Car GAF, need your help picking my first car

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jwk94

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Right now I have a 2002 Chrysler Sebring 2 door coupe. I've had the car for around six years now and as much as I love it, the thing is starting to show its age. Now that I'm done with college, I think it's time to get my first car, but idk where to start. Here are my needs:

- Good in a snowy environment (I live in Indiana so weather is pretty unpredictable)
- Good gas mileage (I get 20 city / 28 highway now)
- Can be a typical sedan, crossover, mid-size or compact SUV
- Year 2010+
Budget: $12,000

Right now, I'm looking at a 2010 Subaru Legacy since those seem to be reliable cars and they have all-wheel drive for the snow, but I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for the help!
 
Mobius 1 said:
You already made the right choice. Subaru Legacy or Impreza (and it's variants) will do you no wrong.
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Well that's good to know! Between the Legacy and Impreza, what's the better car? From what I understand, the difference seems to be size.
 
I'm a huge fan of the Honda Civic and Accord, personally. Reliable, fun to drive, cheap to maintain and insure. And I think they're both better looking than the Legacy. They don't come in AWD, but I live in Massachusetts and my Accord got me through a few really terrible winters with no real problems. They're fine in the snow without AWD.

Also in my experience Subaru drivers tend to be dicks so I have a negative connotation with that particular brand, ha
 
I own a brand new Subaru with all wheel drive and take it off road in my work all of the time. It's amazing.

So if you find a Subaru go for it.

Word of warning though. Subaru replacement parts are expensive. You can't always go to a random mechanic to get shit fixed because they aren't that common so it's not a guarantee they have a part in Stock.
 
jwk94 said:
Right now I have a 2002 Chrysler Sebring 2 door coupe. I've had the car for around six years now and as much as I love it, the thing is starting to show its age. Now that I'm done with college, I think it's time to get my first car, but idk where to start. Here are my needs:

- Good in a snowy environment (I live in Indiana so weather is pretty unpredictable)
- Good gas mileage (I get 20 city / 28 highway now)
- Can be a typical sedan, crossover, mid-size or compact SUV
- Year 2010+
Budget: $12,000

Right now, I'm looking at a 2010 Subaru Legacy since those seem to be reliable cars and they have all-wheel drive for the snow, but I'm open to suggestions. Thanks for the help!
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I had a '98 Impreza GT. Was an awesome car, awesomely quick and reliable. Gas mileage was bad, but this model was the turbo nutter variant of the Impreza. Also the 4wd system is very tough and can take a lot of beating. The Impreza was very rust prone, though. Every Impreza rusts through at the rear wheel arches and inside the trunk because the rear section is formed out of several sheets of metal that aren't sealed between them, thus water always stays there and the car rots away under your ass. Expensive to repair. I hope newer Subarus are improved in this regard. Also, spare parts aren't cheap. Once, while driving at top speed on the Autobahn, there was a huge bang, and I pulled off the road and saw that the plastic strip around the windshiled had flown off (and hit the roof while doing so). That flimpsy piece of plastic cost €60 to replace, without labour.
 
I don't know much about cars aside from the fact that the best option (if you make a decent paycheck, but are still on a budget) is buying a few years old certified pre-owned. You seem to already be doing that, though.

The second criteria for me is safety, and both the Impreza and Legacy have really good crash test ratings. So I guess you're good there too.

So it seems to me that you've done sufficient research. I guess buy whichever one of the Subarus has the color you want, or was taken care of the best by the previous owner.
 
Thank you for the help, everyone. I have one more question: how do car payments work? I see a Subaru Legacy for $8k at $78/month. Am I really only paying $78 a month or is there something else I should know?
 
I test drove a 2014 Legacy and a 2013 Honda Accord and ended up with the Accord. The 2014 Legacy was alright, but the 2015 and newer Legacy is awesome. I didn't want to spend that much, though. My car was $15k and had 31k miles, and I've been averaging 28 mpg in town and on the highway.
 
My baby. Had to sell her after owning her for only four months, because money, after wanting one since riding in one when I was 18. Miss her :(

jI7y5iw.jpg
 
Subaru gas mileage isn't that great and you really don't need AWD. If you actually get consistent snow over the winter you're just fine with FWD only and swapping your tires for winter tires. Even a RWD car with winter tires is better than an AWD car on all seasons, and it's a wide margin at that.

Your specs are so wide that almost anything could be had. Do you care about luxury? Do you want power? More recent for higher tech or older if tech isn't your thing? So many options.

For you, I'd say try to get something like a Honda Fit with low miles. Plenty of space, great mileage, very reliable, simple, will last a long time.

jwk94 said:
Thank you for the help, everyone. I have one more question: how do car payments work? I see a Subaru Legacy for $8k at $78/month. Am I really only paying $78 a month or is there something else I should know?
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$8000 at $78/month? Who the fuck is saying this? Is this after trade in? (Hint, that's 102 months at $78/mo. to get to $8000, and that would be at 0% interest. Unless that's after a lot of money down that doesn't make sense)

Look at the total price, which is the price per month times the duration of the loan. Dealers will talk monthly price because they want you thinking about how much you can afford per month, then they can make their money on interest by extending the life of the loan. You should consider the monthly payment, but be mindful of how long it is and how much you're actually paying for the car. It doesn't make sense to buy an $8000 car for $9000 over seven years.
 
jwk94 said:
Thank you for the help, everyone. I have one more question: how do car payments work? I see a Subaru Legacy for $8k at $78/month. Am I really only paying $78 a month or is there something else I should know?
Click to expand...

That won't include tax/title. It won't be exact, but when i was looking I would typically tack a +10% onto the price of the car and figure the payment from there.
 
jwk94 said:
Thank you for the help, everyone. I have one more question: how do car payments work? I see a Subaru Legacy for $8k at $78/month. Am I really only paying $78 a month or is there something else I should know?
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There are a ton of surprise costs when buying a new car.

The advertised price of $0 down, $78/month is misleading, because it's pending credit approval, and usually only for people who have spotless credit. So if your credit score is <850, then you'll most likely be paying more per month.

Then, if you have to finance the car, there's the issue of what sort of interest rate you're going to get. This is dependent on your credit score again, obviously, and you don't really want to be paying anything >8%. You'll end up paying much more for the car at the end of your loan than it was actually worth.

Then, if you're buying from a dealership, they'll take you in a back room and throw all these surprise extras at you with some overly nice sales person. They'll prod you into buying things like tire insurance, gap insurance, a few different kinds of warranties, and a maintenance program at the dealership. That could easily add an extra $5,000+ to your bill if you agree to all of it.

Then, since you're financing your car, the lenders will probably want you to buy more expensive insurance than you might have now.

It's kind of lame how many hidden costs there are in buying a new car.
 
chifanpoe said:
2014 Ford Fiesta ST /w the optional RECARO seats.
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Love mine, but there is no way to find one for under 12k.

If I lived in a snowy area, I'd definitely get a Subaru of some kind just for the all wheel drive, but I don't know the first thing of driving in the snow yearly.
 
2002whitegt said:
Love mine, but there is no way to find one for under 12k.

If I lived in a snowy area, I'd definitely get a Subaru of some kind just for the all wheel drive.
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I have seen two of them sell here in the Greater STL area for under 13k both less than 50k miles. They prices are falling on them big time just like most domestics.

KBB value after looking it up private sales ~ 13250, trade-in value 11500.

Patiently waiting for the ATS-V to hit that magic 3-4 year mark...
 
compo said:
There are a ton of surprise costs when buying a new car.

The advertised price of $0 down, $78/month is misleading, because it's pending credit approval, and usually only for people who have spotless credit. So if your credit score is <850, then you'll most likely be paying more per month.

Then, if you have to finance the car, there's the issue of what sort of interest rate you're going to get. This is dependent on your credit score again, obviously, and you don't really want to be paying anything >8%. You'll end up paying much more for the car at the end of your loan than it was actually worth.

Then, if you're buying from a dealership, they'll take you in a back room and throw all these surprise extras at you with some overly nice sales person. They'll prod you into buying things like tire insurance, gap insurance, a few different kinds of warranties, and a maintenance program at the dealership. That could easily add an extra $5,000+ to your bill if you agree to all of it.

Then, since you're leasing your car, the lenders will probably want you to buy more expensive insurance than you might have now.

It's kind of lame how many hidden costs there are in buying a new car.
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I agree with most of this, especially when buying a used car.

If you're buying a new car, though, the gap insurance is worth every penny. Protects your investment should you total your car, because of the massive depreciation after you drive it off the lot.
 
chifanpoe said:
I have seen two of them sell here in the Greater STL area for under 13k both less than 50k miles. They prices are falling on them big time just like most domestics.

Patiently waiting for the ATS-V to hit that magic 3-4 year mark...
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If that's so, the Fiesta ST is an awesome little car, and I've seen plenty of guys using snow tires on reddit and the Fiesta forums.

Love mine to pieces, my brother liked mine so much he got one too.
 
2002whitegt said:
If that's so, the Fiesta ST is an awesome little car, and I've seen plenty of guys using snow tires on reddit and the Fiesta forums.

Love mine to pieces, my brother liked mine so much he got one too.
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Yes they are amazing cars, new or used. I have driven a few stock and modified around a track and autocross. I would buy one in a second in that price range. Good set of snow tires and it will eat through the snow, still be amazing fun, hold all your stuff, and get good MPG. It is like a slightly bigger, cheaper, version of my R56 (MINI Cooper S)
 
I live in an area where it snows, and I mean it really snows. We average over 8 feet or snowfall per year.

You are kidding yourself with AWD. If this is your first car, I highly recommend a Honda or Toyota. Throw some winter tires on it and it will be unstoppable. I've owned over 10 different vehicles, and my driving conditions are extreme (-40 to +40 celcius) and some of the worst roads in the country. Nothing holds up even close to a Honda or Toyota.

I should take my own advice, right now I'm ripping around in a Mazda 3. Although it's "fun" to drive, it's garbage compared to my old Civic, or my wife's Yaris.
 
David Incorporated Esq. said:
Subaru gas mileage isn't that great and you really don't need AWD. If you actually get consistent snow over the winter you're just fine with FWD only and swapping your tires for winter tires. Even a RWD car with winter tires is better than an AWD car on all seasons, and it's a wide margin at that.
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I have yet to see any of my neighbors make it up the hill w/snow on the ground in a RWD vehicle, even with winter tires on. Most everyone on my street owns a SUV or AWD car. Just to deal with the shitty winter conditions.
 
Kill3r7 said:
I have yet to see any of my neighbors make it up the hill w/snow on the ground in a RWD vehicle, even with winter tires on. Most everyone on my street owns a SUV or AWD car. Just to deal with the shitty winter conditions.
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Very true if it gets icy it does not matter what you run, unless chained up. You wont make it through some things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=942VXoWWWQI

When I lived in WA this was one of the roads to get to my house at the top of the south hill. My old 2005 STi with snow tires would not make it up in bad days.
 
Ive been rocking a Subaru Impreza RS Wagon since 2005. Has 165k miles on it and as of yet I have had zero major problems. Its a tank in the snow.

Get a Subaru!
 
Kill3r7 said:
I have yet to see any of my neighbors make it up the hill w/snow on the ground in a RWD vehicle, even with winter tires on. Most everyone on my street owns a SUV or AWD car. Just to deal with the shitty winter conditions.
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Do you know for sure they're winter tires and not all seasons? Because all seasons are still a far cry from winters but people will still say "They're for winter, see? All seasons!"

djSyndrome said:
We get 36mpg highway in our outback with a full family and luggage on board. If that's not a good utility to mileage ratio, I don't know what is.
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36mpg? How are you measuring? Because that sounds extremely hard to believe.
 
Flo_Evans said:
I mean you are correct but that video the SUV has summer tires not all seasons. :P
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Even with very good all season tires my wife's old X3 was never as good as our A3 or STi with snow tires when we lived in Spokane WA. We tried it one winter with them and it sat in the garage when the snow came. The next year studless snows went on.
 
Vw tiguan. I got my 2010 for 10k even this spring with 55,000 miles. Hell of a deal. 0 problems in 6k miles. Love it.
 
I bought new, but seconding Honda Civic. I'm on my second Civic (a 2016; last one was a 2008) and both are a joy to drive. The old one got me through several snowy winters just fine, though you definitely want to choose a good tire for the job (I rode on the Continental ExtremeContact DWS).

You should be able to pick up an 8th gen Civic (my 2008 was an 8th gen) for your desired price point. I'd also suggest, before you buy, to get prequalified for auto loans through places like PenFed, Lightstream, your local bank, etc. just to see what APR you get, and to use as leverage to get better financing if you end up buying your car through a dealer rather than third party.
 
David Incorporated Esq. said:
Do you know for sure they're winter tires and not all seasons? Because all seasons are still a far cry from winters but people will still say "They're for winter, see? All seasons!"



36mpg? How are you measuring? Because that sounds extremely hard to believe.
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I've seen inflated mpg ratings too. I realized, this often happens when miles are used with Canadian gallons, 4.54 liters/gallon compared to 3.78.
 
mkenyon said:
All Seasons do marginally better in snow than summer tires.
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It really depends on the all seasons. Contis are great in the snow, for example. Tire size and sidewall height is also a big factor. 16 inch with a decent sidewall will do infinitely better than low profile 19s. The narrower the better as well (to an extent, mainly talking about sports cars with super wide tires).
 
chifanpoe said:
Even with very good all season tire my wife's old X3 was never as good as our A3 or STi with snow tires when we lived in Spokane WA. We tried it one winter with them and it sat in the garage when the snow came. The next year studless snows went on.
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Sure it really just depends on how much snow you need to drive through. I live in St louis too, never had to bother with snow tires for the 3 or 4 days of snow we get here.

If you live further out in the country where they don't plow or treat the roads or a place that gets more snow of course get winter tires.
 
Kill3r7 said:
I have yet to see any of my neighbors make it up the hill w/snow on the ground in a RWD vehicle, even with winter tires on. Most everyone on my street owns a SUV or AWD car. Just to deal with the shitty winter conditions.
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Yep a rwd even with snow tires isn't going to get you up any kind of marginally steep hill if it's icy, at least in MN ;)
 
ZOONAMI said:
It really depends on the all seasons. Contis are great in the snow, for example. Tire size and sidewall height is also a big factor. 16 inch with a decent sidewall will do infinitely better than low profile 19s.
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Conti DSW and Michelin Pilot Sport AS3 are what I run here in the midwest now (we get less than 10 inch of snow a year around here) and they work ok.
 
ZOONAMI said:
Yep a rwd even with snow tires isn't going to get you up any kind of marginally steep hill if it's icy, at least in MN ;)
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Yeah, last winter I had to park in another street a few times because I couldn't make it up the road where I live. Happened with both a RWD BMW E46 and an FWD Volvo V40. My Subaru would climb up like nothing.
 
David Incorporated Esq. said:
36mpg? How are you measuring? Because that sounds extremely hard to believe.
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Dividing trip computer miles by gallons filled. The trip computer Average MPG display always indicates higher (like all Subarus, the trip computer lies). 36 was the average of a few in-state freeway trips in the late spring, and this was under ideal conditions - speed limit here is 55 or 60 on most freeways, I have a very light foot with the family in the car and no a/c or any gear strapped to the outside.

Under its normal usage (short trips around town, often with the engine cold) we're getting mid to high 20s - about what's expected. People who are claiming 30-something with mixed driving on Fuelly are the ones I'm interested in hearing from.
 
Flo_Evans said:
This is what I currently have on my BRZ. 1st winter with them so I hope I can keep it on the road :P
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I think you will be fine, great tires. If for some reason we did get any snow that lasted over a day, turn off your traction control and let your LSD do the work. That way it won't cut power on you.

A few years back when STL got the "record"(lol) 15 inch of snow, I had to drive from Edwardsville IL to the Airport to pick my wife up. I was in my R56s running 205/50/16 AS3 and made it just fine. They did not plow the chain of rocks bridge on 270 so that was a little bit of the mess, but it still crawled through ok. The airport cell phone lot was a lot of fun though ;)
 
David Incorporated Esq. said:
Do you know for sure they're winter tires and not all seasons? Because all seasons are still a far cry from winters but people will still say "They're for winter, see? All seasons!"
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My one neighbor is a car guy. So, I don't doubt him for a second. That said the hill in question is a 17% grade, although it is relatively short. If you come up from one of the side streets you are dealing with a longer but slightly less steep hill 14.5% grade.

EDIT: That said, winter tires are a must in harsh winter conditions. Regardless if your car is AWD, RWD or FWD.
 
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