-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Baghdad governor assassinated
- Thread starter MIMIC
- Start date
- Status
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Seriously, what the fuck is this administration thinking?
MrPing1000
Member
I skimmed read an article today about rummy and rice looking upon sept11th as an opportunity to get rid of some peeps. Rummy wanted to go after iraq straight away but was overruled by Powell
Cerebral Palsy
Banned
Iraq is lookin good!
SteveMeister
Hang out with Steve.
MIMIC said:
That is EXACTLY the insurgents' goal -- to prevent the elections from happening.
MrAngryFace
Banned
There's been stupid unexplained violence in that region for like, ever. Wtf are we trying for.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
SteveMeister said:
Looks like to me they are doing a pretty good job.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
goodcow said:
:lol
I can just see it now.MIMIC said:
Bush: "We must not deteriorate in our resolve and let these terroristes wane our effort to bring diplomatic freedoms of democracy to Iraq."
White House Reporter: "I'm sorry, El Presidente, but, what?"
Bush: "Tom Ridge! Throw this man into the stockade!"
*Ridge runs in, knocks the reporter out and drags him away*
Bush: "Freedoms, ladies, is our first priority."
If you want to have an indication of what Iraqi's think, here's a poll that was just released from Iraq with polls conducted from November 24th to December 5th.
http://www.iri.org/pdfs/NovemberSurveyPresentation.ppt
Within in the polls when some of the opinions are divided into different areas of the country. I wanted to make sure that people are clear that the South area is mostly Shia.
http://www.iri.org/pdfs/NovemberSurveyPresentation.ppt
Within in the polls when some of the opinions are divided into different areas of the country. I wanted to make sure that people are clear that the South area is mostly Shia.
ManDudeChild
Member
Firest0rm said:
Seems like cautious optimism.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
bob_arctor said:
That there are more Iraqis that would rather try the only system of government that works than there are Iraqis (and others) willing to blow themselves up in an effort to stop it.
What we should marvel at is not the effect of the insurgency, which obviously is having its desired impact. Instead we should be in awe that there are so many people who are willing to commit suicide so they can kill their fellow countrymen and Muslims to forestall the mere attempt at consensual government. Is there any better argument for how dysfunctional that part of the world is?
Artist: Immortal Technique f/ Mos Def
Album: Bin Laden 12"
Song: Bin Laden
Lyrics :
[Mos Def - talking]
Man, you hear this bullshit they be talkin'
Every day, man
It's like these motherfuckers is just like professional liars
YouknowwhatI'msayin? It's wild
Listen
[Hook - Mos Def]
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
[Verse 1 - Immortal Technique]
I pledge no allegiance, nigga fuck the president's speeches
I'm baptized by America and covered in leeches
The dirty water that bleaches your soul and your facial features
Drownin' you in propaganda that they spit through the speakers
And if you speak about the evil that the government does
The Patriot Act'll track you to the type of your blood
They try to frame you, and say you was tryna sell drugs
And throw a federal indictment on niggaz to show you love
This shit is run by fake Christians, fake politicians
Look at they mansions, then look at the conditions you live in
All they talk about is terrorism on television
They tell you to listen, but they don't really tell you they mission
They funded Al-Qaeda, and now they blame the Muslim religion
Even though Bin Laden, was a CIA tactician
They gave him billions of dollars, and they funded his purpose
Fahrenheit 9/11, that's just scratchin' the surface
[Hook - Mos Def]
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
[Verse 2 - Immortal Technique]
They say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam
But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong
Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight
It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights
I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream
I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem
I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south, my nigga
I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga
You ever clock someone who talk shit, or look at you wrong?
Imagine if they shot at you, and was rapin' your moms
And of course Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons
We sold him that shit, after Ronald Reagan's election
Mercenary contractors fightin' a new era
Corporate military bankin' off the war on terror
They controllin' the ghetto, with the failed attack
Tryna distract the fact that they engineerin' the crack
So I'm strapped like Lee Malvo holdin' a sniper rifle
These bullets'll touch your kids, and I don't mean like Michael
Your body be sent to the morgue, stripped down and recycled
I fire on house niggaz that support you and like you
Cuz innocent people get murdered in the struggle daily
And poor people never get shit and struggle daily
This ain't no alien conspiracy theory, this shit is real
Written on the dollar underneath the Masonic seal
(I don't rap for dead presidents
I'd rather see the president dead
It's never been said but I set precedents)--[Eminem]
[Hook - Mos Def]
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
(Shady Records was 80 seconds away from the towers
Some cowards fucked with the wrong building, they meant to hit ours)-- [Eminem]
That second verse made me think....
Album: Bin Laden 12"
Song: Bin Laden
Lyrics :
[Mos Def - talking]
Man, you hear this bullshit they be talkin'
Every day, man
It's like these motherfuckers is just like professional liars
YouknowwhatI'msayin? It's wild
Listen
[Hook - Mos Def]
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
[Verse 1 - Immortal Technique]
I pledge no allegiance, nigga fuck the president's speeches
I'm baptized by America and covered in leeches
The dirty water that bleaches your soul and your facial features
Drownin' you in propaganda that they spit through the speakers
And if you speak about the evil that the government does
The Patriot Act'll track you to the type of your blood
They try to frame you, and say you was tryna sell drugs
And throw a federal indictment on niggaz to show you love
This shit is run by fake Christians, fake politicians
Look at they mansions, then look at the conditions you live in
All they talk about is terrorism on television
They tell you to listen, but they don't really tell you they mission
They funded Al-Qaeda, and now they blame the Muslim religion
Even though Bin Laden, was a CIA tactician
They gave him billions of dollars, and they funded his purpose
Fahrenheit 9/11, that's just scratchin' the surface
[Hook - Mos Def]
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
[Verse 2 - Immortal Technique]
They say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam
But that's bullshit, I'll show you why it's totally wrong
Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight
It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights
I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream
I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem
I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south, my nigga
I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga
You ever clock someone who talk shit, or look at you wrong?
Imagine if they shot at you, and was rapin' your moms
And of course Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons
We sold him that shit, after Ronald Reagan's election
Mercenary contractors fightin' a new era
Corporate military bankin' off the war on terror
They controllin' the ghetto, with the failed attack
Tryna distract the fact that they engineerin' the crack
So I'm strapped like Lee Malvo holdin' a sniper rifle
These bullets'll touch your kids, and I don't mean like Michael
Your body be sent to the morgue, stripped down and recycled
I fire on house niggaz that support you and like you
Cuz innocent people get murdered in the struggle daily
And poor people never get shit and struggle daily
This ain't no alien conspiracy theory, this shit is real
Written on the dollar underneath the Masonic seal
(I don't rap for dead presidents
I'd rather see the president dead
It's never been said but I set precedents)--[Eminem]
[Hook - Mos Def]
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects
It was you, nigga
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
Tell the truth, nigga
(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]
(Shady Records was 80 seconds away from the towers
Some cowards fucked with the wrong building, they meant to hit ours)-- [Eminem]
That second verse made me think....
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
xsarien said:
ok. so why else would they assassinate the governor?
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
So what are they trying to do xsarien? Do the religious fanatics eager to commit suicide to kill others want a smooth election with 90% turnout that could lead to a moderate, secular government that puts Iraq on the path to modernization and progress?
That statement they released the other day would lead me to believe othewise. I guess you know better, though. I'm eager to hear your reasoning on this.
That statement they released the other day would lead me to believe othewise. I guess you know better, though. I'm eager to hear your reasoning on this.
Truer words were never spoken.
Guileless said:
Considering that they've been blowing themselves, and others, up nearly as soon as we set foot in Iraq (nearly), I think their issues are a bit deeper than "Oh, my God, they're trying to have...ELECTIONS!" Try "They would've liked us to leave as soon as Saddam was toppled, but we didn't, now a lot of people are pissed."
Don't believe the GOP spin machine. Not every "insurgent" is a Saddam loyalist. We're perceived - especially in that part of the world - as conquerers, a nation of people who come in and claim everything as our own, and they're scared. Combine that with lax security letting Al-Qaeda sympathizers in, and you have the current situation.
It's not about Iraqi elections, it was never about Iraqi elections, and these bombings won't stop after they take place. Get it through your head that the people we call terrorists don't "hate freedom," as Bush and his staff like to constantly remind us. They hate what they see as policy with double-standards.
"Baghdad governor assassinated "
OH GOD I NEVER SAW THIS COMING.
I find this entire situation more amusing every day. The US attacked Iraq because they wanted a presence in the region so as intemidate the surrounding countries into doing as it says. Iraq was the choice country because of it's central location in the area. On the other hand though it'a also a choice country for the terrorist/insurgents/freedom fighters, because guess what, it's smack dab in the middle of their backyard, :lol . How fucking genius is that? The US will never be able to stop these kinds of attacks because there are too many roads and back alley ways into Iraq. Hell the US can't stop illegal immigration on one stretch of it's border, now they have a country surrounded by nothing but hostile people eager to get into Iraq and blow themselves and a few other people up. Anyhow I read a report stating how Bush was supposedly thinking about launching strikes into Syria as the US believes that the planning of a lot of the attacks are done there. What about the Shia planing in Iran or Al Queada planning in Saudi Arabia? They would have to attack the entire middle east to stop these attacks and in doing so would cause a shitload more peopla in the area to want to strap on a bomb and get thems some of those 40 virgin Alah is handing out. Yeap this is a mighty big fuck up, bigger than I initally thought.
OH GOD I NEVER SAW THIS COMING.
I find this entire situation more amusing every day. The US attacked Iraq because they wanted a presence in the region so as intemidate the surrounding countries into doing as it says. Iraq was the choice country because of it's central location in the area. On the other hand though it'a also a choice country for the terrorist/insurgents/freedom fighters, because guess what, it's smack dab in the middle of their backyard, :lol . How fucking genius is that? The US will never be able to stop these kinds of attacks because there are too many roads and back alley ways into Iraq. Hell the US can't stop illegal immigration on one stretch of it's border, now they have a country surrounded by nothing but hostile people eager to get into Iraq and blow themselves and a few other people up. Anyhow I read a report stating how Bush was supposedly thinking about launching strikes into Syria as the US believes that the planning of a lot of the attacks are done there. What about the Shia planing in Iran or Al Queada planning in Saudi Arabia? They would have to attack the entire middle east to stop these attacks and in doing so would cause a shitload more peopla in the area to want to strap on a bomb and get thems some of those 40 virgin Alah is handing out. Yeap this is a mighty big fuck up, bigger than I initally thought.
dlobro1080
Member
Someone give the Bush administration a glass of milk, cause this whole Iraq thing has been a pieace of cake!
Oh wait, what did I say? I actually meant the opposite of that.
Oh wait, what did I say? I actually meant the opposite of that.
You're misrepresenting the argument. Whether insurgents want or don't want elections is not the same issue as the insurgents motivations for carrying out the attacks.
As has been said afore in this thread, the attacks would be happening whether elections were a few weeks away or not.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
From the AP:
"The militant group Jaish Ansar al-Sunna claimed responsibility for the attack, citing Iraq's January 30 elections.
In an unverified claim posted on its Web site, the group said it launched the attack "as the infidels were preparing to have a meeting to discuss the elections." The group said it killed guards who were protecting the building.
In another statement on its Web site Thursday, Ansar al-Sunnah and two other militant groups denounced democracy as un-Islamic. The statement said that democracy could lead to passing un-Islamic laws, such as permitting homosexual marriage, if the majority agrees to it.
"Democracy is a Greek word meaning the rule of the people, which means that the people do what they see fit," the statement said. "This concept is considered apostasy and defies the belief in one God - Muslims' doctrine."
_________________________________
Did the GOP spin machine infiltrate Ansar al-Sunnah in order to release this statement? I bet some guy named Tripp from Thousand Oaks, California went to Fallujah, grew a Taliban beard, and started shouting at women not wearing veils and denouncing Jews until they hired him to do their PR.
"The militant group Jaish Ansar al-Sunna claimed responsibility for the attack, citing Iraq's January 30 elections.
In an unverified claim posted on its Web site, the group said it launched the attack "as the infidels were preparing to have a meeting to discuss the elections." The group said it killed guards who were protecting the building.
In another statement on its Web site Thursday, Ansar al-Sunnah and two other militant groups denounced democracy as un-Islamic. The statement said that democracy could lead to passing un-Islamic laws, such as permitting homosexual marriage, if the majority agrees to it.
"Democracy is a Greek word meaning the rule of the people, which means that the people do what they see fit," the statement said. "This concept is considered apostasy and defies the belief in one God - Muslims' doctrine."
_________________________________
Did the GOP spin machine infiltrate Ansar al-Sunnah in order to release this statement? I bet some guy named Tripp from Thousand Oaks, California went to Fallujah, grew a Taliban beard, and started shouting at women not wearing veils and denouncing Jews until they hired him to do their PR.
You could train a monkey to type leftist ideology in broken English, and keep typing it despite what anyone is saying in a thread, give him Che's username, and nobody would know the difference.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
xsarien said:
well then. why oh why would they kill their own governor.. why oh why would they help impede the process of becoming a self sustaining country once again. why oh why do they continue to kill their own people instead of JUST targeting US soldiers ??
obviously its not just about the elections.. its about becoming a democratic state. and an ally of the US.
Talking points don't matter Guileless since there is an actual test of intent available.
If there were no elections would there be no attacks on coaltion/interim government?
Quad, the man in charge wasn't seen as 'our own governer' he was seen as a puppet stooge of the coalition. You have to understand the interim government doesn't get any respect and has no legitimacy.
Also democratic state does not automatically equal ally of US. Unless of course the U.S influences the democracy to the point of certainty in some way...
If there were no elections would there be no attacks on coaltion/interim government?
Quad, the man in charge wasn't seen as 'our own governer' he was seen as a puppet stooge of the coalition. You have to understand the interim government doesn't get any respect and has no legitimacy.
Also democratic state does not automatically equal ally of US. Unless of course the U.S influences the democracy to the point of certainty in some way...
DarienA said:
I might have been stupid in every single post today, I don't know, but I'm right in this thread. I can't accept fake polls and people claiming that these are evil terrorists who hate their country, just because they're fighting against all odds a foreign invading army and their sidekicks. Btw are you still pissed at me about that EA thread, cos I have a strange feeling about it.
Oh and Firestorm please don't kid yourself. Fake poll's ridiculous numbers: The country is headed the wrong direction because : Poor Security situation: 52% Presence of occupation forces: 18%. The goverment is somewhat effective: 42%. There are many other ridiculous lies in this "poll" but I'm getting bored writing them down.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Everybody always frames trying to understand motivations in our Western context.
Personally, I'm tired of hearing stuff like the Iraqi insurgency described as "the enemies of FREEDOM! They FEAR our freedom and HATE us for it!"
What if they don't hate us for our freedom, don't hate us for a nice, logical reason we can rationalize away, but just hate -us-? The West has been traditionally characterized as the great devil, something horrible to loath JUST BECAUSE IT EXISTS. Everything the West does is just icing on the cake - more fodder to present as proof that we are the devil.
Americans should be familiar with blind and irrational hatred and prejudice. We practice it every day against ourselves for no truly logical or rational reason. We hate hate hate on those who violate our petty foibles, trigger our insecurities or whom our peers and social groups have told us we should despise. When we're busy hating, we don't think about anything "high minded" like ideals. (Or at least, we slap a coat of flimsy ideals on our hate after the fact, for circular justification.) We just go "ARRRGH. HATE. DIE. GET YOUR EXISTENCE AWAY FROM ME. GET OFF MY PLANET." Still plenty of racism here, hate for the sake of it, still plenty of bigotry of everything from sexual choice right down the line to what -music- you listen to or what subculture fandoms you participate in.
It's like when we're confronted with the mindless hate from outside, it's a cold shock and we cannot accept it. We won't believe it. It's "insane". How could they...?
Has it occured to anyone that if there is any such thing as karma, little situations like Iraq might be a bitchslap given to the almighty West?
They hate the West. They want it out of their land. As long as their hate continues it will always be an invader and so will anything the West does there - it doesn't matter if it's intended to be good or bad. The devil dogs must be driven out, along with anyone who has been corrupted by their touch. The institutions the dogs create must be torn down, for no reason other than they are poisoned by the hated ones.
Personally, I'm tired of hearing stuff like the Iraqi insurgency described as "the enemies of FREEDOM! They FEAR our freedom and HATE us for it!"
What if they don't hate us for our freedom, don't hate us for a nice, logical reason we can rationalize away, but just hate -us-? The West has been traditionally characterized as the great devil, something horrible to loath JUST BECAUSE IT EXISTS. Everything the West does is just icing on the cake - more fodder to present as proof that we are the devil.
Americans should be familiar with blind and irrational hatred and prejudice. We practice it every day against ourselves for no truly logical or rational reason. We hate hate hate on those who violate our petty foibles, trigger our insecurities or whom our peers and social groups have told us we should despise. When we're busy hating, we don't think about anything "high minded" like ideals. (Or at least, we slap a coat of flimsy ideals on our hate after the fact, for circular justification.) We just go "ARRRGH. HATE. DIE. GET YOUR EXISTENCE AWAY FROM ME. GET OFF MY PLANET." Still plenty of racism here, hate for the sake of it, still plenty of bigotry of everything from sexual choice right down the line to what -music- you listen to or what subculture fandoms you participate in.
It's like when we're confronted with the mindless hate from outside, it's a cold shock and we cannot accept it. We won't believe it. It's "insane". How could they...?
Has it occured to anyone that if there is any such thing as karma, little situations like Iraq might be a bitchslap given to the almighty West?
They hate the West. They want it out of their land. As long as their hate continues it will always be an invader and so will anything the West does there - it doesn't matter if it's intended to be good or bad. The devil dogs must be driven out, along with anyone who has been corrupted by their touch. The institutions the dogs create must be torn down, for no reason other than they are poisoned by the hated ones.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Azih said:
There would be attacks regardless of when the elections were scheduled. But the attacks are now focused on stopping the elections, which the insurgents clearly do not want to happen.
I don't understand your point. What difference does the answer to your question make?
Firest0rm said:
Well, I'm not arguing for it, I'm simply putting forward a point of view. But I wouldn't exactly define Iraq now as under any type of "control."
quadriplegicjon said:
I don't know, maybe it has something to do with them either being put in place by the US directly, or obvious (more than usual) puppets of the US government. This is all about us, our presence, and what they view as a direct plan to build Iraq in our own image. The world, thankfully, isn't as black and white as some would like it to be.
Firest0rm said:
Pathetic things I like to post in here? Hehe strong words from a person who tries to represent the Iraqi people, and claims that the US invasion and the murder of thousands of his people was a good thing.
In case you don't like what I have to say there's always the ignore list. Use it.
Problem is Che that it's completely obvious that the reason you think the polls are fake is because they dont' conform to your world view. You're got your mind made up and nothing is going to change it. Any evidence that contradicts your made up mind is going to be dismissed as 'fake' with NO justification and that Che, is stupid.
Guileless the reason the answer makes a difference is that it indicates that the primary objective of the insurgents is attacking the coalition/interim government and those who ally themselves with it. Which is different from trying to stop the elections. There's important differences between the two motivations.
Guileless the reason the answer makes a difference is that it indicates that the primary objective of the insurgents is attacking the coalition/interim government and those who ally themselves with it. Which is different from trying to stop the elections. There's important differences between the two motivations.
We all know Bush can't just come forward and tell the american people that he has failed to create a democracy in Iraq although I wish he would so we could see all these right wing journalists get owned, like Hannity and O Reilly.
The sunnis and Al Qaeda want to create an Islamic Republic. This is worse than the Lebenon War in the 70s.
The sunnis and Al Qaeda want to create an Islamic Republic. This is worse than the Lebenon War in the 70s.
Maybe this is a dumb question, i dunno but what are people expecting to happen come january 30th? That every problem in iraq is going to suddenly dissapear just because they had a democratic election?
this is something i thought about before. If some country invaded us would you fight to fend them off even if they say they have good intentions?
this is something i thought about before. If some country invaded us would you fight to fend them off even if they say they have good intentions?
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
Azih said:
What's the difference in motivation? Are you saying that they are motivated to attack the government for one reason, and motivated to stop the elections for another, unrelated reason? I don't understand.
Edit:
If George Bush is still in power 40 years from now and has crafted an Orwellian police state to perpetuate his power, filled mass graves with his political opponents, and started ruinous wars with Canada and Mexico, I will not fight any invading power that removes him and says it will hold elections. I will gladly take the chance on elections.
- Status