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[Afro Thunder]

Nice interview here: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=506354&page=1
And for all Microsoft hate needs, the following the link is a very good and must read article: http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html

GATES: We're responsible for the creation of the PC industry. The whole idea of compatible machines and lots of software — that's something we brought to computing. And so it's a responsibility for us to make sure that things like security don't get in the way of that dream. You know, its individual empowerment, information at your fingertips — we need to drive that forward.

 

[seanoff]

I'll Bite

Fuck Off Bill.

IBM created the PC and that compatible HW not you. Before that Commodore, Apple and others released personal computers. the Apple II for example. they weren't compatible but they were PERSONAL COMPUTERS.

What would MS be without IBMs introduction of the PC? Who knows, but certainly not in the position they are now. dickhead

 

[Che]

Bill Gates: Microsoft fucked the PC industry.

I totally agree.

 

[Forsete]

Billy is on a roll, first he calls everyone who does not agree with him on the software patent thingy a "communist", then he threatens Denmark on the same matter, "dont vote against the EU software patent proposal or I'll move 800 jobs out of the country".

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I see they've hired Gore as a PR consultant. :lol

 

[wobedraggled]

ummm....

 

[sprsk]

he didnt say he created the pc.

 

[Kon Tiki]

GATES: We're responsible for the creation of the PC industry.

He is right. He did not say he created the first PC, he said he created the industry that you know today.

 

[DarienA]

We would so be in the dark if the Lord Gates hasn't shed his light down upon us....

<bows in supplication>

He is right. He did not say he created the first PC, he said he created the industry that you know today.

He is right.... the PC industry where a large corp uses it's power and influence to monopolize the OS environment, to buy out or otherwise eliminate competition by any means necessary.....

Microsoft did create that industry....

 

[Che]

Billy is on a roll, first he calls everyone who does not agree with him on the software patent thingy a "communist", then he threatens Denmark on the same matter, "dont vote against the EU software patent proposal or I'll move 800 jobs out of the country".

WHAT?!?!?! This "human" has a lot of nerve threatening an entire country. And I really hope the EU votes against it.

PS to Bill: This is not USA here you freaking corporate nazi.

 

[dem]

whaa whaa whaa
microsoft is evil!!1!


bunch of crybabies

 

[Che]

whaa whaa whaa
microsoft is evil!!1!


bunch of crybabies

No instead we should just sit there and put up with Microsoft's tactics. Yes, let the greedy corporations rule this damn world. That's the spirit!

 

[Vark]

M$ HAHAHAHAHAHA It's like an 'S' but its a d0llar s1gn!!!1!!! Caus3 th3y're r1ch and I'm n0t (((

 

[DarienA]

whaa whaa whaa
microsoft is evil!!1!


bunch of crybabies

You are so right... I'm glad a REAL person came in here and laid down the truth for us.

 

[Nerevar]

I'll Bite

Fuck Off Bill.

IBM created the PC and that compatible HW not you. Before that Commodore, Apple and others released personal computers. the Apple II for example. they weren't compatible but they were PERSONAL COMPUTERS.

Wow, bitter? The fact is that Microsoft did create the industry as we know it today. Keep in mind that all PC machines developed before the IBM used proprietary software to run the OS (with the exception of machines that had no OS at all). It doesn't matter if you think they created a shitty industry, they did create it.

 

[Ghost]

No instead we should just sit there and put up with Microsoft's tactics. Yes, let the greedy corporations rule this damn world. That's the spirit!

meh, why not? it cant do a worse job than the guy we've got running it at the moment.

 

[DarienA]

Wow, bitter? The fact is that Microsoft did create the industry as we know it today. Keep in mind that all PC machines developed before the IBM used proprietary software to run the OS (with the exception of machines that had no OS at all). It doesn't matter if you think they created a shitty industry, they did create it.

Wait I'm a bit confused you said before the IBM... but what about during the IBM PC era?

 

[Che]

meh, why not? it cant do a worse job than the guy we've got running it at the moment.

Actually Bush is just a stupid meaningless puppet. The reason why this world is going to hell because corporations are the ones pulling the strings. And yes it can and will get worse.

 

[missAran]

Microsoft is responsible for the Microsoft-dominated PC industry? This seems redundant.

 

[Shogmaster]

MS is responsible for alot of standarization of the PC industry. Like it or not, if it wasn't for MS, things could be a lot omore fractured.

 

[belgurdo]

No instead we should just sit there and put up with Microsoft's tactics. Yes, let the greedy corporations rule this damn world. That's the spirit!

If it's worked for the past 200 years...

 

[Che]

MS is responsible for alot of standarization of the PC industry. Like it or not, if it wasn't for MS, things could be a lot omore fractured.

If by fractured you mean better, I agree. Competition is good. It actually makes things better price-wise and quality-wise. Basic stuff everyone is supposed to know.

 

[DarienA]

MS is responsible for alot of standarization of the PC industry. Like it or not, if it wasn't for MS, things could be a lot omore fractured.

I disagree... the various flavors of DOS would have sorted themselves out one way or the other without MS' involvement(they actually already were starting to...), and widespread use of a GUI would have come next even if MS had never gotten in.

 

[Phoenix]

While true, its a stupid statement to be honest. Any monopoly is certainly the one that brings standardization to the industry.

 

[Shogmaster]

If by fractured you mean better, I agree. Competition is good. It actually makes things better price-wise and quality-wise. Basic stuff everyone is supposed to know.

Isn't that exactly what's going on in PC space unlike in Mac space? Hello?

No, there isn't any competition in OS, web browser, word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software in PC realm, but everythig else is super competitive. And that goes for software and hardware.

In Mac space, the story is a lot worse. It' Apple that dominates EVERYTHING except for digital imaging, where Adobe's Photoshop still matters. And forget about hardware competition. What competition?

 

[DarienA]

Isn't that exactly what's going on in PC space unlike in Mac space? Hello?

No, there isn't any competition in OS, web browser, word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software in PC realm, but everythig else is super competitive. And that goes for software and hardware.

In Mac space, the story is a lot worse. It' Apple that dominates EVERYTHING except for digital imaging, where Adobe's Photoshop still matters. And forget about hardware competition. What competition?

I've never heard this before... (limited mac exposure) Apple's web browser and office suite are the #1 packages on that platform? What are they called?

 

[Shogmaster]

I've never heard this before... (limited mac exposure) Apple's web browser and office suite are the #1 packages on that platform? What are they called?

Are you saying that IE still reigns supreme in OSX? Sure, MS Office still does, but that's just one example. Everything else is Apple.

 

[Phoenix]

Isn't that exactly what's going on in PC space unlike in Mac space? Hello?

No, there isn't any competition in OS, web browser, word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software in PC realm, but everythig else is super competitive. And that goes for software and hardware.

In Mac space, the story is a lot worse. It' Apple that dominates EVERYTHING except for digital imaging, where Adobe's Photoshop still matters. And forget about hardware competition. What competition?

Apple software doesn't dominate everything - not even close. Apple controlling the hardware makes sense - Apple is a hardware company, that's where they make their money. As a result their software tends to be more on the affordable side. Microsoft is a software company - this is a different market entirely. PC hardware competition has driven the price of hardware down so far that few can make any money in the space anymore and outside of a few areas it is actually harming competition (this margins tend to do that). Anyways - since Microsoft is a software company their margins on software are much higher.

Two entirely different approaches to the market, neither one inherently better than the other. Many PC people are happier with the cheap hardware model because quite frankly they bootleg a significant portion of the software

 

[DarienA]

Are you saying that IE still reigns supreme in OSX? Sure, MS Office still does, but that's just one example. Everything else is Apple.

No I'm ASKING.... I said I have limited Mac exposure you said:

No, there isn't any competition in OS, web browser, word processing, spreadsheet, and presentation software in PC realm, but everythig else is super competitive. And that goes for software and hardware.

So what's the name of Apples Web Browser and their office suite that dominate? The only browser I hear about is Safari... is that Apple's? The only office suite I hear about is MS Office.

 

[Phoenix]

Are you saying that IE still reigns supreme in OSX? Sure, MS Office still does, but that's just one example. Everything else is Apple.

OSX browser share is actually spread across Safari, Firefox, Opera and for some bizarre ass reason Omniweb.

 

[Shogmaster]

No I'm ASKING.... I said I have limited Mac exposure you said:



So what's the name of Apples Web Browser and their office suite that dominate? The only browser I hear about is Safari... is that Apple's? The only office suite I hear about is MS Office.

Yeah, I forgot about Office for Macs, but I'd think most OSX users are using Safari over IE. And with the new announcement of Pages, I think the days of total domination of Word in Mac space is numbered.

 

[Shogmaster]

Apple software doesn't dominate everything - not even close. Apple controlling the hardware makes sense - Apple is a hardware company, that's where they make their money. As a result their software tends to be more on the affordable side. Microsoft is a software company - this is a different market entirely. PC hardware competition has driven the price of hardware down so far that few can make any money in the space anymore and outside of a few areas it is actually harming competition (this margins tend to do that). Anyways - since Microsoft is a software company their margins on software are much higher.

All well and good, but I think the way MS does business is no more insidious than how Apple does it. But then the fanboys never stop with the demonization of "M$" do they. It's funny to watch.

Two entirely different approaches to the market, neither one inherently better than the other. Many PC people are happier with the cheap software model because quite frankly they bootleg a significant portion of the software

I pay about same amount of money for software as my Mac counterpart ($200 or so for upgrading Photoshop and Painter every year or two). Where it really makes sense for me is in the hardware purchase. I stay competitive by upgrading my hardware every 18 months to nearly top of the line machine (in 2D creation) for mere $800 (mobo, CPU, RAM). If Apple lets me do that, I'd switch right now, just to have Jinx off my back.

 

[Shompola]

+1 Bill Gates

 

[DarienA]

All well and good, but I think the way MS does business is no more insidious than how Apple does it. But then the fanboys never stop with the demonization of "M$" do they. It's funny to watch.

That would probably be because for many folks the MS monopoly is much more far reaching in to their everyday lives than the Apple one.

 

[Shogmaster]

That would probably be because for many folks the MS monopoly is much more far reaching in to their everyday lives than the Apple one.

Then those complainers should just switch to Macs and shut the hell up about it. What's stopping them? Just to bitch?

 

[DarienA]

Then those complainers should just switch to Macs and shut the hell up about it. What's stopping them? Just to bitch?

That logic is just as dumb as the other side....

 

[Shogmaster]

That logic is just as dumb as the other side....

The point is, whole argument is rediculous.

 

[DarienA]

The point is, whole argument is rediculous.

Is it? Maybe on the top level, but when you think about it can you really say the Wintel monopoly has been good for the industry? Wait let me rephrase that... that the Wintel monopoly has been good for the end user. Sure it's been good for parts of the industry... those parts raking in the profits... but for the end user I think we've lost out on various products from company's driven out of business over the years.

But regardless here is where we are today.... all we can do is go forward.

 

[Shogmaster]

Is it? Maybe on the top level, but when you think about it can you really say the Wintel monopoly has been good for the industry? Wait let me rephrase that... that the Wintel monopoly has been good for the end user. Sure it's been good for parts of the industry... those parts raking in the profits... but for the end user I think we've lost out on various products from company's driven out of business over the years.

First of all, "Wintel"? It's been at least 6 years since AMD has made that term incredibly outdated.

And second, As an end user, I so do appreciate that the entry cost to computing has been lowered so much in the last 20 years. I don't think I want to go back to the days of $2000 entry level hardware.

But regardless here is where we are today.... all we can do is go forward.

With MS and the rest fighting it out. I just like to sit back and reap the rewards of competition.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Yeah, I forgot about Office for Macs, but I'd think most OSX users are using Safari over IE.

thats because IE on mac is absolutely horrible. i dont think it even works on Microsoft's own page..

 

[DarienA]

First of all, "Wintel"? It's been at least 6 years since AMD has made that term incredibly outdated.

Old habit, as we're discussing MS not sure how I slipped Intel in there.

And second, As an end user, I so do appreciate that the entry cost to computing has been lowered so much in the last 20 years. I don't think I want to go back to the days of $2000 entry level hardware.

MS has nothing to do with the decreasing cost of hardware, does AMD? But the competition of AMD did move Intel to keep increasing performance of it's CPU's thereby creating a larger family of chips which in turn drives down CPU costs....

So what does MS have pushing it?

 

[Particle Physicist]

Maybe we'd all be typing on bright red keyboards attached to our neon blue Macs.

no, i think people would still have some sense of taste.

 

[Shogmaster]

MS has nothing to do with the decreasing cost of hardware, does AMD? But the competition of AMD did move Intel to keep increasing performance of it's CPU's thereby creating a larger family of chips which in turn drives down CPU costs....

So what does MS have pushing it?

Are you kidding me? It's utmost in MS's interest to keep the hardware costs down. More hardware sold = more Windows packed in with it = more profits for MS!

Everything MS has done on the hardware side (you do know that MS and the hardware guys get together every year and decides on what standards are for the coming year, don't ya?) is to keep the costs down, and make it easy to impliment.

 

[DarienA]

Are you kidding me? It's utmost in MS's interest to keep the hardware costs down. More hardware sold = more Windows packed in with it = more profits for MS!

Everything MS has done on the hardware side (you do know that MS and the hardware guys get together every year and decides on what standards are for the coming year, don't ya?) is to keep the costs down, and make it easy to impliment.

MS does not produce hardware, MS does not drive down the cost of CPU's, of Hard disks, of graphics cards, etc. While they may help to work with driver/software standards/protocols, etc.. to help to make said devices easier to install, directly they do not control the prices of various hardware pieces.

 

[Shogmaster]

MS does not produce hardware, MS does not drive down the cost of CPU's, of Hard disks, of graphics cards, etc. While they may help to work with driver/software standards/protocols, etc.. to help to make said devices easier to install, directly they do not control the prices of various hardware pieces.

Now you're not even listening. I think we're done.

 

[DarienA]

Now you're not even listening. I think we're done.

There is a difference between MS interest and MS actual control... MS controls the OS industry, MS has interest in the hardware industry but does not control it.

Your signals are crossed.

 

[bobafett]

Bill Gates is an awesome human being and businessman. He is very balanced towards his points of view.

Screw the haters.

 

[NetMapel]

I appreciate the fact that Microsoft standardized many things so that it allows its Windows users to have access to a very wide range of software. Take the videogame industry for example, there are three main platforms, and if I have a Gamecube, then I will not be able to play FFXII or whatever that are exclusively on PS2. Because of Microsoft, all Windows users can use Photoshop, whatever software that you want without buying another OS. Look at Apply for example... they don't get half of our softwares even though they have good stability. If Longhorn can be as stable as OSX, then I am set for Longhorn !

 

[hyp]

sorry haters, but good ole' Bill is right. without MS, it'd be a whole different story in the PC industry.

 

[Deleted member 4784]

Microsoft didn't create the industry -- Apple did. Apple had a patent on the concept of the GUI itself. If Microsoft had not challenged Apple's monopoly on the OS market, then we would have a much stiffer "monopoly" on the computer industry today.

We've basically traded off one evil for another.