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Bernie Stolar
- Thread starter CO_Andy
- Start date
AtomicShroom
Member
If I do remember correctly, it was because he took decisions that went against the wishes of Sega Japan.
Really a shame though. I can't help but admire a man who asks fans to e-mail him personally to let him feel what are the biggest problems they have with the preview version of a game (Sonic Adventure at the time).
Really a shame though. I can't help but admire a man who asks fans to e-mail him personally to let him feel what are the biggest problems they have with the preview version of a game (Sonic Adventure at the time).
AtomicShroom
Member
rareside said:
Yeah he went at Mattel Interactive. Wonder if he's still there...
FortNinety
Member
Some hate him for pulling the plug early on the Saturn, but he did do the Dreamcast right (more or less).
There's lots of rumors as to why he quit, and my ex-Sega rep friend told me this one after speaking to Stolar at E3 after a few drinks. Evidentally, Stolar was talking to one of the higher ups at Sega of Japan about the Dreamcast launch date. The Japanese guy said that the "9-9-99" date was silly, and that Americans were basically too stupid to remember the date. Stolar responded with "Well, how about August 6, 1945 [US drops atom bomb on Hiroshima]?".
Whether it's true or not, it's pretty funny.
Whether it's true or not, it's pretty funny.
FitzOfRage
Member
I don't think Sega Japan ever really trusted he could get the job done. They were always hanging over him micromanaging decions.
According to a Wall Street Journal piece at the time, one of the issues they clashed over was the royalty structure for the Dreamcast. Sega of Japan decided to charge US publishers more than Japanese publishers, which of course didn't sit well with a lot of companies (most notably EA). They also wanted to sell the Dreamcast exclusively online (while still offering games in stores).
And reportedly the last big blow out they had was over the timing of the Dreamcast launch. Sega of Japan wanted to push the US launch into 2000, and Stolar refused to miss Christmas, so he ended up getting the boot a couple weeks before launch.
According to a Wall Street Journal piece at the time, one of the issues they clashed over was the royalty structure for the Dreamcast. Sega of Japan decided to charge US publishers more than Japanese publishers, which of course didn't sit well with a lot of companies (most notably EA). They also wanted to sell the Dreamcast exclusively online (while still offering games in stores).
And reportedly the last big blow out they had was over the timing of the Dreamcast launch. Sega of Japan wanted to push the US launch into 2000, and Stolar refused to miss Christmas, so he ended up getting the boot a couple weeks before launch.
FortNinety
Member
FitzOfRage said:
I think a LOT of Sega's problems can be attributed to Sega of Japan and it's total lack on confidence in the American division, despite the fact that SOA actually got the best of Nintendo, and SOJ had never even gotten close.
SOJ muddled in everything. They were the reason Kalinske left. He completely lost faith in the people in Japan and moved on. The Japanese folks probably had a lot of disdain for Sega of America because Genesis was so successful here while it failed in Japan. Saturn was borne out of their desire to please the Japanese market and there was no consideration for what was happening here in the States. Genesis could have sold very well through the year that Playstation launched. There was no hurry. SNES games sold superbly that year.
You can thank Sega of Japan for just about everything that ruined Sega. The only thing you can really blame on Stolar is the Saturn debacle. He stupidly said they were quitting on it at E3 in '97 I believe it was and that was that. Once he said "Dreamcast is our future" everyone raced to get out of Saturn development despite a customer base that was at least supportable and potentially profitable at the time.
This thread pisses me off.
You can thank Sega of Japan for just about everything that ruined Sega. The only thing you can really blame on Stolar is the Saturn debacle. He stupidly said they were quitting on it at E3 in '97 I believe it was and that was that. Once he said "Dreamcast is our future" everyone raced to get out of Saturn development despite a customer base that was at least supportable and potentially profitable at the time.
This thread pisses me off.
He was the reason DC came with a modem in the US. SoJ didn't want it. SoJ failed to understand the American market. They wanted SoA to handle the DC differently, Stolar didn't want that, so they kicked him out. And it was only a few weeks before the launch if I remember right. Really low class.
aoi tsuki said:
:lol Yep, same story I heard...one of the best responses of all time. Funny this thread came up, as I was talking to someone about this a couple days ago and re-read the notepad file I'd saved of this classic urban legend.
FortNinety said:
Exactly. SOJ never really gave SOA a chance to succeed...I'm convinced the 32X and early Saturn release was their idea (the pitiful state of Daytona was the single biggest mistake Sega ever made in my mind), and then they tried to push DC out over here without the modem, which made no sense at all. And then they mothball the DC simply because it had done nothing in Japan, while it could've certainly done half decently over here with a bit of extra money thrown SOA's way. SOJ's only hardware success was the Saturn, and that's only because people bought it to play VF. Otherwise they've never had a fucking clue.
Anyone still think Peter Moore doesn't know what he's doing with the success XBox has had over the last year or so? Can't have it both ways. The one constant through all of Sega's turmoil has been SOJ's heriachy. SOA got far too much flack for their troubles here.
BTW, I don't buy the idea that Stolar killed the Saturn. It was dead already...third parties were moving on regardless, stores were moving the Saturn into the small shelf spaces with the Mac games, and N64 and PSX were sitting pretty. When your console that had a large selection of games is sold with three highly rated games for the same price as the competitors and you still finish third, you know it's over. All Stolar did was make a pronouncement in a Gamespot interview (it isn't like he made a press release) about what everyone already knew...Saturn was on the way out, and Dural/Black Belt/Katana/Dreamcast was on the way in. The only thing I'm critical of SOA for during that time was releasing Panzer Saga in ultra limited quantities (luckily I was able to get the game). Otherwise there wasn't much they could do.
Kobun Heat
Member
Bernie Stolar was fired because Sega of America's executive structure has been a never-ending game of musical chairs for as long as I've been paying attention. Da dum da dum da dadadadum, dadumdadumdaDAAA-- *scramble* aaaaand you're fired.
*hkkk* Paging Victor Ireland to thread #33307.
*hkkk* Paging Victor Ireland to thread #33307.
Jumpman Jr.
Member
There were a lot of rumors about that. I remember one rumor that said in an interview, Bernie and he said the American launch would be more successful than the Japanese one, since – to the extent – that Americans knew what they’re doing, after all, the company was founded by Americans. Then he was fired.
MassiveAttack
Banned
He's been fired from pretty much every job he's ever had.
Including his last one with Cavia.
Including his last one with Cavia.
If not for Bernie, Americans would've gotten to play Gunner's Heaven, Motor Toon GP1, Lunar SSS Saturn, X-Men Vs SF Saturn, Grandia Saturn, Deep Fear and probably a ton of other games. His "percetion" standards still haunt SCEA to this day and while Saturn was never going to make a comeback, it could've been put down a lot better (not having Sega product on shelves for over a year was a rather dumb move too). He deserves whatever's happened to him.
Crowza
Member
Kobun Heat said:
I always assumed Victor Ireland's Sega hating stance at the end of the Saturn's life was due to two things. First, being his long standing grudge with Bernie Stolar. Second, blowing up the issue (booth space) to make an easy way out for Vic to jump on the Sony bandwagon in the eyes of fanboys.
Just my theory though.
I sorta suspected this too somewhat, but it doesn't really jive with WD's history. They actually seemed to enjoy focusing on niche platforms and Saturn was actually a step up from TG16/TGCD/Sega CD in that regard. If not for Bernie, I really think we would've seen Lunar, Silhouette Mirage, TunderForce and others on Saturn.Crowza said:
It's also worth noting Bernie drove away other American Saturn publishers late in Saturn's life, namely Capcom (who were actively trying to get the 4MB RAM cart released for their games).
Buffy4ever
Banned
Crowza said:
Yes I too felt thaat is why Victor Ireland made a big deal about Bernie saying the Saturn was not the future. He probaly wanted to go to Sony but needed an excuse for his fans that bought the saturn for his games. If he had dumped it without an excuse many people would have been upset.
Buffy4ever
Banned
Shinobi said:
I agree 100%. The Saturn was dead even before Bernie Stollar made the announcement. Alot of 3rd parties were jumping ship. Yhe only publisher that wanted to support the saturn in a half ass manner was EA. EA didn't even publish all the sport titles on the saturn that they published on the PS1.
jarrod said:
I don't think we would have gotten all those games in the US, even if Benie Stollar had kept quiet. I never heard that Grandia was coming here. If Vicotor Ireland wanted to he could have brought over Lunar SSS like he did that butchered up Rayearth with all the bugs in it. I still Victor Ireland would have jumped ship form the saturn even without the annoucnment. I think one of the reason X-men VS Street fighter didn't come out was that Capcom wanted Sega to put up half the investment to bring it out here with the 4 meg ram cart. Sega didn't want to, so Capcom just forgot about it becuse it was to risky. Capcom USA could have brought out Capcom VS SNK2 to the Dreamcast in the US, but they didn't. Deep Fear did come out in Europe. Also, if it was Bernie Stollars's fault why didn't Europe get alot more 3rd party Saturn support. Bernie Stollar didn't control Europe. the saturn's Death was the fualt of Sega of Japan.
europe definitely did see some interesting / weird / niche saturn games we didn't, however.
you know, something as massive as the death of a multiple-million-selling console from an international conglomerate can't possibly be marked down to the fault of a single person. in reality, SOJ, bernie, and a bunch of other people were complicit in this.
you know, something as massive as the death of a multiple-million-selling console from an international conglomerate can't possibly be marked down to the fault of a single person. in reality, SOJ, bernie, and a bunch of other people were complicit in this.
I'm not blaming Bernie for the "death" of the Saturn (there's plenty of blame to go around for that) but he was the main force behind it's shoddy wind down.sonic4ever said:
FWIW, Sega of Europe was planning to release the 4MB cart for Capcom (Capcom even made EU announcement about Resident Evil 2 and X-Men Vs street Fighter using it) as well as localize Grandia themselves before their bottom fell out. I expect that sans Bernie, Sega of America would've come to similar decisions as well as fostering the limited 3rd party support they did have. Saturn's final year would've been a lot brighter with stuff like DOA, Lunar, Radiant Silvergun or Deep Fear imo. Saturn really should've been handled better at it's end, Dreamcast might've had more consumer confidence if it had.
FortNinety
Member
Revolver said:It had to have been that picture of him in Next Generation.
I can't see his name without thinking of that..
I know exactly what you're talking about. He looked a total badass, Mafia don. My buddy even made a desktop wallpaper of it, I kid you not.
Kobun Heat
Member
How about half-assed US software support and premature yanking from store shelves?ferricide said:
MassiveAttack
Banned
jarrod said:
He's an old buddy of Nakayama-san's back from the days when Nakayama was president of SOJ. After Nakayama started Cavia he put Bernie on his personal payroll to represent the company in the US. When it became apparent that Bernie wasn't doing jack sh*t, he was canned.
Kobun Heat said:
When I compare the way Sega handled the Genesis to the way the Saturn was handled, I can't help but shake my head. In the 16-bit days, if there were a cool foreign game that nobody was planning on bringing to america, Sega would jump on it 90% of the time. The amount of games sega released themselves for the system was staggering. When the Saturn came around, it seemed like they turned their back on what got them where they were. Bullshit games like Ghen War, Black Fire, etc. and mostly arcade ports don't sell systems. While arcade ports are nice, in the end only people who liked the arcade game will buy them, and they don't have the length and replayability of most original efforts.
Buffy4ever
Banned
As weKnow Resident Evil 2 was canned for saturn. I didnt know Capcom annouced X-men vs Street fighter for the Satrun in Europe. I wounder why they didn't release it there? Europe seemed to get alot more Saturn games then america.jarrod said:
I agree if the other games had been released by Sega, the end would have been less painfull. I would love to play Shining Force 3 part 3 and 4.
Buffy4ever
Banned
Looking over this thread, it makes me realize that the only system that Sega didn't screw over in America was the Genesis. That system had great support and a long life. Both the Saturn and the Dreamcast were screwed over in the end. That is sad.
Buffy4ever
Banned
lordmrw said:
Ironicly, Sony was the company that acted more like Sega of the Genesis era during the 32 bit years. Sony would release quircky or the cool foreign game that nobody was planning on bringing to america. It is a shame that Sega didn't continue the trend.
sonic4ever said:
Sega even screwed the pooch on the Genesis when they decided to kill all support for all of thier other systems in favor of the Saturn. Though that had a much bigger effect in Europe where Sega was kind with The Master System and The MegaDrive and after that fateful choice
A lot of consumer base decided to either stick with the older system or defect over to Sony.
Stinkles said:
You somehow missed all the posts saying that Bernie was gone two months before the DC was released? :lol The end indeed...
I'm not sure about Giest Force...I do know that he's the one who canceled the game (perhaps at SOJ's request, perhaps in spite of), after using it to demo the DC back at E3 '98. It was a US game and I'm guessing one of his babies, so I doubt it was one of the reasons why he was fired. And if the urban legend was real, it wouldn't take anything else to get him fired. :lol
jarrod said:
Maybe, maybe not. It wasn't too long ago that a number of well regarded games were left in Japan. Tobal 2 (regarded as the best home fighter ever made at the time) didn't show up in the US, and that came out during the height of PSX's success. We'd already seen a long history of well regarded games left behind in Japan during the 8 and 16 bit days even if the console was going well. So to assume that games like X-Men vs SF which required the 4 Meg cart and would've been an expensive proposition (Sega gets dumped on for taking financial risks, and SOA now gets dumped on for not assuming the financial risk of the 4 Meg cart...typical) were going to show up here is nothing more then a guess.
It's pretty funny seeing the revionist history regarding how well the Genesis was supported, when most of the SOA catalouge was a steaming pile of licensed crap, while games like Alien Soldier, Pulstar and Ristar were either never released here or given miniscule pushes. Gaming fanboys and short memories seem to go hand in hand.
I don't think the way Saturn wound down meant much to DC buyers either. Ask most gamers and I doubt they even knew the Saturn existed, let alone owned the damn thing. Same way people act like so many millions of people got burned by the 32X, so they weren't gonna buy Sega hardware anymore. Which is just utter nonsense considering they sold what, 750,000 of those over here? That's a little less then the 30+ million strong that the Genesis were able to garner, and most seemed pretty happy with that machine. Alas the PSX was seen as the Genny's natural successor (and in many ways it was...Lord knows the marketing approach retained that feel), and the rest was history.
Saturn simply didn't appeal to people...it was a less glitzy and more expensive Playstation, and there was little reason for anyone who didn't have the Sega logo tatooed on their ass (like me) to bother with it. Had Daytona been up to snuff, and the launch price not been so ridiculous, and the launch not been so contentious, I suspect things would've been very different. But it wasn't. And that's not even getting into the Sonic fiasco. Again, blame SOJ for that.
Well, in an interview he confirmed shooting down Motot Toon GP at least (saying "Americans don't want games like that" or something to that effect). I suspect we'd have probably gotten all those games without him heading SCEA and SOA when he did.Shinobi said:
That likely had more to do with Tobal no.1 bombing hard (even with the FFVII demo bundled). Bernie was out of SCEA by that point iirc.Shinobi said:
Not really, Capcom USA was actively looking to get the cart released for their games. They even looked into releasing it themselves after SOA gave them the brush off, but like you said it was an expensive undertaking (especially for Capcom who'd been burned pretty badly by SSF2 a few years prior) and SOA was making their stance on Saturn retail support abundantly clear by then. Really, it's a domino effect... and likely why other publishers like Tecmo also backed out of US support last second in 1998. Had Sega shown some goodwill and helped burden costs (like the 4MB RAM cart) while promising retail support for another year, we'd have definitely seen more 3rd party product on Saturn in 1998 (and probably into 1999). As is, Sega's slash and burn ideology meant they went over a full year with absolutely no retail presence.Shinobi said:
This I can agree with, Sega ignored tons of great MegaDrive games in the mid 1990s (Monster World IV, Pulstar, Alien Soldier, Surging Aura, Crusader of Centy, all the Falcom ports, etc) and had pretty much killed support by 1995. In fact Phantasy Star IV was only published because SOJ demanded it. They were pretty progressive in the 1980s and early 1990s though, really pioneering stuff like bringing over RPGs like Phantasy Star and Ys... sort of like SCEA after Bernie left around 1996-1998 actually.Shinobi said:
Don't kid yourself, it hurt not only consumer confidence but industry confidence as well. Publishers and the media were extremely hesitant to support Dreamcast. It wasn't just Saturn though, Sega's history of repeated hardware misfires contributed.Shinobi said:
Just a nitpick, but Genesis only moved around 16-18 million in America.Shinobi said: