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[psycho_snake]

Currently I am trying to research different jobs. I've looked into teaching, civil enginnering, graphics and now I'm trying to learn about programming, so I thought that GAF would be a perfect place.

I know very little about programming, so I will tell you what I know:

I know that there are different languages used in programming, two of those that I know are C++ and Java, but I don't know what they do.

I've looked up programming in videogames, but outside of videogames and computers, I don't know what else programming is used for.

Also, i am sure people on these forums are programmers, but what field do you work in and do you find it fun or entertaining?

 

[Pochacco]

Programming is a means of describing an algorithm - which is basically a set of actions to solving a problem (in a finite amount of time blah blah blah).

What is programming?

It's hard for me to explain without going into all the technical jargon I've learnt in school. But um, let's just say programming is about solving a problem by writing up a plan to tell a computer what to do. Programming's heavily based on math and logic.

Er...yea...crap. Now that I think about it, I've learnt quite a lot in computer science..

 

[RiZ III]

Anywhere there is any kind of cpu, there is programming. A lot of times with lower machines or cpus, your writing code in assembly langauge. Assembly language is kind of more difficult to grasp than higher level languages so I wont talk about that.

C/C++ are usually used to write big software and games. Although C# and Java are becoming popular too these days. But C/C++ still have a loong life ahead of em.

Programming can be a lot of fun cause you can do or make pretty much anything you want on a computer or other machines operated by cpus. It could be be a tool, a game, an emulator, ai for some robot, operating system, and the list goes on. Ofcourse doing most of this stuff isn't a walk in the park, but if you know what your doing, anything is possible. So much power!! Mwuahaha. As I said programming isnt only limited to software, it can also be used in other fields such as robotics. Like last year I had to write AI for a robotic car. It was kind of an extra class and it was a team project. It was pretty cool. Our car was pretty basic, it detected walls so it wouldnt crash into them. Went around the room and stuff. Other teams had some really crazy stuff tho. They had all sorts of sensors on there. It was a bitch tho and it was all written in assembly. Ofcourse I'm in the field to make games and thats where my interest lies. You can make your own universe in a game and do whatever the hell you want. My first game was actually a torture sim in qbasic... I wrote that like 6 years ago.. but thats another story.

 

[fart]

man fuck that noise

 

[Nerevar]

you realize you basically just asked "what is engineering?"

"Programming" covers a huge variety of occupations, and from your post (no offense) it's pretty obvious you have no idea what those occupations are and how they are interrelated. There are "programmers" working in all fields, including medicine, graphic design, hardware, software, banking, etc etc. You can't really ask a question that broad and expect any decent answer.

 

[Phoenix]

Also, i am sure people on these forums are programmers, but what field do you work in and do you find it fun or entertaining?

If you like creating interesting things, programming will be enjoyable so long as you're allowed to create interesting things. Programming is a discipline of computer science where you write applications that solve problems. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Programming is present just about everywhere, hell your TV has microcontrollers in it that were programmed by someone at some point

There are books out there that introduce people to programming in a language agnostic manner and I would recommend you head to your public library (or google on the subject) and read a bit.

 

[Vieo]

I'm a poser coder(still in school :lol )

From what I've learned so far, I see programming as a language, like English.

If you can manage to assemble the words(instructions) of the language into a coherent sentence, you can get the computer to do something.

Now, if you can assemble the words(instructions) of the language into a group of coherent sentences, much the way J.R. Tolkien did when he wrote Lord of the Rings, you'll get the computer to do something amazing... like what Microsoft did with WindowsXP.

 

[Crimson Dragon]

Certain parts of it. Being handed a new problem and being told to figure out how to make it happen is fun. Especially if I hadn't done anything like that before. Maintenance programming though, to me, is a boring task. I code on an iSeries for a division of Time Warner, so I mainly do mass updates on files and reporting. For my job, it's mostly about automating repetitive tasks that can be done quicker and more accurately with a program.

I usually also have to figure out how to fix mistakes that people make ... people that probably shouldn't have access to what they screwed up in the first place :b. It is cool though being able to make a computer do practically anything you want it to.

 

[Azih]

Programming is the art and science of getting a computer to do what you want it to do.

Problem is that computers are the stupidest dumbest things on the face of this earth.

Edit: A quote is called for here some famous computer scientist or engineer said "...actually, computers are clumsy, stupid beasts... They haven't the brains of a retarded ant."

All of computer science is a study on WHAT you can get a computer to do, and how to get it to do the things you want it to do efficiently.

As for what programmers do? they do everything. This forum software is a program, Windows is a program, ATMs runs on programs, GPS systems, cell phones, most medical equipment, digital watches, calculators, all run on programs.

programmers created MSN Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, ICQ etc. Programmers worked on Xbox Live, online banking systems, Amazon.com, all programming.

 

[rastex]

STAY AWAY!

 

[psycho_snake]

STAY AWAY!

reasons?

I would love to do videogames, but arent working hours a killer?

I've still been digging stuff up. From what i have read, Java is mainly used for (making) web pages, just like HTML. C++ is used to make software, but is harder to use than Java.

I've been looking at different jobs to do with programming. A lot of what I have found is working as a programmer for a financial/medical institute. what exactly would you do if you work in those industries?

 

[Nerevar]

reasons?

[stereotype]Because most programmers are huge nerds who have no life and will never, ever get laid[/stereotype]

I would love to do videogames, but arent working hours a killer?

The hours are bad and it's one of the hardest industries to break into. Plus, it requires a fairly diverse skill-set as well as the desire to work long hours for little (comparatively) pay.

I've still been digging stuff up. From what i have read, Java is mainly used for (making) web pages, just like HTML. C++ is used to make software, but is harder to use than Java.

Quick lesson, javascript =/= java. They're very different technology. Most web-based programming is done in scripting languages like ASP, javascript, PHP, etc etc. C++ isn't "harder to use" than java, they're both about the same. Java has a more complete API (set of tools basic to the language) and a safer environment to work in, but C++ is more powerful and versatile as well as being a much older and more diverse technology.

I've been looking at different jobs to do with programming. A lot of what I have found is working as a programmer for a financial/medical institute. what exactly would you do if you work in those industries?

This is where most programming jobs are. In financial, everything is done using computers. When you open a bank account, it's automatically created. Whenever you write a check, it's automatically processed by a computer. Your loan packages are all set up in a computer which then automatically generates payments and monthly bills. This reduces the overhead involved in these processes and makes financial institutions more efficient. In healthcare, they once again want stuff to be efficient and dependable, that's why they use developers. Most biotech companies especially want people who can program to write small pieces of software to run in modern medical devices. There are lots of other examples, it's just a quick rundown to give you an idea.

 

[fart]

HELOOO NURSE

 

[Crimson Dragon]

I can tell you that a lot of hospitals use iSeries. At least in my area they do. Around Ohio, there are very few hospitals that don't. An iSeries supports C, Java and COBOL, but the primary language used is RPG, RPG IV, Free-Format RPG, etc. (Various flavors of RPG).

I don't know about what sort of work, but my guess would be primarily file processing, updating, writing, stuff like that.

 

[SFA_AOK]

Psycho - I'd say give programming a go before you make a decision about where to take your career. Saying "I'm gonna get into games programming!" then finding out you hate C++ is gonna be hard

Dipping your toe in the water isn't hard, costly or time consuming. You can get programming with just a couple of downloads and a little tinkering with your computer. Bear in mind though there are different tools for different jobs.- Java's certainly not used mainly for webpages! Though programming languages share a lot in common, they differ in syntax, purpose and use.

It's also not for everyone. From what Crimson Dragon says it sounds like I'm the opposite of what he thinks - that may just be my circumnstances atm talking but it differes for people obviously.

Be careful how you learn. There are plenty of books, sites, courses etc that going to teach you more bad programming habits than good ones. And be realistic; to go from complete novice to games programmer is quite a journey and not exactly something you're going to do if you're planning on working on it a couple of nights a week for a couple of months. It's hard but can be satisfying, try and bear that in mind through the difficult times Saying that... Different people pick it up at different rates - if you have an aptitude for it, you'll pick it up quickly (duh) but more importantly, you'll stay enthusiastic and eager to learn.

Anyway, those are the first batch of thoughts in my head that I manage to blurt out here

 

[Azih]

Sun does the best job of introducing people to programming via their java website I've found.

Go through the steps at http://java.sun.com/learning/new2java/index.html psycho. That should give you an idea. Be aware though that going from Java -> C++ is harder then going from C++ -> Java, but getting your toes wet with Java is a good introduction.

 

[Pochacco]

Mind you, if you're a software developer ("programmer" is like calling a dentist a "teeth-puller"), you'll most likely be spending most of your time NOT actually programming. There's a lot more to it than just typing away at a program. It largely depends on what field you're in (and there are countless fields), but you also have to do things like gather customer requirements, design software, test, etc.

If you're making games, you won't just be typing away and coding 24/7. You'll also have to talk to artists, lay out your design, look at the hardware and see what's possible, test, etc.

The best part of 'programming' is it's incredibly powerful. One of my professors stated "you can do anything" - sounds exagerated but when you think about it, it's true. Computers are a3wsum!11! It's incredibly rewarding when something goes right. Also, the industry is very dynamic - you're always learning new things, because you have to.

On the negative side of things, I HATE COMPUTERS.

 

[rastex]

reasons?

It's like this. If you're past the age of 12 and don't know some basic programming concepts then it's likely you don't have a passion for it. And without having a passion for programming, there's a 99% change you're going to HATE and DETEST it.

I'm assuming you're older than 12, thus STAY AWAY

 

[Chrono]

It's like this. If you're past the age of 12 and don't know some basic programming concepts then it's likely you don't have a passion for it. And without having a passion for programming, there's a 99% change you're going to HATE and DETEST it.

I'm assuming you're older than 12, thus STAY AWAY

That's bullshit. People discover new things all the time. You have no idea if he’ll love or hate programming. The only way to know is for him to learn it first and then decide whether he has the passion for it or not. It's HIS decision.

 

[Azih]

Yeah rastex is speaking out of his ass on this one. While a large number of people who have never programmed before drop out of first year programming courses in university and college, an equally large number of them get used to it and excel.

 

[psycho_snake]

Are there any places online where I can try some programming. Thats probably the closest i will get to it in a long time

 

[rastex]

Yeah rastex is speaking out of his ass on this one. While a large number of people who have never programmed before drop out of first year programming courses in university and college, an equally large number of them get used to it and excel.

*shrug* I'm in 4th year Software Engineering right now and I've met a lot of people who don't have the passion for it. Hell, I have some passion for it and even I hate programming a lot of the time. Most of my friends are in the same boat. I mean they're all good at it (we're always in the same group) and there are those cool moments, but you can tell very easily who has the passion for it and who doesn't. And those that don't have a passion for it HATE it.

I mean I know a girl who didn't start programming until she entered University. Is pretty darn good at it and has a good job doing it. But she still really really hates it.

I guess you could really say that doing any job you don't love is tough and people hate. It's just that programming is a very intense and grueling endeavour that just really drains you. Spending 8-12 hours a day in front of a computer hacking away at code, designing code, debugging code on and on and on it takes its toll on you.

 

[SFA_AOK]

I dunno, the 12 year old thing was wrong but most of the rest of the stuff you say is correct.

 

[Crimson Dragon]

Personally, I'd have to disagree. I don't find programming intense or grueling at all, even in the face of the hardest problems. I find it aggrevating sometimes when I get a block and can't figure the solution out right away. I really enjoy programming and my job for the most part though.

Then again, my style of programming is that once the problem is defined and I know what the end result has to be, I can just sit down and start coding on it. Psuedo code, flow charts and the like just slow me down. It's easier for me to start and say, okay, what should the computer do next.

Then the requestor changes their mind :b.

 

[SFA_AOK]

Crimson sounds like you have the enthusiasm for it

 

[Crimson Dragon]

Yea, I guess I do

 

[rastex]

I dunno, the 12 year old thing was wrong...

Ya, obviously I was exaggerating, but not by too much. My reasoning is that in this new Internet age where computers are everywhere if you have that spark, or interest or whatever, I think it's gonna come out at a pretty young age. And from that finding even the most basic of info about programming is ridiculously easy (on the internet anyway).

 

[iapetus]

Be aware though that going from Java -> C++ is harder then going from C++ -> Java, but getting your toes wet with Java is a good introduction.

IME, Java coders make better C++ coders than C++ coders make Java coders.

 

[Phoenix]

IME, Java coders make better C++ coders than C++ coders make Java coders.

Believe this news

Java developers are (mostly) OO developers and tend to actually make object oriented C++ code. Can't say the same about most "pure" C++ programmers, many of which came from non-OO C code and make some of the most god-awful code I've ever seen.

 

[Azih]

True but dammit, I like my Java and C# stuff, I hate having to even think about pointers, deallocation and :shudder: Makefiles.


I AM WEAK!

 

[Azih]

Are there any places online where I can try some programming. Thats probably the closest i will get to it in a long time

Dude I gave you a link. http://java.sun.com/learning/new2java/index.html

It's the most straightforward introduction you'll get.

 

[Ghost]

Imagine you have a problem and know exactly how you should be able to solve it

Say a knot in a piece of string, you need to unravel it

Now imagine your hands are breezeblocks and you have to untie it with your tounge but your tounge is on fire, and if you try to untie it the wrong way, you'll die (though at this point, with a flaming tounge and breezeblocks for hands, death would be a sweet release)

Now imagine someone sitting next to you unravelling the knot and dozens others like it in seconds while you continue to burn and pray you'll pass out or die soon.

Now imagine a tiny midget pounding your bollocks with his powerful tiny fists while you try to work.


This is what the first 3 years of programming feel like. Enjoy.


It gets easier though.

After 4 years the midget starts using his left hand and you get the use of one finger for your work, and some anti-septic cream for your tounge.

 

[RiZ III]

If your not writing OO code in C++, then ur pretty much just writing in C.

 

[Pochacco]

If your not writing OO code in C++, then ur pretty much just writing in C.

Not really. C++ has a lot of additional features that are not OOP-oriented...such as the STL.

One of the best things about Java is the centralized, absolutely awesome documentation on Sun's site. Does anyone know if there's any site equivalent for the C++/C language? I usually use cplusplus.com, but it's not flawless.

 

[RiZ III]

STL is mostly all object oriented.

 

[rastex]

I use www.cppreference.com for everything STL, very concise and straightforward.