to Colecovision is one of the most absurd things I read.

Why? They're both antiquated

 

[tsumake]

I’ll give some a proper try at some point to take in the full thing. Any more suggestions?

Entracte by Rene Clair and Erik Satie



This was meant to be shown between parts of a ballet. A crazy and fun little film.

 

[tsumake]

Why? They're both antiquated

I think you mean your taste in cinema. No matter, Apex Legends calls you.

 

[teezzy]

You're the kind of guy who gets together with his friends to watch a comedy movie, and suggests something by Jacques Tati

 

[tsumake]

You're the kind of guy who gets together with his friends to watch a comedy movie, and suggests something by Jacques Tati

Why not Tati? Is that supposed to be an insult??

 

[synchronicity]

More art house but I love this film

One of my all-time favorites, for sure.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

And what about Gus Van Sant's "Gerry", with Matt Damon?
One of the strangest film ever.
What an experience

 

[teezzy]

 

[tsumake]

I’m hoping that this is an obvious comment: Experimental/Art Cinema is exactly that. By its very nature it’s meant to be in minority. Otherwise it would be mainstream. Personally I don’t advocate only watching this kind of cinema, nor do I think would the filmmakers. Even Tarkovsky wrote in his journal that he saw “Terminator.” I have seen people complain that movies are pretty bad or mediocre. There is a thread about old movies, which I think is a response to that. Experimental cinema doesn’t try to follow established forms - it experiments. Sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s terrible, and you’d find a similar ratio with mainstream cinema. These films are very specific, often focusing on a particular aspect of cinema.

My intent is to simply present these oddball films, to show what can be done with cinema. You don’t have to follow Griffith’s rules of moviemaking. Personally, I think we don’t have many experimenters out there and we’re becoming complacent in how a movie “should be made.” There is nothing wrong with convention, and there is nothing wrong with experimentation and novelty.

I hope you find something you like on this thread.

 

[tsumake]

Here is Pauline Kael’s favorite film : Menilmontant.



You can tell it was made by a Russian expat living in France. The opening scene is still brutal even today.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

Looks like the episode when Bart take the car with Milhouse and Nelson to go to the World Exposition in Las Vegas

 

[Zeroing]

More art house but I love this film

I used to, but I realized the only thing that saved that movie was the special effects and Rachel performance. And the director never done anything meaningful after requiem for a dream. The fountain is just visual if you compare both movies

 

[INC]

I used to, but I realized the only thing that saved that movie was the special effects and Rachel performance. And the director never done anything meaningful after requiem for a dream. The fountain is just visual if you compare both movies

I'd say the score plays a massive part, its fantastically scored. I just like its trippy, visually compelling and a story that spans multiple timelines

Thats more than enough for me, as for the director, never even knew who it was, or seen any of his other work, only a few clips from RfaD, or black Swan

This film just seen to click with what i look for in an art house film, sure there's better example, this one just comes together just right for my own personal taste

Subjective I guess, I can see how some can disagree, and they're not wrong

 

[Porcile]

How about some experimental animation?

Norman McLaren, Oskar Fischinger, Len Lye etc I love all that stuff.

 

[tsumake]

How about some experimental animation?

Norman McLaren, Oskar Fischinger, Len Lye etc I love all that stuff.

How about Jan Svankmajer?

 

[tsumake]

I used to, but I realized the only thing that saved that movie was the special effects and Rachel performance. And the director never done anything meaningful after requiem for a dream. The fountain is just visual if you compare both movies

I agree, though I like the microphotography vfx.

For those who don’t know, Aronofsky was actually making the film with Brads Pitt. He grew a ginormous beard for the role, and there’s a picture of him with the beard at a basketball game.

Pitt quit the film early in production to do “Troy.” He claimed the reason was his beard. He left the Australian crew high and dry. The crew called it being “pitted.”

 

[tsumake]

How about some experimental animation?

Norman McLaren, Oskar Fischinger, Len Lye etc I love all that stuff.

 

[tsumake]

Something further off the beaten path:

Stan Brakhage



You may see how it influenced Fincher’s “Seven.”

 

[12Goblins]

And what about Gus Van Sant's "Gerry", with Matt Damon?
One of the strangest film ever.
What an experience

Dang, totally forgot about that movie. Is it still worth watching?

I liked Gus's other movies like Elephant, paranoid park, etc but I remember critics saying Gerry was pretty lousy

 

[tsumake]

Dang, totally forgot about that movie. Is it still worth watching?

I liked Gus's other movies like Elephant, paranoid park, etc but I remember critics saying Gerry was pretty lousy

Eh, do you trust critics?

 

[strange headache]

You're the kind of guy who gets together with his friends to watch a comedy movie, and suggests something by Jacques Tati

Tati is not pretentious at all and very entertaining to watch. I love Playtime.

Un Chien Andalou

Chien Andalou is a classic. I also really liked A Pigeon Sat on a Branch Reflecting on Existence, great movie:

 

[strange headache]

I now remember that I wrote a lengthy review about Tati's playtime:

Jacques Tati's Playtime

Dear Gaffers, Today I'd like to draw your attention to one of one of my most cherished movies and the interesting story behind it. A movie that has been recognized as one of the greatest films ever made but to this day remains largely unknown. A movie that in itself is not only hilarious to...

www.neogaf.com

(sorry for double post)