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[Blackace]

I just wanted to make a thread saying about how much I respect these guys! Being a RPG fan I have been fiending for RPGs the last couple of years! Not only has Bioware been giving me what I want but they have been giving me new games on the consoles. They have yet gone to their D&D goal mine, which I must say is very pleasing! Now I know Star Wars is nothing new, but a good Star wars game is. Also Jade Empire is an idea that must have been out there forever, but most people were afraid to do. I am looking forward to whatever they have in store for the next couple of years!!

 

[Do The Mario]

* Looks at own thread making history

Bioware fanboy recruitment drive/ appreciation thread ( 1 2 )

The definitive RPG! ( 1 2 ) (all about baldur’s gate)


Fuck yeah I am in!


People not posting there love make me sick!!

 

[ElyrionX]

Bioware rocks, plain and simple.

Definitely my favourite developer of all time.....

 

[Crispy]

I just started playing Baldur's Gate II for the first time and I'm totally digging it. A lot of quests, pretty varied and cool NPC's. Also the correct use of magic, depending on the enemy, can really determine the outcome of a battle. Hurrah for Bioware!

 

[Do The Mario]

I just started playing Baldur's Gate II for the first time and I'm totally digging it. A lot of quests, pretty varied and cool NPC's. Also the correct use of magic, depending on the enemy, can really determine the outcome of a battle. Hurrah for Bioware!

Did you play BG1 first?

What is your PC's class?

 

[6.8]

Now I know Star Wars is nothing new, but a good Star wars game is.

*looks back to 1994 and Tie Fighter*

No, it's not. But it's new in a short-term sense, for sure.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

My favorite RPG developer by far. Can't wait to get my hands on Jade Empire.

 

[Anachronox]

Bioware release a game and i buy it. No need for reviews and until i get burned by one of their games i'll keep buying them.

Jade Empire and Dragon Age will be in my collection on the day of release.

 

[gblues]

Meh. Bioware make great games but their writers suck ass. The plot of KOTOR is stolen wholesale from Baldur's Gate! Plus many elements are shamelessly borrowed from D&D or HP Lovecraft

Spoiler

(the "progenitor", the giant shark in Manaan, is clearly inspired by Cthulu)

.

And I keep expecting to hear Juhani yell "FOR THE FALLEN!" (she sounds like she's voiced by the same actor who played Jahiera in BGI&II).

Nathan

 

[Do The Mario]

Meh. Bioware make great games but their writers suck ass. The plot of KOTOR is stolen wholesale from Baldur's Gate! Plus many elements are shamelessly borrowed from D&D or HP Lovecraft

Spoiler

(the "progenitor", the giant shark in Manaan, is clearly inspired by Cthulu)

.

And I keep expecting to hear Juhani yell "FOR THE FALLEN!" (she sounds like she's voiced by the same actor who played Jahiera in BGI&II).

Nathan

Negative!

BG1 & BG2 contain some absolutely hilarious lines!

Like that spectator Beholder that randomly pops’s up all over the place saying:

Aye Captain my Captain! ROFL!!!!!!!!!

PLz don’t kill him!

 

[Slo]

Can anyone say DRAGON AGE?

 

[Ghost]

Biowares scripts are great, the dialog is actually believable, playing games like KOTOR and BG then playing other notable big name titles (I wont mention names to avoid a war) make me appriciate how great they really are.

It's a strange thing because no other part of their games really appeal to me, the graphics are never anything special, i hate turn based combat and have no particular interest in D&D. the stories, the characters and the dialog are the only things that attract me to bioware games, and im still always handing over my cash on day 1.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Only Bioware game I have played is KOTOR which rocked hard

Hate the camera system in their other games though.

Looking forward to KOTOR2

 

[Do The Mario]

Biowares scripts are great, the dialog is actually believable, playing games like KOTOR and BG then playing other notable big name titles (I wont mention names to avoid a war) make me appriciate how great they really are.

It's a strange thing because no other part of their games really appeal to me, the graphics are never anything special, i hate turn based combat and have no particular interest in D&D. the stories, the characters and the dialog are the only things that attract me to bioware games, and im still always handing over my cash on day 1.

Yep the scripts are gold!

Die haters!

 

[Do The Mario]

Only Bioware game I have played is KOTOR which rocked rocked hard

Hate the camera system in their other games though.

Looking forward to KOTOR2

KOTOR 2 isn’t Bioware!

There other games camera angles?

Baldur’s gate, Baldur’s gate 2 the fallout games are all top down 2D?

Are you talking about Neverwinter Nights?

 

[Doom_Bringer]

KOTOR 2 isn’t Bioware!

There other games camera angles?

Baldur’s gate, Baldur’s gate 2 the fallout games are all top down 2D?

Are you talking about Neverwinter Nights?

Yes, I hate the top down camera angles! I tried Neverwinter nights demo and didn't like because of the camera system.

"KOTOR 2 isn’t Bioware!"

But it still rocks right?

 

[Crispy]

Did you play BG1 first?

What is your PC's class?

Yeah I played BG1, but never really got into it, same story with BG2...I bought the games, but after a few hours I would give up. It was mainly due to the D&D jargon used and I expected it to be more like Fallout.

This time I did some research and play it slowly, so now I understand what everything means and I'm better at using magic effectively and my party is more balanced. Now the game really opens up and I'm having a ton of fun. I'm playing with a Fighter (berserker) by the way, half-orc for the high str and con.

[EDIT] that's why I said I play it now for the first time, it feels like a whole new game to me, last time I didn't even get out of Athkatla.

 

[Sein]

Yes, I hate the top down camera angles! I tried Neverwinter nights demo and didn't like because of the camera system.

"KOTOR 2 isn’t Bioware!"

But it still rocks right?

As I expressed in this thread, KOTOR II raises my appreciation of KOTOR I and Bio-Ware. KOTOR II is less of a sequel than it is a pale imitation.

 

[Gantz]

Bioware is great but Black Isle makes better RPGs.

 

[Azih]

Isn't Black Isle Obsidian now?

If so then sorry but KOTOR II wasn't a worthy sequel to KOTOR I.

Bioware plots aren't quite as ambitious as Black Isle/Obsidian stories, but the scripts are gold for both companies. I'd give the believable dialogue edge to Bioware though with BlackIsle taking the more sophisticated dialogue tree choice award.

 

[Sein]

Isn't Black Isle Obsidian now?

If so then sorry but KOTOR II wasn't a worthy sequel to KOTOR I.

Bioware plots aren't quite as ambitious as Black Isle/Obsidian stories, but the scripts are gold for both companies. I'd give the believable dialogue edge to Bioware though with BlackIsle taking the more sophisticated dialogue tree choice award.

It doesn't matter how good the dialogue is if it doesn't cohere into a comprehensible story. And although I do credit Obsidian for the technical merit of its writing, I found Kreia's lectures to be somewhat long-winded and irritating.

 

[Sysgen]

It doesn't matter how good the dialogue is if it doesn't cohere into a comprehensible story. And although I do credit Obsidian for the technical merit of its writing, I found Kreia's lectures to be somewhat long-winded and irritating.

Kreia is long winded and irritating. If you suck up to her you get rep. As far as the dialogue in KOTOR II I would imagine that was written by professional writers working for Lucas Arts.

 

[Borys]

Finally some BW love!

Here I go:

BG1 - The Pioneer. Good but DarkSun 2: Wake of the Ravager was miles better.

ID1 - Some people didn't buy BG1! They said Diablo's better. So let's make a Diablo out of BG1! FUN combat.

BG2 - The Master. After playing BG2 I couldn't look at BG1.

ID2 - wow, FUN x 100. Hard as fuck especially in the "super-hard" mode.

BG2:ToB - The Archmaster, The Omega. The Best BioWare RPG out there. Nothing before it and nothing after it came even close.

KOTOR - Why? I hat... dislike Star Wars and hate SW games.

NWN - Forget about it. Only HotU is worth the BioWare stamp.

BG3 - WHEN?

 

[Do The Mario]

Finally some BW love!

Here I go:

BG1 - The Pioneer. Good but DarkSun 2: Wake of the Ravager was miles better.

ID1 - Some people didn't buy BG1! They said Diablo's better. So let's make a Diablo out of BG1! FUN combat.

BG2 - The Master. After playing BG2 I couldn't look at BG1.

ID2 - wow, FUN x 100. Hard as fuck especially in the "super-hard" mode.

BG2:ToB - The Archmaster, The Omega. The Best BioWare RPG out there. Nothing before it and nothing after it came even close.

KOTOR - Why? I hat... dislike Star Wars and hate SW games.

NWN - Forget about it. Only HotU is worth the BioWare stamp.

BG3 - WHEN?

No you don’t love Bioware as you list Black Isle games, blasphemous!!


IWD – Maybe by Black Isle using biowares’ infinity engine.
IWD2- See above!

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Lordy, serious misinformation going on in this thread.

Just to Clarify Things here

Baldur’s Gate /Baldur’s Gate 2 = Bioware with some minor help by Feargus Urquhart, Black Isle President (now of Obsidian). Published under the Black Isle label

Neverwinter nights = Bioware, again with minor help by Urquhart towards the early part of the production. Originally was supposed to be published under the Black Isle(interplay) label, but Interplay got taken over by the good French lads at Titus and became not so nice(thus their cancellation of Baldurs gate 3 and fallout 3, yet “Go for it!” attitude towards the rather poor fallout console game). Bioware ended up deciding to sue Interplay instead.

Kotor = entirely Bioware(probably some lucasarts assistance too)

Kotor 2 = Obsidian

Neverwinter nights 2 = Currently in Development at Obsidian

Icewind Dale/Icewind dale 2 = Entirely made by Black isle using the infinity engine(with minor improvements) of Baldur's Gate. Chris Avellone designer of these games was lead designer of Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Planescape Torment

Fallout = Made by Interplay before Black Isle was even formed(the employees who worked on Fallout that stayed at the company would go on to form Black Isle) about half the team quit during the production of Fallout 2 and went on to form Troika games, developers of such lovable titles as Arcanum and Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines.

Whee, we can go even further back and connect the dots to the fact that certain Troika and Black Isle employees worked with Brian Fargo on the Original Bard’s tale(1987) and some of it’s sequels, plus wasteland(which fallout was the spiritual sequel too) and put InXile Entertainment into all of this too, if you wish. And I’ll stop the seven degrees at that.

 

[Date of Lies]

BG and BG2 are THE landmark RPGs. Kotor is a step backwards in about every aspect, IMO. Most of all artistic.

 

[Do The Mario]

BG and BG2 are THE landmark RPGs. Kotor is a step backwards in about every aspect, IMO. Most of all artistic.

Yeah I agree but BG/BG2 is the panicle of 2D RPG’s while KOTOR is a very good primitive 3D RPG.

I am excited about what they are going 2 accomplish on the next gen consoles!


Also any word on who is publishing dragon age?

If Microsoft picked it up they could have another exclusive!

 

[Duck of Death]

Bioware makes great games, but who made better use of the Infinity Engine: Bioware or Black Isle?

Bioware: Baldur's Gate I and II + expansions.

Black Isle: Planescape: Torment, Icewind Dale I and II.

Here's my take on these games, except for Icewind Dale II which I haven't played yet.

Baldur's Gate - Great game mechanics and a successful debut for the engine. However, the game suffers from some poorly conceived disc-swapping and an overall stale and lethargic narrative.

Baldur's Gate II - Expands upon the mechanics of its predecessor in every way conceivable. Amazing in its scope and execution. A masterpiece.

Icewind Dale - A more focused quest than the Baldur's Gate games, but the focus on combat pays off due to impressive game balance. The story is conventional but well-told. However, the game is a bit too repetitious.

Planescape: Torment - Arguably the most well-written narrative in a video game to date. Unique setting and puzzles. Clunky interface and some sloppy design in certain areas.

I like Bioware, but I miss Black Isle.

 

[Xellos]

BioWare love and no MDK2 mention yet? OK they're mainly an RPG developer but MDK2 rocked. I'm pretty sure Max the dog is still the only game character to do quad-wielding.

 

[Blackace]

BG and BG2 are THE landmark RPGs. Kotor is a step backwards in about every aspect, IMO. Most of all artistic.

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong... art wise KoTOR isn't anything to write home about, but story, gameplay and overall feel made up for that for sure
Open ended gameplay like that doesn't come to the console system often! They blended "PC style RPG" with "Console style RPG" and came up with a winner... just ask Square-Enix where they got their "new" battle system for FF XII from....

 

[Scott]

just ask Square-Enix where they got their "new" battle system for FF XII from....

What does Final Fantasy XI have to do with anything? Unless, of course, you're thinking they're using KotOR as an inspiration... in which case, you're sorely mistaken.

 

[Blackace]

I am? well I just my friends that are working on the game are wrong...

EDIT: I am talking about FFXII... don't know if you thought I was talking about FFXI or just mistyped...

 

[ElyrionX]

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong... art wise KoTOR isn't anything to write home about, but story, gameplay and overall feel made up for that for sure
Open ended gameplay like that doesn't come to the console system often! They blended "PC style RPG" with "Console style RPG" and came up with a winner... just ask Square-Enix where they got their "new" battle system for FF XII from....

Well, the story of KOTOR definitely was better than anything in BG1 or 2 but not the gameplay or "feel". BG1 and 2 just felt "better". It was way more immersive than anything in KOTOR.

KOTOR, while being a masterpiece in its own right, is lacking in a lot of areas. Most notably, it could have used a good amount of polish.

I like how the Persuade system was built into KOTOR1 and 2 and I would love for a similiar system to be implemented into future BG-esque games. Or was there already such a system in place in BG1 and 2? I never did have a high-intelligence hero in BG so I never knew whether such an elaborate dialouge tree ever existed in the BG series. Perhaps, even if it did existed, the devs could have made it more obvious and elaborate like in KOTOR.

 

[Blackace]

Well, the story of KOTOR definitely was better than anything in BG1 or 2 but not the gameplay or "feel". BG1 and 2 just felt "better". It was way more immersive than anything in KOTOR.

KOTOR, while being a masterpiece in its own right, is lacking in a lot of areas. Most notably, it could have used a good amount of polish.

I like how the Persuade system was built into KOTOR1 and 2 and I would love for a similiar system to be implemented into future BG-esque games. Or was there already such a system in place in BG1 and 2? I never did have a high-intelligence hero in BG so I never knew whether such an elaborate dialouge tree ever existed in the BG series. Perhaps, even if it did existed, the devs could have made it more obvious and elaborate like in KOTOR.

I agree that is did lack polish, like the side quests just getting up an leaving at certain parts of the game... And I never said it felt better or worse than BG1 or 2, I was just stating that it wasn't a step backwards in the RPG genre like another poster said... but while I am on the subject of feel, they nailed the overall feel of the Star Wars universe. Just like they did for they D&D universe... gameplay was awesome for the console only sub par for the PC..

 

[TekunoRobby]

I deeply approve of this thread, I too am a BioWare fan from way back in their early PC days.

Oh and MDK2 does indeed rock.

 

[Scott]

I am? well I just my friends that are working on the game are wrong...

EDIT: I am talking about FFXII... don't know if you thought I was talking about FFXI or just mistyped...

I know you're talking about Final Fantasy XII.

I also know what I've read in articles about the game, where Matsuno cites FFXI & the MMO genre as his inspiration for the combat system (pseudo real-time, auto-combat), the Gambit system (AI settings set to mimic distinct class traits/roles), the aggro system (enemies detecting you via smell, sound, or sight), and even where he got some development assistance (PlayOnline/FFXI team). Hell, he even ripped his favorite monster model, the Mandragora, straight from FFXI and put it into XII.

And honestly, about the only reasons I can think of for the "KotOR is the inspiration for FFXII" thing is because: a)most people simply haven't played FFXI, and b)KotOR is the only recent single-player title to feature an auto-combat system very similar to that found in FFXI/MMORPGs. Maybe I'm a little off here, but those are the best guesses I've got for it...

 

[Do The Mario]

I like how the Persuade system was built into KOTOR1 and 2 and I would love for a similiar system to be implemented into future BG-esque games. Or was there already such a system in place in BG1 and 2? I never did have a high-intelligence hero in BG so I never knew whether such an elaborate dialouge tree ever existed in the BG series. Perhaps, even if it did existed, the devs could have made it more obvious and elaborate like in KOTOR.

Yes there was such a system in place, for example my charismatic stalker was able to talk a Spectator Beholder into letting me have a look in the chest he was guarding because he convinced him he was guarding the “chest” and not what was inside the chest. The beholder got all excited and couldn’t wait to see what was in the chest.

My rugged Dwarf on the other hand had to kill the Beholder.

The system is in place you constantly gives you new dialogue options based on intelligence, Wisdom and charisma.

It also enables you to convince and manipulate characters into doing things based generally on your charisma.

So yes the system is in place it is not as “spelt out” as in KOTOR.

 

[Blackace]

I know you're talking about Final Fantasy XII.

I also know what I've read in articles about the game, where Matsuno cites FFXI & the MMO genre as his inspiration for the combat system (pseudo real-time, auto-combat), the Gambit system (AI settings set to mimic distinct class traits/roles), the aggro system (enemies detecting you via smell, sound, or sight), and even where he got some development assistance (PlayOnline/FFXI team). Hell, he even ripped his favorite monster model, the Mandragora, straight from FFXI and put it into XII.

And honestly, about the only reasons I can think of for the "KotOR is the inspiration for FFXII" thing is because: a)most people simply haven't played FFXI, and b)KotOR is the only recent single-player title to feature an auto-combat system very similar to that found in FFXI/MMORPGs. Maybe I'm a little off here, but those are the best guesses I've got for it...

Hahah well I am just taking what I was told from someone who works for Square and lives near me, here in Japan. I have played FFXI (gave it game of the show for GA when I helped to cover E3 2003) and the battle system is not that much like KoTOR. As for interviews I cannot see any Japanese developer saying he ripped a battle system off from another game... If my friend says the battle system is exactly like KoTOR I have to take his word for it...

 

[Blackace]

I deeply approve of this thread, I too am a BioWare fan from way back in their early PC days.

Oh and MDK2 does indeed rock.

Yes! Yes! Like I said before I decided to start this thread because of they are bringing new titles. Even though I want to see a BG3 I am really glad there isn't a BG 7 already, along with a bunch of off-springs in the same world...

 

[Scott]

I have played FFXI (gave it game of the show for GA when I helped to cover E3 2003) and the battle system is not that much like KoTOR.

I guess that depends on how extensive we're talking here.

If you leave KotOR on auto-combat, and compare it to a Melee class in FFXI, I think they're really quite similar. In both cases, you engage, and your character attacks until you tell him/her to do something else, and then goes back to attacking after that action is through. They're both psuedo real-time, auto-combat systems with an on-screen menu with actions selectable on-the-fly (or macro'd, which is possible in XI as well)... About the biggest differences I can think of is that your character in KotOR gets a hell of a lot more skills to use, and of course the pausing option, which well, just wouldn't work in an MMO.

If we're talking about methods of encountering enemies/engaging in combat, however, FFXII definitely gets it's inspiration from MMOs there. Everything in KotOR detects you based on line-of-sight, where-as the aggro systems in XI & XII have varying methods of detection from enemies, and likely methods of avoiding each as well (WHM-style Sneak & Invis spells, perhaps?).

Of course, if you set KotOR to turn-based, this comparison goes out the window... but that's so clunky I doubt anybody actually plays that way.

As for interviews I cannot see any Japanese developer saying he ripped a battle system off from another game... If my friend says the battle system is exactly like KoTOR I have to take his word for it...

Matsuno told us his design philosophy for Final Fantasy XII is one that marries the best aspects of off- and online RPGs. That's not to say the game will have stilted online components--quite the contrary; it's as focused on story and role-playing as any game in the Final Fantasy series. Matsuno told us that, while there are gameplay elements of online RPGs that he finds appealing, he's annoyed by the compulsion to be social in such games. FFXII will therefore bring aspects of MMORPG design, such as the aforementioned open-ended combat system, to the defined narrative structure that Final Fantasy is known for.

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/finalfantasy12/preview_6097934.html

Just a quick 2 minute search came up with that, I'm sure you can find other examples, and I know a bunch of places in their hands-on impressions compared it directly to FFXI... But that doesn't mean anything, I'm sure.


EDIT: Sorry for derailing the thread farther, it really wasn't my intention.

 

[Blackace]

While FFXI is made be Square... so saying that FFXII was based on that is cool and all. But no one would say that FFXII was copped from KoTOR. But anyways this doesn't really matter all that much. If you don't think it was copped from KoTOR, then no matter how many testers and programmers that worked at Square I talked to wouldn't change your mind. So that is fine... the real question is do you love Bioware or not?

 

[ElyrionX]

Yes! Yes! Like I said before I decided to start this thread because of they are bringing new titles. Even though I want to see a BG3 I am really glad there isn't a BG 7 already, along with a bunch of off-springs in the same world...

There is already a BG3 in development. PC Gamer (US) ran an article on it during their D&D issue some months back....

 

[Blackace]

There is already a BG3 in development. PC Gamer (US) ran an article on it during their D&D issue some months back....

Which is awesome! I can't wait... just glad they have not whored that series out completely and are still coming out with new games!