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[jufonuk]

currently speaking and making the case for the UK to get involved, I hope we don't go in. I really don't but well maybe I'm a pacifist.. I don't see how bombing Targets is going to stop ISIS, won't it just strengthen their resolve for revenge against us?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34927939

David Cameron says air strikes against Islamic State militants Syria would be in the UK's "national interest".
The prime minister denied claims it would make the UK a bigger target for terror attacks, as he made the case for military action in the Commons.
He told MPs the UK was already a target for IS - and the only way to deal with that was to "take action" now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-34930632

"This is an ISIL-first strategy", says David Cameron. "We are not naive to the complexity of the task," he adds, saying that the end goal is for inclusive governments in Iraq and Syria that command the confidence of all their peoples. He stresses once again that Syria's future cannot include President Assad.

oh dear, if the UK gets involved will we see Paris style attacks in London?, another long drawn out campaign.? Politics GAF enlighten me..

can mods change the tile , should be Against IS and he is making the case for strikes

 

[Salvadora]

Paris style attacks on London would be ISIS' desire regardless of a UK military intervention in Syria.

We're basically prime target number one.

 

[jelly]

Still think it's ultimately pointless if Assad stays around, your fighting against the help Russia gives them as well and if Assad goes it's an even bigger mess, where is the post plan for that outcome?

Still no plan to tackle funding for ISIS from countries, oil to Turkey etc. Shouldn't that be plan number 1 before even considering bombing. I can only think they hope ISIS and others make Assad crumble then they'll strangle the funding but not enough to annoy their pals in Saudi Arabia etc.

 

[Nexus Zero]

Getting involved certainly isn't going to make us any safer. Seems like willy-waving to me.

 

[Jezbollah]

currently speaking and making the case for the UK to get involved, I hope we don't go in. I really don't but well maybe I'm a pacifist.. I don't see how bombing Targets is going to stop ISIS, won't it just strengthen their resolve for revenge against us?

oh dear, if the UK gets involved will we see Paris style attacks in London?, another long drawn out campaign.? Politics GAF enlighten me..

can mods change the tile , should be Against IS and he is making the case for strikes

We've already had 7/7, we've had decades of domestic terrorism with the troubles in Northern Ireland. Our security services are pretty damn good at what they do, but even then no one country can stop every single security threat that comes their way - there simply isn't enough manpower.

The bullshit of the Iraq war has made us conscious of not engaging in conflict where the justification is not fully ascertained - but even then is the price of not doing anything bigger in the long run? We are already going after ISIL in Iraq. This would expand the operations to Syria. What we saw in Paris has accelerated this. However for me to be comfortable with any expansion of operations as proposed I would want the following:

1) A clearly defined objective that involves the elimination of ISIL targets ONLY (no involvement in strategic targets that currently form the internal power struggle in Syria's domestic conflict
2) Assurances that any such military engagement is operated on a completely understood framework of understanding with other powers operating there (France, Russia, USA) to ensure no operational issues while in close military activity
3) A greater expansion of diplomatic activity with all nations in the area to try and improve long term security for all sovereign nations

There is no doubt now that there is enough in place (UN agreement, 60+ Labour MPs support) that a vote can pass. Any bill needs to have these points in place to ensure that we go into conflict in Syria for all the right reasons, unlike Iraq.

 

[SteveWD40]

Paris style attacks on London would be ISIS' desire regardless of a UK military intervention in Syria.

We're basically prime target number one.

Yep, we have a large Muslim population that have to deal with lots of bullshit from our tabloid press / stupid people, just the people ISIS want to make feel even more isolated so they can recruit them.

The reason we haven't had it might be due to it being harder to get into the UK / get weapons on site etc... or maybe MI5/6 are just on form.

 

[danowat]

Paris style attacks on London would be ISIS' desire regardless of a UK military intervention in Syria.

We're basically prime target number one.

Luckily we have well maintained borders, and are not part of Schengen.

Without those, I think we'd have already had something recently.

 

[Jezbollah]

FYI: The debate live stream: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament

Also, it's worth to note that we're already bombing ISIL targets - the debate is to expand action into Syria - so the concern that suddenly we'll face attacks like in Paris is something we're already facing regardless of if we go into Syria or not.

 

[goomba]

Because British bombing of Iraq and Libya has worked our so well .

 

[Jezbollah]

Because British bombing of Iraq and Libya has worked our so well .

Has bombing of ISIL in Iraq been a failure?

 

[nib95]

No fucking thank you. I hope we stay the hell out and away. We've already been too involved imo. We also did enough damage in Iraq. Then we had the government actually support the rebels in Syria, many of whom became Daesh in the first place. No. Not only will we do more damage and become even more of a terrorist target, but we'll end up destabilising the region even more, and killing more innocent people in the process.

 

[PJV3]

I don't really see the point of it with the big boys flattening the little that's left of the place.

 

[Zaph]

Did enjoy the comment which amounted to "why should we bomb when the US is not bombing enough"

 

[danowat]

No fucking thank you. I hope we stay the hell out and away. We've already been too involved imo.

Too late for that, we're already balls deep in the conflict, the Paris attacks just means Cameron will try and put the balls in too.

 

[Uzzy]

As I said over on UK Poligaf, the idea of '70,000 moderate fighters' ready to take back land from ISIS sounds ludicrious. The only thing we're going to do by joining in is, at best, show solidarity with the French and the US.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

As I said over on UK Poligaf, the idea of '70,000 moderate fighters' ready to take back land from ISIS sounds ludicrious. The only thing we're going to do by joining in is, at best, show solidarity with the French and the US.

It'd be good if countries had facebook pages, then we could just change the UK's profile pic for a week. Instead we've got to spend millions of pounds on another bombing campaign.

 

[danowat]

It'd be good if countries had facebook pages

Turkey's relationship just became "it's complicated".

 

[Browny]

"Defence budget to rise from £34bn to £40bn by 2020, with extra cash for the security services"

"Let's bomb ISIS."

Gotta justify that defense budget somehow...

 

[jimbobsmells]

Trouble is all these countries are promising to help but have their own agenda in the outcome of Syria. Cameron wants to go in to do the same for the UK before other countries force an outcome that's not favourable to our interests. It's like at this point, everyone *assumes* ISIS will be destroyed at some point and they're planning for the end game already. I don't think that's a valid assumption without a real combined effort.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Children, teenagers, young men and women were born into warzones surrounded by destruction and death of their homes and loved ones. This created a generation of young people with psychotic issues who have now been easily manipulated to fight back against the West as they were the ones who caused the death of their friends, families and homes.

Destruction will only lead to more destruction, unless the world tackles the root of all problems and actually tries to help these people.

I understand that ISIS needs to be eradicated, but the reality of the aftermath is very sad.

Bombing alone won't bring stability.

 

[Walshicus]

We're collectively not prepared to spend trillions over decades to turn Syria into a functioning liberal state. This won't make us safer, this won't end the chuckle of violence there.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

He wants in because everyone else is in, pig fucker wants to sit at the big boys table. Keep out of it. Were as safe out as we are in and it won't waste money and morale bombing civvies and hospitals.

 

[NekoFever]

We're already bombing them in Iraq. What makes you think going after them in Syria is going to push them over the edge? I'm sure London is already one of their prime targets and will probably be attacked at some point, whether we go into Syria or not.

 

[Goodlife]

 

[MisterFalcon]

Not pictured here: free will of non-Western people. The White Man's Burden for the 21st century.

 

[TarNaru33]

While cute, this is terribly inaccurate

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Blow up another country? How about no. The U.K has yet to deal with its own problems.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Children, teenagers, young men and women were born into warzones surrounded by destruction and death of their homes and loved ones. This created a generation of young people with psychotic issues who have now been easily manipulated to fight back against the West as they were the ones who caused the death of their friends, families and homes.

Destruction will only lead to more destruction, unless the world tackles the root of all problems and actually tries to help these people.

I understand that ISIS needs to be eradicated, but the reality of the aftermath is very sad.

Bombing alone won't bring stability.

Agreed. A traumatised social and material environment has enabled extremist groups to walk in the open. Ratcheting up the military intervention even more will not kill the ideology or the ready supply of traumatised young men and women.

This is a war. The Paris attack was perceived by those who perpretrated that as part of a war. We have supported one fucked up group agains another in the past. I don't see us doing anything different this time. I would like to advocate intervention to get rid of IS, but I don't have any faith in our current governments to do it. Isis might disappear, extremism won't until it is countered with compassion and genuine capacity builiding and resource.