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[Deserted Maniac Island]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38358177

Several buses en route to evacuate the sick and injured from two government-held villages in Syria's Idlib province have been burned by rebels.

Despite delays caused by disagreements over the new evacuation plan, buses were due to evacuate people from both eastern Aleppo and the government-held villages in Idlib province on Sunday, according to reports.

However, UK-based monitoring group the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said six buses were attacked and torched on the way to Foah and Kefraya.

Syrian state media said "armed terrorists" attacked five buses, burned and destroyed them.

Several reports from opposition sources said that militants from Jabhat Fath al-Sham, formerly al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front, were responsible for setting the buses on fire. But Hezbollah's al-Manar TV and Beirut-based pro-Syrian government al-Mayadin TV said clashes between jihadist and Islamist rebel groups had resulted in the blaze.

Rebel groups have not yet commented on the attack.

Some 1,200 people were due to be taken out of the former rebel enclave in return for a similar number moved out of the two government-held villages, Foah and Kefraya.

Pro-government forces had reportedly demanded that a group of people needing medical treatment also be allowed to leave the two areas.

Reports said a new agreement was reached in the early hours of Sunday but delays meant thousands of civilians remained stranded.

EDIT: Jabhat Fatah al-Sham, formerly al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front (Sunni Group), are the ones who are attacking the buses which carry mostly Shia civilians.

Innocent civilians are caught in between awful people all around it seems...

 

[Kathian]

I feel the one thing missing this is 'Sunni Rebels burn Shia Syria evacuation buses'; the sectarian side to this conflict far too often gets overlooked for a more rose tinted outlook.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Innocent civilians are caught in between awful people all around it seems...

I believe that many of these people caught in the crossfire just want the Syrian state to take the city back and for it to be all over. It's also worth noting that the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is just a Sunni Muslim man who lives in Coventry and runs a clothing business but the media use him as their only source on events in the the region. It's sort of surreal but for his contact network of rebels to flag this up as a problem it hints that it must be serious enough to bother the rebels themselves.

 

[Real Hero]

a moderate action I'm sure

 

[RustyNails]

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

This is basically a 3 way war. Lumping all the opposition to Assad as "rebels" does the actual resistance fighters fighting both Assad and ISIS groups a great disservice.

 

[Shadynasty]

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

This is basically a 3 way war. Lumping all the opposition to Assad as "rebels" does the actual resistance fighters fighting both Assad and ISIS groups a great disservice.

Judging by that alliances flow chart can you blame people for getting confused? When people would say the situation in Syria is complicated, I assumed it was just telling the difference between ISIS and rebels. This is next level confusion. No flags, no uniforms, no rules, and no regard for civilians. Who the hell are the good guys?

 

[Blastoise]

World is fucked up.

 

[KingSnake]

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

This is basically a 3 way war. Lumping all the opposition to Assad as "rebels" does the actual resistance fighters fighting both Assad and ISIS groups a great disservice.

So which rebels attacked now the buses? Wasn't supposed that the rather moderate ones were in Aleppo?

 

[| Praxis |]

Judging by that alliances flow chart can you blame people for getting confused? When people would say the situation in Syria is complicated, I assumed it was just telling the difference between ISIS and rebels. This is next level confusion. No flags, no uniforms, no rules, and no regard for civilians. Who the hell are the good guys?

There are none.

There are groups that happily film their atrocities and upload them to the internet and those that don't.

 

[hobblygobbly]

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

This is basically a 3 way war. Lumping all the opposition to Assad as "rebels" does the actual resistance fighters fighting both Assad and ISIS groups a great disservice.

The people fighting Assad and ISIS are in the minority now, it's become so fractured that there is no unified force against Assad that existed in 2011/2012, that's completely gone. FSA is a shell of what it was, majority of rebels are all fighting each other and Assad for their own ideology, which is why no unification exists. Even if Assad had to be defeated the sectarian conflict conflict will still grapple the country. It's the whole reason that now eventually the U.S stopped arming them, because they were just going to extremist groups with the arms with the constant defecting.

Arming opposition and the international community in 2011/2012 putting aside diplomatic avenues and instead saying "Assad must go" is what has resulted in Syria today. The UN envoy to Syria earlier this year heavily criticised the international community about this.

 

[Deserted Maniac Island]

So which rebels attacked now the buses? Wasn't supposed that the rather moderate ones were in Aleppo?

It was Jabhat Fath al-Sham, which was Al Nusra (Al Qaeda), that apparently attacked the buses.

 

[Azoor]

I feel the one thing missing this is 'Sunni Rebels burn Shia Syria evacuation buses'; the sectarian side to this conflict far too often gets overlooked for a more rose tinted outlook.

I've seen Sunni and Shia Muslims on both sides of the conflict (if we didn't include extremists like ISIS and Nusra) the conflicted is more political than ideological.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I feel the one thing missing this is 'Sunni Rebels burn Shia Syria evacuation buses'; the sectarian side to this conflict far too often gets overlooked for a more rose tinted outlook.

I do sometimes wonder what's the percentage of people who know islam has multiple denominations.

 

[RustyNails]

So which rebels attacked now the buses? Wasn't supposed that the rather moderate ones were in Aleppo?

No. The Jabhat Fateh Al Sham (ex- Nusra Front) terrorists did. They are engaged in a war with Assad, US-backed SDF, YPG, FSA, and also a turf war with ISIS who are their ideological brethren.

The US backed groups (FSA, SDF and Kurdish aligned YPG) are fighting Assad, ISIS Hezbollah, Al Sham and other Islamists.

 

[Real Hero]

Who the hell are the good guys?

Like in most situations, whichever side your on

 

[TheMan]

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

This is basically a 3 way war. Lumping all the opposition to Assad as "rebels" does the actual resistance fighters fighting both Assad and ISIS groups a great disservice.

This chart is insane. I haven't followed super closely, but I've had trouble keeping track of who's who. I guess I see why now.

 

[samn]

Judging by that alliances flow chart can you blame people for getting confused? When people would say the situation in Syria is complicated, I assumed it was just telling the difference between ISIS and rebels. This is next level confusion. No flags, no uniforms, no rules, and no regard for civilians. Who the hell are the good guys?

It doesn't help that the newspapers reporting on the conflict typically have next to no journalists on the ground. It's hard to say with certainty what exactly is going on. The potential for misunderstanding and misinformation seems huge.

 

[RustyNails]

Like in most situations, whichever side your on

This is just lazy commentary and needlessly confuses the situation more.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

This is basically a 3 way war.

Chart is misleading IMO. If everyone was as united against Islamic State as that image suggested then they would have been eliminated years ago.

Naturally there are lots of factions and so on. Like a basic problem with conspiracy theories is that they imagine a single grand conspiracy instead of a more realistic picture where there are hundreds of conspiracies going on at once.

 

[RustyNails]

Chart is misleading IMO. If everyone was as united against Islamic State as that image suggested then they would have been eliminated years ago.

Naturally there are lots of factions and so on. Like a basic problem with conspiracy theories is that they imagine a single grand conspiracy instead of a more realistic picture where there are hundreds of conspiracies going on at once.

The chart says which groups are aligned which way, not necessary the groups fighting each other. For example, it is documented that Assad has let ISIS convoys pass and indirectly assisted them despite being completely aligned against them. This is because they serve purpose to Assad. He can point to them and say he's fighting them when in reality he's barrel bombing civilians and FSA. Besides, they divert attention from other groups fighting him.

 

[Real Hero]

This is just lazy commentary and needlessly confuses the situation more.

so is needing 'good guys'

 

[Azoor]

Like in most situations, whichever side your on

That's am oversimplification and I hate it.

The good guys are the innocent ones who have been killed by the Assad regime and other extremist groups. The ones that had tried peaceful protests because they wanted basic human rights before it exploded into a bloody war.

 

[RustyNails]

so is needing 'good guys'

More needless commentary. This is not a video game with heroes and villains. Everything has a shade of grey, some darker than others. Some intentionally hurt civilians and some don't.

Right now, SDF is engaged in a huge operation to dislodge ISIS from Raqqa, the capital of ISIS Caliphate while Assad has went scorched earth on East Aleppo.

 

[ultratruman]

Important to note that this is in Idlib, as stated in the BBC headline.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Assad & Russia did great work making moderate go full islamic mode.

There are no good guys anymore.

Butcher Assad will keep power and Russia will be victorious. Dead civilians won't be there to talk about the atrocities, just like in Chechnya.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I bet for many people this will be the first time they learn of the siege of this towns beccause moderate rebels are the ones doing the siege so the civilians there arent as marketable for the mainstream media.

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

The few moderate rebels need to separate themselves from jihadist like Al Nusra, Ahrar al-Sham, Din al-Zenki, Sham Brigade , etc. sadly said jihadist are the majority among the fighters .

EDIT:

Videos of the buses burning

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/810503495837061120/pu/vid/178x320/qD1iCF_trekHvw2r.mp4

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/810472133763723264/pu/vid/178x320/tLJahP8e8t6EY_kN.mp4

 

[AcademicSaucer]

EDIT: double post

 

[Shadynasty]

Like in most situations, whichever side your on

Cynicism aside there has to be at least one of those groups who go out of their way to protect civilians. If not their should have been a humanitarian mission to save civilians when this started instead of arming any of these people.

 

[KingSnake]

I bet for many people this will be the first time they learn of the siege of this towns beccause moderate rebels are the ones doing the siege so the civilians there arent as marketable for the mainstream media.

This is true for me, this is the first time I find out that some cities are under siege by rebels. And that there is an agreement about a swap of "prisoners" practically when it comes to evacuation. Which really makes all the sides involved in this swap not being the "good guys".

Are really the moderate rebels the ones doing the siege there?

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Cynicism aside there has to be at least one of those groups who go out of their way to protect civilians. If not their should have been a humanitarian mission to save civilians when this started instead of arming any of these people.

I will just give you an example :

The syrian kurds helped the yazidis that were about to be genocided in Iraq but then ethnically cleansed of arabs many of the areas they took from ISIS.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Assad & Russia did great work making moderate go full islamic mode.

There are no good guys anymore.

Butcher Assad will keep power and Russia will be victorious. Dead civilians won't be there to talk about the atrocities, just like in Chechnya.

And if something happens to Assad, say goodbye to the whole region

 

[Shadynasty]

I will just give you an example :

The syrian kurds helped the yazidis that were about to be genocided in Iraq but then ethnically cleansed of arabs many of the areas they took from ISIS.

What type of mind set do you have to have to prevent genocide and then turn around and perpetrate it? There must be a complete disconnect recognizing different race and ethnicities as human being the same as them. Or maybe they do know and just don't care and view it as vengeance for some perceived past crimes against their people?

 

[YourMaster]

This chart is insane. I haven't followed super closely, but I've had trouble keeping track of who's who. I guess I see why now.

And this is a gross oversimplification. For example Turkey is just listed here as attacking ISIS, but they have unofficially also been supporting them. And Russia have also attacked the democratic forces, and so on.

 

[Seth Enosh]

The chart says which groups are aligned which way, not necessary the groups fighting each other. For example, it is documented that Assad has let ISIS convoys pass and indirectly assisted them despite being completely aligned against them. This is because they serve purpose to Assad. He can point to them and say he's fighting them when in reality he's barrel bombing civilians and FSA. Besides, they divert attention from other groups fighting him.

Assad and ISIS are actively fighting for years though.

I don't think ISIS is his top priority (as you say) but it's accurate to say they are fighting. ISIS has Assad's airbase in Deir-ez-Zor under active siege for years, for instance, and has launched multiple offensives trying to destroy it. The same is true for Kuweires airbase which ISIS had under siege for 2 years and suffered immense casualties until the Syrian army finally relieved it.

There are some other aspects of that chart which seem questionable to me too, or to leave aspects out. SDF may be officially aligned against the regime but they don't seem to be actively fighting. Supposedly there are even some checkpoints in Aleppo that are manned by joint SDF and NDF (regime) detachments right now.

The situation in Syria is a total mess and even though that chart looks complicated, it's probably not complicated enough to really explain it.

 

[CalamityPixel]

I think people need to seperate rebels from Jihadist ideological groups like Nusra.

This is basically a 3 way war. Lumping all the opposition to Assad as "rebels" does the actual resistance fighters fighting both Assad and ISIS groups a great disservice.

I haven't been able to keep track with what's going on much, with that chart it's no wonder. What a disgusting shitshow.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

This cartoon also sums it up pointedly